Magnetic Grill Covers

[ToneDef]

Has there ever been any discussion on using magnetic grill covers on the higher end Sierra line? Seems like it would give a cleaner appearance without being costly. Thanks.

[GirgleMirt]

yup

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?5228-Sierra-Tower-Options-for-Grille&highlight=magnetic

[davef]

Our local cabinet vendor has some ideas as how to incorporate magnetic grilles with the Sierra Towers. There are a few issues with this so I wanted to get your thoughts...

1. With magnetic grilles, we would have to raise the retail price of the towers by $100 - $120 per pair.

2. The grille frame would have to be reinforced and this would require a cross brace which would be located directly between the tweeter and the upper bass woofer (with the grille installed). Most tower speakers have this cross brace in place but I have avoided it as it does compromise overall performance by causing high frequency reflections when the grille is on.

Thoughts?

[Kisakuku]

Our local cabinet vendor has some ideas as how to incorporate magnetic grilles with the Sierra Towers. There are a few issues with this so I wanted to get your thoughts...

1. With magnetic grilles, we would have to raise the retail price of the towers by $100 - $120 per pair.

2. The grille frame would have to be reinforced and this would require a cross brace which would be located directly between the tweeter and the upper bass woofer (with the grille installed). Most tower speakers have this cross brace in place but I have avoided it as it does compromise overall performance by causing high frequency reflections when the grille is on.

Thoughts?

I think most people want magnetic grilles solely to make the towers look "cleaner" with grilles removed. Wouldn't the option of ordering towers without the plastic inserts for grille mounting be a more cost-effective solution that also wouldn't compromise SQ?

[davef]

I think most people want magnetic grilles solely to make the towers look "cleaner" with grilles removed. Wouldn't the option of ordering towers without the plastic inserts for grille mounting be a more cost-effective solution that also wouldn't compromise SQ?

So in other words, you are saying no grilles at all? Ultimately, that is the most cost effective solution as well as providing the best performance but production runs must all be built the same way. The only reason we are able to provide the Sierra Towers at these incredibly low retail price points is to take advantage of volume discounting. We must either keep the grilles as is or go with magnetic grilles with a price increase and slight performance hit when using the grilles.

[Kisakuku]

So in other words, you are saying no grilles at all? Ultimately, that is the most cost effective solution as well as providing the best performance but production runs must all be built the same way. The only reason we are able to provide the Sierra Towers at these incredibly low retail price points is to take advantage of volume discounting. We must either keep the grilles as is or go with magnetic grilles with a price increase and slight performance hit when using the grilles.

Right, I didn't mean to suggest that you should have two cabinet versions for every finish. I was thinking more along the line of a simple reversible mod that the end-user or you could perform. Is it realistic to make the plastic inserts removable and offer sets of 6 bamboo plugs for each finish? For the finishes showing some (or all) bamboo "grain", the plugs wouldn't match exactly, but would still be less conspicuous than the black plastic inserts.

BTW, in the scenario you suggested would the Horizon magnetic grille also require a cross brace? It seems that there is no good location for it.

Personally, I think the issue is overblown. I really don't mind the look of my satin espresso towers with grilles off. I definitely don't think a price increase and even a slight SQ compromise is worth it.

[ToneDef]

As someone who is unable to search properly before even submitting this question, I would rather put the extra money towards the RAALs. To properly implement magnetic grills I feel you'd also need a second set of magnets on the back as cover holders, which would drive the price up even more...

[GirgleMirt]

As someone who is unable to search properly before even submitting this question, I would rather put the extra money towards the RAALs. To properly implement magnetic grills I feel you'd also need a second set of magnets on the back as cover holders, which would drive the price up even more...
? The idea is to place magnets on the front grill of course and a 2nd set of magnets beneath/inside the front baffle. So 100-120$ would cover all magnet costs!

I for one am a cheap bastard so if I had the 100-120$ option for magnetic grills, I'd opt out as for purely cosmetic reasons it would not be worth it for me; I'm more about price/performance ratio. Basically, only matters for people who don't use the grills, so knowing the % of people who use grills vs don't use it would be interesting.

[Blutarsky]

Maybe make the speakers with out grill holes, and provide magnetic tape for customers wanting to use the grills? Put a magnet in the grills, and magnetic tape on the speakers.

http://www.custom-magnets.com/magnetic_tape.htm

I am sure the company could make disc shaped peel off magnets.

http://www.custom-magnets.com/neodymium-magnets-c-107.html

Or these?

Blutarsky

[RicardoJoa]

My selah tempesta came in today. Aparently these have magnetic grills but unlie the salk you would actually see the bolt or the metal on the bafle. Since the bafle is black, they are still clean to look at.
With that said, i got an idea for Dave. What if you substitute the ruber fitting on the cabinet and fit it with bolts anodized with the same color of the cabinet? It will be not be something like the salk ones, but with the anodized colors, there will be less contrast with the cabinet. And i dont think a reinforcement on the grill is necesary since you already got six fitting already. Just a thought.

[davef]

Hi Ricardo,

In my experience, the proper way to secure grilles with magnets is to use a magnet inserted into the grille and another magnet inserted into the speaker cabinet. This greatly improves the magnetic attraction such that the grille will not sag downward over time.

The grille cross brace reinforcement would be required regardless of the number of magnets or the technique. Grille cloth on the grille frame is stretched such that the frame is under constant tension to pull inwards, especially towards the middle of the grille frame. Magnets (even using dual magnets) will not provide enough force to stop the grille from warping inwards over time, which is why a cross brace would be required.

With the current grille attachment method, inserting the grille pegs into the cabinet inserts (installing the grille), provides the necessary stabilization of the grille frame, equivalent to installing a cross brace. I do appreciate your suggestion but please keep in mind that my manufacturing experience with regards to loudspeakers is in the hundreds of thousands of units sold and I tend to think in those terms, even if the individual product will never come close to reaching those sales numbers. It is one of the reasons our products are so reliable over the long term.

[JustABrah]

we should do a poll to see how many people really use the grills? I don't.

Dave I think I got a plan for your next project after the Sierra-2 ;) get this..... Sierra Towers with a Rythmik sub!!!! I'll take a set of those :)

[Rimbaud]

As a point of comparison, my Dynaudio Contour 1.4 speakers have magnetic grills with no cross brace. However, the grill frames are aluminum and super-beefy.

I leave the grills on with these speakers, but I do much prefer the magnetic grills because they hold closer and more securely than any friction-fit grill I've had. It takes a fair amount of effort to pry them off! I also don't have to worry about rubber inserts starting to work loose over time, something else I've seen on past speakers.

[FirstReflect]

Well, one of Ascend's "problems" is that Dave prices his speakers based upon what they cost to produce, plus a small profit margin. This is in stark contrast to raw capitalism, which says that Dave ought to charge the highest price that he can before the reduced number of units sold causes the curve to inflect and start to decline ;)

There is zero question that Dave is "leaving money on the table" with the way he prices his speakers! Now, for the Ascend fans and community, this is fantastic! We get speakers of a quality that are unmatched at Ascend's prices. But the big downside is that there is a very large portion of the population who only look at the price tag, and decide, sound unheard, that Ascend's speakers MUST be no better than other speakers that have the same price tag, because, hey...capitalism. What company would charge LESS than they can get away with?!

We see the reciprocal all the time. We can all think of a certain cable maker or a cube speaker maker that charge outlandishly high prices for mediocre gear. But a huge portion of the population looks at those prices, and they figure those products MUST be good. Better than all of the less expensive competitors, in fact! Because, hey...capitalism. If everyone is charging the highest price that they possibly can, then the most expensive products MUST be the best, right?

ugh...

Anyways, my point is that Dave's commitment to selling all of Ascend's products for the lowest price possible, while fantastic for the small group of us that can recognize such value, is actually rather harmful in terms of the perception that is held by a very large and ignorant percentage of the population. We're all happy, because Dave is essentially making speakers just for us! But Ascend would likely actually sell more speakers - not just make more money, but actually sell a larger number of units - if the price tags were higher!

So my thinking is this: the SE series and the Sierra series are already established as phenomenal values. I'm sure that if someone really, really wants magnetic grills on some Sierra Tower or Sierra Horizon speakers, Dave could make that happen as a custom order. But to mass produce them and have them as a standard model in the lineup would mean a slight hit to the performance (when the magnetic grills are on), and an increase to the price tag, but not one large enough to attract a whole different audience of buyers. Just a price increase large enough to make the Sierra speakers slightly less affordable to Ascend's existing customer base, which is mostly people who recognize the insanely high value!

So, personally, I think the better move would be an entirely new series, with a whole new name, and a substantially higher price bracket. Go after the crowd that figures a higher price automatically means better performance. In truth, they could sound identical to the Sierra Towers. But if the price were 5x higher, and they had fancier cabinets (that included magnetic grills), they'd actually sell better than only bumping up the price of the Sierra series by a few hundred dollars.