Toying with the idea of an upgrade to Sierra 1's.

[rifmon]

Hello,

I have been an Ascend owner since 2001. I have three CBM 170 SE's in front, mated with a sealed subwoofer. It is a 400 watt Pinnacle Baby Boomer dual 8 inch driver sub and really does a fantastic job both in music and movies.

I am powering this with an Onkyo TX-SR602 85 watts per channel.

My rear are Ascend 200 non SE's . But they are down the basement in another system. Unfortunately, there is no space for them upstairs in my main area. Sort of a waste I know.:(

I have been toying with the idea of selling it all of and buying the Sierra 1's. I think on the used market, I would get enough money to break even.

I love my set up now but I am wondering if I would be more happy with 2 channel all the way with the added improved sound of the Sierra 1's. (I do not think I would be able to afford the Sierra 2's when they come out.) I am getting a new to me Technics SL 1710 turn table so maybe I'm just on a music kick these days!;)

Would the Sierra 1's be enough of an upgrade to justify all the effort it would take me to sell, pack it all up and ship, etc?

I'm undecided on this switch. I would be loosing a lot of bass and also surround capabilities. so..; better sounding speaker vs loss of bass and 5.1 surround... On the fence here and would love to hear anyone's input and opinions.

Thanks!

[noteworthy]

I'm new to quality HT, and just recently purchased a pair of 170 SE's, so take that into consideration.

Personally, I would rather have a better set of mains like the Sierra-1's. In fact I am preparing to upgrade my 170 SE's to the Sierra-1's shortly, even though I've had them for less than a month. Doing so means that I will delay purchase of a subwoofer for some time, but I don't mind.

If you plan at some point to buy a better subwoofer than the one you have, to compliment the Sierra-1's, I would say definitely get them.

The tone of your post indicates to me that you want to try them and already know what you want to do, but need a little encouragement. :)

[rifmon]

You are correct. I was sort of aware that my post / question had a "tone" to it. haha

It really is the tone of a fence sitter because for the foreseeable future my finances will remain the same which means I will not be getting a better subwoofer. So there will be some loss if I do this and also some gain in the quality and sound of the Sierra's

I have been reading about the higher grade Sierra 1 as well as the upcoming Sierra 2 and I know it puts it out of the realm for me.

I am wrestling with myself over this. I'm sure others can relate!

Thanks for the opinion and feedback and good luck with your upgrade!

[kinggimp82]

I have some Sierra's in my home theater setup. When I listen to music I always use a sub. If I get some time the next few days I will try running the Sierras full range minus the sub to see what it sounds like. I have a large room so it will be interesting to to see how the speakers sound full range. What size is your room? Also what type of music do you listen to? What's your home theater vs. music breakdown percentage wise? I'm around 65% music and 35% movies.

[noteworthy]

I kept wavering back and forth between the 170 SE's and getting a subwoofer sooner or the Sierra-1's and getting a subwoofer later, but seeing your post, rifmon, inspired me to get off the hamster wheel and go for the gusto. I called Ascend today and set up an upgrade to the Sierra-1's.

The Sierras will be in a 11'x11'x8' bedroom, so I think I can live without a sub for longer, considering the 39Hz in-room frequency response and potential room gain.

I hope you come to a decision that leaves you at peace.

[Dark Ranger]

Would the Sierra 1's be enough of an upgrade to justify all the effort it would take me to sell, pack it all up and ship, etc?

Quite honestly, you've posed a question that only you can answer. :)

I've got a pair of 170 SE in my bedroom. While I absolutely love them, I do prefer my Sierra-1s in the HT for both music and movies. To my ears, the Sierra-1s offer markedly improved performance and sound quality over my 170s. However, you may end up preferring a subwoofer, even though the Sierra-1 has extended low frequency response.

Rather than me wax poetical here, I'm going to suggest a research project. Read some Sierra-1 introductory posts by Dave (a.k.a. The Man) himself and you can gain additional understanding about "why" the Sierra-1 is "better" than the 170 beyond the obvious answer, "it just sounds better." :)

Introducing the Sierra (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?2593-Introducing-the-Sierra-!!!)

Sierra - The Cabinet (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?2597-Sierra-The-Cabinet)

Sierra - The Crossover (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?2598-Sierra-The-Crossover)

Sierra - Tweeter and Woofer (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?2600-Sierra-Tweeter-and-Woofer)

Sierra - Summary, Pricing and Shipping (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?2601-Sierra-Summary-Pricing-and-Shipping!)


One final comment: you mentioned acquiring the Sierra-1s on the used market. You might want to consider Ascend B-Stock as well. It's slightly cheaper than new, but you get the full Ascend warranty and peace of mind. That may not matter to you, but I wanted to mention it.

[rifmon]

I have some Sierra's in my home theater setup. When I listen to music I always use a sub. If I get some time the next few days I will try running the Sierras full range minus the sub to see what it sounds like. I have a large room so it will be interesting to to see how the speakers sound full range. What size is your room? Also what type of music do you listen to? What's your home theater vs. music breakdown percentage wise? I'm around 65% music and 35% movies.

I would love to hear what you think in running your Sierras without a sub.

My music listening is only on Saturday and Sunday mornings. As I mentioned earlier, I am getting back into vinyl. I found a couple of hundred mostly mint condition LPs by a dumpster on my Condo's "Dumpster Day" haha. One man's trash right?? So I carried them all home. Most of it is classical music. However, I listen to all types of music. Classic rock, vocalists, jazz, big band and classical.

As far as home theater (as defined by watching movies), I would say 10%. The rest of the time is either TV viewing or series on Net Flix

My room is large but the actual listening area is small. So the entire room is 18 x24 and the listening area is half of that.

I worked from home today and had CNN on. Being home alone, I got to raise the volume more than usual and the 170's with the sub really filled the entire 18x20 room up!

[rifmon]

Just getting to read all the replies now.
Thanks for your input. I was not aware of B Stock.

And yes, I do know I can only answer the question. You are correct. I did ask an unanswerable question. Sort of thinking out loud with others with like interests.

I will enjoy reading your links to the Sierras.

[noteworthy]

After I get mine and listen to various content I will give my impressions overall as well as compared to the 170 SE's. I can imagine that you want to figure this out asap so I will provide my immediate impression after a few hours of listening.

FYI the piano black finish is on sale now for $798. Even with the B-stock 12% discount off the regular price the B-stock piano blacks would be $790 ($898 minus 12%). For only $8 more I chose a new pair. The other finishes are not on sale so you will end up saving 12% going with B-stock.

[rifmon]

Thanks Noteworthy. It will be an interesting comparison in any case.

The piano black looks very nice.

I just looked on Ebay and there is exactly zero Ascends for sale. Just was curious on what they go for used.

The fact that there are none Is a testimony to Ascend speaker owner's satisfaction!

[Dark Ranger]

I found a pair at Audiogon (http://app.audiogon.com/listings/monitors-ascend-acoustics-sierra-1-piano-black-2013-01-12-speakers-85027-new-river-stage-az), although the list price include stands. Didn't see any others available there.

Oh, you had asked kinggimp82 for feedback without a sub. Definitely stay tuned for that, but I'll throw in my $0.02 here as well. :)

I run a hybrid setup for HT and music. For most music, I run my Sierra-1 pair full-range sans sub. My listening room is rather small (just over 1,000 cubic feet), and the monitors put out impressive bass for their size considering a single 5.25" woofer. I also run them with Q-Plugs (B) which has cut down on the "room boom" and provided slightly deeper extension as a bonus.

The quality of the bass is fantastic, which for me is more important than high output. I'm not a bass head. I prefer balanced, accurate, and realistic bass playback. One of my favorite demo albums to play is Patricia Barber's Modern Cool which has well-recorded acoustic bass action throughout. The texture is very realistic and detailed, rather than presenting exaggerated one-note boom for a "wow" factor. With the Q-Plugs inserted, the Sierra-1 bass extension is low enough for the majority of my music that I don't feel the need for my sub.

That said, I still do fire up the sub for music when I'm craving the deep stuff or when I want to play loudly. Technically speaking, the Sierra-1 is NOT a full-range speaker. Most folks do prefer a sub with them. :)

[Erik]

I say go for it! I use my Sierra's 100% for two channel music. The unique thing about the Sierra-1's is that there is an upgrade path to the NRT and the forth coming Sierra-2. I don't know of any other speaker that has this sort of upgrade path.

When I upgraded the stock Sierra-1's to NRT, and I hear the first Hi-Hat, I could not believe the improvement. I'm hoping the new Sierra-2 upgrade will have similar results.

I chose the Sierra-1 over the B&W CM5 which is a beautiful speaker, but retails for $1500. I can tell you that the pictures of the Sierra's on the website, do not do them justice. They are really nice and I have never thought twice choosing them over the CM5 (I have the espresso finish).

If you are music lover get rid of the 5.1 setup and go for a nice 2 channel setup. 4 years ago I started with a 5.1 HT in box setup from a Canadian manufacturer. But I found that I loved listening to music and HT became less important. So for the passed 2yrs I've focus on my 2 channel setup. My first purchase toward this end were the Sierra's. My only caveat is that I do run the Sierra's with a sub. I've tried without a sub and they are fine, but I prefer a bit more bass.

With the DIY upgrade to NRT and then to the Sierra two, it's like getting a new speaker every so often without all the hassle of packing/selling like you described before.

[rifmon]

Just a rough estimate, my room is 3000 cubic ft. But the seating area is at the half way point. So I am not sure how to properly quantify the cubic feet. Would it still be 3000 or 1500 cubic feet?

We sit approx 8 to 9 feet from the speakers and a 7 1/2 ft ceiling.

I may do more measurements later.

SO for most music it is ok without a sub. Like I said, there is gain and loss in my case if I need to sell off my sub.


I found a pair at Audiogon (http://app.audiogon.com/listings/monitors-ascend-acoustics-sierra-1-piano-black-2013-01-12-speakers-85027-new-river-stage-az), although the list price include stands. Didn't see any others available there.

Oh, you had asked kinggimp82 for feedback without a sub. Definitely stay tuned for that, but I'll throw in my $0.02 here as well. :)

I run a hybrid setup for HT and music. For most music, I run my Sierra-1 pair full-range sans sub. My listening room is rather small (just over 1,000 cubic feet), and the monitors put out impressive bass for their size considering a single 5.25" woofer. I also run them with Q-Plugs (B) which has cut down on the "room boom" and provided slightly deeper extension as a bonus.

The quality of the bass is fantastic, which for me is more important than high output. I'm not a bass head. I prefer balanced, accurate, and realistic bass playback. One of my favorite demo albums to play is Patricia Barber's Modern Cool which has well-recorded acoustic bass action throughout. The texture is very realistic and detailed, rather than presenting exaggerated one-note boom for a "wow" factor. With the Q-Plugs inserted, the Sierra-1 bass extension is low enough for the majority of my music that I don't feel the need for my sub.

That said, I still do fire up the sub for music when I'm craving the deep stuff or when I want to play loudly. Technically speaking, the Sierra-1 is NOT a full-range speaker. Most folks do prefer a sub with them. :)

[rifmon]

So would you consider the stock Sierra 1's equal to the high frequency range as the 170 SE's? I think they use the same tweeter right?

I do like the idea of the plugs to tame and make the bass more tuneful.

I say go for it! I use my Sierra's 100% for two channel music. The unique thing about the Sierra-1's is that there is an upgrade path to the NRT and the forth coming Sierra-2. I don't know of any other speaker that has this sort of upgrade path.

When I upgraded the stock Sierra-1's to NRT, and I hear the first Hi-Hat, I could not believe the improvement. I'm hoping the new Sierra-2 upgrade will have similar results.

I chose the Sierra-1 over the B&W CM5 which is a beautiful speaker, but retails for $1500. I can tell you that the pictures of the Sierra's on the website, do not do them justice. They are really nice and I have never thought twice choosing them over the CM5 (I have the espresso finish).

If you are music lover get rid of the 5.1 setup and go for a nice 2 channel setup. 4 years ago I started with a 5.1 HT in box setup from a Canadian manufacturer. But I found that I loved listening to music and HT became less important. So for the passed 2yrs I've focus on my 2 channel setup. My first purchase toward this end were the Sierra's. My only caveat is that I do run the Sierra's with a sub. I've tried without a sub and they are fine, but I prefer a bit more bass.

With the DIY upgrade to NRT and then to the Sierra two, it's like getting a new speaker every so often without all the hassle of packing/selling like you described before.

[rifmon]

Came close to making an offer to the seller but I was wondering if the lack of warranty is worth the savings of the purchase.
Looks like a great deal though. Still considering; Stands video shielding as well as the plugs.

[GirgleMirt]

No the sierra and 170s do not share the same tweeter. Same tweeter type, soft dome, but totally different tweetee.. Even the 340's tweets are different.

You are really going up a level with sierras, only loss maybe tad bit less neutral if same as vs 340se...

[Erik]

I would just add that the cross-overs and woofers are different as well

[rifmon]

Hello, I just wanted to give everyone an update; (drum roll.........)

I bought a set of Sierra 1's (used, in great condition) in Piano Black!:D

They should arrive today along with a set of TP-24 stands which was part of the deal.

Yes, I sold off EVERYTHING on Ebay and got a decent amount. Enough to easily buy the Sierra's and the stands with money to spare.

So,..... after I bought the speakers, I looked at my Onkyo TX-SR602 I figured, "why have a 7.1 AVR with 85 watts of power per channel when I can have a dedicated 2 channel amp with 100 watts per channel?" You know, new paint job, now you need window treatments and new rugs right? ;)

So, I got an ONKYO A-RV401 INTEGRATED AMP 100 WPC which can drive low impedance loads. Not the top of the line Onkyo integrated but it will do fine. Plus it has a remote. It's hard to find an integrated amp that has a remote and a remote is a must in my house.:p

AND, now I have a Technics SL-1710 turntable on it's way. So I am now firmly in the 2 channel stereo world!

This is the first overhaul in my audio set up in 12 years and it's a BIG one!

I got to say though, it was HARD to part with my beloved CBM 170 SE's and HTM 200 classics! They have carried me through many years of listening and times of transitions in my life good and bad. I will miss them.:(

Ascend's marvelous speakers were to buy as replacements when I needed to sell some pretty expensive speakers due to tough times. The CBM' 170's helped ease my sense of loss and I grew to love them. I am an Ascend fan for life!

Today, the speakers arrive. Next week, the Onkyo and the turntable arrive. Cannot wait to assemble it all but wait I must!

Thanks for all your feedback, opinions and info. Greatly appreciated!