Denon 4311 for Towers?

[jahjd2000]

I can purchase a brand new Denon 4311 from an authorized dealer for $1,349 (tax and shipping included). Should I?

I currently have a Denon 1909 which delivers 80 watts per channel. As for speakers, I haven't purchased them yet, but I plan to buy sierra towers and either a horizon or sierra-2 depending on size constraints.

I don't need all the fancy widgets, but what's drawn me to the 4311 is Audyssey XT32 and the dedicated amp delivering 140 watts per channel (trying to avoid having to buy another amp). It's a lot of money so I'm curious what others think.

In your opinion would the extra power and XT32 make that much of a difference?

[Kisakuku]

I have a 4311 driving a set of Sierra Towers and a Horizon and I'm very happy with it. I wish it had 192kHz DACs and gapless FLAC playback, but paying $600 more for a 4520 just to get those features did not make sense to me.

[Dark Ranger]

The AVR-4311CI has been one of Denon's most popular AVRs and with good reason. That is a great price for a brand new unit. XT32 is still one of the best RCS solutions available today.

This receiver will work great with your towers. In fact, there are several members here using a 4311 to power their Sierra Towers. The extra power could be helpful for peaks if you like to run things loudly. The value equation is something only you can solve. I think the 4311 is an excellent receiver, even more so at that price. I actually considered the 4311 myself along with a couple other models earlier this year, although ultimately I pursued a different route with full separates, something I've wanted to do for a while. You might check the return policy just in case you don't care for it. I'd be surprised if you don't, but it's worth knowing your options ahead of time (e.g. restocking fee, return expiration dates, etc.).

Otherwise, no reservations here, go for it. :)

[jahjd2000]

The AVR-4311CI has been one of Denon's most popular AVRs and with good reason. That is a great price for a brand new unit. XT32 is still one of the best RCS solutions available today.

This receiver will work great with your towers. In fact, there are several members here using a 4311 to power their Sierra Towers. The extra power could be helpful for peaks if you like to run things loudly. The value equation is something only you can solve. I think the 4311 is an excellent receiver, even more so at that price. I actually considered the 4311 myself along with a couple other models earlier this year, although ultimately I pursued a different route with full separates, something I've wanted to do for a while. You might check the return policy just in case you don't care for it. I'd be surprised if you don't, but it's worth knowing your options ahead of time (e.g. restocking fee, return expiration dates, etc.).

Otherwise, no reservations here, go for it. :)

Thanks for your reply! I'm leaning towards the 4311. It's one of those purchases I think you need to make in order to take full advantage of high end speakers and TV. Explaining it to my wife, I said it's like buying a luxury car (sierra towers) with a 4 cylinder engine (my current denon receiver).

Value wise I think it's there. I'm just a little cost sensitive coming off the heals of Christmas, a new car, etc...plus I still need to buy a new TV (looking at a passive 3d set) and my tower speakers.

[jahjd2000]

One other option I'm considering is getting the Denon 3313 and then a 3 channel Emotiva amp. It's about the same cost as the Denon 4311. The one thing I would give up is Audyssey xt32. On the plus size I get more watts to power my fronts.

[Kisakuku]

One other option I'm considering is getting the Denon 3313 and then a 3 channel Emotiva amp. It's about the same cost as the Denon 4311. The one thing I would give up is Audyssey xt32. On the plus size I get more watts to power my fronts.

4311 is perfectly capable of driving much less sensitive speakers than the Sierra Towers. You'll be giving up quite a bit for pretty much no gain.

[Dark Ranger]

I have to agree with Kisakuku here. Based on your original post, you desired the advanced functionality of MultEQ XT32 included with the 4311. The extra power output for headroom is also desired. By choosing a cheaper receiver and three-channel external amplifier, you're actually paying more and getting less than you originally wanted.

I strongly recommend you stay with the 4311 for MultEQ XT32, one of your original reasons for upgrading from the 1909. As far as power output is concerned, the amplifier section in the 4311 is one of the best for a receiver. It has a mono amp design unlike the 3313, plus it offers slightly lower distortion figures, higher current delivery, and the ability to drive lower impedance speakers (e.g. 4 ohm).

As far as watts go, most listening will use less than 10 watts per channel. Here's an example. Let's say you want an average volume of 80 dB at the listening position which is 13.12 feet away (i.e. 4 meters for easy numbers). According to the inverse square law, SPL will drop by 6 dB each time you double the distance. Since we're 4 meters away from the loudspeakers, that's a reduction of 6 dB (going from 1 to 2 meters), and then another reduction of 6 dB (going from 2 to 4 meters) for a total of 12 dB less output at 4 meters than at 1 meter.

So for ~80 dB average at the listening position 4 meters away, you'll need about 1 watt per channel (for reference, that gives you about 92 dB at 1 meter / 3.281 feet).

For an average of 90 dB at the listening position (which is moderately loud), you'll need just over 8 watts per channel (for reference, that gives you about 102 dB at 1 meter / 3.281 feet).

The Denon should be able to give you about 101 dB peaks at 4 meters (which is really loud in my opinion). That's over 13 feet away. At one meter (3.281 feet), you'll be getting peaks of ~113 dB. This is VERY loud!


I write this to show you that wattage and power output is more complicated than at first blush. There is more involved here, but this is a very basic overview of how SPL and wattage interrelate with each other. Then you have dynamic peaks to worry about which can consume a LOT of power. In other words, your Denon will be fine for normal listening as long as you don't attempt any crazy things like trying to hear your stereo a block down the street. :)

My personal recommendation is to go forward with the 4311. You can get a high-quality receiver with advanced room correction and a capable amplifier section. It will also be a great foundation to build on. If in the future you want to add an external amplifier, you can do that without giving up anything. The Denon has pre-outs for external amps, so that will work fine. You won't have to give up MultEQ XT32 just to have more power. I've read about many folks who started with a 4311, and then bought an external amplifier later. This gives you the best of both worlds--features galore from the AVR, and plenty of power from an external amplifier.

Good luck! :)

[jahjd2000]

Thanks for talking me off the ledge, guys. You're right, the extra power would be a marginal benefit (if even discernable) . I have a moderate size living room (probably 15x15 with vaulted ceilings and open to dining room), so I don't need a ton of volume. Heck my current Denon and Def Tech speakers fill out the space more than sufficiently.

Alright, I'm sold. 4311 it is. No more vacillating between the two. Now I can move on to my next conundrum: to RAAL or not to RAAL? I need to make a trip up to Ascend soon to audition the NRT and RAAL tweeters. I'm just in San Diego so it's a short drive.

By the way, the 4311 is in short supply since it's discontinued. If anyone is in the market for one PM me. I found two authorized dealers with inventory selling at a nice price point (~$1,300).

[Dark Ranger]

Now I can move on to my next conundrum: to RAAL or not to RAAL? I need to make a trip up to Ascend soon to audition the NRT and RAAL tweeters. I'm just in San Diego so it's a short drive.

Excellent. I definitely recommend you do the evaluation. You're one of the lucky few that can actually listen to these speakers before buying them.

I'd be interested to hear which you end up choosing. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either.

[jahjd2000]

Excellent. I definitely recommend you do the evaluation. You're one of the lucky few that can actually listen to these speakers before buying them.

I'd be interested to hear which you end up choosing. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either.

I'll definitely post my thoughts after the audition. For me, it'll be one of the following set ups:

1) Sierra Towers and Horizon with RAAL
2) Sierra Towers and Horizon with NRT
3) Sierra Towers (RaaL) and Sierra-2 - may come down to WAF for the Horizon.

I'm 80/20 HT to music so I'm thinking option #2 might be the best value. I'm giddy thinking about the new set up. Ascend speakers, Denon 4311, with my Epik Empire...audio bliss awaits.

[Kisakuku]

I'll definitely post my thoughts after the audition. For me, it'll be one of the following set ups:

1) Sierra Towers and Horizon with RAAL
2) Sierra Towers and Horizon with NRT
3) Sierra Towers (RaaL) and Sierra-2 - may come down to WAF for the Horizon.

I'm 80/20 HT to music so I'm thinking option #2 might be the best value. I'm giddy thinking about the new set up. Ascend speakers, Denon 4311, with my Epik Empire...audio bliss awaits.

I think it's been the experience of many around here that once you have your new setup, you will be listening to a lot more music. I know I've gone from listening to Pandora in the background and an occasional CD to streaming hundreds of gigabytes of FLACs in a matter of months. No guarantees, but something to consider.

Also, hang out around here enough and it's only a matter of time until you'll be getting a Rythmik F15HP or FV15HP...

[jahjd2000]

Also, hang out around here enough and it's only a matter of time until you'll be getting a Rythmik F15HP or FV15HP...

Must. Resist. Urge.

I actually have a capable sub, the Epik Empire. The two 15" woofers fill my space quite nicely. But, due to its size, the only place for it is next to my sofa. Aside from the obvious localization for the person sitting right next to it, it actually works really well. I attached a picture of it, which is also on the Epik site (they pulled it from a forum).

Now that's the logical part of me talking. The nonsensical me says, "hey, you have a .2 capable receiver now, maybe you should buy two smaller footprint subs and flank your media center". I don't have a lot of real estate upfront so it would have to be two smaller subs. To the right a large sub would get close to the fireplace (especially after the towers are in place). To the left, there's a hallway and I don't want to obstruct the pathway.

If I add two subs to the already extensive list, I'm afraid I'll be sleeping outside with the dog. So yeah, stop poisoning my mind :).

[Gov]

Little late to the party, but I am driving my sierra towers with a 4311. XT32 is awesome! I have no trouble driving these speakers to insane levels with the 4311. My 4311 never strains or gets too hot. I run my speakers "small" and cross at 80hz to my Epik Phoenix. You are gonna be happy!

[jahjd2000]

Little late to the party, but I am driving my sierra towers with a 4311. XT32 is awesome! I have no trouble driving these speakers to insane levels with the 4311. My 4311 never strains or gets too hot. I run my speakers "small" and cross at 80hz to my Epik Phoenix. You are gonna be happy!

Never too late. Thanks for the feedback.

I just placed my order. Really excited about this AVR. Your set up will be almost identical to mine, except we have cousin subs (Phoenix and Empire).

[jahjd2000]

I received the 4311 last night. Can't wait to set it up this weekend and get it dialed in. Will let you know my thoughts on the new tuning capabilities, xt32, and if there's a discernible difference in volume/tonality with upgraded watts/amp. I've yet to hear an distortion from my current set up so I doubt the extra wattage will make a big difference, but the overhead is certainly nice.

[jahjd2000]

I set up the 4311 tonight and it appears I may have a faulty unit. The primary sub out doesn't work. The second sub out works, but not the first. I tried different cables and even a second sub. I purchased brand new from an authorized dealer so I'm not worried about the return.

Aside from not having a sub, I've been listening to my 5.0 set up trying to compare it to my lessor Denon 1909. Not having a sub is throwing me off; feels like comparing apples and oranges. I guess the jury is still out for now...will try some music later on.

[jahjd2000]

While I've been waiting for my new 4311 to arrive (ETA tomorrow), I've been listening to a lot of 2 channel music on the defective 4311 unit. Right now I can either listen to it in 5.0 mode with Audyssey or in 5.1 mode without Audyssey. So I've been doing a lot of stereo listening...

My impression of XT32 so far: I really like it. I'm not the best orator when it comes to describing audio characteristics, but the music really comes alive with XT32. It's brighter, but in a good way. It's like there's more of a top end and the mids are less recessed. Keep in mind, I'm not running Ascend speakers yet, still using my def techs. I used to toggle Audyssey on/off with my old Denon 1909 but never really could hear much of a difference. Now it's night and day.

Can't wait to get the new unit and apply the filtering to my sub.