Amplifier suggestion for Sierra Tower RAAL tweeter

[hnguyen]

Hi,
I just ordered a pair of Sierra Towers with RAAL tweeter to upgrade from my Sierra-1 NrT tweeter speakers. I have not received the Sierra Towers yet, but I hope that I've made a right choice (spending so much saliva to convince my beautiful wife since it is a quite expensive item). Anyway, I plan to use these towers as L & R speakers and Sierra-1 NrT tweeter as center. I am looking for suggestion of an amplifier to bring out the best of these towers. My listening habit is 50% music (jaz, soft rock...) and 50% movie (action and some comedy).

My system:
Receiver: Anthem MRX500
Amplifier: Adcom GFA-7500
BluRay player: Oppo 93
L&R Speaker: Sierra Towers with RAAL tweeter
Center: Sierra-1 NrT bookshelf
Surround: Emotiva ERD-1 speakers
Subwoofer: Rythmik 12 in Signature Edition Servo

Question: do I get additional benefits if I upgrade my amplifier? I am thinking of Anthem MCA50 or McIntosch MC7205?

Thank you very much in advance. :D

[Dark Ranger]

Hi hnguyen,

You've got a nice system there. In all honesty, the Adcom is more than sufficient to drive your Towers and sound excellent while doing so. My suggestion would be to wait until you hear the Towers on the Adcom, and then make the decision.

If you've just got a bad case of upgrade-itis (it's incurable ;)), then I can understand that. In that case, I'd probably give the nod to the Anthem.

[billy p]

Hi,
I just ordered a pair of Sierra Towers with RAAL tweeter to upgrade from my Sierra-1 NrT tweeter speakers. I have not received the Sierra Towers yet, but I hope that I've made a right choice (spending so much saliva to convince my beautiful wife since it is a quite expensive item). Anyway, I plan to use these towers as L & R speakers and Sierra-1 NrT tweeter as center. I am looking for suggestion of an amplifier to bring out the best of these towers. My listening habit is 50% music (jaz, soft rock...) and 50% movie (action and some comedy).

My system:
Receiver: Anthem MRX500
Amplifier: Adcom GFA-7500
BluRay player: Oppo 93
L&R Speaker: Sierra Towers with RAAL tweeter
Center: Sierra-1 NrT bookshelf
Surround: Emotiva ERD-1 speakers
Subwoofer: Rythmik 12 in Signature Edition Servo

Question: do I get additional benefits if I upgrade my amplifier? I am thinking of Anthem MCA50 or McIntosch MC7205?

Thank you very much in advance. :D

If your happy how your NrT 1's sounded why look to change? The towers I belive are more efficient so your current set up should more than suffice...IMO.:)

[hnguyen]

Dark Ranger, thank for for your advice.

Billy p, yes, I like my Sierra-1 NrT very much. However, I know there is room for improvement. Everyone in this forum is vow for Tower, so I placed an order for it. Hopefully, it will bring my audio system up a knot or two. Yes, I like and am happy with my Sierra-1 that is why I am a returned customer.

[billy p]

Billy p, yes, I like my Sierra-1 NrT very much. However, I know there is room for improvement. Everyone in this forum is vow for Tower, so I placed an order for it. Hopefully, it will bring my audio system up a knot or two. Yes, I like and am happy with my Sierra-1 that is why I am a returned customer.I see how my post may have being misinterpreted sorry about that....:o. The change I was referring to was in replacing your pre/pro setup...I wasn't questioning your speaker decision.:)

I know the Towers...will bring you the change your looking for....I recently upgraded from the NrT 1's myself.

Btw how do you like Anthems RC (ARC) with your Sierra 1's...I currently have a Yamaha avr but I'm considering the move to the MRX 300 or a XT32 unit like a Denon 43xx...but we can all agree the best way to improve ones sound is to move towards better speakers...and the Towers IMO are just that...:D.

Re: Bill

[avsnoob10]

I see how my post may have being misinterpreted sorry about that....:o. The change I was referring to was in replacing your pre/pro setup...I wasn't questioning your speaker decision.:)

I know the Towers...will bring you the change your looking for....I recently upgraded from the NrT 1's myself.

Btw how do you like Anthems RC (ARC) with your Sierra 1's...I currently have a Yamaha avr but I'm considering the move to the MRX 300 or a XT32 unit like a Denon 43xx...but we can all agree the best way to improve ones sound is to move towards better speakers...and the Towers IMO are just that...:D.

Re: Bill

Billy,
I have Denon 4311, came from Pioneer SC-25 for my old pair of B&W Matrix 803 Series II and it was a worthwhile upgrade. I know there are ppl who hate EQ for 2-channel but I will admit integrating sub into my 2-ch setup would have not been easier. I have my pair of Sierra Towers with RAAL should be arriving in week or two so I can provide more feedback then.

[billy p]

Billy,
I have Denon 4311, came from Pioneer SC-25 for my old pair of B&W Matrix 803 Series II and it was a worthwhile upgrade. I know there are ppl who hates EQ for 2-channel but I will admit integrating sub into my 2-ch setup would have not been easier. I have my pair of Sierra Towers with RAAL should be arriving in week or two so I can provide more feedback then.

I seldom use 2.0 direct for music....I always apply some RC and 2.1 mode. So...yeah... sharing your thoughts on this matter would be appreicated...:)

Thanks...Bill

[SteveR]

I will be buying the RAAL towers in a couple of months along with the RAAL Horizion center. I am starting over will all my electronics as we are currently selling our home and the new buyer wants all the current home theater equipment so I will be starting at ground zero with everything.

I have read here and at AVS until my eyes have bled and I am still not sure if I want to just go with a high level AVR or with separates. I can't find a real test evaluation to justify separates but emotionally they just seem to make more sense...separate amp in a separate box with its own unique power supply instead of all stuffed in the same box.

My budget is around $3000 for either option and my room is 15X18X10 feet so around 2700 ft cubed....moderate sized dedicated Media/HT room.

[hnguyen]

I see how my post may have being misinterpreted sorry about that....:o. The change I was referring to was in replacing your pre/pro setup...I wasn't questioning your speaker decision.:)

I know the Towers...will bring you the change your looking for....I recently upgraded from the NrT 1's myself.

Btw how do you like Anthems RC (ARC) with your Sierra 1's...I currently have a Yamaha avr but I'm considering the move to the MRX 300 or a XT32 unit like a Denon 43xx...but we can all agree the best way to improve ones sound is to move towards better speakers...and the Towers IMO are just that...:D.

Re: Bill

Hi Bill,
I don't have a room design for home theater and don't have any special room treatment. Therefore, I prefer to use some form of room correction software provided by a receiver to overcome some of the room problems.
I have Denon 2809 with Audyssey MultiEQ XT before moving to Anthem MRX 500 with Anthem Room Correction. I prefer Anthem RC over Audyssey EQ XT. It makes Sierra-1 NrT sound clearer and has better image. I have not use Audyssey XT32, but I heard that it is pretty good.

[sourbeef]

I am getting the towers with RAAL ribbon too. I currently have an AVR in my system - Onkyo TX-SR705. While I think it would be enough to power these speakers, and eventually the Horizon center, plus surrounds, and a powered subwoofer, I am still leaning towards getting a new AVR....looking into the Denon 4520....thoughts and comments please.;)

[Kisakuku]

I am getting the towers with RAAL ribbon too. I currently have an AVR in my system - Onkyo TX-SR705. While I think it would be enough to power these speakers, and eventually the Horizon center, plus surrounds, and a powered subwoofer, I am still leaning towards getting a new AVR....looking into the Denon 4520....thoughts and comments please.;)

4311 is definitely a better value.

[Gov]

4311 is definitely a better value.

yep ^^^

[raggededge]

I have the NrT Towers & Custom Horizon, running them off of an Anthem MRX-300 and they sound fantastic. ARC does a wonderful job of room correction.

[sourbeef]

well, I ordered the Denon 4520CI and got a nice discount on it through a member at the AVS forums. I don't know if I should mention his name here but if someone wants to know PM me.

[billy p]

I have the NrT Towers & Custom Horizon, running them off of an Anthem MRX-300 and they sound fantastic. ARC does a wonderful job of room correction.

Yeah that is the unit I have my eye on....its overall dimemsions are better fit for the space within my wall unit...my current rxv1800 is a much larger unit but I am more curious how ARC will sound over my current YPAO.

Thanks gents...:)

[jahjd2000]

I'm in a similar situation; looking to upgrade my receiver. Currently have a Denon 1910.

Would the Denon 4311 be overkill if I only plan to run a 5.1 set up? I wouldn't need the added 4 channels or the second sub out. Just wondering if there are other benefits or if I'd be better off with a lessor equipped Denon AVR.

[billy p]

Well I picked up the MRX300 today....I haven't run ARC or taken any measurments...I will do in due time when my usb/serial adapter arrives ...I'm just listening to some CD but I have to say the mrx300 has less rated power vs my last receivers(yammy rxv1800 & denon 3805) but sounds every bit as good...ARC should be the icing on the cake...:)

As for too much power it comes in handy, needed or not? Just like you can't have too much sub...:D

My 2 cents...:)

[JustABrah]

Are amps really worth it? I might buy a NAD T 757, NAD T 777 or Anthem 700 to upgrade the buggy HK 254, depending how my funds look in a few months after I'm done buying a tower or Sierra-1 NrT and the horizon center, but would an amp really do anything that noticeable?

[JustaSheep]

Generally, no. What you need in an amp/preamp/avr is enough power per channel to drive your speakers (all of them), the codecs you want/need, and features like 5-9.1 surround, 3d video, multiple rooms, etc., that you plan to use. Power is power, though.

[Dark Ranger]

Are amps really worth it? I might buy a NAD T 757, NAD T 777 or Anthem 700 to upgrade the buggy HK 254, depending how my funds look in a few months after I'm done buying a tower or Sierra-1 NrT and the horizon center, but would an amp really do anything that noticeable?

It really depends on the goal and what kind of AVR one has. There is less of a difference if one goes from a flagship AVR (pick your brand) to an external amp, than if one goes from an entry level AVR to an amp.

I upgraded to an external amplifier early last year. In my case, I had been using an entry-level Denon I bought on sale 6 years ago. I did not have much discretionary income and it was all I could afford. The AVR was very anemic and complained when driving 7 channel loads at moderate volumes. With an external amp, it was night and day difference for me because I started at the bottom. ;)

One reason to go with an external amp is to power difficult to drive loudspeakers. For example, many electrostatics and planars have a nominal load of 4 ohms and/or below average sensitivity. Some may even dip down to 3 or 2 ohms. Other loudspeakers may have difficult electrical phase loads or impedance curves. The majority of AVRs can't handle these complex loads at moderate volumes, let alone cranking it. In contrast, most external amplifiers can easily power 4 ohm loads. They have gobs of current capacity thanks to huge toroidal transformers and capacitor banks. Most AVRs weigh between 20 and 40 pounds. I've seen amplifiers weighing hundreds of pounds, although most range between 30 and 90.

One thing I love about Dave's speakers is that they can be driven very well by mid-fi receivers. You don't have to have a flagship AVR or a high-powered amp. However, from experience, I can tell you that the Ascends sound fantastic on a quality amplifier. If your goal is to get into separates (like mine was), then an amp is part of that journey. But if you've got a competent AVR, there's no need to worry because your Ascends will sound great. :)

[Rob from NJ]

Currently powering my Ascend Sierra Towers and Horizon (RAALs) with a Denon 4311. The 4311 powers my speakers perfectly. Absolutely no complaints. I tend to mainly watch movies, however, occasionally listen to music.

I'm starting to get the itch to research/purchase a 2 channel external amplifier for my Towers to determine if I can get even better performance when listening to music (usually via stereo 2.1). My budget is most likely approximately $1K and under. Started to research Emotiva and Parasound (The Halo brand looks out of my price range).

Does anyone have experience powering the Towers with an Emotiva amplifier? Parasound amplifier? If yes, any information on performance is appreciated.

Also, any recommendations for amplifier brands and models that I should look into would be great.

[Dark Ranger]

Does anyone have experience powering the Towers with an Emotiva amplifier? Parasound amplifier? If yes, any information on performance is appreciated.

I don't have the Towers, but I do have a Horizon being powered by an Emotiva amp. In fact, I own 3 Emotiva amps that power my Ascend HT and bedroom setup and can recommend them. Great value and performance. I can't afford McIntosh and Krell, but Emotiva gets me close for far less coin. :)

Coming from a 6+ year old entry-level Denon AVR, the Emotiva amps were like night and day. You've got a much more capable AVR, so the difference may not be as much. However, I am completely satisfied with the Emotiva amplifiers. They do have a 30-day return policy, so you don't have to keep it if you don't like it.


Also, any recommendations for amplifier brands and models that I should look into would be great.

I've heard good things about Wyred 4 Sound (http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/category/74030/117839/17872). There are lots of great amps out there, and if you're looking for higher-end gear on the cheap, check out the used market.

[Rob from NJ]

I don't have the Towers, but I do have a Horizon being powered by an Emotiva amp. In fact, I own 3 Emotiva amps that power my Ascend HT and bedroom setup and can recommend them. Great value and performance. I can't afford McIntosh and Krell, but Emotiva gets me close for far less coin. :)

Coming from a 6+ year old entry-level Denon AVR, the Emotiva amps were like night and day. You've got a much more capable AVR, so the difference may not be as much. However, I am completely satisfied with the Emotiva amplifiers. They do have a 30-day return policy, so you don't have to keep it if you don't like it.



I've heard good things about Wyred 4 Sound (http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/category/74030/117839/17872). There are lots of great amps out there, and if you're looking for higher-end gear on the cheap, check out the used market.

Jacob, Thanks for the feedback on Emotiva. Emotiva amps are in my price range. I'll also check out wyred 4 sound.

[Gov]

Currently powering my Ascend Sierra Towers and Horizon (RAALs) with a Denon 4311. The 4311 powers my speakers perfectly. Absolutely no complaints. I tend to mainly watch movies, however, occasionally listen to music.

I'm starting to get the itch to research/purchase a 2 channel external amplifier for my Towers to determine if I can get even better performance when listening to music (usually via stereo 2.1). My budget is most likely approximately $1K and under. Started to research Emotiva and Parasound (The Halo brand looks out of my price range).

Does anyone have experience powering the Towers with an Emotiva amplifier? Parasound amplifier? If yes, any information on performance is appreciated.

Also, any recommendations for amplifier brands and models that I should look into would be great.

Save your money, the 4311 is more than enough for any Ascend speaker.

[Rob from NJ]

Save your money, the 4311 is more than enough for any Ascend speaker.

Agreed, the 4311 drive my towers/Horizon/Surrounds fine. I'm curious about adding power to my towers and the affects of improving stereo music. Will I be able to tell the difference and is there sound improvement with the use of a power amplifier/additional power? Have you used an amplifier and not achieved results different than the 4311?

[Kisakuku]

Agreed, the 4311 drive my towers/Horizon/Surrounds fine. I'm curious about adding power to my towers and the affects of improving stereo music. Will I be able to tell the difference and is there sound improvement with the use of a power amplifier/additional power? Have you used an amplifier and not achieved results different than the 4311?

Lots of posts about this in the AVS 4311 thread, but this one (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1274153/the-official-denon-avr-4311ci-avr-a100-thread-no-price-talk/13050#post_21344290) pretty much sums it up. "For those maxing out internal amps, Emo XPA and UPA amps on sale are excellent bargains, but only if you need the power." The Sierra Towers have a relatively high sensitivity, so unless you're driving them to insane levels, there won't be a difference.

[Rob from NJ]

Lots of posts about this in the AVS 4311 thread, but this one (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1274153/the-official-denon-avr-4311ci-avr-a100-thread-no-price-talk/13050#post_21344290) pretty much sums it up. "For those maxing out internal amps, Emo XPA and UPA amps on sale are excellent bargains, but only if you need the power." The Sierra Towers have a relatively high sensitivity, so unless you're driving them to insane levels, there won't be a difference.

To validate your point, read an interesting 6 months old thread on Audioholics about this very same topic. The resident experts agreed the Denon 4311CI is plenty powerful enough to drive towers with similar sensitivity to the Ascend Sierras without any performance and/or sound quality issues with the overall system. Reasons for an external amp provided was more headroom - huge room size, playing extremely loud volume, lack of sub use. Quality of sound was not a reason to purchase an amp.

Even though my room is large, my listening volume is normal for both music and movies, and I have never had an issue of hearing any strains with the Sierra Towers. So based upon this information, I will use my money for different audio/video projects. I'm interested in eventually either converting my 5.1 system to a 7.2 system and/or upgrading my current surrounds and adding a second sub. Thanks for the advice from Gov and you about forgoing an amplifier for now.

[Kisakuku]

Glad we agree and great point about higher power requirements of systems lacking an amplified subwoofer. External amps are a great tool if used to achieve specific goals rather than to get a placebo SQ improvement. I would happily get one if I ever go to a 11.1/11.2 setup with my 4311 or start hosting indoor raves.

[Gov]

Agreed, the 4311 drive my towers/Horizon/Surrounds fine. I'm curious about adding power to my towers and the affects of improving stereo music. Will I be able to tell the difference and is there sound improvement with the use of a power amplifier/additional power? Have you used an amplifier and not achieved results different than the 4311?

For the record, I tried an Emotiiva amplifier on my old Pioneer VSX-1014TX with my old Ascend 340SE set up. While I liked the Emotiva, it made no difference at all so I sold it off. The Pioneer was a pretty beefy unit, but the 4311 is even beefier, so I have not been tempted to try another amplifer with the towers which are an easy load just as the 340SE's were.

[Rob from NJ]

For the record, I tried an Emotiiva amplifier on my old Pioneer VSX-1014TX with my old Ascend 340SE set up. While I liked the Emotiva, it made no difference at all so I sold it off. The Pioneer was a pretty beefy unit, but the 4311 is even beefier, so I have not been tempted to try another amplifer with the towers which are an easy load just as the 340SE's were.

Gov, Thanks. Will save my money and starting to think about upgrading my system to 7.1 or 7.2. Maybe the Sierra 2 when released will be the answer.

[Dark Ranger]

I think you made a good call, Rob.

The 4311 is an excellent AVR with a more robust amplifier topology/design than the majority of other receivers. For those coming from lesser AVRs, there can be a noticeable difference moving to an amp. For those with top-end AVRs, the difference is minimal, if any. If you don't need the extra headroom, your Denon will treat the Ascends with the finesse and control they deserve.

Happy listening. :)

[Rob from NJ]

I think you made a good call, Rob.

The 4311 is an excellent AVR with a more robust amplifier topology/design than the majority of other receivers. For those coming from lesser AVRs, there can be a noticeable difference moving to an amp. For those with top-end AVRs, the difference is minimal, if any. If you don't need the extra headroom, your Denon will treat the Ascends with the finesse and control they deserve.

Happy listening. :)

Jacob, Thanks, I'm definitely at peace with this decision, or should I say non-decision. :cool: My initial research indicated a good Amplifier would be pretty pricey. I can now plan for utilizing my funds for other purposes to improve my system. My HT system is 9 months old and I would like to continue to invest in the system with an upgrade(s) this year. My focus will be on the surrounds to start.

[SteveR]

I realize this is an old thread but thought I would ask my question here rather than start a new thread.

I am purchasing a 9.1 speaker system from Ascend. It will consist of Tower fronts with Horizon center--all with RAAL ribbons. The side, rear and front wide surrounds will be 170SEs. I will also have the Rythmic 12 sub.

The room is yet to be completed but will be 18X15X10 feet in a more or less dedicated room...media/HT and occasional entertainment room.

My listening/viewing style will be 60-70% music and 30-40% HT. Thus the reason for the RAALs.

I will bu using an Integra 80.3 pre/pro but have not yet decided on an amp.

My choices are so far:
Integra DTA-701 amp 150 watts/channel (two channels driven) THX Ultra2 certified.
Emotiva XPA-5...two of them for 10 channels....9 of which will be used.
Outlaw 7700 200 watt/channel amp...7 channels Plus two M2000 monoblocks at 200 watts/ channel.

I would rather do the Integra amp for space and weight reasons but am concerned I will not have enough headroom. I don't listen to stuff above reference...my ears would not take it with my tinnitis.

I know the other amps will be more than enough but the cost, space and weight are considerations as I have only room for one audio rack.

Suggestions?

[Dark Ranger]

Hi SteveR,

In my honest opinion, any of those you listed will be more than adequate for reference levels with headroom to spare. How far away do you sit from the front speakers?

If you want to stay with Integra and match your pre/pro, the DTA-70.1 is THX Ultra2 certified so we know it's capable. Based on some quick research, it's also the least powerful amp there and the power supply section has a lot of work to do (9 channels). The good news is that your speakers are fairly efficient which eases the load on the amp. For real-world usage at or below reference levels, I don't think you'll have any problem with the Integra running out of gas.

The Emotiva and Outlaw amps are both rated with all channels driven. Technically, these amps are more powerful than the Integra and I'm talking about more than just watts here. Your proposed arrangement also uses two or three amplifiers total compared to the one Integra. With multiple amps, you can distribute the load as needed instead of loading only one amp. With either the Emotiva or Outlaw amps, I seriously doubt you'll ever need more power based on your listening preferences and room size.

If you want to streamline your system, one amp makes the most sense. Both Outlaw and Emotiva offer a 30-day trial period, so you can send back the amp(s) if you're not satisfied. I'm not sure about Integra as I've never tried or owned one of their products.

I don't believe more powerful amplifiers are necessary based on your listening preferences and room size. :)

[SteveR]

Jacob,
Thanks for the reply.

The room set will have me about 11-12 back from the front speakers.

I am unsure of the testing conditions for the THX certification so I don't know if it really means it will drive all 9 speakers at reference without chocking. I would rather go with the 70.1 Integra just from a simplicity standpoint but fear it does not have the guts to really handle the dynamics of home theater.

Still, it is cheaper than the three Outlaw amps (my first choice for a powerful system) but this option is less hassle than the Emotiva amps due to their size and weight. I have one Mid Atlantic rack to hold a bunch of stuff for the HT and the whole house audio and video system. So space is a consideration as is cooling. The rack is to house the following:
Oppo 103 player
Control 4 controller
Control 4 audio amps for 9 zones (2 amps)
Control 4 router for the whole house
Integra 80.3 Pre/pro
HT amplifier(s)
Possible Pioneer Laserdisk player (I know...old school but very cool and will upscale fairly well).
Cooling fans

All this will stuff the rack so smaller but powerful would be better.
...
....still weighing my options