Bad driver or bad crossover?

[astrodog]

I recently purchased a set of used sierra-1s that are in excellent condition. Unfortunately, one of the speakers is playing sound only through the tweeter. The woofer has no sound coming out of it at all and even the tweeters sound a bit faint. My plans were to upgrade to nrt tweeters anyway, and since I know that the new tweeters come with new crossovers, i'm hoping this will fix this problem. Thing is, i'm not sure if it's the crossover causing this in the first place. Is there a way to find out which it is?

[astrodog]

Okay, I just took out the one of the woofers on the "bad" speaker and to my surprise they soldered the wires to the binding joints AND it's even burnt?! From the instructional videos on how to install the nrt tweeter, those wires should be able to disconnect but instead I found that they're soldered... I examined the other speaker and it's the same... What gives?

And also, the insulation is different from the one in the video. Instead of the white cotton looking stuff, it's a bunch of yellow, hairlike strands "sealed" in a black thread material but it doesn't look like they sealed it that well, so all the yellow, hairlike strands are covering the crossover. Forgive my ignorance because I know little about electronics but would this cause a short?

[Dark Ranger]

Sorry to hear about the troubles, especially following a recent purchase. A couple of things come to mind here:

1) Do you see a serial number and/or Ascend Acoustics sticker on the back? This would help verify they are genuine Sierras.

2) Based on your description of the interior condition, it sounds like a previous owner may have done some "DIY" mods and who knows what else. :(

If you're not in a big rush, stick around here and see if anyone else chimes in. Otherwise, I'd recommend calling or e-mailing Ascend. Dave should be able to at least verify the serial number.

You're planning to upgrade to the NrT kit anyway, but hopefully the woofer is not damaged either.


Here is the link (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/support/contactus.html) for contact info.

[astrodog]

1) Both the "Designed, Engineered and Assembled in USA" and serial stickers are on back of both speakers. I'm pretty certain that they're legitimate speakers. The guy who sold them is a member on Audiogon and he has 100% positive feedback. I'm sure he wouldn't sell fakes but then again, I am in this predicament....

2) And that was my first assumption, that the previous owner must have tampered with the interior... but really, why on earth would he mess with the wires in the first place? If he were installing the NRT tweeters, than i'd understand but they come with the stock tweeters. :confused::confused:

Fortunately, I talked to the seller and he was pretty quick to respond and offered a refund. I think i'm going to end up shipping these back. :( I was so excited to hear these, that's why before I even had the thought of complaining and returning these I wanted to see if I could fix the problem. But after inspecting the inside, I think i'd rather have my money back and start saving my pennies for brand new sierra-1s... As simple as these speakers look in the pictures, I was impressed at how they look in person. Very nice cabinet.

Because of how the wires a rigged on these particular speakers, even if I were to upgrade to NRT, I would have to desolder the wires and that's not something I want to mess with since I lack the skills in soldering.

Thank you very much for responding and for your help, Dark Ranger.

[soundseeker]

You may have a set of older Sierra-1s. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the older version had different type of insulation. Also, since you have the serial numbers, you may want to contact Ascend to see if they are still under warranty. Lastly, you can swap the woofers and see if the issue moves to the other speaker or stays with the same speaker. That should narrow the possibilities of it being a bad woofer or a bad crossover.

[Quinn]

In the NrT thread there is a post from Dave about differences in the first generation Sierras. I believe he says just clip the wires and resolder.
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=35977&postcount=24

Also, they'd should still be covered under the 7 year transferable warranty. I think Sierras have been out for ~5 years now. If you got a good price on them just ship them to Ascend for repair. You could have them do the tweeter upgrade while they have them which would restart your warranty..."We are happy to do the upgrade for anyone and remember, if we do it -- your 7 year warranty resets and begins anew and we will also include the new measurements."

[Mag_Neato]

Quinn!! Haven't heard from you in ages!! Welcome home:D

I have a pair of original Sierra-1's to which I have done the NrT upgrade. They had the very insulation you are decribing: Yellow fiberglass-type material encased in black mesh "socks" glued to the inside of the cabinet. I ripped it out and replaced it with the white Dacron mat stuff which I happened to have on hand from my Rythmik sub project.

My speaker wires were not hard wired with solder to the speaker terminals as you describe, but rather had the spade male-female connectors. Also, the original models had a slightly different crossover board with different mounting hole spacing vs. the NrT crossover, so I used one of the original mounting holes but had to use Spax self tapping screws for the remaining 3 holes.

Sounds great and you get an official "NrT upgrade" sticker to put on the back of the speakers!

[astrodog]

You may have a set of older Sierra-1s. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the older version had different type of insulation. Also, since you have the serial numbers, you may want to contact Ascend to see if they are still under warranty. Lastly, you can swap the woofers and see if the issue moves to the other speaker or stays with the same speaker. That should narrow the possibilities of it being a bad woofer or a bad crossover.

Based off everyone's info, it looks like I do have an older sierra-1 model. I appreciate all the help and responses guys. If you guys are interested in seeing/hearing the problem, I have uploaded a video on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15YFcJ36iBc&feature=player_embedded

The guys over at overclock.net were also kind enough to lend a hand on trying to solve the speaker problem. http://www.overclock.net/t/660343/the-what-audio-equipment-did-you-buy-get-today-thread-56k-warning/1040 I posted hi-res pics of what it looks like inside the cabinet if you go to the next few pages in that link.

I think it's best at this point to just call customer support.

[curtis]

I think it's best at this point to just call customer support.
Good idea!

But Dark Ranger mentioned that a few days ago, especially since they were still under warranty. Taking it apart, you essentially voided the warranty, but I'm pretty sure Ascend will take care of you.

Did the previous owner say anything about opening them up and doing any soldering? Was he/she the original owner. What you saw is certainly not indicative of Ascend's work.

Audioholics reviewed one of the first production units, and you can see in one of the pics, that the leads to the woofer are spade connectors like Mag_Neato has.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/ascend-acoustics-sierra-1/ascend-sierra-1-build-quality.html

[soundseeker]

I agree with Quinn. If its the crossover that isn't working then the upgrade to nRT tweeter will include new crossovers. The shipping you spend returning them to the seller could otherwise be spent sending them to Ascend for the upgrade.

One thing, see if you can get the original purchase invoice from the seller. You will need to provide that to Ascend within 30 days to transfer the warranty from the seller to you.

link to Ascend warranty information. (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/support/warranty.html)

[davef]

Okay, I just took out the one of the woofers on the "bad" speaker and to my surprise they soldered the wires to the binding joints AND it's even burnt?! From the instructional videos on how to install the nrt tweeter, those wires should be able to disconnect but instead I found that they're soldered... I examined the other speaker and it's the same... What gives?

And also, the insulation is different from the one in the video. Instead of the white cotton looking stuff, it's a bunch of yellow, hairlike strands "sealed" in a black thread material but it doesn't look like they sealed it that well, so all the yellow, hairlike strands are covering the crossover. Forgive my ignorance because I know little about electronics but would this cause a short?

Hi astrodog,

I am sorry to hear about your troubles with your used Sierra-1 purchase. To address some of your concerns, if the lead wires are actually soldered directly to the binding posts, there has obviously been significant tampering with the speaker and this would inherently void our warranty. In addition, if those lead wires are burned, this would indicate a significant current surge through the crossover and through one or both of the drivers. There could be significant damage to all of the internal components.

If the cabinets are in good condition and since you are interested in the NrT upgrade (which would replace the crossover and tweeter), my recommendation would be to keep the speakers and ask the seller for a partial refund, provided that he did not advertise them as defective. From there, send the speakers back to us for the NrT ugprade --- more than likely, you will have to pay for a new woofer as well -- but you might possibly end up with a set of Sierra-1 NrT's for a terrific price :)

[davef]

Astrodog,

I looked at some of the pics you posted on that other forum... The crossover in your speaker has been modified by someone -- those aren't even the lead wires we use, which explains whey they have been soldered directly to the woofer. Please contact me privately, this is a serious issue if the seller of your speakers is trying to sell these as a "stock" pair of Sierra-1.

[soundseeker]

Just curious... how was this resolved?

[astrodog]

Seller has agreed to give me a partial refund. I'll be sending my speakers in for repair and upgrade.

[Mag_Neato]

That will give you a new warranty as well, right?

I hope you got a good deal on the speakers seeing as they have been de-flowered!

Did you open up the functioning speaker to compare internals? Were both of them modified?

[astrodog]

Correct, I talked to David and he said that the speakers will receive a refreshed 7 year warranty.

I got a decent deal... Purchased them originally for $475 shipped. Seller gave me a partial refund of $250. Would've appreciated a little more but it's better than nothing.

For the functional speaker, I never checked. The tweeter and woofer was kind of stubborn to come out so I gave up and just set it aside.

Right now, I'm just waiting for ascend to respond back with a RMA number. I sent technical support a message on the issue.

[curtis]

After all is said and done, that isn't going to be just a decent deal, it will be a great deal!

At your original purchased price from the seller, it looks like he/she knew it was doctored in some way, and was trying to unload it.