velodyne sms-1 or anti-mode 8033?

[kinggimp82]

I am looking to add a equalizer to my system to get rid of some peaks and even out my subs frequency response. I have narrowed my options down to a velodyne sms-1 or a anti-mode 8033.

Does anybody have experience with either one of these equalizers and if so what are you are impressions? Is one a better option than the other? The main difference that I notice is that the velodyne sms-1 allows you to raise nulls as well as lower peaks. Isn't it supposed to be a bad idea to boost a null in the frequency response? I've read good things about both products but I'm not sure which one to buy. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

[Gov]

I have had both and currently own the SMS. Both are very good, but the SMS is adjustable where the 8033 is not. Raising a null up to +2dB is fine any more then that is not good. I have noticed that I get improved mid-bass slam with the SMS because you can fine tune the Phase and watch on the graph how the sub behaves with the speakers. My sub only has a 0/180 switch, and I have found that a phase of 105 on the SMS and boosting a couple of nulls between 50 and 70Hz has helped quite a bit for the mid-bass. My vote would be for the SMS because lets face it, tweekers have more fun!

[curtis]

I have an Antimode 8033 (that is for sale BTW).

Gov is correct in that the 8033 is very limited in the "tweakability".

Adjusting phase is important when it comes to integrating a sub to its best capabilities, but that can also be done (although a bit more difficult) via distance settings on your AVR, but better if you have variable phase control on your sub...and pretty easy if you have two people, but watching it on your the screen with an SMS-1 is REALLY easy.

One thing that the 8033 does and the SMS-1 doesn't, and Gov can correct me if I am wrong, is correct in the time domain as well as the frequency domain. When it comes to a sub, that was more important to me than raising dips by 1-2dB. Cleaning up the time domain (decay/ringing) is more important in music than movies IMO.

[Gov]

^^^ Curtis is spot on about the time domain on the 8033

[curtis]

^^^ Curtis is spot on about the time domain on the 8033
Now tell him to buy my 8033. :D

[GirgleMirt]

One thing that the 8033 does and the SMS-1 doesn't, and Gov can correct me if I am wrong, is correct in the time domain as well as the frequency domain. When it comes to a sub, that was more important to me than raising dips by 1-2dB. Cleaning up the time domain (decay/ringing) is more important in music than movies IMO.

:confused:

Pardon my ignorance, but as the 8033 is a sub EQ, how would it improve ringing? Decay... Hmmm. Speed of sound 340.29 m/s, so if it's two meters behind the mains, sound from sub reaches the ears what, 0.005s after the sound from the mains, so that shouldn't make a big difference? (0.005s in the 'decay'?) And with the 'large' wavelengths, does that really matter? :confused:

But that said, some some speaker manufacturer offset tweeters/woofers by a few mm claiming that the time domain improvement is significant... Sooo... I dunno :o Not trying to ruin your sale, genuinely curious... Btw, I'd have 100% confidence buying from Curtis, so if the 8033 is interesting, definitely consider that option!

[curtis]

:confused:

Pardon my ignorance, but as the 8033 is a sub EQ, how would it improve ringing? Decay... Hmmm. Speed of sound 340.29 m/s, so if it's two meters behind the mains, sound from sub reaches the ears what, 0.005s after the sound from the mains, so that shouldn't make a big difference? (0.005s in the 'decay'?) And with the 'large' wavelengths, does that really matter? :confused:
Yes...it is a sub EQ. So as time domain is concerned, it works on the decay on those frequencies.

What you are describing above is corrected distance and phase settings. 0.005s is 5 milliseconds, right? I think that can be quite a lot, especially when considering sound sync issues with video....I think AVRs and pre/pros offer that correction 1 millisecond increments.

[GirgleMirt]

Yes...it is a sub EQ. So as time domain is concerned, it works on the decay on those frequencies.

What you are describing above is corrected distance and phase settings. 0.005s is 5 milliseconds, right? I think that can be quite a lot, especially when considering sound sync issues with video....I think AVRs and pre/pros offer that correction 1 millisecond increments.

Well 5ms is huge/small depending for what... Seinfeld explained it well at 1m05s here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK9rbwM3omA).

Haha, google result:

ECLIPSE TD series speaker | 100% time domain accuracy 20% off
Well if the 100% time domain accuracy is 20% off then it's not 100% time domain accurate silly! ;)

Anyway, maybe it does play an important role, I really don't know for subs... Wavelength of 40Hz is like 30 feet, so it 'lasts' significantly longer than the 'delay' timing difference it takes to reach the listener... So your brain would have to 'interpret' the 'peak' with at least 5ms accuracy for it to be noticeable... I don't know... For mids/highs, ok, I could see it, but for low frequencies? I guess it depends on how far they are from the mains/listener too.. And who knows, psychoacoustics, maybe the brain can tell the difference, I honestly don't know for certain... It would be very surprising to me, but possible I would guess!

Ok but decay, yeah, I guess I somewhat get what you're saying now, if there's a delay for the low freqs to reach the listener, it could like add 'reverb', lower the 'slam', the 'tightness' of the sound... Instead of everything arriving for the "THUMP!", if the 'bass' gets there later, could somewhat muddy/take away from the impact, and make the sound 'linger' longer... Make a longer 'decay'... ok... Now I think I get it... Makes sense in this way. :)

[curtis]

Ok but decay, yeah, I guess I somewhat get what you're saying now, if there's a delay for the low freqs to reach the listener, it could like add 'reverb', lower the 'slam', the 'tightness' of the sound... Instead of everything arriving for the "THUMP!", if the 'bass' gets there later, could somewhat muddy/take away from the impact, and make the sound 'linger' longer... Make a longer 'decay'... ok... Now I think I get it... Makes sense in this way. :)
I think I know where the confusion is now....

Decay is how long it takes the sound to stop...not reach the listener. So for instance, you get a kick drum note, it is about how long it takes that note to stop. You want that note to stop when it is suppose to.....ie. fast decay, no ringing....that is caused by the room. Rythmiks have excellent decay characteristics, and the 8033 helps with the room.

[GirgleMirt]

I think I know where the confusion is now....

Decay is how long it take the sound to stop...not reach the listener. So for instance, you get a kick drum note, it is about how long it take that note to stop. You want that note to stop when it is suppose to.....ie. fast decay, no ringing....that is caused by the room. Rythmiks have excellent decay characteristics, and the 8033 helps with the room.
Yeah I know what decay is***, but if you mean it exactly like that, then, time domain adjustments doesn't improve decay at all. It just makes the 'sound' reach the user sooner or later. A 40hz wave would still be 40hz, it wouldn't become 50hz, because of any time domain adjustment... Nor would any sound 'stop' faster, the only thing that it could do, is that it could make it start 5ms earlier, or actually, it can't even do that because it can't receive a signal earlier than it does... You'd have to delay the mains to achieve this...

Ok maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about............. Time domain accuracy = all frequencies reaching the listener at the same time. So via receiver, you can induce delays to mains/video to make the sub play earlier (so that sub extra distance is compensated by mains delay).

But ok, it's DSP (http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/anti-mode-8033.shtml) http://www.dspeaker.com/en/technology/anti-mode-technology/principle-of-operation.shtml so with more than EQ with a time domain adjustment... In fact, it has pretty much nothing to do with 'ringing'/'decay' (as per speakers), but maybe it does in practice... Anyhow... lol

*** What I meant to say was that if it reaches the listener 5ms later, it also 'stops' 5ms later... (comparatively to sound coming from mains, it's 5ms later, so, 'add decay', makes decay last longer)

[curtis]

I what you are describing is time alignment.

You never want to add decay.