Sierra-2 Development Thread

[curtis]

Stupid question: What does the 50Hz/24 setting actually do? If the signal is going in via the RCA line input from the AVR set at, say, 60Hz, what will this setting do? Does it filter any leftover stray frequencies below 50Hz at 24db/octave? A little confused.
It applies a crossover at 50hz with a 24db slope.

Maybe continue this discussion in the subwoofer area?

[Fantom]

Stupid question: What does the 50Hz/24 setting actually do? If the signal is going in via the RCA line input from the AVR set at, say, 60Hz, what will this setting do? Does it filter any leftover stray frequencies below 50Hz at 24db/octave? A little confused.

I was about to suggest the same thing about moving to a sub thread. Short answer though: It's complicated with Rythmik subs and depends which model you have. Check out the quickguide for your model here: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers.html

Assuming A370PEQ, the switch sets 1 12dB crossover and then the variable crossover knob sets another 12dB crossover. So, 50Hz/24 will set a 12dB rolloff at 50Hz and then you can set the variable crossover to around 50Hz to make the total rolloff 24dB (and also to fine tune it). The 50Hz and 80Hz options only make sense if you run your left/right through sub first, then use the line outs to power the Sierra-2s. The Sierras will received an already crossed over signal. When using an AVR to do your crossover, you want to defeat the sub crossover (the EXT/12 setting). This setting means the variable 12dB crossover is still functional, but the other crossover is disabled. You can then set the variable knob as high as possible (120dB), since your AVR already handled the crossover before the sub even sees it.

Yes, it's a bit odd. Mine is that model and that's how I have it setup with my Sierra-1s and it's great. Newer models have more specific LFE settings that more properly disable the crossover when using an AVR.

Also if you set distance manually for your speakers, that's how your AVR does phase. So the actual physical distance from you to the sub may not be "correct" if the sub is out of phase with the Sierras at the crossover. You can adjust the distance setting in your AVR or adjust the phase on the back of the sub. Automatic setups should set a sub distance that takes phase into account (so it may appear to be wrong, but in fact is better).

Interested in how the integration goes as I have an F15 and plan to upgrade to the 2s!

[Mag_Neato]

Thanks for the info. I will look into some experimenting.

The 2's do such a fantastic job by themselves that the sub is usually not missed, unless I'm playing the really deep stuff. I was listening to a familiar track and noticed an instrument playing in the background I never heard before. The resolution and dynamics of the 2's is outstanding, and not just for a monitor speaker. These are certainly the best I've owned, and among the best I've heard period.

[TheHolyCannoli]

I noticed the Sierra-1's have magnetic shielding as a $40 upgrade option. Are the Sierra-2's shielded? Did a search in this thread for magnetic, shielding, shielded, and didn't return anything useful.

[Mag_Neato]

Magnetic shielding was done primarily to protect the old CRT TV's from the effects of the stray gauss field distorting the picture and/or causing permanent damage. Today's flat screen sets are pretty much immune to those affects so I'd imagine shielding is mostly an unnecessary expense in most cases.

[TheHolyCannoli]

Magnetic shielding was done primarily to protect the old CRT TV's from the effects of the stray gauss field distorting the picture and/or causing permanent damage. Today's flat screen sets are pretty much immune to those affects so I'd imagine shielding is mostly an unnecessary expense in most cases.

Rather than my display, I was more concerned with proximity to components with a HDD. Most notably, if I decide to use a Sierra-2 as a center channel, it would likely sit next to the the PS4 console and an additional external HDD used for music storage.

[petmotel]

I noticed the Sierra-1's have magnetic shielding as a $40 upgrade option. Are the Sierra-2's shielded? Did a search in this thread for magnetic, shielding, shielded, and didn't return anything useful.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4978-Sierra-2-Development-Thread&p=46532#post46532

The above link was the unveiling of (description w/pictures) the new Sierra-2 woofer. No shielding, just a big, raw ceramic magnet hanging off that magnesium basket. Might want to keep a reasonable distance from anything sensitive to a magnetic field.

Jay

[davef]

I noticed the Sierra-1's have magnetic shielding as a $40 upgrade option. Are the Sierra-2's shielded? Did a search in this thread for magnetic, shielding, shielded, and didn't return anything useful.

Sierra-2 are not shielded, very few speakers are these days as magnetic shielding is only needed when the speakers will be placed within 2 feet of a CRT based television set (picture tube). LCD, LED, Plasma, DLP do not require magnetically shielded speakers. Also, while this is frequently misunderstood, loudspeakers do not generate anywhere close to enough of a magnetic field to harm computer equipment. It takes a minimum of about 100 times the amount of gauss generated by a loudspeaker to cause problems for a hard drive, even if that hard drive was sitting directly atop the loudspeaker. For example, a loudspeaker might measure as high as 50 Gauss directly touching the cabinet -- it takes, on average, 10,000 Gauss applied externally to wipe a hard drive.

At 3 inches away, the Sierra-2 measures only 13 Gauss. The shielded Sierra-1 measures 3 Gauss.

Our test equipment computer (with 3 hard drives) is directly next to our production line, where tens of thousands of speakers have been tested (within 6 inches of the computer) continuously for the past 14 years. The computer has never had even the slightest issue...

Hope this helps!

[Mag_Neato]

Thanks Dave. For me, that really adds some perspective. Some of the equipment I design, and ultimately fabricated by the company where I work, can measure between 1,000 - 2,000 gauss at a few inches away. That is stronger than you might imagine and much more than the average person has ever experienced. 10,000 gauss would be insane!

[debo]

You definitely have me leaning to a upgrade!

[curtis]

Looks like a few of us are going to get to hear some Sierra-2's tomorrow!

[eliwankenobi]

Watch out you dont end up returning with upgrade kits for yours!

[petmotel]

Watch out you dont end up returning with upgrade kits for yours!

Resistance is futile! If Dave builds it, they will come!

Any more appropriate words of wisdom?

Jay

BTW, after several days of serious quality time spent with my snow blower, wish I was there too!

[smurraybhm]

After having my upgrades in for a few weeks I have to post a few quick impressions with greater detail to come later. I have a 650 and growing collection of blu-rays so let me say first the 2s work great as fronts for HT. What has really impressed me is how musical they are though. I made the mistake of deciding to listen to the SHM SACD of the first Dire Straits album last Saturday after watching a blu. Set the receiver to pure and was just blown away. As it has been said by others they handled everything so well including the bass. This week I have bought 8 more SACDs (damn speakers) and despite owning some of the best multi-channel SACD disks - like Roxy Music Avalon - I find myself going with the 2 channel versions. Listened to to Beck's Sea of Change tonight and was amazed again at the range and clarity of the speakers. I know they can't dig as deep as my SVS sub - but honestly for music I'm not feeling the need right now for more than 2 channels.

If you are considering the upgrade kits or the 2s don't wait any longer. I have never had a pair of speakers that have me so immersed into to what I am listening (no I don't live in Colorado - no substance assistance) to that I don't want the album to come to an end. I can't wait for my Horizon center to come - I may never stop watching movies and listening to music then. I started buying nice AV equipment 38 years ago - these speakers are very special.

[Bsound]

^ I also have had my S-2 upgrades for a little over two weeks now and I am truly blown away! I am at a loss for words at how amazing these speakers are. From low volume clarity to wide open mid range and tight full bass, I am so very pleased. The overall experience is, like everyone I have seen talk about so far, realism. My wife put it this way - "the speakers have disappeared." The value proposition compared to what I would have to spend on speakers to get this level of great sound makes it all a reality!

So grateful to you Dave, Dina, and everyone at Ascend. If you could see the huge smile I have on my face, that might begin to convey the pleasure that Dave's sound revolution has brought into our home. And my wife loves the sound too, she is extremely sensitive to sound quality and the lack thereof.

I upgraded a set of Sierra 1's. The five years of enjoyment with them has been incredible. Now these S-2's have taken me beyond what I could have ever imagined. I knew when I heard my friend's Sierra towers with RAAL back in December, that it would be more than worth upgrading.

With the S-2's I find myself listening to almost exclusively CD quality music now. And the less-than high quality recordings are even more apparently flawed. But that trade off made worthwhile by the brilliance I hear when listening to well mastered recordings. I am just, over the last couple of days, starting to listen again to the 160 - 320 kbps music. These speakers are so transparent. I've compared some of the same tracks on CD vs iTunes downloads and with many of the recordings I have sampled it is quite clear, to my ears anyway, which is which. I even did some blind A/B testing with my wife and unless I'm somehow psychic, it is more than just imagination - much more often than not I do prefer the richness of the CDs! Listening to music on my hard drive I do hear a lot of things on the lower bit rate digital recordings that I had never heard before. It is quite surprising to hear sounds, voices, and subtleties from instruments that I have never noticed before. There will be years of fun sound exploration ahead!

A few days after I upgraded, I brought my Rythmik F12SE up from the family room to see if I could squeeze out some more performance by crossing over the low end duty. With the Rythmik it does sound even more amazing with some material. But with many recordings I can't really discern much difference. Funny thing is though, I set up my receiver to do A/B comparisons, and truthfully I find myself over time listening to more and more 2 channel. The Rythmik is moving back down to the TV room!

If you are on the fence I say buy the Sierra 2s. I am so very glad that I went for it. Being in my 50's now I figure I had better enjoy my good hearing while I can. And if you are wondering about whether to go for a subwoofer first, I say save your money for the sub while listening to these amazing speakers in true 2 channel. By the time you are ready to purchase the subwoofer you may find something more worthwhile to spend your money on. The Sierra 1s do seem to go a little deeper but there is plenty of great bass to go around without any sub at all!

my dedicated Sierra 2 channel setup -
(Rhythmik will be moving back downstairs as soon as my back heals up from dragging it upstairs)
1040

[eliwankenobi]

^ I also have had my S-2 upgrades for a little over two weeks now and I am truly blown away! I am at a loss for words at how amazing these speakers are. From low volume clarity to wide open mid range and tight full bass, I am so very pleased. The overall experience is, like everyone I have seen talk about so far, realism. My wife put it this way - "the speakers have disappeared." The value proposition compared to what I would have to spend on speakers to get this level of great sound makes it all a reality!

So grateful to you Dave, Dina, and everyone at Ascend. If you could see the huge smile I have on my face, that might begin to convey the pleasure that Dave's sound revolution has brought into our home. And my wife loves the sound too, she is extremely sensitive to sound quality and the lack thereof.

I upgraded a set of Sierra 1's. The five years of enjoyment with them has been incredible. Now these S-2's have taken me beyond what I could have ever imagined. I knew when I heard my friend's Sierra towers with RAAL back in December, that it would be more than worth upgrading.

With the S-2's I find myself listening to almost exclusively CD quality music now. And the less-than high quality recordings are even more apparently flawed. But that trade off made worthwhile by the brilliance I hear when listening to well mastered recordings. I am just, over the last couple of days, starting to listen again to the 160 - 320 kbps music. These speakers are so transparent that I know what I am missing. I've compared some of the same tracks on CD vs iTunes downloads and on almost all of the recordings I have sampled it is quite clear, to my ears anyway, which is which. I even did some blind A/B testing with my wife and unless I'm somehow psychic, it is more than just imagination that I prefer the richness of the CDs! Listening to music on my hard drive I do hear a lot of things on the lower bit rate digital recordings that I had never heard before. It is quite surprising to hear sounds, voices, and subtleties from instruments that I have never noticed before. There will be years of fun sound exploration ahead!

A few days after I upgraded, I brought my Rythmik F12SE up from the family room to see if I could squeeze out some more performance by crossing over the low end duty. With the Rythmik it does sound even more amazing with some material. But with many recordings I can't really discern much difference. Funny thing is though, I set up my receiver to do A/B comparisons, and truthfully I find myself over time listening to more and more 2 channel. The Rythmik is moving back down to the TV room!

If you are on the fence I say buy the Sierra 2s. I am so very glad that I went for it. Being in my 50's now I figure I had better enjoy my good hearing while I can. And if you are wondering about whether to go for a subwoofer first, I say save your money for the sub while listening to these amazing speakers in true 2 channel. By the time you are ready to purchase the subwoofer you may find something more worthwhile to spend your money on. The Sierra 1s do seem to go a little deeper but there is plenty of great bass to go around without any sub at all!

my dedicated Sierra 2 channel setup -
(Rhythmik will be moving back downstairs as soon as my back heals up from dragging it upstairs)
1040

Great comment!! Thank you!

What stands are those?

[Bsound]

Thanks. I bought those stands at a high end stereo shop in Malaysia when I was living there a few years ago. Not sure where you could find something similar here in the US

[TheHolyCannoli]

Finally did the deed tonight...a pair of S2's and the matching center in Satin Espresso. To be honest, choosing the finish was the most difficult aspect of this decision.

Based on everybody's reviews, seems like there are so many things to be excited about with these speakers. Oddly enough, I'm really looking forward to some low-volume dialogue tests. It drives me crazy when I'm constantly adjusting volume levels throughout a movie. Nothing like straining to barely hear an on-screen conversation and then having your ear drums blasted with 100dB's in the next scene. keeping my fingers crossed that the Sierra-2's will keep things clear at nominal volumes.

[kinggimp82]

Does anybody know where I can find the Sierra-2 graphs? I did a search but I am having no luck.

[petmotel]

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4978-Sierra-2-Development-Thread&p=46433#post46433

and there are some more on page 99.

Jay

[SGCSG1]

So when are we going to see some 'hero' shots of the Sierra-2 on the webpage? :)

Also ... IMPORTANT QUESTION!!! I ordered my Satin Dark Cherry '2's today.... please tell me that they don't come with any labels stuck on the front of them. Labels are just in the box, like the Sierra-1's, yes?

[slowturn]

So when are we going to see some 'hero' shots of the Sierra-2 on the webpage? :)

Also ... IMPORTANT QUESTION!!! I ordered my Satin Dark Cherry '2's today.... please tell me that they don't come with any labels stuck on the front of them. Labels are just in the box, like the Sierra-1's, yes?

I believe I've seen pictures of labels on back of the Sierra-1 and Sierra Tower.
Are there any stickers on the back of the Sierra-2?
Can we opt out of the stickers?

[JasonT35]

Does anyone know if the new anthem mrx 510 avr will have any problem driving these speakers?

[natetg57]

Does anyone know if the new anthem mrx 510 avr will have any problem driving these speakers?
Based on what I've read, I'd say it'd have no problem at all. Do you go extremely loud or have a huge room? Even then, I think you'd be fine.

[JasonT35]

Based on what I've read, I'd say it'd have no problem at all. Do you go extremely loud or have a huge room? Even then, I think you'd be fine.

No not extremely loud. Room is about 17 ft long , 15 ft wide and 13 ft high. I never had low sensitivity speakers before, so I wasn't sure what to expect.

Thanks

[JustABrah]

Does anyone know if the new anthem mrx 510 avr will have any problem driving these speakers?

My MRX 300 has no problem driving the S2, your good.

[davef]

So when are we going to see some 'hero' shots of the Sierra-2 on the webpage? :)

Also ... IMPORTANT QUESTION!!! I ordered my Satin Dark Cherry '2's today.... please tell me that they don't come with any labels stuck on the front of them. Labels are just in the box, like the Sierra-1's, yes?


I believe I've seen pictures of labels on back of the Sierra-1 and Sierra Tower.
Are there any stickers on the back of the Sierra-2?
Can we opt out of the stickers?

We do not install the logos on the grilles. Like with the Sierra-1, logos are included separately and adhering them to the grille is your choice :)

Like with all of our loudspeakers, there is a serial number label and product label on the back of the speaker. These are not intended to be removed.

[JasonT35]

My MRX 300 has no problem driving the S2, your good.

Great news. I love this AVR.. how does it sound with the Sierras? Excellent I imagine? Do you use ARC on or off for music listening?

[JasonT35]

I cant seem to find pictures of the different finishes. Can someone post images or provide a link?

Thanks

[Mag_Neato]

I cant seem to find pictures of the different finishes. Can someone post images or provide a link?

Thanks

You can start here....
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?5497-New-Sierra-1-Finishes-and-Intro-Pricing!

[JasonT35]

You can start here....
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?5497-New-Sierra-1-Finishes-and-Intro-Pricing!

Thanks. I was looking at the finishes for the sierra Tower as, the Sierra 2 are offered in the same finishes.

Hard to tell from the photos...what is the difference between the the black matte and black bamboo?

[natetg57]

Thanks. I was looking at the finishes for the sierra Tower as, the Sierra 2 are offered in the same finishes.

Hard to tell from the photos...what is the difference between the the black matte and black bamboo?
The black bamboo shows a little bit of the wood grain. Black matte does not.

[curtis]

The black bamboo shows a little bit of the wood grain. Black matte does not.
Nate is correct.

The black bamboo is a stained, where the black matte is painted (and durable).

[JustABrah]

Great news. I love this AVR.. how does it sound with the Sierras? Excellent I imagine? Do you use ARC on or off for music listening?

Yeah the MRX and the Sierra-2s are pretty awesome together, I use ARC on with music too, it really works great and doesn't muck things up like I've found auddsey and others do. The thing with this AVR tho is that it uses its rears a lot and I love that but now I want to buy some S2 for my rears to, after a sub upgrade.

[ematthews]

Does anyone know what the specs are on the Sierra 2 for sensitivity and ohms?

[smurraybhm]

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4978-Sierra-2-Development-Thread/page97

Here you go.

[Asliang]

Hello everybody!

It is sooo good to see the Sierra 2 finished!
I can tell you this much: There has been so much attention to detail invested in this project (by Dave, by SEAS and by us at RAAL) that it simply has to be one of the greatest "bookshelves" of all time, regardless of the budget, but we did it on a budget.
A speaker must be designed as a system in order to become a great one. From the ground up. Every component must be tweaked or freshly designed in order to work well together with other components that are equally treated...it's an evolution that has to be managed in the right direction to get a system performing a set goal to perfection.
In the old days, it could only be done by loudspeaker manufacturers that were making their own components, like KEF, Dynaudio, JBL, B&W, Whafedale...
These days, those same manufacturers (who survived) lost their touch when it comes to delivering on a budget. Their founders are long dead, the board of directors is all about making money and they couldn't care less if they invested in speakers or toilet paper...they want their shares growing and don't care how.
It was about time that someone takes over! (Hi, Dave!)
Dave doesn't make his own components, but he certainly knows how to manage their evolution to get exactly what he wants.
This is the modern equivalent of those famous manufacturers that did amazing speaker in the 80's.
This is the way to go! Kudos to you, Dave!

Merry Christmas to everyone from all at RAAL!

Aleksandar

I think most would argue the flagship products of these brands are still very, very good despite some being long in the tooth with only minor tinkering (Dynaudio's Confidence line has been around since 2004, B&W replaced their aging flagship tweeters with a carbon alloy), even if their entry-level and mid-level lines aren't as competitive as ID brands.

And another part of the problem is the countries these companies are in are printing money like crazy to cover budget deficits (or their currency is backed by the dollar, so effectively the same thing as the U.S. Federal Reserve is the world's biggest money printer), and this fundamentally affects the price of money (interest rates), the single most important signal in a market economy. These countries are being destroyed from within by their own governments, and corporations just respond to the distorted signals of the market caused by government.

[smurraybhm]

Way off the subject, but keep in mind my friend who backs/helps most of the politicians in those countries (especially the US) get elected - those poor sheep following companies ;)

So over a month later and my 2s just keep sounding better. I continue to be amazed at how often I enjoy my hi-rez collection in 2 channel only and pure direct. Can't wait for the next batch of cabinets to be built and my Horizon with RAAL to be completed. I have a feeling I may be going pure direct more often for multi channel when it joins my system.

[SGCSG1]

What's a good height for these? 40" or 38"?

[curtis]

What's a good height for these? 40" or 38"?
Like with any speaker, it depends on the height of your ears when you are in the listening position.

[aenthusiast]

I'm sure Dave and everyone at Ascend is busy but I was wondering when the official launch would be for these speakers and we'd see them on the website. Also looking forward to the larger audio community to catch wind of this speaker and maybe get some professional reviews.. (not to be little the reviews we've heard so far - thanks for sharing those.)

[SpeedD408]

I'm sure Dave and everyone at Ascend is busy but I was wondering when the official launch would be for these speakers and we'd see them on the website. Also looking forward to the larger audio community to catch wind of this speaker and maybe get some professional reviews.. (not to be little the reviews we've heard so far - thanks for sharing those.)

I would assume after they are caught up with the backlog from current orders.

[davef]

I'm sure Dave and everyone at Ascend is busy but I was wondering when the official launch would be for these speakers and we'd see them on the website. Also looking forward to the larger audio community to catch wind of this speaker and maybe get some professional reviews.. (not to be little the reviews we've heard so far - thanks for sharing those.)

I sincerely apologize for this. I got hit with this damn flu a few weeks ago and it has really beaten me up good. The good news is that we have just finished all of the Sierra-2 beauty shots, which is really the time consuming process in getting a new product on the site. You should expect to see Sierra-2's on the site within the next 2-3 days :)

In the meantime, please enjoy some of the attached pics (satin dark cherry and piano black)

[eliwankenobi]

Awesome!

[aenthusiast]

They look great. Hope you're doing better. Thanks -

[JasonT35]

Sierra 2s are on their way!!! Can't wait :)

[diesel79]

Those look amazing, really liking the satin dark cherry! Can't wait to get mine.

[JasonT35]

Just curious about separation and toe in for the Sierra 2. I have read that 30 degrees from center is a good starting point for placing the left and right speakers. Is this true for the Sierra 2? Also, what about toe in? Aim them straight ahead or toe in 5-10 degrees?

[markie]

Agreed, they are beautiful for sure! Assuming there is an expresso finish as well, the dark cherry is lighter and would reveal more of the bamboo grain I presume.

On another note we know that the front baffle joint in the newer Towers was changed, going from a 45 degree mitre to a zig zag double rabbet. This results in an even stronger joint as well as nice reveal lines. I don't see such reveal lines in the Sierra 2 cabinets, so I presume the newer joint was not deemed necessary on the Sierra 2?

Mark

[Mag_Neato]

I understood that the new joint w/reveal will be implemented on the Sierra-1/NrT/-2 cabinet as well. Not sure if both Chinese and domestic built will have this though.

[curtis]

I understood that the new joint w/reveal will be implemented on the Sierra-1/NrT/-2 cabinet as well. Not sure if both Chinese and domestic built will have this though.
Only domestic.

The pictures Dave posted are the Chinese built cabinets.

[curtis]

Just curious about separation and toe in for the Sierra 2. I have read that 30 degrees from center is a good starting point for placing the left and right speakers. Is this true for the Sierra 2? Also, what about toe in? Aim them straight ahead or toe in 5-10 degrees?
It is all a preference thing...and every room will react differently.

Here is how the Sierra-2's were set up in the Ascend demo room. The guys on the sofa are about 11' from the speakers.

http://changpics.smugmug.com/Other/Ascend-Acoustics-pictures/i-jHCjw8R/0/L/IMG_0773-L.jpg

[eliwankenobi]

Interesting..

Is that TV sitting on top of the Horizon Center?

I kinda see the left S2 tilted a little bit to the right...

[natetg57]

Interesting..

Is that TV sitting on top of the Horizon Center?

I kinda see the left S2 tilted a little bit to the right...
I think the perceived leaning is from a fishbowl effect with the camera.

[markie]

Only domestic.

The pictures Dave posted are the Chinese built cabinets.

Thanks Curtis and Ed. I recall someone mentioning that they have seen the towers with the new joint and the reveal line. Never heard the same from anyone with the Sierra 2s yet, and the new pics of the Sierra 2 from Dave don't show the reveal lines, so I'm supposing the domestic cabinet maker is thus far only making the tower cabinets and not yet the Sierra 2 cabinets?

Come to think of it, I don't recall seeing an actual pic of the tower with the reveal lines. Anyone have one to share, perhaps on the tower thread? :)

Mark

PS I clicked on the multi quote icon, but it still only allows one quote - the latest. I thought I could get Ed's in there too, but no go.

[curtis]

Thanks Curtis and Ed. I recall someone mentioning that they have seen the towers with the new joint and the reveal line. Never heard the same from anyone with the Sierra 2s yet, and the new pics of the Sierra 2 from Dave don't show the reveal lines, so I'm supposing the domestic cabinet maker is thus far only making the tower cabinets and not yet the Sierra 2 cabinets?

Come to think of it, I don't recall seeing an actual pic of the tower with the reveal lines. Anyone have one to share, perhaps on the tower thread? :)

Mark

PS I clicked on the multi quote icon, but it still only allows one quote - the latest. I thought I could get Ed's in there too, but no go.
When I was at Ascend a few weeks ago, I saw a natural Tower cabinet with the new reveal. I should have taken a picture. I kept looking at it...liked it so much, I had to walk away.

I believe there are some on the forum that have cabinets with the review, as the cabinets I saw were the last Tower pair Ascend had in stock. It's been mentioned on the forum before as well.

[curtis]

Interesting..

Is that TV sitting on top of the Horizon Center?

I kinda see the left S2 tilted a little bit to the right...
No..the TV is mounted to a bracket that is attached to the console. What you see on top of the Horizon is the speaker's grille.

If you look at the base of the stands, you can get a better perspective on how the speakers are toe'd in relation to the rug, as the rug is pretty centered/squared in the room. That all said, toeing is something you should play around with and find your own preference.

[curtis]

PS I clicked on the multi quote icon, but it still only allows one quote - the latest. I thought I could get Ed's in there too, but no go.

You click on the "+ icon for the posts you want to include, and then for the last quote you want to include, you click the "Reply With Quote".

[markie]

You click on the "+ icon for the posts you want to include, and then for the last quote you want to include, you click the "Reply With Quote".


Thanks Curtis and Ed. I recall someone mentioning that they have seen the towers with the new joint and the reveal line. Never heard the same from anyone with the Sierra 2s yet, and the new pics of the Sierra 2 from Dave don't show the reveal lines, so I'm supposing the domestic cabinet maker is thus far only making the tower cabinets and not yet the Sierra 2 cabinets?

Come to think of it, I don't recall seeing an actual pic of the tower with the reveal lines. Anyone have one to share, perhaps on the tower thread? :)

Mark

PS I clicked on the multi quote icon, but it still only allows one quote - the latest. I thought I could get Ed's in there too, but no go.

Got the hang of it now, thanks Curtis!
Mark

[davef]

Thanks Curtis and Ed. I recall someone mentioning that they have seen the towers with the new joint and the reveal line. Never heard the same from anyone with the Sierra 2s yet, and the new pics of the Sierra 2 from Dave don't show the reveal lines, so I'm supposing the domestic cabinet maker is thus far only making the tower cabinets and not yet the Sierra 2 cabinets?

Come to think of it, I don't recall seeing an actual pic of the tower with the reveal lines. Anyone have one to share, perhaps on the tower thread? :)


Here you go!

[shinny]

Hi Dave,
I noticed a Geekpulse DAC on the equipment list in the demo room pic above. What do you think of it and what would you compare it to, as in other DAC's? Thanks.
Steve

[pj-]

I sincerely apologize for this. I got hit with this damn flu a few weeks ago and it has really beaten me up good. The good news is that we have just finished all of the Sierra-2 beauty shots, which is really the time consuming process in getting a new product on the site. You should expect to see Sierra-2's on the site within the next 2-3 days :)

In the meantime, please enjoy some of the attached pics (satin dark cherry and piano black)

Thanks for the pics. I will be upgrading as soon as my company decides to send out last year's bonuses!

This is slightly off topic but I think your website is due for a complete overhaul. I'm pretty sure the front page hasn't changed much since I first visited it in 2004! The main banner is very dated looking and there are some rendering errors when viewing the page in chrome or safari (text overlapping or in the wrong place, image overlapping text).

I'm sure you have tons of free time to get the website up to date.

[eliwankenobi]

Hi Dave,
I noticed a Geekpulse DAC on the equipment list in the demo room pic above. What do you think of it and what would you compare it to, as in other DAC's? Thanks.
Steve

I think you refer to the link below my signature, which is below curtis' post with the picture of the demo room.

The Geek Pulse DAC is a product that was crowd-funded through indiegogo. The link I have on my signature will take you to the webpage and you can see all its info. Its still has not been released and is in its development stage for release between mid April to May. No body other than the people at LH Labs have heard it and there are still components which still to be decided. It will be based on the ESS Reference SABRE32 ES9018-2KM Stereo DAC and will play PCM up to 384khz and up to DSD128 (and possibly DSD256 as well). I have upgraded it to a dual mono balanced differential configuration (includes balanced headphone drive as well) as well as other upgrades for power supply, active components in the analog stage and digital clocks. It should represent a great value against the competition once it is released and to bring it back to the Sierra-2, it should be able to extract all the sonic goodies to feed my system driving my Sierra-2s to make them shine even brighter!

You can still pre-order a Pulse DAC if you are interested for $499 and get it shipped to you when it hits the market. Even at that price and with basic configuration, it will be a capable DAC based on its features alone and what's out there in the market now... If you want more info I suggest you visit LHLabs.com and become a member of the Geek Temple forum so as not to deviate this thread from the Sierra-2 discussion.

[markie]

Here you go!

Thank you! I'm embarrassed to say that in my naivety I pictured four reveal lines to be visible from a head on view of the front baffle, rather than on the sides of the front baffle. :o

Mark

[SGCSG1]

Can someone (Dave?) please tell me if the joint and reveal line cabinet construction will have any effect on sound quality?

[SGCSG1]

Just thought of an interesting question.... many people prefer the looks and sound of the 2's without grills. I'd guess it's maybe 50/50.

Since the cabinets are being made domestically could someone special order a cabinet with no inserts for the speaker grills, just a smooth front?

Some people might really like that.

Drilling the holes and putting in the inserts for the grill cloth plugs is probably the last thing the cabinet maker does. All he'd have to do is not do it. Pretty simple I'd think. Even I can not do things. :)

Who would like say, a piano black Sierra-2 with open drivers and no holes on the face?

[curtis]

Can someone (Dave?) please tell me if the joint and reveal line cabinet construction will have any effect on sound quality?
No...it doesn't.

[curtis]

There is a Sierra-2 page now:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2/srm2.html

[davef]

This is slightly off topic but I think your website is due for a complete overhaul. I'm pretty sure the front page hasn't changed much since I first visited it in 2004! The main banner is very dated looking and there are some rendering errors when viewing the page in chrome or safari (text overlapping or in the wrong place, image overlapping text).

I'm sure you have tons of free time to get the website up to date.

100% agree -- and a major website update is #1 priority for this year.

[eliwankenobi]

100% agree -- and a major website update is #1 priority for this year.

A 5.1 set of Sierra-2s and Rythmik subwoofer in exchange for a new website, anyone?

[Mr.Lawrence]

In the photo, the Sierra 2's are being demo'd with the Horizon with NrT. Would that be the accepted configuration if one was to want a HT setup using a Horizon, or would it be a better match with having the ribbon tweeter option installed in the Horizon to complement the Sierra 2's?

I currently have Sierra 1 (LCR). I want to upgrade to Sierra 2. I'm considering either upgrading all 3 Sierra 1's, or purchasing the upgrade for two of my existing Sierra 1's, and adding a Horizon.

Thanks!


It is all a preference thing...and every room will react differently.

Here is how the Sierra-2's were set up in the Ascend demo room. The guys on the sofa are about 11' from the speakers.

http://changpics.smugmug.com/Other/Ascend-Acoustics-pictures/i-jHCjw8R/0/L/IMG_0773-L.jpg

[curtis]

In the photo, the Sierra 2's are being demo'd with the Horizon with NrT. Would that be the accepted configuration if one was to want a HT setup using a Horizon, or would it be a better match with having the ribbon tweeter option installed in the Horizon to complement the Sierra 2's?

I currently have Sierra 1 (LCR). I want to upgrade to Sierra 2. I'm considering either upgrading all 3 Sierra 1's, or purchasing the upgrade for two of my existing Sierra 1's, and adding a Horizon.

Thanks!
The Horizon was not used at all...we just listened to the Sierra-2s.

IMO...three Sierra-2s up front would be best, if you did Sierra-2s as mains. Next would be all RAAL.

[FirstReflect]

I have to agree, I've been listening VERY critically over that past couple of days. 3 Sierra-2 would be the ideal choice in terms of getting a flawless match and seamless pans across the front. Second best would be pairing the Sierra-2 with the Horizon RAAL, where the tone and timbre are a very, very close match, but the Horizon RAAL still holds the slight edge and just has a tiny bit better clarity and transparency.

If you're less concerned with a flawless match and would rather prefer the utmost clarity for dialogue from your Center speaker, then flip that, and make the Horizon RAAL Center your top choice. It does still hold a slight edge in performance over the Sierra-2 ;)

But the NrT should not be your top choice. I say that as though there's some huge difference :p There isn't. The standard Horizon is obviously still an excellent, excellent speaker! But the timbral and tonal mismatch of the NrT tweeters vs. the RAAL ribbon tweeters is audible. It is by no means a "night and day" sort of difference. But it is discernible and identifiable.

So if you are a critical enough listener to even be asking such things beforehand, I truly believe you are a critical enough listener that you will want to keep it all RAAL ribbon tweeters up front ;)

[Mr.Lawrence]

Thanks guys. Upgrading my three Sierra 1s, is the least expensive route. I'm sure I'll be pleased. Now, hopefully my Sierra 1 speakers compatible with the upgrade. I understand there maybe a fitment issue with the first generation Sierra 1's. I'm not sure what gen Sierra I have, but I think I bought them in 2008.

[Bill66]

Hello All, Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread, but when are the Sierra 2's going to be available in Satin Black? Thanks in advance!

[DevL]

By the end of next month. Satin black Horizon the month after (on back order)

[Bill66]

By the end of next month. Satin black Horizon the month after (on back order)

Thanks! Is the pricing going to be the same as Piano Black as is the Sierra Tower? I know these cabinets are going to be made stateside so.....

[ematthews]

You want to know what is the worst thing about the Sierra 2. Bad recorded music. I can not listen to a lot of my source material that was mixed really bad. These speakers are so sweet that good source material is addicting. Bad recordings do not sound good since they revel this.. I am thinking of adding a second set of speakers to my system just to play the bad stuff.:D Sierra 2's are making me listen to stiff I never did. My wife will poke her nose in and say what the heck are you listening to? It's not my normal prog rock stuff. It's jazz with female voices etc...

[petmotel]

You want to know what is the worst thing about the Sierra 2. Bad recorded music. I can not listen to a lot of my source material that was mixed really bad. These speakers are so sweet that good source material is addicting. Bad recordings do not sound good since they revel this.. I am thinking of adding a second set of speakers to my system just to play the bad stuff.:D Sierra 2's are making me listen to stiff I never did. My wife will poke her nose in and say what the heck are you listening to? It's not my normal prog rock stuff. It's jazz with female voices etc...

So very true, I've always felt that the better my system becomes, the better the source material needs to be. Much of my older rock & roll is pretty poorly recorded, as is much of the newer popular music.

The huge amount of dynamic compression used in modern recordings just squeezes all the life out of what might have been really good music. I have definitely learned an appreciation for alternate genres of music such as jazz, and blues since I started buying high quality speakers. Many of the concerts recorded on Blu-ray are very well recorded, with the advantage of high resolution video, and lossless, discrete multi-channel sound.

Jay

[ematthews]

I guess the best thing to have is the alternate speakers for these occasions. When I want to listen to hi quality stuff switch over to A speakers. When I want to rock out switch to the B speakers... That's my only solution. Not complaining. Just fixing an issues...
Now... I need to find a decent floor speaker to rock out... Cerwin Vega??? Ha.

[davef]

Thanks! Is the pricing going to be the same as Piano Black as is the Sierra Tower? I know these cabinets are going to be made stateside so.....

Satin black bamboo should be available in a week or two. The finish is the same as this: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/images/products/speakers/srt/bb1-large.jpg

Please see attached for pricing on the Sierra-2 domestic cabinets.

[neveralone777]

Good evening to all. I wanted to give a quick thanks to everyone on this forum for providing your own personal reviews of the Sierra-2 and all other Ascend products. I currently own a 5.0 set of Polk speakers that cost about $100 per pair. Based on your reviews, positive feedback and excitement about the new Sierra-2's, I just placed an order for a pair of my own.

I smile each time I read a post of someone asking if the difference is noticeable from the Sierra-1 to Sierra-2. Or the CMT-340 to the Sierra-2. I am coming from 10 year old cheap speakers that are really just a step above TV speakers. So I won't ask if the difference will be noticeable. The funny this is my friends and family like to watch movies at my house because I have a "nice setup." I don't have any family or friends with speakers. This is a hobby that I have enjoyed on my own and have promised my wife she will soon be a believer too. The satin dark cherry finish will certainly help win her over.

I started searching for speaker upgrades a year ago and did my usual google search of "best speakers under $500" or $1000. Ascend acoustics are not on these lists. And thankfully I didn't have the money then so I didn't make an impulse buy on the first set of Best Buys speakers I heard. It didn't take long until many people on AVS forum told me to check out Ascend. I read everything I could about them and was ready to get Sierra-1's. I then found this forum and have been a silent subscriber for almost a year now, checking twice a day to get info released about pricing and pictures.

I wanted to wait to see how the Ascend community responded to them. Everyone here is very excited about them and I knew it was finally time to purchase my first pair of real speakers. Thanks to all here for your reviews and the pictures you post. Without these I would just have the speaker measurements which I know very little about. When I receive my set I will post my average joe review. I don't know all the technical terms but I know what sounds good. I will be back on here soon I am sure to ask a few questions on setup and placement. And with a few pictures of my own now! ;)

[FirstReflect]

Congrats, neveralone777!

That certainly is a huge step in terms of speaker quality and price. It's even bigger when you consider that most retail store brands that cost as much to make as the Sierra-2 would be priced up in the $4000/pair range or higher. There's really no comparing the MSRP. It's much more important to consider the actual cost of the speakers. The retail price is just an arbitrary number ;)

It's always a bit amusing to me when folks say, "I don't know the tech and the jargon, but I know what sounds good". You DO know what sounds good because you're constantly listening to real life sounds every waking moment of every day! So I always say, don't worry about the tech and the jargon. I mean, it's certainly fun to know WHY a certain thing sounds a certain way, but you don't require that knowledge in order to recognize someone's voice or tell when someone's playing a real live instrument vs. someone with the radio on.

I actually think that folks who are less experienced listeners can have the advantage. They just hear what they hear and react honestly. If it sounds real, then it sounds real, and they don't go worrying about specs and graphs the way audio nuts do ;)

Frankly, the hardest people to win over are the folks who have considered themselves speaker aficionados for many years, but what they've actually done is simply gotten used to a particular characteristic sound. Once they're used to that and set in their ways, that's what they consider "right", and anything that sounds different - even if the new sound is more accurate, true to life, and realistic - is labelled as "wrong" or displeasing. I see that all the time when it comes to bass reproduction especially. So many folks have gotten used to massive amounts of distortion and resonance that they never even knew was there, and then when they hear accurate bass, they think something is missing!

Crazy thing is, the Sierra-2 are so clean and so accurate, we're even seeing some similar comments regarding their sound. In actuality, what the Sierra-2 have is a lack of sound - in the sense that they produce far less residual sound and distortion than likely any speaker you've ever heard before! People honestly aren't used to it. And anyone who's auditioned a lot of speakers instantly recognizes the difference. It's quite stunning how uncoloured they are and how they really just get out of the way by not producing any sounds of their own that are not in the recording.

That said, what's even more astonishing are the Sierra Towers RAAL and Sierra Horizon RAAL. By direct comparison - and ONLY by direct comparison - the Towers RAAL and Horizon RAAL are even more transparent and even more resolving. I've been listening extremely critically and making that direct comparison with instant switching. I continue to only really be able to describe it thusly: the Sierra-2 can sound like a real live person is speaking or singing to me in my room from 6-10 feet away; when I switch to the Horizon RAAL, it's as though that same person is now only 3 feet away, though not any louder :p

So that's the kind of detail and utter clarity that the Towers RAAL and Horizon RAAL can offer. The Sierra-2 sound remarkably similar, though not quite identical . It doesn't quite fit to call them a "smaller version". They don't sound "smaller" than the Towers RAAL. The Sierra-2 just sort of sound as though all the sounds took one step back, but didn't get any quieter -- haha

But if you were to listen to the Sierra-2 and the Towers RAAL separately, without this direct comparison and instantaneous A-B switching, you'd swear they sounded identical. And that is absolutely amazing and remarkable!

Comparing the Sierra-2 to what you have now, it will be a total revelation. With speakers like the Sierra-2, the key can actually be to connect them up, start something playing, and then just walk away. Start by hearing them from a distance rather than listening to them hyper critically right away. Let them draw you in, because they will!

If you sit someone down, point the speakers out to them, and then tell them to listen closely, they're rarely as impressed. When we're looking right at a speaker and anticipating the sound to come out of them, we've primed ourselves for a certain expectation, and we're keenly aware that we're listening to speakers. That tends to ruin the illusion, and we don't really hear the sound so much as we tune out most of what we're hearing because we're so focused on trying to notice a difference! I really think a lot of so-called "audiophiles" fall into that trap. When you're only focuses on spotting differences and contrasts, you can easily end up missing the forest for the trees!

So I strongly recommend letting both yourself and your wife "discover" the Sierra-2's sound quality in a more natural and relaxed fashion. If you excitedly sit her down and pressure her to "really listen", she'll probably be too distracted and narrowly focuses to really take it all in. Instead, just hook them up, put on some nice music, and casually walk away :) It'll strike both you and her, I can promise you that. It'll suddenly dawn on you how amazing the music sounds, and how it's never ever sounded like that in your home before. That's the real listening test. That's the genuine reaction. The Sierra-2 will draw you in, I guarantee it. And before you know it, you'll have sat down and listened to the whole album or playlist without even having intended to do so. When's the last time you just sat and listened to a whole album from beginning to end with the music being your only focus and entertainment? It's one thing when you plan it out and basically force yourself to do it. But when it just happens naturally because it sounds so darn good - as though you're out at a live performance with the performers right in front of you? That's magic. And that experience will sell anyone on such a purchase.

So treat yourself. Let yourself relax and be drawn in by the sound. There's too much pressure sometimes in this hobby. Too much focus on the details and differences rather than the instinctual reaction of just hearing and enjoying truly great sound.

Have fun!

- Rob H.

[Jhnsmj]

Wow. You've nailed it. I only wish someone had given me this advice just before my RAAL towers showed up. It took me quite a while to relax and just listen, instead of concentrating on how the speakers sounded. The whole point is that it's as if they aren't there -- just the music. And it is magical.

[sesquipedalian]

What's the current status on the US made cabinets (specifically matte black)?

[davef]

What's the current status on the US made cabinets (specifically matte black)?

We actually just got off the phone with our cabinet maker. They are hoping to have them ready at the end of this week -- which likely means we will receive them early next week. I sincerely apologize that they are taking longer than expected... We submitted the largest PO that our local cabinet maker has ever received and I think they were just a little too ambitious on completion dates :o

Thanks for your continued patience!

[sesquipedalian]

Cool. Thanks for the update.

[davef]

I am very pleased to report that our new US built Sierra-1/Sierra-2 cabinets are finally here and they look great!

I will -try- to get some pics loaded on the website within the next 2 weeks. Finishes that are currently available are:

Black Matte
Black Bamboo
Satin Espresso
Satin Dark Cherry

These finishes match the Sierra Towers. Once we get caught up with the back orders on these, we will add them to the website. In the meantime, we are happy to take orders by phone.

We will be invoicing and shipping these out to those already on the backorder list starting tomorrow :)

Thanks so much for your patience!!

[SpeedD408]

NICE!!!! Can't wait and only a 20 minute drive to pick them up!! :)

[Drew888]

I enjoyed your post Rob, that's exactly it!!

I'm right there with neveralone777 as this was me a year ago and I've really enjoyed driving down from Anaheim and picking up my Sierra 1's.

Not long ago, I was playing some music on a lazy Sunday morning when my nephew came over and during our conversation he looked a little perplexed and just turned around, walked over, and sat on the sofa for a listen. He was certainly drawn in and couldn't believe what he was hearing. These were the regular Sierra 1's btw. He went on to tell me his Dad spent a lot on B&W's an high end Paradigms and my system sounds better to him.

That day he went home to research Ascend Acoustics and read the reviews. Shortly after he was one of the first to pick up a set of Sierra 2's!

About a month later I visit him in his new home and he was showing them off. It was immediately clear that these were in a different league and they blew me away all over again. I'll have to admit I was a little bummed out that the difference was that great. Just a few weeks prior to that he had a temporary set of Sierra's with NRT's and he brought them over so we could A/B them against mine (an all day affair :) ). We ran music and movies through them all day and over and over again and we got to the point we could tell the subtle difference but you really had to know that particular song and concentrate to discern the difference. Not at all the case against the Sierra 2's. There was just an obvious warm and smooth accurate sound that I couldn't get enough of.

Suffice to say, I'm planning an upgrade!!

Cheers,

Drew

[paulphoosreal]

Drew,you just didn't make my day.Now I'm afraid that after I hear my 2's,I'll have to explain to the wife why I need to upgrade both towers to Raals.I have been totally happy with the sound of the Nrt's.Yet,maybe,I am missing something as well as not letting my clientele have access to what maybe the best speakers out there not insanely priced.

[RRT-NPS]

Question. Now that there are several pairs of Sierra-2s out in the wild, has anyone compared the bass response to the OG Sierra? I know what the numbers say but to the ear, is it really obvious?

When I first heard the Sierra-1, I was blown away by the bass response and couldn't believe all that bass was coming out of that speaker. Do you all get the same reaction to the Sierra-2?

[JustABrah]

Question. Now that there are several pairs of Sierra-2s out in the wild, has anyone compared the bass response to the OG Sierra? I know what the numbers say but to the ear, is it really obvious?

When I first heard the Sierra-1, I was blown away by the bass response and couldn't believe all that bass was coming out of that speaker. Do you all get the same reaction to the Sierra-2?

No it's not noticeable but I also crossover at 60, bass seems better/tighter tbh. I think you'd still want a sub with either S1 or S2

[ematthews]

With some music a sub isn't even needed as it degrades how nice the Sierra 2 sounds by itself. With that said most of the time I am running my Rythmik F12 with them... So awesome!!!!

[eliwankenobi]

With some music a sub isn't even needed as it degrades how nice the Sierra 2 sounds by itself. With that said most of the time I am running my Rythmik F12 with them... So awesome!!!!

Jealous!! I want one too! But can't afford it now!

[davef]

Question. Now that there are several pairs of Sierra-2s out in the wild, has anyone compared the bass response to the OG Sierra? I know what the numbers say but to the ear, is it really obvious?

When I first heard the Sierra-1, I was blown away by the bass response and couldn't believe all that bass was coming out of that speaker. Do you all get the same reaction to the Sierra-2?

The numbers really don't describe the difference in the bass response. While the Sierra-1 does extend slightly deeper (might be audible depending on the source material and the room) the bass response of the Sierra-2 is tighter and more accurate with regard to transient accuracy, which I feel is easily audible.

[Audiolover458]

I think you refer to the link below my signature, which is below curtis' post with the picture of the demo room.

The Geek Pulse DAC is a product that was crowd-funded through indiegogo. The link I have on my signature will take you to the webpage and you can see all its info. Its still has not been released and is in its development stage for release between mid April to May. No body other than the people at LH Labs have heard it and there are still components which still to be decided. It will be based on the ESS Reference SABRE32 ES9018-2KM Stereo DAC and will play PCM up to 384khz and up to DSD128 (and possibly DSD256 as well). I have upgraded it to a dual mono balanced differential configuration (includes balanced headphone drive as well) as well as other upgrades for power supply, active components in the analog stage and digital clocks. It should represent a great value against the competition once it is released and to bring it back to the Sierra-2, it should be able to extract all the sonic goodies to feed my system driving my Sierra-2s to make them shine even brighter!

You can still pre-order a Pulse DAC if you are interested for $499 and get it shipped to you when it hits the market. Even at that price and with basic configuration, it will be a capable DAC based on its features alone and what's out there in the market now... If you want more info I suggest you visit LHLabs.com and become a member of the Geek Temple forum so as not to deviate this thread from the Sierra-2 discussion.



ELI - How do the Sierra 2's sound with the TX-SR705? Do you feel a lack of any power or clipping when using all your speakers? I have a TX-SR875 and I plan to use it with the Towers. Thanks.

[eliwankenobi]

ELI - How do the Sierra 2's sound with the TX-SR705? Do you feel a lack of any power or clipping when using all your speakers? I have a TX-SR875 and I plan to use it with the Towers. Thanks.


They sound pretty good! Your SR875 has a beefier power supply and has a higher wattage supply than mine. Add to that the higher efficiency of the towers and you should have no problems driving them. I would recommend listening to two channel music using PURE AUDIO mode.

I still plan on getting a separate amp to drive them, though not necessary at all, but I heard my Sierra-2s driven by a Bryston 9b-ST power amp and they did sounded pretty good!, and in general , there are POS than CONS to using a separate power amp. But that's an upgrade for some other day. First is affording that Rythmik!! :)

[Audiolover458]

So you are using the PC with JRIver to send your music and movies to the PS3 and then the PS3 is playing them through the SR-705? I need to figure out how to play my FLAC files that way because I keep on having issues and I am hard wired between my Router and the PS3.

I am getting a JL Sub with my Towers but will need to invest in a Center Horizon and at least a 3 Channel AMP but that is an upgrade for next year.

DO THE SIERRA2's not need a Stand. I do not get that option when I put them in my Cart but I do for the Sierra1's.

Thanks.

[eliwankenobi]

So you are using the PC with JRIver to send your music and movies to the PS3 and then the PS3 is playing them through the SR-705? I need to figure out how to play my FLAC files that way because I keep on having issues and I am hard wired between my Router and the PS3.

I am getting a JL Sub with my Towers but will need to invest in a Center Horizon and at least a 3 Channel AMP but that is an upgrade for next year.

DO THE SIERRA2's not need a Stand. I do not get that option when I put them in my Cart but I do for the Sierra1's.

Thanks.

JLAudio subs dude! Mic drop!

Ok, regarding JRiver and music. Not quite. I use my PC with JRiver directly into the Onkyo using HDMI. Then I just use my iphone to control the music playback from JRIver. My plan in the future is use JRiver for everything. But not now... Priorities first (subwoofers)

Now, you can use JRiver as a DLNA server and it has PS3 specific settings so you can playback your FLAC files to the PS3 no problem. There are several settings to make this work. If you need help with it send me a PM or start a different thread so as not to deviate too much from the topic. The catch though is that the PS3 does not work as a dlna renderer. You need to browse from the ps3 menu the tracks you want to play. If you work based on playlists, that would be a better option. I prefer to go hdmi straight to the onkyo so I can play my stereo and multichannel music as well as my hi-res files to the Onkyo. It's more flexible for me that way.

The Sierra-2s need a stand in my opinion. I recently bought the Sanus SF-26. They are in the ballpark of having the tweeters at ear position and they look great! and they also sound better! There is more focus on things. Probably because they are not vibrating as much like when they were in my diy movie shelf. Will post a picture later.

[Audiolover458]

Thanks for the update. I guess I need to order these in Black. I did not see any matching stands at Ascend. Wow Stands are Expensive. Thanks for the other info.
In my case I thought the Sub made more sense than the AMP.
Will plan for it as soon as I hit that Jackpot :-).


Please do Post the Pictures of the SR2 on your new Stands

[Harro]

I have a pair of Bello 30 inch speakers stands if you would be interested?

Bello Speaker Stands (http://www.amazon.com/BellO-SP-300-Finish-Speaker-Stands/dp/B000M4MEXU/ref=sr_1_1/185-8679529-1625317?ie=UTF8&qid=1399583472&sr=8-1&keywords=bello+speaker+stand)

Also if you need some help setting up a system such as I have (HTPC) I could lend you a hand.

[Audiolover458]

That is so nice of you. I dont have the Sierra2 or Sierra1 for that matter. It is confusing because Sierra 1 with NrT run 1150ish and Sierra2 that has the RAAL runs 1450ish so at that point why would one not get the Sierra2. That would need the Wife's approval because I had her convinced we could return the ****/Yamaha setup that we bought from Costco for 750 and buy the Sierra1's without the NrT and use my Spare Yamaha RX-V2095 to drive them.

I will definitely seek your advice on the HTPC. I am very PC Savvy just missing the HT part.

[Marshall]

Would these stands not work?

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/access/spkstnds/pedstlcmt340.html


Thanks for the update. I guess I need to order these in Black. I did not see any matching stands at Ascend. Wow Stands are Expensive. Thanks for the other info.
In my case I thought the Sub made more sense than the AMP.
Will plan for it as soon as I hit that Jackpot :-).


Please do Post the Pictures of the SR2 on your new Stands

[Marshall]

I will definitely seek your advice on the HTPC. I am very PC Savvy just missing the HT part.

I'm a huge Plex fan after using quite a few other HTPC frontends. If you haven't checked out Plex, I strongly recommend that you do. I'll have a video on how to setup Plex using an HTPC or Roku in a few days. Please let me know if you want me to send you a link.

[Audiolover458]

Hi Marshall they would if they were in Natural :-). I would hope we can get to color match the stands even if the stands are mdf vs Bamboo.

yes, please send the link. always helpful to see different ways to do the HTPC.

I have heard good things about JRiver though and I have heard of PLEX but not as familiar.
Not sure what Harro has but he has a sweet HTPV Setup. Lines up stuff in seconds and he is controlling it all with his Denon Remote.

[UNCMT9]

Hello all,
Is the Sierra 2 center (listed for half the price on the product page of a pair of 2's) a single unit as opposed to a pair, or is it a specific center designed to match the 2? Could one create a uniform soundstage with 3 2's across the LRC for movies and blu ray as opposed to 2's and the Horizon RAAL center? Thanks!

[smurraybhm]

Definitely 3 2s would work great. I have to admit I am really liking my newly acquired Horizon with RAAL upgrade as my center with my 2s. Either way I have no doubt you'll be very pleased with either solution. I've just had my eye on the Horuzon since Dave introduced it - it is an incredible speaker that is hard to fully appreciate until you see it in person and I may end up with 3 across the front eventually.

[curtis]

Hello all,
Is the Sierra 2 center (listed for half the price on the product page of a pair of 2's) a single unit as opposed to a pair, or is it a specific center designed to match the 2?
It is a single unit with the tweeter rotated 90 degrees and comes with a full length grille so it can be laid horizontally. You can order as a single standard Sierra-2 as well.

[Audiolover458]

So here is another question. Given the choice of one which one would you choose
1) Two Towers with RAAL and no Horizon

Or

2) Two Sierra 2's with RAAL and a Horizon Center with RAAL.

Or

3) 3 Horizons with RAAL as L/C/R.

[Kisakuku]

So here is another question. Given the choice of one which one would you choose
1) Two Towers with RAAL and no Horizon

Or

2) Two Sierra 2's with RAAL and a Horizon Center with RAAL.

Or

3) 3 Horizons with RAAL as L/C/R.

If your budget and space allow for options 1 and 3, why not just get Towers and Horizon, all with RAAL upgrades?..

[Audiolover458]

I just realized it that the 3 Horizons or the Two tower and the Horizon Cost the same.
I have the Two towers with RAAL on order. So the question should have been a PAIR of Sierra2s with RAAL and a Horizon with RAAL or Two Towers with RAAL. Thanks.
So you can figure out the Question is the Budget and not the space.

[UNCMT9]

It is a single unit with the tweeter rotated 90 degrees and comes with a full length grille so it can be laid horizontally. You can order as a single standard Sierra-2 as well.

Awesome. Thanks, Curtis. Are there any reviews on this center? I can't find the specs whatsoever. I'm assuming it doesn't have RAAL does it? Any information appreciated!

[curtis]

Awesome. Thanks, Curtis. Are there any reviews on this center? I can't find the specs whatsoever. I'm assuming it doesn't have RAAL does it? Any information appreciated!
Same speaker with the tweeter rotated, so it has the same RAAL tweeter.
No specific info on it as a center...but it is essentially the same as the standard Sierra-2.

[curtis]

I just realized it that the 3 Horizons or the Two tower and the Horizon Cost the same.
I have the Two towers with RAAL on order. So the question should have been a PAIR of Sierra2s with RAAL and a Horizon with RAAL or Two Towers with RAAL. Thanks.
So you can figure out the Question is the Budget and not the space.
Is this to satisfy your urge "right now" or can you get the Towers and get the Horizon later?

[Audiolover458]

Definitely to satisfy my urge now :-). I sure can get the Horizon Later because I cant afford it right now along with the Towers with RAAL.

[curtis]

Definitely to satisfy my urge now :-). I sure can get the Horizon Later because I cant afford it right now along with the Towers with RAAL.
The Tower is a better speaker. Get it and save for the Horizon. That is the setup you want, right?

[Audiolover458]

The Tower is a better speaker. Get it and save for the Horizon. That is the setup you want, right?

That is correct. Anyone Compare these to the Bryston Mid-T? The Brystons are like 3600 too so out of my reach. I want the best I can afford but some folks had been saying maybe the Horizon RAAL across the Front may be even better. It seems people go more Ga-Ga over the Horizon with RAAL than the Towers that is why I asked the question.

[curtis]

That is correct. Anyone Compare these to the Bryston Mid-T? The Brystons are like 3600 too so out of my reach. I want the best I can afford but some folks had been saying maybe the Horizon RAAL across the Front may be even better. It seems people go more Ga-Ga over the Horizon with RAAL than the Towers that is why I asked the question.
Component wise, the Bryston is not even in the same class as a CMT-340SE IMO.

Not sure where you are reading that the Horizon is better than a Tower....

[jimb]

A Sierra 2 center would be a very nice solution for me (with Sierra 2 F & R). But, since the two drivers do not share a vertical axis, I'm concerned about the comb effects in the crossover region when moving to the left and right of center. I would LOVE to see the horizontal response curves for the Sierra 2 center configuration!

[jimb]

FYI, in case this is not elsewhere in this thread, I understand that the port plugs for the Sierra 1 are not applicable to the Sierra 2.

[natetg57]

FYI, in case this is not elsewhere in this thread, I understand that the port plugs for the Sierra 1 are not applicable to the Sierra 2.

The port plugs CAN be used with the Sierra-2's, but because of the Sierra-2's different bass response, they won't be needed in as many cases. It's still a matter of trying them out in your own room.

[jimb]

The port plugs CAN be used with the Sierra-2's, but because of the Sierra-2's different bass response, they won't be needed in as many cases. It's still a matter of trying them out in your own room.

Can you say a little more about the expected benefits? When they would be appropriate? From a message I passed to Dave (and reply passed back to me), it seemed he did not recommend them for use when placing the S2s in a cabinet or near a wall. I want to order soon!

[natetg57]

Can you say a little more about the expected benefits? When they would be appropriate? From a message I passed to Dave (and reply passed back to me), it seemed he did not recommend them for use when placing the S2s in a cabinet or near a wall. I want to order soon!

If Dave didn't recommend them for your situation, then that's probably what I'd go with. The plugs will reduce some of the bass produced by the speaker. Ideally you could use a measurement mike and room software analyses to see what setup gives the flattest response. Or, just order the Sierra-2's and see how they sound. If you like what you hear than don't worry bout it. :)

[RicardoJoa]

Can you say a little more about the expected benefits? When they would be appropriate? From a message I passed to Dave (and reply passed back to me), it seemed he did not recommend them for use when placing the S2s in a cabinet or near a wall. I want to order soon!

If memories serves, i think i have read where Dave does not recommemd the port plugs regarless of FR or placement.
The close port plugs, will put the cabinets closely acting like a sealed enclosure, and when a driver is desinged for port and converted to sealed, the drivers may be in a very low Q damping enclosure which can result bottomming out. If not, the drivers will either have a very high roll off, which will probably is too high to be used with the port pluged in.

On the sierrra 1, the port can be pluged in to help reduces boundaries reinforcement from the port created from beeing the speakers too close to the wall.

[jimb]

If memories serves, i think i have read where Dave does not recommemd the port plugs regarless of FR or placement.
....

Thanks. I have now ordered my L&R pair (US Satin Expresso), but will not see and hear them until the end of June. :(

[mde8965]

Not much activity in this thread right now. I assume everyone is still happy and amazed by their S2's. I have a pair on order, along with a Horizon center with RAAL and a set of Towers with RAAL. Parts for the S2's, according to Dina, are or were backordered until the end of June. Hopefully anytime now (HINT, HINT), the S2's and the Horizion will ship. The cabinets for the Towers are on backorder until mid July. So I am hoping to evaluate the S2's as FL/FR with the Horizon for a week or two before I get the Towers. At which time the S2's will become my surrounds.

Anyway, happy 4th!!!!

[ematthews]

I am super happy with mine but something wan't right for me. Something was missing. I am using them with a Rythmik sub. I ended up really wanting to get the RAAL towers but just couldn't come up with that much money. I got a set of new RBH Sound SX-6300/R towers for a super deal. Did a bunch of A/B testing. For me it was the mids or upper bass that was missing. I guess I am just a tower person. I would still like to order the RAAL towers once I get the funds. I think the Ascends with ribbon are fantastic. I am about to put my Sierra 2's and Marantz gear up for sale to help get the Towers.

[mde8965]

I am super happy with mine but something wan't right for me. Something was missing. I am using them with a Rythmik sub. I ended up really wanting to get the RAAL towers but just couldn't come up with that much money. I got a set of new RBH Sound SX-6300/R towers for a super deal. Did a bunch of A/B testing. For me it was the mids or upper bass that was missing. I guess I am just a tower person. I would still like to order the RAAL towers once I get the funds. I think the Ascends with ribbon are fantastic. I am about to put my Sierra 2's and Marantz gear up for sale to help get the Towers.

You might want to call Dave or Dina and ask about what they will do for you on a trade to upgrade to the RAAL Towers.

[jimb]

I received mine a little earlier than expected (Thanks!). Actually, I too experience a "thin-ness" relative to expectations.

I bought them as bookshelf monitors, to be in bookshelves, flanking my TV, which is how I have them installed. They are "thin" (lacking "body") relative to what they replaced (Emotiva ERM-1) and compared to my main sound rig. However, I have not been able to give them a really serious, critical evaluation - one where pull them out into the room, on stands, with my best DAC and amp. Until I do that, I can't really say there is anything wrong with them.

For now, I am continuing to listen to them. They certainly provide the clarity and off-axis response I sought! I do value that. And they do have nice low bass for their size. If I ever arrange an appropriate critical listening session, I'll report back. My current feeling is that I can probably equalize them to be more satisfying someday, but I cannot equalize the dispersion and sound quality of a lesser speaker, so I am likely to stick with these as good long-term companions.

[ematthews]

I received mine a little earlier than expected (Thanks!). Actually, I too experience a "thin-ness" relative to expectations.

I bought them as bookshelf monitors, to be in bookshelves, flanking my TV, which is how I have them installed. They are "thin" (lacking "body") relative to what they replaced (Emotiva ERM-1) and compared to my main sound rig. However, I have not been able to give them a really serious, critical evaluation - one where pull them out into the room, on stands, with my best DAC and amp. Until I do that, I can't really say there is anything wrong with them.

For now, I am continuing to listen to them. They certainly provide the clarity and off-axis response I sought! I do value that. And they do have nice low bass for their size. If I ever arrange an appropriate critical listening session, I'll report back. My current feeling is that I can probably equalize them to be more satisfying someday, but I cannot equalize the dispersion and sound quality of a lesser speaker, so I am likely to stick with these as good long-term companions.

Just a note.... Dave explained to me that what we are hearing is a very accurate speaker with the 2's. You will not get any grey area etc with these. Once you listen for a while you CAN NOT go back to a speaker like the Emotiva. I was using Polk LSi before I got these. The one thing is I did need a sub with these since I like a bit of low end... The RBH Sound towers I got are very accurate like the Sierra's with the mid bass I was missing and really low end from a tower. I will get the Towers from Ascend one day.
Just wanted to make this point from what you said about thinness.

[jimb]

Just a note.... Dave explained to me that what we are hearing is a very accurate speaker with the 2's... The one thing is I did need a sub with these since I like a bit of low end... Just wanted to make this point from what you said about thinness.

Could be. The Emotivas are not my reference - just the speakers the S2s replaced. My main system is very high performance, as are my headphones, and I try to compare to how real instruments sound. There is a lot to like about the S2s. At the moment, I am satisfied to 'fault' the installation. I would like to roll-off driving the very low end to give the woofers a break on full range material, though I doubt that is the cause of the tonal (im)balance. As I said, I should be able to tweak the balance with equalization, if necessary.

[davef]

Could be. The Emotivas are not my reference - just the speakers the S2s replaced. My main system is very high performance, as are my headphones, and I try to compare to how real instruments sound. There is a lot to like about the S2s. At the moment, I am satisfied to 'fault' the installation. I would like to roll-off driving the very low end to give the woofers a break on full range material, though I doubt that is the cause of the tonal (im)balance. As I said, I should be able to tweak the balance with equalization, if necessary.

Are you able to post a pic of your setup?

[hornfan785]

Dave, do you plan on updating the Sierra-2 photo gallery with any of the US made finishes? I'd love to see what they look like in Black Bamboo and Black Matte.

[jimb]

Hi. Dave. I'll PM you...

[davef]

Dave, do you plan on updating the Sierra-2 photo gallery with any of the US made finishes? I'd love to see what they look like in Black Bamboo and Black Matte.

Absolutely! - in fact, we had set aside photo samples for just this purpose. However, sales of Sierra-2 continue to be brisker than we had anticipated and we had to sell the photo sample cabinets before we were able to take the pics. We have another batch of US built cabinets underway -- these should be ready in about 6-7 weeks, at which time -- new pics will be the highest priority.

[Bill66]

Hello All,

Had my Sierra 2's for a couple months now and loving them. Just a quick question, at what frequency is the tweeter/woofer crossover in the speaker? I know I read it somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. Thanks in advance!

[es2burn]

Just want to share my setup since there's some talk on streaming the FLAC's. Maybe there are others in this forum that are already doing so, I used a raspberry pi installed with XBMC to stream all my FLAC's. Used the HDMI to send signals to my X-4000 and it streams all files stored in a local NAS just fine. Since pi supports CEC, I just had both TV and receiver enabled with CEC control and I'm able to just use the TV remote to control most basic functions on the XBMC. Of course you can install the XBMC app on your phone to control it also (which is much faster). Control with TV remote is kinda sluggish unless you do some tweak to it.

That said, I've owned the S2's since April this year and I have been enjoying them DAILY since DAY 1! they are my fist pair of nice speakers (have always listened to the active computer speakers), and like many others said, I never understood what stage is until I heard them :). Also, no more listening fatique, and I get to enjoy the musics hours long after getting back from a long days work :)

Dina and David had also been superb in helping me making my purchasing decision. Not to mention I just decided to stop by their office soon before their office closes on a Friday evening, and they still accommodated me with couple hours of demoing. My budget went from the 170's to the S2's after listening. (Had to convince the wife and took some effort over the phone - she wasn't with me that day) Sure it was an impulse buy - but we have not regretted since and have been enjoying them! :)

PS - the S2's are used as main speakers in the living room so far. We're saving up for the horizon center & sub and upgrade to the towers down the road. Room size is about 18'x30'x9' open space for reference if anyone's interested.

[DevL]

I followed this thread for the better part of a year. There was going to be a satin black us version with the ports from the towers. I have satin black towers and Horizon with RAALs. I checked to see if I could order satin black Sierra 2s and saw the option not available. What is the status of satin black S2? I really want them to finish my system.

[davef]

I followed this thread for the better part of a year. There was going to be a satin black us version with the ports from the towers. I have satin black towers and Horizon with RAALs. I checked to see if I could order satin black Sierra 2s and saw the option not available. What is the status of satin black S2? I really want them to finish my system.

absolutely available -- just not listed on our site just yet. Please give us a call at the office to order them.

thanks!

[Quinn]

How close to the wall can the ports go? Trying to decide if I need an acoustically transparent screen in my new home.

Also how bad would it be to have the CC height a foot lower than the L/R?

[natetg57]

How close to the wall can the ports go? Trying to decide if I need an acoustically transparent screen in my new home.

Also how bad would it be to have the CC height a foot lower than the L/R?

12" or more is ideal but you might be ok with about 6" if you cross then over at 80hz and use a sub. A foot lower for the center should be fine. I would use something to angle it up directly facing your ears

[donaldekelly]

Why did I read through this thread? I just got my Sierra 1s and now I need to save up for the upgrade! Don't the 1s sound great enough (he asks himself)?

[curtis]

Why did I read through this thread? I just got my Sierra 1s and now I need to save up for the upgrade! Don't the 1s sound great enough (he asks himself)?
They do sound great...I am still very happy with mine.

But I have heard the Sierra-2, and will be upgrading when I can. :)

[donaldekelly]

Not that painful to wait is it? We have to put up with awesome sound in the meantime!

[tulz43]

Has anyone heard the Airmotiv 6 powered monitors and would be able to offer some comparisons? I was planning on replacing my airmotiv 6's with some Kef Ls-50's but then came across Ascend.

I'll be using the new PS Audio Sprout. Should have in a few weeks. I plan to take the Sprout down to Ascend and see what happens. I should be able to get a pair of Ls-50's from my local dealer to try out at home with the sprout. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Remonster]

Has anyone heard the Airmotiv 6 powered monitors and would be able to offer some comparisons? I was planning on replacing my airmotiv 6's with some Kef Ls-50's but then came across Ascend.

I'll be using the new PS Audio Sprout. Should have in a few weeks. I plan to take the Sprout down to Ascend and see what happens. I should be able to get a pair of Ls-50's from my local dealer to try out at home with the sprout. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I used to own the Airmotiv 6s when they first came out (actually I had one of the very first available sets, I think I reviewed them on AVSForum but I can't remember if I deleted that account). I've had Sierra 1s for about a year and just had them upgraded to 2s this past Friday (thanks again Dave and everyone at Ascend for accommodating me on such short notice!!).

For the price, the Airmotivs are great speakers. The bass is muddier and more distorted than I would prefer and the tweeter didn't sound that natural to my ear, but I've owned probably 30+ two way monitors (powered and unpowered) in that price range and the Airmotiv 6 was definitely one of the better ones overall.

I haven't heard the LS50 but I'm not a fan of KEF's overly bright and forward sound, most British speakers tend to have that same type of sound in my experience. Maybe they're catering to older listeners who are losing their ability to hear high frequencies very well, I have noticed that the older people I know really like KEFs and B&Ws but I can't stand them for very long.

The Sierra 2 is on a completely different planet which shouldn't be surprising given the fact that it costs so much more than the Airmotiv 6 and doesn't come with amplifiers built in. In every way, the Sierra 2 just sounds natural and lifelike. More so than anything anywhere near this price range that I've heard. The original Sierra blew me away when I first heard it because it was able to reproduce music so honestly while still managing to be relatively forgiving to low-quality MP3s, this is why I've always had a preference for silk dome tweeters. They always seem to be very smooth and lack sibilance or annoying distortion artifacts that I usually find in aluminum or other metallic tweeters. The magic in the Sierra 2 lies in its ability to add detail throughout the frequency range without adding much more energy or any harshness. They aren't putting out more bass or more treble, that would be dishonest to the original recording, but you hear more details and texture in songs you've heard a hundred times before. Both drivers are extremely well-controlled, that's probably been the thing that sticks out in my mind more than anything else in these first ~10 hours of listening. A lot of speaker designers use under-damped bass drivers because that over-hyped, slightly boomy bass sound is pleasing to most listeners when they quickly audition speakers at the store. In comparison to speakers like that, the 2s can sound bass-shy especially with certain genres of music. I tried using them alone for about an hour but I'm much happier with them crossed over at 80Hz to my SVS SB12 NSD.

To sum it up quickly, I returned the Airmotivs after just two weeks but I don't see myself ever getting rid of my Sierras. I listen to an extremely wide variety of styles of music and the 2s just nail every single song I've played through them. I wouldn't change a thing.

[smurraybhm]

That's the dumbest reason I have ever read on an AV forum for someone preferring what you are labeling "brighter" speakers - KEF and B&W - someone is old and has lost the ability to hear higher frequencies. I guess since I am almost 55 and have had Sierra 2s for 10 months now I need to get rid of them - even though I think they sound great. By the way at my age and having been in this hobby since I was 14 I've heard my share of 2 way bookshelf speakers as well. KEF and B&W make some excellent speakers, for me the Acends just sound better. Age, hearing ability or neither.

[Remonster]

That's the dumbest reason I have ever read on an AV forum for someone preferring what you are labeling "brighter" speakers - KEF and B&W - someone is old and has lost the ability to hear higher frequencies. I guess since I am almost 55 and have had Sierra 2s for 10 months now I need to get rid of them - even though I think they sound great. By the way at my age and having been in this hobby since I was 14 I've heard my share of 2 way bookshelf speakers as well. KEF and B&W make some excellent speakers, for me the Acends just sound better. Age, hearing ability or neither.

It was just a joke, as you get older you lose your ability to hear VERY high frequencies but KEF and B&W have a more forward sound signature on purpose. Nothing to do with helping old people hear, it's just a different presentation and a lot of people prefer lively, forward speakers over more laid back ones.

[tulz43]

Thanks Remonster. That's what I was thinking but always nice to hear from someone that has owned both. I was happy with the ls50 bass when I heard them last. I don't think I'll need a sub as the 2's go a good bit lower on paper. Plus I'm in a townhouse with a shared wall where the sub would have to go. Maybe for movies and entertaining a sub would be nice down the road.

I don't foresee myself ever going more than 2 channels. I would say music is play 90% of the time.

Can't wait to get down to Ascend and hear these first hand.

[kclb1]

I have had a hard time understanding the differences between the NrT towers, Raal towers and the Sierra 2 with Raal, in a previous post the statement was made "the Towers RAAL and Horizon RAAL are even more transparent and even more resolving than the Sierra 2". Is that because the tower's have a separate midrange driver?

I listened to the Martin Logan Motion 35xt and the Motion 40, the Motion 40 sounded clearer in the midrange which I believe was due to the additional midrange driver.

So wouldnt the extra components within the NrT towers and Raal towers provide a fuller listening experience than the Sierra 2. Maybe someone could comment about these 3 models again. Thanks

[Sivar]

I have had a hard time understanding the differences between the NrT towers, Raal towers and the Sierra 2 with Raal, in a previous post the statement was made "the Towers RAAL and Horizon RAAL are even more transparent and even more resolving than the Sierra 2". Is that because the tower's have a separate midrange driver?

It sounds like you are asking an objective question but using subjective evidence such as use of the word, "fuller."
The towers:

Are more efficient. At the same power, they should sound about twice as loud based on their formal specs.
Have higher power handling capability, so they can accept more power while also sounding louder at the same level of power.
Are larger and more expensive.
Have a "full size" ribbon tweeter, whereas the Sierra 2's have a custom-made small version. (There are larger RAAL ribbons than even the Towers').
Have a dedicated midrange driver.


How much does the dedicated midrange matter?
In theory (formal, not conversational use of "theory") the single mid/woofer of the Sierra 2 will lose midrange clarity while playing bass. this is for a variety of reasons.
A midrange should resolve this issue by concerning itself only with mids while the two dedicated woofers concern themselves only with bass.

In practice, I doubt the clarity is much better, because it is excellent on the Sierra 2, as one would expect from a truly high-end speaker.

My doubt is based on experience with the Sierra 2, but not the towers (my towers arrive tomorrow). I would be most surprised if I hear a stunning difference in clarity because, if I do, that means the Sierra 2's are significantly distorting mids.

[kclb1]

Thanks for the explanation, please let me know through this topic if you notice a big difference in midrange clarity with your new towers compared to your Sierra 2's.

[mcatucci]

Hello Sierra 2 owners. I am looking for some help and suggestions. I have read through all 140 pages of this thread over the last 4 days and had no idea the 2's were even a reality until I visited the site for another reason last week. I purchased the Sierra NrT's around 2.5 years ago and love them. Like many of you they are the best speakers I have ever owned and they seriously continue to bring a smile to my face almost weekly. I listen to music everyday for an hour or so...sometimes longer. I have to admit the Sierra 2's have really got me thinking of doing something I thought I never would: get rid of my NrT'S.

My application for these speakers is 100% audiophile quality music listening. They will never see a home theater or any other application other than 2 channel Hi-rez downloads, CD's and mostly vinyl. So with that said, will the 2's offer a nice leap over the NrT's? I actually came by Ascend to price the towers and that is when I discovered the Sierra 2. I cannot afford the Raal tower, but thought for music maybe the NrT tower would be a better choice. I'd like to hear what some of you think and Dave as well if time permits. For straight 2 channel music would you recommend the 2's or the NrT tower?

Lastly, I should mention my room size is roughly 9 x 13 and it is a home office. My current speakers sit on stands roughly a foot away from the wall and a foot away on the sides. The front of my desk is 3 feet from the speakers and my listening position is 5 feet away while sitting at the desk. So maybe towers would not be a good choice here as the desk will block the bottom half of the towers from my view. I am not sure if that affects sound or not?

Any help or advice on the right choice is REALLY appreciated.

Merry Christmas!

[essneff]

If you already have the Sierra 1's just upgrade the 1's to the Sierra 2 configuration.

[FirstReflect]

The Sierra-2 most definitely sound different than the Sierra-1 NrT. In a blind listening comparison, I have no doubt at all that most people would be able to consistently tell them apart.

Now, will that difference cause you to prefer the Sierra-2 or consider them "better" than the Sierra-1 NrT? In my opinions, yes. The faster transient response and lower residual energy of the Sierra-2 give them a sense of greater realism, in my experience. It depends on the recording, but there are more instances where the Sierra-2 fool me into thinking that I am not even listening to speakers, but rather that it is a real live person or instrument making sound in front of me. With the Sierra-1 NrT, I would rarely be fooled, and I could pretty much always tell that the sound was coming from a speaker. So I personally consider the Sierra-2 superior in their sound reproduction.

If you already have Sierra-1 NrT speakers, and you cannot afford the RAAL upgraded Towers, then the Sierra-2 Upgrade Kit is certainly the way to go: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AD&Product_Code=7SR2UPG

The Sierra-2 use the exact same cabinet as the Sierra-1 and Sierra-1 NrT. Dave F. went to great lengths and effort to make that the case. The instructions on how to do the upgrade are right here: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?5545-Sierra-2-Upgrade-instructions-with-video!

It is not difficult at all. You are swapping out both drivers and the crossover. The cabinet, port, and binding posts remain unchanged.

As for getting the absolute best sound quality from your 2-channel only setup, all that you need in addition to the Sierra-2 Upgrade Kits is a pair of excellent subwoofers. Over on the AV Rant Podcast, Tom and I talk almost every episode about the importance of bass management, using 2 or 4 subwoofers, and positioning those subwoofers optimally within your room.

But since many people - especially 2-channel only listeners - still don't believe us, here is another podcast with the director of the Home Acoustics Alliance where they describe all the same things that Tom and I consistently repeat.

I loved one way that Gerry Lemay described the use of subwoofers in a 2-channel only setup, which is that you're just bi-amping your speakers! Many, many 2-channel only fans have zero problem with bi-amping their speakers, and yet they balk whenever subwoofers are suggested. So if it helps to get anyone over the mental hurdle, I love just thinking of adding a pair of subwoofers to a pair of bookshelf speakers as bi-amplifying a pair of full range speakers! That really is all you're doing.

However, by having those subwoofer drivers separate boxes, you also have the freedom to place them in the best spots, rather than being forced to only ever have them directly below the midrange and treble drivers. As we describe on AV Rant, and as Gerry Lemay describes there on that Home Theater Geeks episode, deep bass sound waves are so long that they exceed the dimensions of rooms typically found in homes. In a 9 x 13 room, they will definitely be exceeding your room's dimensions. As a result, you are NEVER hearing direct sound in the deep bass. You are only ever hearing reflected sound. So the notion of needing the bass drivers to be directly in line with the midrange and treble drivers goes right out the window. Instead, the bass drivers need to be located within the room so that the reflected sound you are hearing is smooth, even, and free from massive peaks and nulls that are created when the reflected sound waves bounce back the way they came and either double up or cancel out on top of themselves.

In the end, what you want to do is position at least 2 subwoofers so that they are directly opposite one another across the room - as in, the mid-points of opposing walls (either the front wall and back wall, or the two side walls), or just otherwise opposite one another across the room (one in the front left corner, the second in the rear right corner. Or one on the front wall 3 feet in from the left wall, one on the rear wall 3 feet in from the right wall). By having two subwoofers across the room from one another, you create the most even distribution of deep bass sound waves, and that prevents the formation of these gigantic peaks and nulls in certain seating locations within your room.

Since yours is a small room and you are only concerned with music listening, I would recommend the HSU Research STF-2 subwoofers: http://hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html

A pair of those mated to the Sierra-2 speakers will give you detail and extension that even the Towers RAAL (all by themselves) would not be able to reproduce. The issue is not how low or loud the Towers RAAL can play on their own, the issue is placement within the room. If the Towers are handling all frequencies on their own, you cannot position the bass drivers optimally within the room. They are stuck directly below the midrange and treble drivers, and they are both at the front of your room. There's no way around that.

But by bi-amplifying your speakers and having the bass drivers in separate cabinets, you are free to position those bass drivers where they will perform the best in your room, and you also free up your amplifier to only have to produce the midrange and treble frequencies, which will be handled superbly by the Sierra-2 bookshelf speakers.

Best of luck, and please come back and let us know how it all turns out for you!

- Rob H.

[mcatucci]

That's for the response so far gentlemen, especially the extent of yours Rob -much appreciated. I have a Velodyne Impact 12 sitting around that could be used with the Sierra 2. Is it critical to match the subs up or could I use my Velodyne with one of the HSU's you recommended?

[Kisakuku]

Is it critical to match the subs up or could I use my Velodyne with one of the HSU's you recommended?

Short answer - yes, go with two identical subs.

[Sivar]

I placed a home theater order (two Sierra 2's, two RAAL towers, and other stuff). The Sierra 2's came first. For my thoughts on them, see my review in the reviews forum.

Until the towers came, I was worried that I had wasted money on the towers -- the Sierra 2's sound as close to perfect as I could imagine. Then the towers came.

I haven't written a tower review yet, but I remember back to a thread where I asked why the towers do not use the new woven polypropylene woofers since I found them so impressive. The towers come with two tiny 5.25" woofers, whereas the Sierra 2's come with a 6" woofers. The extra .75 inches can make a significant difference when you consider that it's an area calculation, so you use radius squared.

Then I heard the towers and thought, "...Oh. I get it" (Actually my response was a bit different. Hopefully I'll get time soon to write a proper review).

In any case, I'll summarize by saying that in my opinion, the towers are far better for 2-channel music, and I'd probably take the non-RAAL towers over the Sierra 2. Mids are still the most important range, and the towers have a dedicated mid driver.
It isn't the mid though -- the towers bass is kind of shocking. I don't think they need a sub at all except for certain kinds of music (organ music played on a true full-rack organ or other bassy music).

So, you can do the same with a subwoofer, right? Sure, but the towers and their bass sound much more integrated to me. While I thought I had the subs positioned and set up well, the bass from the towers sounds more integrated. I don't want to use any vague audiophile BS terminology, but I'll just say that I prefer 2-channel music in "direct" mode, with subwoofers disabled. It just sounds better. The Sierra 1 and 2 are a great speaker, but they just don't have the range that the towers have.

[FirstReflect]

The problem I have with recommending using only the Towers and no subwoofers is that what you hear in the bass is a combination of what the speakers (or subwoofers) put out into the room and the reflections of the room itself.

Sivar seems to have lucked out in his particular room. I have three Horizon RAAL speakers, which perform very similarly to the Towers RAAL. Out in my living room, I feel similarly to Sivar - the bass really, really impressed me coming from just the Horizon RAAL speakers all by themselves. But in my smaller theatre room (about 12 x 13), the bass performance coming from only the Horizon RAAL on their own was not the same. My Center Horizon RAAL has a huge suck out at my seat right at about 70Hz. And my Left and Right Horizon RAAL speakers have either large dips or large humps in the 50-60Hz range, depending on which of my three seats I'm using.

What I am hearing in my theatre room is NOT THE FAULT OF THE SPEAKERS. This is the problem with attributing bass reproduction to only the speakers themselves. It changes drastically from room to room, setup to setup, even seat to seat.

Multiple subwoofers - properly positioned within the room (ie. across the room from one another) - is the only way to be sure that regardless of the room, regardless of the setup, and regardless of the seat, you'll hear smooth, even, uniform bass.

I'm happy for Sivar that the Towers are giving him all the bass he wants in his particular setup. But I can't agree with the advice that the Towers are responsible for what you ultimately hear in terms of the bass. The Towers can put the energy out into the room - they're nice a linear down to about 40Hz, and have useable output into the low 30's. But once that energy leaves the face of the speakers, it becomes the room's responsibility, and you cannot attribute what you hear to the speakers alone. It's the speakers PLUS the room.

For what it's worth, I do find the Towers RAAL to still be the superior speakers to the Sierra-2. I've written as much in my own reviews on this forum. But if Sivar is finding the bass from the Towers alone to be superior to what his subwoofers used to sound like, that indicates that the subwoofers are not optimally placed within his room, NOT that the Towers RAAL will sound better in the bass in every instance.

- Rob H.

[mcatucci]

I keep working on ways to just suck it up and go for the Raal towers, but the wife won't let me touch the bank account, so it would mean parting with a rifle or two from my collection, but they sit in a safe all year whereas the speakers are used everyday. So I'm starting to convince myself ;-)

That said is there anything that negatively affects towers such as proximity to furniture or other objects in a room where I may have to dismiss them as a potential option? I have complete line of sight to the NrT speakers, but the towers would be hidden somewhat by my desk. I would not be able to see the bottom third of the towers. Not sure if this has an adverse effect on what I will hear. The left tower would have nothing in front of it, however the right tower would have a solid wooden printer cabinet 2.5 feet directly in front of it, I could toe it in a bit but my metal desk is there, roughly 4 feet away.

[natetg57]

I keep working on ways to just suck it up and go for the Raal towers, but the wife won't let me touch the bank account, so it would mean parting with a rifle or two from my collection, but they sit in a safe all year whereas the speakers are used everyday. So I'm starting to convince myself ;-)

That said is there anything that negatively affects towers such as proximity to furniture or other objects in a room where I may have to dismiss them as a potential option? I have complete line of sight to the NrT speakers, but the towers would be hidden somewhat by my desk. I would not be able to see the bottom third of the towers. Not sure if this has an adverse effect on what I will hear. The left tower would have nothing in front of it, however the right tower would have a solid wooden printer cabinet 2.5 feet directly in front of it, I could toe it in a bit but my metal desk is there, roughly 4 feet away.

My guess would be that you would be better off going with the Sierra-2 upgrade. You really want a direct line of sight to the drivers, plus that seems to be a little too close. Can you post a picture of your current setup?

[mcatucci]

Don't mind the room. It is a work in progress and right now everyone is using to for wrapping gifts, etc . I hung the sound board up to see if it offered any improvement -it did. Now I have to cover them in fabric and finish them up nicer. I tried to give you all views...

1152
1153

[mcatucci]

1154


1155


1156

[LogPlot]

Could be. The Emotivas are not my reference - just the speakers the S2s replaced. My main system is very high performance, as are my headphones, and I try to compare to how real instruments sound. There is a lot to like about the S2s. At the moment, I am satisfied to 'fault' the installation. I would like to roll-off driving the very low end to give the woofers a break on full range material, though I doubt that is the cause of the tonal (im)balance. As I said, I should be able to tweak the balance with equalization, if necessary.

Were you able to do EQ and solve the thinness? I am just curious. Thanks.

[mcatucci]

Dave,
Any update on lead times for the B stock 2's? Order was placed middle of last week? Have not received UPS yet and I am anxious! ;)

Thanks!
Mike

[davef]

Dave,
Any update on lead times for the B stock 2's? Order was placed middle of last week? Have not received UPS yet and I am anxious! ;)

Thanks!
Mike

Thanks for your patience. I don't know where your order stands (best to call and speak with Dina), but we are making excellent progress at getting through a massive backorder. A few more days and we should be caught up.

[ConcreteRooster]

Reviving and oldish thread, hope no one minds... I skimmed over this thread, but didn't see any info about the crossover design of the Sierra-2. For example, crossover frequency, kind of slopes used, etc. Just curious, though I understand this might be the kind of thing Dave doesn't want to share.

Another curiosity, if it's possible: do you happen to have impulse response and/or step response graphs for the Sierra-2? See Measuring Loudspeakers, Part Two (http://www.stereophile.com/features/100/index.html#1I0X7LKxC4tJZzoX.97) (John Atkinson, Stereophile, Dec 14, 1998).

I've had my eye on these for a while now. The application would be nearfield desktop speakers. It's a 60-inch wide desk, and I sit about three to four feet from each speaker. I saw at least one other thread on this forum where someone asked about such an application for the Sierra-2, and the feedback was positive (sorry, don't have the link handy). I'm thinking that time and phase coherency are particularly important in a nearfield application like this, hence the questions about impulse and step response---which speak to driver integration. I'm currently using single full-range drivers (Markaudio Alpair 7.3) for this application, where one of the main advantages is that driver integration is a non-issue. And at least as far as what I've read on the Internet (caveat emptor!), ideal time and phase alignment leads to exceptional imaging.

Thanks!

[Mag_Neato]

Reviving and oldish thread, hope no one minds... I skimmed over this thread, but didn't see any info about the crossover design of the Sierra-2. For example, crossover frequency, kind of slopes used, etc. Just curious, though I understand this might be the kind of thing Dave doesn't want to share.

Another curiosity, if it's possible: do you happen to have impulse response and/or step response graphs for the Sierra-2? See Measuring Loudspeakers, Part Two (http://www.stereophile.com/features/100/index.html#1I0X7LKxC4tJZzoX.97) (John Atkinson, Stereophile, Dec 14, 1998).

I've had my eye on these for a while now. The application would be nearfield desktop speakers. It's a 60-inch wide desk, and I sit about three to four feet from each speaker. I saw at least one other thread on this forum where someone asked about such an application for the Sierra-2, and the feedback was positive (sorry, don't have the link handy). I'm thinking that time and phase coherency are particularly important in a nearfield application like this, hence the questions about impulse and step response---which speak to driver integration. I'm currently using single full-range drivers (Markaudio Alpair 7.3) for this application, where one of the main advantages is that driver integration is a non-issue. And at least as far as what I've read on the Internet (caveat emptor!), ideal time and phase alignment leads to exceptional imaging.

Thanks!

Have you looked at the Measurements page of the Sierra-2 product pages in the loudspeakers section of the Ascend website? Not sure if the items you are asking about are included there or not. I am sure there are proprietary design parameters which Dave would not want to publish. I know that Ascend shut down for their annual summer holiday and I'm not sure when they will reopen, but it must be soon.

If you email Ascend with your questions they will get back to you, but I'm sure they have a few emails to get through once they are back in office.

[davef]

Reviving and oldish thread, hope no one minds... I skimmed over this thread, but didn't see any info about the crossover design of the Sierra-2. For example, crossover frequency, kind of slopes used, etc. Just curious, though I understand this might be the kind of thing Dave doesn't want to share.

Another curiosity, if it's possible: do you happen to have impulse response and/or step response graphs for the Sierra-2? See Measuring Loudspeakers, Part Two (http://www.stereophile.com/features/100/index.html#1I0X7LKxC4tJZzoX.97) (John Atkinson, Stereophile, Dec 14, 1998).

I've had my eye on these for a while now. The application would be nearfield desktop speakers. It's a 60-inch wide desk, and I sit about three to four feet from each speaker. I saw at least one other thread on this forum where someone asked about such an application for the Sierra-2, and the feedback was positive (sorry, don't have the link handy). I'm thinking that time and phase coherency are particularly important in a nearfield application like this, hence the questions about impulse and step response---which speak to driver integration. I'm currently using single full-range drivers (Markaudio Alpair 7.3) for this application, where one of the main advantages is that driver integration is a non-issue. And at least as far as what I've read on the Internet (caveat emptor!), ideal time and phase alignment leads to exceptional imaging.

Thanks!

Hi CR,

Welcome to the forum! Tight driver integration is extremely high priority for all our designs and the Sierra-2 make for wonderful nearfield desktop monitors. We have many customers doing using them for this purpose and I have a set that I use in my home office at about 18" distances.

The measurement page for the Sierra-2 shows both an ETC plot and a CSD plot. The ETC plot is basically the same measurement as an impulse response, just shown with a different scaling. The CSD plot also shows the information you are looking for, but with added information as it shows the transient accuracy at a particular frequency.

Both of these graphs indicate phenomenal time and phase coherency. In fact, if transient accuracy is important to you, it is nearly impossible to do better than the ribbons we use...

[Sivar]

Both of these graphs indicate phenomenal time and phase coherency. In fact, if transient accuracy is important to you, it is nearly impossible to do better than the ribbons we use...
While no one or two (or N) metrics tell the whole story, I learned that impulse response and (and cumulative spectral decay) are among the useful measurements. When I saw those of the Sierra 2 and Sierra Tower with RAAL, both of which I ended up buying, it was absolutely in a different class than everything else I had seen. It's like other nice speakers were sports cars and the RAAL was a space shuttle. Even the highest-end speakers can't campare (to these measurements, not necessarily in overall performance). Compare with measurements for the Magico Q7 MKII and Focal's Grand Utopia BE, then compare price. It's a fun exercise.

[ConcreteRooster]

Welcome to the forum! Tight driver integration is extremely high priority for all our designs and the Sierra-2 make for wonderful nearfield desktop monitors. We have many customers doing using them for this purpose and I have a set that I use in my home office at about 18" distances.

The measurement page for the Sierra-2 shows both an ETC plot and a CSD plot. The ETC plot is basically the same measurement as an impulse response, just shown with a different scaling. The CSD plot also shows the information you are looking for, but with added information as it shows the transient accuracy at a particular frequency.

Both of these graphs indicate phenomenal time and phase coherency. In fact, if transient accuracy is important to you, it is nearly impossible to do better than the ribbons we use...


Dave, thanks for the quick and helpful reply! I had a hunch the existing measurement graphs had the info, just presented a bit differently. Also, thank you in general for all the candid answers to everyone else's questions throughout this thread, very informative. I'm an "armchair" DIY'er---no real technical expertise, but I like putting kit-type speakers and electronics together, and hopefully learn something along the way.



While no one or two (or N) metrics tell the whole story, I learned that impulse response and (and cumulative spectral decay) are among the useful measurements. When I saw those of the Sierra 2 and Sierra Tower with RAAL, both of which I ended up buying, it was absolutely in a different class than everything else I had seen. It's like other nice speakers were sports cars and the RAAL was a space shuttle. Even the highest-end speakers can't campare (to these measurements, not necessarily in overall performance). Compare with measurements for the Magico Q7 MKII and Focal's Grand Utopia BE, then compare price. It's a fun exercise.


Indeed, being a regular reader over at diyaudio.com, they are endlessly debating measurements versus subjective sound quality. I don't have enough experience to take a side in that argument, but given what I do know, the Sierra 2's measurements look crazy good! Likewise, there's no shortage of positive subjective impressions. I'm having trouble finding the warts. :)

Thanks again!

[andrey]

what is the distance from the ground to the tweeter center on S2s and Towers? AFAIK, the tweeters of rear and surround S2s shall be aligned to the ear level @ MLP, so I want to pick the right stand with the right height, please correct me if i'm wrong and let me know if you have this info..

[davef]

what is the distance from the ground to the tweeter center on S2s and Towers? AFAIK, the tweeters of rear and surround S2s shall be aligned to the ear level @ MLP, so I want to pick the right stand with the right height, please correct me if i'm wrong and let me know if you have this info..

The center of the Sierra-2 tweeter is 11.5" from the bottom of the cabinet.

Hope this helps!

[jackgr@acm.org]

A week ago, I bought a pair of Sierra 2s. I'm blown away by the sound. So much, that I now want to go all in on Ascend, and buy the RAAL towers, instead. Unfortunately, I bought them through MassDrop, so they cannot be returned( (there's a lesson in that), and I don't have enough budget to keep both. I'm therefore thinking that I'll sell them. Can someone recommend a good place to do that, where people are familiar with Sierras?

[ematthews]

A week ago, I bought a pair of Sierra 2s. I'm blown away by the sound. So much, that I now want to go all in on Ascend, and buy the RAAL towers, instead. Unfortunately, I bought them through MassDrop, so they cannot be returned( (there's a lesson in that), and I don't have enough budget to keep both. I'm therefore thinking that I'll sell them. Can someone recommend a good place to do that, where people are familiar with Sierras?

Not so sure you should do this. I sold my 2's and purchased the RAAL towers. With the new Rymik dual 8 sub, you could fill the upper mid bass.
I am thinking of selling my RAAL towers and buying the Sierra 2's again with a new sub.... I purchased the wrong color towers too is what is pushing me to do this.


Sold my bookshelves on the Audioholics sales forum.

[curtis]

Not so sure you should do this. I sold my 2's and purchased the RAAL towers. With the new Rymik dual 8 sub, you could fill the upper mid bass.

But you would lose the midrange detail and transparency you get with the dedicated mid on the Towers.

[ematthews]

But you would lose the midrange detail and transparency you get with the dedicated mid on the Towers.

Your right.. I for some reason absolutely loved the way my natural bamboo Sierra 2's looked on my speaker stands...
Off topic.... Anyway to get the RAAL towers finish redone?

[davef]

A week ago, I bought a pair of Sierra 2s. I'm blown away by the sound. So much, that I now want to go all in on Ascend, and buy the RAAL towers, instead. Unfortunately, I bought them through MassDrop, so they cannot be returned( (there's a lesson in that), and I don't have enough budget to keep both. I'm therefore thinking that I'll sell them. Can someone recommend a good place to do that, where people are familiar with Sierras?

Hi Jack,

Happy to hear that you are enjoying the 2's! Yeah -- if you purchased from Massdrop, you are subject to their terms and I don't believe they offer returns or exchanges. They purchase a bulk quantity from us and our involvement typically ends at that point.

That said, send me an email or private message and we can discuss the possibility of a trade-up -- assuming you have kept the speakers in like-new condition. We have had many customers eventually upgrade from the 2's to the towers, definitely a worthwhile upgrade.

[davef]

Your right.. I for some reason absolutely loved the way my natural bamboo Sierra 2's looked on my speaker stands...
Off topic.... Anyway to get the RAAL towers finish redone?

What finish do you have? I am a fan of the natural finish as well - especially the US-Made natural finish cabinets.

[ematthews]

What finish do you have? I am a fan of the natural finish as well - especially the US-Made natural finish cabinets.

The Satin Espresso. Would love to get the cabinet redone in either black or natural..

[davef]

The Satin Espresso. Would love to get the cabinet redone in either black or natural..

Refinishing in black matte can be done, but refinishing in natural or black bamboo is not going to be cheap as the cabinets must be rubbed down with a solvent to remove the dyes (several times) and then sanded and refinished.

Email me and I can get some quotes for you.

Surprised that you don't like the espresso, that is the most popular finish.

[ematthews]

Refinishing in black matte can be done, but refinishing in natural or black bamboo is not going to be cheap as the cabinets must be rubbed down with a solvent to remove the dyes (several times) and then sanded and refinished.

Email me and I can get some quotes for you.

Surprised that you don't like the espresso, that is the most popular finish.

Dave. I love the espresso... I just like the natural better and black would match all the decor in the room. It really isn't to big a deal. It might be easier just buying another set. I will email you for more info. On a side note, I do need to buy some bookshelves for another room. It won't be the 2's however as it's just for a smaller AVR set up.

[dtsequoia]

Why not just buy the cabinets you want alone (no components) and see if you could send the other set (satin expression) back?

[ematthews]

Why not just buy the cabinets you want alone (no components) and see if you could send the other set (satin expression) back?

That's an idea... I wonder if it's an option. Thanks

[RMW]

First post here. Just wanted to share my experience thus far with my Sierra 2's that I received a couple of weeks ago.

Even though I have far more audio equipment than any one person should have, I decided to pull the trigger on these when I saw the B-stock were available for Black Friday. I really wanted to try the Raal after reading all the hype around it in DIY circles (and elsewhere). I ordered a pair in Natural, and they are very nice looking. I read a post from Dave where he stated most people who buy B-stock can't figure out why they are not A-stock, and I will confirm this. To me, they look flawless.

Right now I have these hooked up to a Bottlehead SET amp, pumping out a whopping 3.5 watts per channel. ;-) I am actually surprised how loud these get in my medium sized room on such modest power. I've also tried them on an old Rotel amp that is quite a beast. While they play louder on the Rotel, to my ears they sound far better with the tubes, though the bass does suffer a bit. I already have my sights set on the new BH monoblocks that I think will be a bit better of a match for the Sierra's.

I've got maybe 30-40 hours on them so far, and they already sound pretty spectacular. I have them in a spare, untreated room - hardwood floors, minimal window treatments, bare walls. Definitely not an ideal room, but they are still very euphonic. You can sit and listen to them forever and don't get a hint of fatigue - the Raal is just so smooth. They are certainly up there with the best monitors I've bought/built over the years. It'll be interesting to see how can sound in a proper room with some more watts behind them! I'll post more detailed listening impressions when I've got that straightened out.

Thanks,
Ryan

[davef]

First post here. Just wanted to share my experience thus far with my Sierra 2's that I received a couple of weeks ago.

Even though I have far more audio equipment than any one person should have, I decided to pull the trigger on these when I saw the B-stock were available for Black Friday. I really wanted to try the Raal after reading all the hype around it in DIY circles (and elsewhere). I ordered a pair in Natural, and they are very nice looking. I read a post from Dave where he stated most people who buy B-stock can't figure out why they are not A-stock, and I will confirm this. To me, they look flawless.

Right now I have these hooked up to a Bottlehead SET amp, pumping out a whopping 3.5 watts per channel. ;-) I am actually surprised how loud these get in my medium sized room on such modest power. I've also tried them on an old Rotel amp that is quite a beast. While they play louder on the Rotel, to my ears they sound far better with the tubes, though the bass does suffer a bit. I already have my sights set on the new BH monoblocks that I think will be a bit better of a match for the Sierra's.

I've got maybe 30-40 hours on them so far, and they already sound pretty spectacular. I have them in a spare, untreated room - hardwood floors, minimal window treatments, bare walls. Definitely not an ideal room, but they are still very euphonic. You can sit and listen to them forever and don't get a hint of fatigue - the Raal is just so smooth. They are certainly up there with the best monitors I've bought/built over the years. It'll be interesting to see how can sound in a proper room with some more watts behind them! I'll post more detailed listening impressions when I've got that straightened out.

Thanks,
Ryan

Thanks Ryan -- I am very pleased to hear that you are enjoying the Sierra-2!!!

[Mag_Neato]

All we need now are Kryptonite caps in the crossover.

What a SUPER idea!!:cool:

[mikesiskav]

After several years of trying other speakers, I've finally made way back to Ascend. I was one of the very first people to purchase the Sierra 1 when they first came out. I was very happy with them, although after a couple years I felt the need for a little more detail in the highs. I ended up switching to some Salk bookshelf speakers which I've had now for a couple years (going to be selling soon). I also have some Martin Logan Frescos (planar magnetic speakers). The Frescos have very detailed highs and mids, but the bass is non-existent and the cabinet construction is pretty flimsy.

I don't know why I waited so long to try the Sierra 2, but I'm so glad I finally did. I auditioned the Sierra 2 along with the Raal towers at Ascend's showroom. The towers were awesome, but the Sierra 2 were not far behind at all. Since the towers are backordered and don't come in piano black, I decided to go with the Sierra 2.

Now that I have them home hooked up to my Onkyo SR805 along with my new Rythmik F8, I can't stop listening to music. As soon as I get home from work, the music is on till I go to sleep. Everything about the Sierra 2 is just amazing. The bass is solid, tight and textured, the highs have so much air and detail, yet smooth at the same time, and the mids are just right.

I do custom installation for audio/video equipment and I have access to many brands of speakers at wholesale prices including Klipsch, Martin Logan, JBL, Revel, etc... And even at my discounted prices there is nothing I would purchase over the Sierra 2.

[Stump909]

Now that I have them home hooked up to my Onkyo SR805 along with my new Rythmik F8, I can't stop listening to music. As soon as I get home from work, the music is on till I go to sleep. Everything about the Sierra 2 is just amazing. The bass is solid, tight and textured, the highs have so much air and detail, yet smooth at the same time, and the mids are just right.



I know the feeling all too well. Sadly, my set have seen more use in film/television than music as of late :(. However, musical scores come out beautifully (Mr. Robot's is solid). I'm actually in the market for a sub at the moment. What led you to the F8? I'm currently running an LV12R in my home-theater and have few complaints.

[mikesiskav]

I know the feeling all too well. Sadly, my set have seen more use in film/television than music as of late :(. However, musical scores come out beautifully (Mr. Robot's is solid). I'm actually in the market for a sub at the moment. What led you to the F8? I'm currently running an LV12R in my home-theater and have few complaints.

I love my F8. I think it was Dave who turned me on to it. I know he runs 2 of them in his personal setup along with the towers. I really like the small footprint and the bass quality and detail is among the best I've ever heard, equal to or better than the JL F112 I used to have. The F8 probably has less maximum output than the JL, but it's more than loud enough for my needs.

[daleherman]

Just received some B-stock Sierra-2s. First, YMMV, but I can't see a defect? First listen using Rythmik E15HP, crossed at 60Hz, excellent imaging, surprising mid-bass slam. Mids - I am still evaluating. Overall, seems a bit bright. Meaning that mid-highs (voices) seem a bit too much BUT!, I am used to dome fabric tweeters and this is a new room. In my other room, I have Linkwitz LX521. On the LX521, the mids seem too laid back, but the mid- and low bass are crazy good.
I should need increased highs (54yr), so I will run REW and see how much the reverb in the room is affecting the sound...
However, I am very happy so far!!!!

[goldark]

After several years of trying other speakers, I've finally made way back to Ascend. I was one of the very first people to purchase the Sierra 1 when they first came out. I was very happy with them, although after a couple years I felt the need for a little more detail in the highs. I ended up switching to some Salk bookshelf speakers which I've had now for a couple years (going to be selling soon). I also have some Martin Logan Frescos (planar magnetic speakers). The Frescos have very detailed highs and mids, but the bass is non-existent and the cabinet construction is pretty flimsy.

I don't know why I waited so long to try the Sierra 2, but I'm so glad I finally did. I auditioned the Sierra 2 along with the Raal towers at Ascend's showroom. The towers were awesome, but the Sierra 2 were not far behind at all. Since the towers are backordered and don't come in piano black, I decided to go with the Sierra 2.

Now that I have them home hooked up to my Onkyo SR805 along with my new Rythmik F8, I can't stop listening to music. As soon as I get home from work, the music is on till I go to sleep. Everything about the Sierra 2 is just amazing. The bass is solid, tight and textured, the highs have so much air and detail, yet smooth at the same time, and the mids are just right.

I do custom installation for audio/video equipment and I have access to many brands of speakers at wholesale prices including Klipsch, Martin Logan, JBL, Revel, etc... And even at my discounted prices there is nothing I would purchase over the Sierra 2.

Can you compare the Sierra 2's sound with both the Salk and Martin Logan speakers? Which model were the Salks?

[mikesiskav]

Can you compare the Sierra 2's sound with both the Salk and Martin Logan speakers? Which model were the Salks?

The Salks are the Song Surround I, a very fine speaker. It's got a smooth, slightly warmer sound. The tweeter is quite detailed for a soft dome tweeter. The Sierra 2 beats the Song in pretty much every category IMO. The bass is deeper, and has more impact. I think this has to do with both the Curv woofer as well as the very solid bamboo cabinet. For high frequencies, I don't think any soft dome tweeter can compare to the RAAL. They're just so crystal clear. You can hear every fine little detail in the music, but they never sound harsh or fatiguing.

The Martin Logan Frescos have very clear midrange and high frequencies on axis thanks to the planar magnetic drivers. Because of they're slim design, however, the bass is pretty much non-existent and the cabinet is made out of a very thin composite material which vibrates like crazy. The off axis response of the tweeter is pretty poor as well. You can really hear a big difference in sound quality when you stand up and walk around the room. The Sierra 2, on the other hand, has excellent off axis response. I was really surprised when I got up and walked to the kitchen, just how clear the Sierra 2 still sounded.

So in summary, I'd say the Sierra 2 is a worthwhile upgrade from both of these speakers. I think they'll be staying with me for a very long time.

[daleherman]

Spent lots of time yesterday optimizing the speaker placement and listening position. I realized several things. I was way out of the equilateral triangle (by several feet). One speaker was way too close to a wall. I put the oriental rug back in the room. Now we are talking :) Imaging was superb. I was most surprised by the mid-bass and mid range. Great speed and impact. The mids were just about perfect. Not too forward, not too laid back. Not overly lush, not too bright. Tonality, and airiness were spot on. Especially notable in female vocals where notes linger on their tongue. No extra sibiliance. Hmmm, I hate to admit, but besides for low bass slamm and ultimate high sound level dynamics, these clearly beat my LX521's on this type of music. The LX521's do still have an advantage on complex orchestral music.
Listened to all of my favorite blues' singers. I had missed this level of intimacy. I swear that I can hear skin on strings with the slide guitar of Muddy Waters.

My wife and I spent the evening in bed reading, but kept putting the book down just to listen to the music. Luckily, she appreciates sound quality and thanked me (I am lucky!) for providing such good sounding tunes into the bedroom. I am tempted to go RAAL Towers for the main room...

[mikesiskav]

Glad to hear that a few tweaks to the system made a difference for you. I had a similar experience with my system. I noticed that the imaging for vocals was slightly to the left of center. I couldn't figure out why. I kept checking the levels and they were correct. Then I got out my laser measure tool and it turns out that my right speaker was about 3 inches further away from me than the left. I moved the right speaker forward 3 inches and Bam, the imaging was dead center.

[mikesiskav]

I'm loving the Sierra-2s so much, I just ordered another pair for my surrounds!

[tme110]

sorry if this is the wrong thread. I have the S-2's, horrizon and towers w/ RAAL. Very happy with them and my plan was to have this speakers for the next decade or so (and still will). But I just have this strange itch to just try something else. I've seen a few of the comparisons close to this come up but not the same - anyone ever compare the S-2 to the Harbeth 30.1? I've searched all over the net for someone talking about both speakers but it didn't come up.

[sludgeogre]

sorry if this is the wrong thread. I have the S-2's, horrizon and towers w/ RAAL. Very happy with them and my plan was to have this speakers for the next decade or so (and still will). But I just have this strange itch to just try something else. I've seen a few of the comparisons close to this come up but not the same - anyone ever compare the S-2 to the Harbeth 30.1? I've searched all over the net for someone talking about both speakers but it didn't come up.

It's really rare to find the Sierra speakers compared to anything else. I think most people that buy them never upgrade. All I can say is that the Sierra speakers are going to be better speakers than almost anything below $5k since most other companies are spending half that cost on marketing and sales forces trying to push speakers that can't stack up to Dave's.

[davef]

sorry if this is the wrong thread. I have the S-2's, horrizon and towers w/ RAAL. Very happy with them and my plan was to have this speakers for the next decade or so (and still will). But I just have this strange itch to just try something else. I've seen a few of the comparisons close to this come up but not the same - anyone ever compare the S-2 to the Harbeth 30.1? I've searched all over the net for someone talking about both speakers but it didn't come up.

From a component standpoint, the Sierra-1 is the speaker I would put up against the 30.1 - and even at 1/6th price, I am confident the Sierra-1 would fair extremely well. The 30.1 is based on the Rogers LS5/9 and uses a mid-level SEAS soft dome tweeter. Assuming Harbeth was successful in reproducing the original response, it will have similar performance to our Sierra-1, although the Sierra-1 (even with a smaller cabinet) will have deeper bass...

I don't know of any soft dome tweeter at any price that can compare to a RAAL ribbon tweeter with regard to detail, timbre accuracy, smoothness and overall musicality.

[tme110]

An update in case anyone was interested. I am now powering my S2's with a 25 watt amp. I wasn't sure how it was going to turn out but they sound great, maybe even better than my main system (with a power amp).



BTW, I started with a pair of 200's for convenience - new stereo in new room. I've had 200's as surrounds for years but never really ever have just listened to them. I have to say I was impressed. But they still went back as surrounds and moved the S2's in when everything was ready. I could totally see having a nice 2-channel system and using 200's.

[davef]

An update in case anyone was interested. I am now powering my S2's with a 25 watt amp. I wasn't sure how it was going to turn out but they sound great, maybe even better than my main system (with a power amp).



BTW, I started with a pair of 200's for convenience - new stereo in new room. I've had 200's as surrounds for years but never really ever have just listened to them. I have to say I was impressed. But they still went back as surrounds and moved the S2's in when everything was ready. I could totally see having a nice 2-channel system and using 200's.

Happy to hear it is working out well with the low powered amp. Which amp did you go with?

[Mag_Neato]

Happy to hear it is working out well with the low powered amp. Which amp did you go with?

I'm curious as well.

BTW....Dave, what ever became of Virtue Audio and their little amps? If I recall correctly, you had used their mono block amps at one point.

[davef]

I'm curious as well.

BTW....Dave, what ever became of Virtue Audio and their little amps? If I recall correctly, you had used their mono block amps at one point.

Honestly haven't heard from Anthony Krinski in at least 2 years. Website is still up but looks like they are focusing on cables now.

[obrej]

Here's a review that I just posted to Audiogon - hope it's okay to just copy and paste it here - I'm really impressed with my Sierra 2's.

I case anyone is still thinking of getting the Sierra 2's, I'll add my two cents. I've had mine about three weeks, and am very impressed. Right off the bat, I thought they seemed a little bright, but either they've calmed down after burning in, or my ears have adjusted. Part of the adjustment is that they just give you gobs of detail. Probably a little of both. And the bass response in tight, and tuneful - and plenty for me. And probably my favorite thing is they sound fantastic at lower volumes, as I live in a condo.

Associated equipment:
Rega Elex-R amp
Mostly lossless digital files (some 320) from either my iPod classic, or computer.
Peachtree DAC
Highly upgraded Rega RP3 w/ Rega Exact and Rega MKii Fono amp

Speakers I've either owned or auditioned in my home in the past few years:
-Monitor Audio GR10 - pretty amazing paired with a NAD 326 amp - fantastic bang for the buck.
-Epos Elan 15 - seemed kind of dark - didn't keep for long
-Monitor Audio GX100 - nice, but always sounded like you were listening to a speaker - not very transparent.
-Totem Acoustics Rainmaker - way too bright with my amp.
-B&W 685 S2 - Great bang for the buck - great with digital music, but I didn't care too much for them with my vinyl - a little too warm.
-Dynaudio Excite X-12 - the best I had until I got the Sierras - great imaging, tight, punchy bass, and good detail in the highs.
-Dynaudio Focus 160 - hands down the best tweeter (but the Sierra's is very, very close), but the bass response seemed kind of flabby and unfocused.

And it certainly doesn't hurt that the Sierra 2's are drop dead gorgeous. I got the B-stock satin espresso, and I have no idea why they were b-stock, because they look flawless to me - and I saved $300.Hope this helps anyone else thinking about getting a pair - I think they punch way above their weight.

[davef]

Here's a review that I just posted to Audiogon - hope it's okay to just copy and paste it here - I'm really impressed with my Sierra 2's.

I case anyone is still thinking of getting the Sierra 2's, I'll add my two cents. I've had mine about three weeks, and am very impressed. Right off the bat, I thought they seemed a little bright, but either they've calmed down after burning in, or my ears have adjusted. Part of the adjustment is that they just give you gobs of detail. Probably a little of both. And the bass response in tight, and tuneful - and plenty for me. And probably my favorite thing is they sound fantastic at lower volumes, as I live in a condo.

Associated equipment:
Rega Elex-R amp
Mostly lossless digital files (some 320) from either my iPod classic, or computer.
Peachtree DAC
Highly upgraded Rega RP3 w/ Rega Exact and Rega MKii Fono amp

Speakers I've either owned or auditioned in my home in the past few years:
-Monitor Audio GR10 - pretty amazing paired with a NAD 326 amp - fantastic bang for the buck.
-Epos Elan 15 - seemed kind of dark - didn't keep for long
-Monitor Audio GX100 - nice, but always sounded like you were listening to a speaker - not very transparent.
-Totem Acoustics Rainmaker - way too bright with my amp.
-B&W 685 S2 - Great bang for the buck - great with digital music, but I didn't care too much for them with my vinyl - a little too warm.
-Dynaudio Excite X-12 - the best I had until I got the Sierras - great imaging, tight, punchy bass, and good detail in the highs.
-Dynaudio Focus 160 - hands down the best tweeter (but the Sierra's is very, very close), but the bass response seemed kind of flabby and unfocused.

And it certainly doesn't hurt that the Sierra 2's are drop dead gorgeous. I got the B-stock satin espresso, and I have no idea why they were b-stock, because they look flawless to me - and I saved $300.Hope this helps anyone else thinking about getting a pair - I think they punch way above their weight.

Thanks for the wonderful review! Happy to know that you are enjoying the 2's :)

[tme110]

Happy to hear it is working out well with the low powered amp. Which amp did you go with?

It was just a random Italian amp. I couldn't find a single review on it and only one place in the country sells it but I loved the sound of it and took one home. I admit, I've never given much thought to trying out different amps - spend my time wondering about speakers. On a whim one day I tried a small Emotiva amp attached to my receiver and was surprised to notice a difference. Then I tried the amp attacked directly to my OPPO universal player and noticed a large difference - then replaced the emotiva amp with a better one and never looked into it again. Unfortunalely Capital Audio fest got me wondering again (because I wasn't getting 'that sound' ) and tried for something else.

Side question, nothing to do with this thread - I had work done in my place and the contractors somehow dinged up my speakers in a couple places (there was no reason to be anywhere near them) and now the...lack of stain I guess...in those places makes it very obvious - is there a way to fix the satin expresso finish up?

[davef]

Side question, nothing to do with this thread - I had work done in my place and the contractors somehow dinged up my speakers in a couple places (there was no reason to be anywhere near them) and now the...lack of stain I guess...in those places makes it very obvious - is there a way to fix the satin expresso finish up?

Cabinet repair is quite difficult and typically ends up being more costly (due to labor) than just swapping a damaged cabinet with a new one.

[kingcrowing]

Is there a document or page somewhere that lists all of the finish options for the Sierra 2s, their cost, and which ones are made in the US?

[parimento1]

Is it possible to get the Sierra 2 with the dome tweeter from the Towers? Also is it possible to get inserts to screw the speakers to the Sanus stands?

[sludgeogre]

Is it possible to get the Sierra 2 with the dome tweeter from the Towers? Also is it possible to get inserts to screw the speakers to the Sanus stands?

The Sierra-1 is the same cabinet as the 2 and with the NrT upgrade it's the same dome tweeter in the Towers, so all that is different at that point is the woofer, which has to be different from the one in the Sierra 2, because that one was designed to play much higher in order to crossover high enough for the RAAL tweeter. Go with the Sierra-1 with NrT.

I'm not aware of any kind of screwing-in sanus stands. You generally just want to use something like Blu-Tak or just silicone bumpers/feet for setting them on the stand. I've never seen it be necessary to screw a speaker into a stand, nor would I recommend it. Using something squishy (Blu-Tak, silicone, etc) gives isolation to any rattling that might happen.

[davef]

Is it possible to get the Sierra 2 with the dome tweeter from the Towers? Also is it possible to get inserts to screw the speakers to the Sanus stands?

Yes, by request - we have built this for a few different customers over the past few years. As can be imagined, performance is excellent. However, there is no cost savings associated with this speaker - retail pricing would be the exact same as non-sale retail pricing for the standard Sierra-2.

Please feel free to send us an email if you are considering this design.

[davef]

Is there a document or page somewhere that lists all of the finish options for the Sierra 2s, their cost, and which ones are made in the US?

Standard cabinet Sierra-2 finishes:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2/srm2gal.html

Domestic cabinet Sierra-2 finishes are the same as is available for our Sierra Towers:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRT/srtgal.html

[ematthews]

Yes, by request - we have built this for a few different customers over the past few years. As can be imagined, performance is excellent. However, there is no cost savings associated with this speaker - retail pricing would be the exact same as non-sale retail pricing for the standard Sierra-2.

Please feel free to send us an email if you are considering this design.

What is the difference in tweeters? And what is the effect of adding the tower tweeters to the Sierra 2?

[SunByrne]

Wait, I don't understand. What would be the point of getting a Sierra-2 with the NrT tweeter? Wouldn't that just be the same as the upgraded Sierra-1, but with the "wrong" woofer? I feel like I'm missing something here.

[curtis]

What is the difference in tweeters? And what is the effect of adding the tower tweeters to the Sierra 2?


Wait, I don't understand. What would be the point of getting a Sierra-2 with the NrT tweeter? Wouldn't that just be the same as the upgraded Sierra-1, but with the "wrong" woofer? I feel like I'm missing something here.
Better midrange and transition response than the Sierra-1 NrT, but doesn't play as deep.

[davef]

Wait, I don't understand. What would be the point of getting a Sierra-2 with the NrT tweeter? Wouldn't that just be the same as the upgraded Sierra-1, but with the "wrong" woofer? I feel like I'm missing something here.

We have made this speaker for a few customers of ours as some prefer the sound of a high quality dome tweeter over a ribbon, but they also wanted more detailed mids and a faster transient response than what the Sierra-1 NrT woofer is capable of.

[mikesiskav]

We have made this speaker for a few customers of ours as some prefer the sound of a high quality dome tweeter over a ribbon, but they also wanted more detailed mids and a faster transient response than what the Sierra-1 NrT woofer is capable of.

Dave, just out of curiosity, have you ever built a Sierra tower or Horizon with the Curv woofers from the Sierra-2? Just wondering how something like that might turn out.

[davef]

Dave, just out of curiosity, have you ever built a Sierra tower or Horizon with the Curv woofers from the Sierra-2? Just wondering how something like that might turn out.

There is really no point as the dedicated mid in the tower is a better overall midrange driver and the bass woofers in the tower extend quite a bit deeper. The Sierra-2 woofer is about as good as it gets for a driver that needs to reproduce both mids and lows.

That said, I have been working with SEAS on a dedicated 6" Curv midrange, but, so far, the performance is only marginally better than the current midrange driver we use in the tower. The cost, however, is over 4x higher, which would force us to raise the price of the towers by quite a bit and the price increase isn't justified IMO.

[SunByrne]

We have made this speaker for a few customers of ours as some prefer the sound of a high quality dome tweeter over a ribbon, but they also wanted more detailed mids and a faster transient response than what the Sierra-1 NrT woofer is capable of.

Fascinating. Can you use the stock Sierra-2 crossover for this, or does this arrangement require a new one, something in between the S1 NrT and the S2?

[Roen]

There is really no point as the dedicated mid in the tower is a better overall midrange driver and the bass woofers in the tower extend quite a bit deeper. The Sierra-2 woofer is about as good as it gets for a driver that needs to reproduce both mids and lows.

That said, I have been working with SEAS on a dedicated 6" Curv midrange, but, so far, the performance is only marginally better than the current midrange driver we use in the tower. The cost, however, is over 4x higher, which would force us to raise the price of the towers by quite a bit and the price increase isn't justified IMO.

Would this option be available for one-off orders?

[davef]

Fascinating. Can you use the stock Sierra-2 crossover for this, or does this arrangement require a new one, something in between the S1 NrT and the S2?

Proper loudspeaker design always requires a new or heavily modified crossover when using different transducers from what was designed for the original crossover.

[SunByrne]

Proper loudspeaker design always requires a new or heavily modified crossover when using different transducers from what was designed for the original crossover.

That's what I thought. When I upgraded from S1 to S1NrT I noticed the crossovers were quite different. (The NrT crossover uses much larger transformers and caps.) Haven't seen an S2 crossover yet.

[davef]

Would this option be available for one-off orders?

Not at this time, perhaps sometime in the future. As mentioned, we are not at the point where I feel the performance of this woofer justifies the price point. SEAS custom builds everything for us, and in order to do so - we must typically order 500 or more units at a time. I don't feel it would be a wise financial move to spend a huge sum of $$ on a component for a few custom builds ;)

We are constantly in a process of evaluating ways to improve product performance, in many cases - since all of our speakers are heavily engineered to begin with, it is far more complex than one might imagine and replacing a component means a complete redesign of the crossover as well.

[dtsequoia]

Dave, I know you're insanely busy with the website update...

But, have you thought about providing this option for those who may want to upgrade the midrange on the towers? Similar to what you did with the Sierra 1.

Just curious!

[mikesiskav]

There is really no point as the dedicated mid in the tower is a better overall midrange driver and the bass woofers in the tower extend quite a bit deeper. The Sierra-2 woofer is about as good as it gets for a driver that needs to reproduce both mids and lows.

That said, I have been working with SEAS on a dedicated 6" Curv midrange, but, so far, the performance is only marginally better than the current midrange driver we use in the tower. The cost, however, is over 4x higher, which would force us to raise the price of the towers by quite a bit and the price increase isn't justified IMO.

Ah, that makes sense. I totally agree on the Curv woofer on the Sierra-2. People always talk about how great the Raal tweeter is, but the curv woofer is just as amazing IMO.

[cgramer]

Hi, I'm new here and joined to ask this question about the Sierra-2, which looks amazing and currently tops my list of potential new bookshelf speakers for the two-channel (plus subs) system I'm planning. I have one feature request for the next run, if there is one, and it's just an aesthetic one: Any chance you could switch to magnetic grilles? I love listening without grilles on, and not having the four holes on the baffle would look so much better, especially on the finish I'm looking at, the satin dark cherry.

Thanks for considering it! :)

—Chris

[jimb]

Maybe you could get custom cabinets without grills (and their mount holes)?

[cgramer]

Maybe you could get custom cabinets without grills (and their mount holes)?
Seems like an extreme solution, but sure. Or I could just get other speakers that already have magnetic grilles. But it's not that important to me. It's all about the sound. :)

—Chris

[jimb]

Magnetic attachment has been raised in the past, and yet is not here, so it seems like it is not happening, generally. But you can ask Dave about the cost or delivery difference for a set that skip that drilling. It might be worth it to you.

[N Boros]

Seems like an extreme solution, but sure. Or I could just get other speakers that already have magnetic grilles. But it's not that important to me. It's all about the sound. :)

—Chris

You could instead go with Sierra Luna LCRs, which will have very similar performance to the Sierra 2s. Dave is currently working on them, but said that he is thinking maybe May, they would be available. The Lunas have magnetic grills, so I think the Luna LCRs would as well.

[davef]

Hi, I'm new here and joined to ask this question about the Sierra-2, which looks amazing and currently tops my list of potential new bookshelf speakers for the two-channel (plus subs) system I'm planning. I have one feature request for the next run, if there is one, and it's just an aesthetic one: Any chance you could switch to magnetic grilles? I love listening without grilles on, and not having the four holes on the baffle would look so much better, especially on the finish I'm looking at, the satin dark cherry.

Thanks for considering it! :)

—Chris

Welcome to the forum Chris!

Our standard Sierra-2 cabinets as offered on the website are made for us by our overseas cabinet maker. We purchase these in very high volumes in order to lower our costs and keep retail pricing down. Magnetic grilles is something we are looking into, but it does require significant changes to the both the design of the cabinet as well as the grille itself and it will increase the retail pricing a bit. That stated, it would be at least a full year, possible even longer before we are even able start prototyping.

We can make a custom Sierra-2 cabinet with magnetic grilles from our local cabinet maker, but this will be quite a bit more expensive than our standard cabinets. Please feel free to email me directly if you would like to discuss in more detail.

thanks!

[Pogre]

Hi there! I had the good fortune to stumble across a pair of these speakers on Craigslist and was able to get them for $650!!

I've been listening to them the last couple of days and I must say they're stunning speakers. In both sound quality and looks. The pair I found are piano gloss black and in pristine condition.

I currently have SVS Ultra towers up front and 3 Ultra books for surround and center channel duty. I'm also quite enamored with them as well, but my time spent with the Sierra 2s has me considering the Sierra towers. I have a large space (more than 6000^3) and like it loud sometimes.

That said, I'm really surprised at how much usable, clean bass these can produce! I expected to be wowed by the Raal tweeters (and I am) but the LFR of the sierra 2s is very impressive as well! They will be very easy to blend with my subs. My only concern is achieving the spl I like to hit from time to time. Hence my consideration for the Sierra towers.1903
19041908

[kamaboko]

Hello,

Just wanted to toss this question out there. I currently have a pair of the Sierra-1 speakers and was thinking about upgrading them to the 2EX. If I do that though, I'm left with the components minus cabinets for two speakers. Just seems like a waste of product. If anything, I could use them for rear surrounds. Are there any available cabinet plans? Yeah, the components are specked for bamboo cabinets, but for surrounds (e.g., planes flying by and car crashes) I don't think they have to be that particular. Thanks.

[natetg57]

Hello,

Just wanted to toss this question out there. I currently have a pair of the Sierra-1 speakers and was thinking about upgrading them to the 2EX. If I do that though, I'm left with the components minus cabinets for two speakers. Just seems like a waste of product. If anything, I could use them for rear surrounds. Are there any available cabinet plans? Yeah, the components are specked for bamboo cabinets, but for surrounds (e.g., planes flying by and car crashes) I don't think they have to be that particular. Thanks.

Parts Express has speaker box kits that seem like a good value. Something close to the same cabinet volume would probably work ok.

[davef]

Hello,

Just wanted to toss this question out there. I currently have a pair of the Sierra-1 speakers and was thinking about upgrading them to the 2EX. If I do that though, I'm left with the components minus cabinets for two speakers. Just seems like a waste of product. If anything, I could use them for rear surrounds. Are there any available cabinet plans? Yeah, the components are specked for bamboo cabinets, but for surrounds (e.g., planes flying by and car crashes) I don't think they have to be that particular. Thanks.

We don't offer any cabinet plans but we do have customers who have built their own cabinets for the components. Ideally, you would want to copy both the dimensions and port tuning of the Sierra-1 cabinet.

[Qman]

Hello,

Just wanted to toss this question out there. I currently have a pair of the Sierra-1 speakers and was thinking about upgrading them to the 2EX. If I do that though, I'm left with the components minus cabinets for two speakers. Just seems like a waste of product. If anything, I could use them for rear surrounds. Are there any available cabinet plans? Yeah, the components are specked for bamboo cabinets, but for surrounds (e.g., planes flying by and car crashes) I don't think they have to be that particular. Thanks.

Or, you can simply sell the S-1's to me at half price!

[Pogre]

I'm debating on whether I want to get the EX upgrade for my Sierra 2s or go for the towers with Raal tweets. Can I expect more power handling and dynamics at high volumes with the kit? I have a huge room, sit 15' from the front stage and like it loud sometimes. These little books sound so good that I'm considering replacing my current towers.

To me they don't sound any smaller and do very well until I get to about reference level. That's where the towers seem to ask for more and I'm a little too nervous to push the S2s much harder.

I was perfectly happy with my system until I heard these S2s, damn you, lol.

[msound]

Get the towers, you won't regret it. I have never heard the ex but I had the 2s. It's night and day if you ask me. It's even crossed over at 80hz with my sub and it's still a big improvement. To sum it up in a few words, fuller sounding, clearer midrange, and louder.

[davef]

I'm debating on whether I want to get the EX upgrade for my Sierra 2s or go for the towers with Raal tweets. Can I expect more power handling and dynamics at high volumes with the kit? I have a huge room, sit 15' from the front stage and like it loud sometimes. These little books sound so good that I'm considering replacing my current towers.

To me they don't sound any smaller and do very well until I get to about reference level. That's where the towers seem to ask for more and I'm a little too nervous to push the S2s much harder.

I was perfectly happy with my system until I heard these S2s, damn you, lol.

Hi Pogre,

Very happy to hear that you have been enjoying the Sierra-2. Reference level at a 15 foot listening distance with a speaker rated at 86-87 dB sensitivity is very problematic. To reach 85dB from one speaker at this distance requires only about 20 watts of power into the speaker. The problem is that there is 20dB of headroom, such that reference level peaks = 105dB. To be able to reproduce these peaks at your listening distance with speakers rated at this sensitivity requires a massive 1600 watts of power. Your receiver or amplifier does not have that kind of power (nor can a speaker handle anywhere near this), thus you run the very real risk of causing your amp/receiver to clip badly. This can cause extensive damage to your speakers that is not covered under warranty.

At your listening distance, I highly recommend going with our towers, which have much higher sensitivity and can also handle more power.

Hope this makes sense!

[Pogre]

Hi Pogre,

Very happy to hear that you have been enjoying the Sierra-2. Reference level at a 15 foot listening distance with a speaker rated at 86-87 dB sensitivity is very problematic. To reach 85dB from one speaker at this distance requires only about 20 watts of power into the speaker. The problem is that there is 20dB of headroom, such that reference level peaks = 105dB. To be able to reproduce these peaks at your listening distance with speakers rated at this sensitivity requires a massive 1600 watts of power. Your receiver or amplifier does not have that kind of power (nor can a speaker handle anywhere near this), thus you run the very real risk of causing your amp/receiver to clip badly. This can cause extensive damage to your speakers that is not covered under warranty.

At your listening distance, I highly recommend going with our towers, which have much higher sensitivity and can also handle more power.

Hope this makes sense!

Okay, thank you! Yes, it makes perfect sense. More cabinet volume and more drivers make for better power handling and sensitivity in the towers. I have no idea what to expect from the EX kit, but I think you sufficiently answered my questions there. No matter what, it's still a bookshelf speaker and not meant for reference levels in large rooms! Towers it is then! I need a little more time to get the budget together, but you can expect to be hearing from me soon!

I'm not playing them at reference for the reasons you stated above. -5 (-10 to -15 most of the time) is about as much as I'm comfortable with, even then only for maybe a song and only when crossed over to my subs. Am I still pushing the limits when using an 80 hz crossover at that volume? I have a Monolith 7, using a SR6011 as a pre pro and Audyssey calibrated for mlp.

I'd never push them that hard at full range. Last thing I wanna do is break my new favorite toys!

[davef]

Okay, thank you! Yes, it makes perfect sense. More cabinet volume and more drivers make for better power handling and sensitivity in the towers. I have no idea what to expect from the EX kit, but I think you sufficiently answered my questions there. No matter what, it's still a bookshelf speaker and not meant for reference levels in large rooms! Towers it is then! I need a little more time to get the budget together, but you can expect to be hearing from me soon!

I'm not playing them at reference for the reasons you stated above. -5 (-10 to -15 most of the time) is about as much as I'm comfortable with, even then only for maybe a song and only when crossed over to my subs. Am I still pushing the limits when using an 80 hz crossover at that volume? I have a Monolith 7, using a SR6011 as a pre pro and Audyssey calibrated for mlp.

I'd never push them that hard at full range. Last thing I wanna do is break my new favorite toys!

Adding a subwoofer and high passing the speakers does not change the numbers I provided you previously. The issue is your listening distance in combination with the sensitivity of the speaker and the volume levels you want to play at. To be able to reproduce the 20dB peaks in movie soundtracks without clipping, the "math" indicates that you should not go over 80dB. I would say this is the "safe" range at your listening distance, giving you ~ 15dB of headroom.

[Pogre]

Adding a subwoofer and high passing the speakers does not change the numbers I provided you previously. The issue is your listening distance in combination with the sensitivity of the speaker and the volume levels you want to play at. To be able to reproduce the 20dB peaks in movie soundtracks without clipping, the "math" indicates that you should not go over 80dB. I would say this is the "safe" range at your listening distance, giving you ~ 15dB of headroom.

Understood. I've been mainly listening to music and my normal range is well below reference. I haven't done any real movie watching with them yet. I usually switch back to my towers for that anyway since everything else is voiced to match.

Appreciate you jumping in and preventing me from potentially driving off a cliff tho, so thank you! I'd be gutted if I blew something up.

I'm on your site right now, reading up on the towers with the Raal upgrade...