Delivery!

[Sonic Ray]

Only 6 business days to fulfill order (2 Towers and STC Horizon in Matte) and ship from Cali to Ohio. Impressive! Holy S**t they are heavy and solid. After unpacking and taking them down to the basement I only had time and energy for a brief inaugural listen. I slipped in a few old faves: Making Movies, Aja, and Joe's Garage. Sweetness abounded. Will experiment and listen more in next few days. Still putting the home theater together. Will upload some pics soon.

[Sonic Ray]

My 8 year-old as size reference, and the setup pre-screen and finishing trim.

[makutaku]

Congrats! Enjoy them. (Your son included!) :D

[monkuboy]

Hey didn't you notice the "this side up" arrows??? I think your warranty is now void. :D

(j/k.. congrats - that is MOST impressive!)

[Dark Ranger]

Wow! The first pic, now that is a magnificent tower of power! :D

Looks like your son is pretty excited, too. Maybe it's the "Made in USA" stickers? :cool:

Thanks for sharing. Now, get back to listening...stat!

[DougMac]

Congrats! Now, get busy on the room!

[bill1908]

I wonder if he's thinkin......did this come out of my college fund?:p

[Sonic Ray]

You guys are a hoot. So tonight I compared them A/B with my previous speakers which were old Aperion bookshelves from 2003. Obviously, the Towers are fuller and deeper and have much more presence in midrange. However, I think the soundstage was more constricted and somehow (I say this because the nrt tweeter must outclass the aperion) the highs were tighter and heavier sounding--they didn't float on top of the music the way I'm used to hearing. Anyone have any comments on this? Do I need to break them in? I may repost this in its own thread.

[logicology]

I'm surprised to hear (see?) you say the sound stage is "constricted". I don't have my towers yet, but this sounds contrary to what others are saying. As for the tweeter sound not "floating" above the mids, perhaps that is the result of a better integrated speaker.(?)

[curtis]

Were the Aperions used in the same space?

Keep in mind that because the Aperions don't have the mids and bass then Towers do, the highs may seem more prominent.

Can you move the Towers a bit forward? The look to be behind the 2x4's.

[Sonic Ray]

Curtis-- good eye. But that room is way too reflective for sound right now. I moved the towers to a different part of the basement with carpeting and furniture. The Aperions were resting atop the towers. I adjusted my height when listening. High hats, triangle, guitar string picking and strumming were brighter from the bookshelves and the soundstage was more expansive. I hope I can get this figured out.

[davef]

You guys are a hoot. So tonight I compared them A/B with my previous speakers which were old Aperion bookshelves from 2003. Obviously, the Towers are fuller and deeper and have much more presence in midrange. However, I think the soundstage was more constricted and somehow (I say this because the nrt tweeter must outclass the aperion) the highs were tighter and heavier sounding--they didn't float on top of the music the way I'm used to hearing. Anyone have any comments on this? Do I need to break them in? I may repost this in its own thread.

Which Aperion bookshelf speakers? Many of the older Aperion bookshelf speakers have a rather dramatically tipped-up high frequency response which make them sound sparkly but this is not at all accurate. It might take you some time to get used to a more linear high frequency response.

How did you do the A/B comparison? Where did you place the bookshelf speakers in reference to the towers? Also, are you using a receiver with auto equalization? If yes, you absolutely must disable this for both speakers...

In addition, the Towers are MUCH more sensitive, how did you do the level matching?

[Sonic Ray]

Dave, thanks for the response. They are the 522Ds. You are probably correct about them being overly bright. However, I fear its a sound I've grown accustomed to dating back to my old infinity rs series. I used the "processor direct feature" which the Yamaha manual says send an unaltered signal from source to amp. The bookshelves were atop the Towers. I changed my height when switching back and forth. I manually turned the volume up and down to level-match (by ear)

[davef]

Dave, thanks for the response. They are the 522Ds. You are probably correct about them being overly bright. However, I fear its a sound I've grown accustomed to dating back to my old infinity rs series. I used the "processor direct feature" which the Yamaha manual says send an unaltered signal from source to amp. The bookshelves were atop the Towers. I changed my height when switching back and forth. I manually turned the volume up and down to level-match (by ear)

Yeah, the old 522D's were quite bright and rather sibilant. Aperion has come a long way since back then and their newer products have a more linear (flat) response as it has been proven time and time again that a more accurate response is generally preferred over time.

It is tough going from a bright speaker to one that is flat, however, you might be quite surprised how your impressions will change in a week or two. You need to clear your palette and I strongly recommend listening to only the towers for the next 2 weeks.

We get comments like these more often then you would think with people upgrading from different speaker brands. From someone upgrading from a speaker with rolled off highs, initial comments are that our products are too bright... Someone like yourself upgrading from a speaker with tipped up highs, our speakers are not bright enough.

Trust the Towers for a while, get used to their sound and after a few weeks, try switching back to those 522's...

[davef]

The Aperions were resting atop the towers. I adjusted my height when listening. High hats, triangle, guitar string picking and strumming were brighter from the bookshelves and the soundstage was more expansive. I hope I can get this figured out.

You can't A/B the speakers this way -- placing the bookshelves on top of the Towers is going to dramatically affect the performance of the towers. The only way to properly A/B them is to place the bookshelf speakers on stands next to the towers so that the tweeters are at the same height and the speakers should be placed in an AB AB configuration such that the space between both pairs of speakers is the same.

[Sonic Ray]

Very well...I'll trade in the McDonalds and Captain Morgans/Coke for a Ruth's Chris NY Strip and a 1991 cab. I'll tell you, those bookshelves WERE fatiguing. Now about the soundstage/imaging--maybe that was from the bookshelves resting atop? Are the towers finicky about placement/separation/toe-in/etc? Do bookshelves have any inherent edge in that quality?

[curtis]

Very well...I'll trade in the McDonalds and Captain Morgans/Coke for a Ruth's Chris NY Strip and a 1991 cab. I'll tell you, those bookshelves WERE fatiguing. Now about the soundstage/imaging--maybe that was from the bookshelves resting atop? Are the towers finicky about placement/separation/toe-in/etc? Do bookshelves have any inherent edge in that quality?
How far away from the speaker were you during the listening?

The only advantage that bookshelves have is that they deal with a smaller front baffle, other than that...no advantage.

[HiroPro]

My 8 year-old as size reference, and the setup pre-screen and finishing trim.

This photo looks like you are building walls around them or some sorta closets for them to sit in... that is not a good idea acoustically dude!

The center especially hasn't had the xover setup for boundary compensation as far as I know. To prevent it coupling with the wall it needs to protrude into the room and not have surface like the wall parallel to the front baffle.

If you stick them in closets and have the center flush to the wall they will not sound as good as they can.

Silly... IMHO

WAF lunacy!?!

The center is to high try to align the tweeter of the center with the mains tweeters (same height). Do you intend to use a perforated projector screen? If not your TV is going to be mounted so high bro you're necks are going to get sore!

[Sonic Ray]

Thanks for the input. I've got a curved 105" cinemawide perforated screen which is going to be built out 18" from the front wall. The idea is to keep the center where it is in the picture. I thought the front ports were there to make placement close to front wall easier without compromising sound. Those 2X4s need to be widened a touch to get the center speaker out a bit more but still 7-8" from the wall which will be treated.

The Towers will not be enclosed. The picture you see would have them just outside the screen. The 2X4s would remain, but would be covered with acousticlly transparent balck fabric--same as above and below the screen. I'd probably raise the towers a bit to get the tweeters more in line. This setup might be a little bit wide for the prime seating which is at ~9 feet from the center screen.

Another option is to put the towers jut inside the edges (behind) the screen. This would require raising them even more because the bottom edge of the screen frame is not acoustically transparent. They's also have to be closer to the wall this way, due to the curvature of the screen.

Thoughts?

[Mag_Neato]

My thoughts on the fabric wrapped tower alcoves are what I figured you were going to do!

My suggestion would be to replace the front 2x4's of the speaker section with round dowel rods. I've attached a pdf file showing what I am thinking. This would minimize diffraction effects like a Vandersteen speaker does.

[Sonic Ray]

Wow, thanks for the suggestion. I'll show that to my contractor. Incidentally, I was in Strongsville over the weekend and went to Corky's as wel--Kenny was way too busy to talk to.

[Mag_Neato]

Wow, thanks for the suggestion. I'll show that to my contractor. Incidentally, I was in Strongsville over the weekend and went to Corky's as wel--Kenny was way too busy to talk to.

You're welcome!

Did you hit the mall over here? I stay away from it on weekends. Too crazy with traffic.

The last time I was at Corky's was with my Fiancee several years ago. Kenny gave us a huge bag of popcorn as we were leaving! Used to make frequent visits to the principals' office in grade school together!:o

[Sonic Ray]

WAF lunacy!?!



Ha! I just googled "WAF" and "speakers." I figured it had to do with Woofers, axis, falloff or something. No Wife Acceptance Factor to worry about here. The theater is in the basement and it is my project.

My goal was to hide the speakers since I have the perforated screen and to have no distraction from being able to see where all that beautiful sound is coming from.

I am thinking that can be achieved with minimal compromise of sound quality. If the forum experts disagree, then I may have to rethink this.

The theater room is starting to come together--about 3-4 weeks till showtime.

[Sonic Ray]

Buildout almost complete. Screen gets mounted tomorrow. Carpet on Thursday. Acoustic treatment and calibration next week or so.

The base of the towers is protruding too much from the platform. I wonder if I can attach them backwards, that would help. I also wonder if they are necessary, might be better just to set the towers on the platforms. Should i carpet underneath?

Anyone see anything problematic? I'm going to look into replacing the 2X4 with a stretch of dowel rod over the portion of the towers that contains the drivers...if the fabric modules can still mount that way.

The towers will be hidden behind fabric just to the outside of a 2.35:1 104" microperf curved screen with the STC behind the screen.

That setup may be a bit wide for the front row, I may be better off placing them just inside the screen edges, but that would require elevating them even higher to get the drivers above the frame.

[curtis]

That looks real nice!

Not sure I would flip the bases. The front of the speaker is heavier than the back.

[logicology]

But if you're covering the speaker cavities with fabric, you could probably secure the speakers without the bases using straps or zip ties or something so they don't topple over.

[Sonic Ray]

Functional--awaiting acoustic treatment/calibtration and finishing cosmetic touches.

[HiroPro]

Sorry for the confusion Sonic Ray! WOW your setup is starting to really look good and take shape! I bet you just LOVE Dave's babies don't you!?!

[GirgleMirt]

Anyone see anything problematic? I'm going to look into replacing the 2X4 with a stretch of dowel rod over the portion of the towers that contains the drivers...if the fabric modules can still mount that way.
Basically that, smaller as possible :) (metal rods maybe?)

Besides, a lot of people in audio seem to believe that stands make a huge difference, some even claiming that spikes on the solid wood floor help improve things... I'm not a believer in that, but, you do want a solid base for your speakers. If they're just set on the frame like that, won't that sort of vibrate/energize the whole structure?

[Sonic Ray]

Royal Tenenbaums just came out on Criterion blu ray. It was the movie I had in mind when designing my home theater. The Ascend components really came through showcasing this fantastic soundtrack. Getting better and better with break-in.