Tower L/R/C vs 340SE L/R/C

[Sonic Ray]

I'm a brand new Ascend customer and never heard Ascend speakers before. I just ordered a set of Sierra Towers and Horizon center to audition. I'm doing a dedicated theater in a basement that is about 20X20X7.5. It will be 90% movies but the movies I watch tend to be "Indy"-type films with alot of musical content to the soundtrack--think Wes Anderson, Juno, Boogie Nights, Almost Famous to get the idea.

Now I'm starting o have second thoughts and wondering whether the Sierra Towers are too much speaker and/or too refined a speaker for the job I want them to do. Would the 340's be a better choice for this content and room size?

I'll have at least one sub maybe two. Cost isn't really an issue. They'll be likely driven with a Denon 3312 and the rooom will be treated acoustically.

The fronts will likely be hidden behind perf screen/false wall so looks aren't an issue. Also placement may be slightly easier with the 340s as they'll go behind the screen better.

Knowledgable Ascend listeners--what do you think? Thanks.

[Bigg35]

Keep the towers as they will out perform the other speakers by quite a wide margin. I am not sure why you think they might be too much for that room. A 20 x 20 x 7.5 room is not small by any means!

[logicology]

I say stick with the towers. But I would opt for the stock NrT tweeter, not the RAAL ribbon tweeter if they are primarily for home theater.

[chas]

Would 3 Horizons work better behind the screen? Something to consider since you could use them either horizontally or vertically.

[zheka]

and front ported horizons may be easier to place close to the walls which maybe important in this case


Would 3 Horizons work better behind the screen? Something to consider since you could use them either horizontally or vertically.

[Sonic Ray]

Thanks for the tips so far...I didn't realize the Horizons were front ported. That might make alot of sense to use vertically as L/R along with center.

Is anyone doing this?

[Sonic Ray]

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but where are the specs for the Horizon?

[zheka]

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but where are the specs for the Horizon?

No, it is not obvious by any means. I do not think there is a product page for the Horizons yet.
At this point parsing through the Horizons thread (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=39478) here is your best option.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=39488&postcount=51

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=38656&postcount=732

I especially like video linked in http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=39395&postcount=13

you'd have to FF to 1:28 for the cumshot

[DougMac]

I'll have at least one sub maybe two.
Knowledgable Ascend listeners--what do you think? Thanks.
I have 340's, never heard the towers, but I'd say stick with them. I also suggest Rhythmik subs. Run two, that will help with room anomolies.

Congrats on being able to have a dedicated home theater. I built one 18 months ago and just love it. All our friends are just bowled over, they think the PQ and AQ are much better than the local cineplex.

What size screen are you considering? What projector?

[Sonic Ray]

Thanks, DM...I'm getting a JVC RS4800 projector and a 105" 2.35:1 curved firehawk G3 microperforated screen with motorized masking. (Screen was a demo from a local showroom.)

[DougMac]

Thanks, DM...I'm getting a JVC RS4800 projector and a 105" 2.35:1 curved firehawk G3 microperforated screen with motorized masking. (Screen was a demo from a local showroom.)
Whoa! That should be a very nice setup! My screen is slightly larger, but in 16:9 ratio. I went back and forth on aspect ratio.

Tell me when you're done and I'll be there!

[sonicboom]

Hi Dougmac,

Do you use an AV receiver with your 340s? If you don't mind me asking, what are you using for amplification? I have 340s as well.

Thanks.

[DougMac]

Hi Dougmac,

Do you use an AV receiver with your 340s? If you don't mind me asking, what are you using for amplification? I have 340s as well.

Thanks.
I don't mind at all. I started out with a NAD T-762. It's a very nice receiver and I paid a fair amount for it. Two things led me to updgrade. It's 5.1 and it has no HDMI. It also has no EQ. That sent me on a search for an alternative.

I settled on an Onkyo TR NX-808. It's 7.1 and has HDMI inputs and outputs. It also has pre-outs and the plan was to start with it and then use external amps, such as Emotiva, at least for the front stage. Also, it has Audyssey Multi-EQ, which includes EQ for the sub.

I have been so pleased that I have not felt the need to add external amps. We normally watch dialog driven films, but we do enjoy movies with "rambunctious" soundtracks on occasion. Movies like "Rango" and "Up" are especially fun and have immersive soundtracks. Even cranked up, the Onkyo has no problems driving the 340's. Onkyo did some redesign and I don't have any problem with overheating.

The nice thing about the Onkyo and the Ascends is that you don't have to turn up the volume for intelligable dialog. This is unlike a friend of mine who has one of those expensive speaker systems made by a four letter company. He paid more for his speakers than I did, but he has to turn it up LOUD for you to understand the dialog. At the end of a movie, you're just worn out.

On a similar note, I feel that local movie theaters turn up the volume too loud. Last time we went, during the previews that are especially loud, I used the Audio Tool app on my iphone to measure SPL. I used C weighting and was surprised to find peaks were only 95db, with average only around 88db. It sure sounded louder! I got to thinking about it and listening more carefully. The sound was harsh and EQ'd for voice. I decided it's the EQ as much as the SPL that made it sound LOUD.

We rarely attend movies at the cineplex. My wife feels the picture quality and audio quality of our home theater is far superior. Besides, we serve better wine!

[Sonic Ray]

one of those expensive speaker systems made by a four letter company.

LOL!

I hate going to the cinplex these days...rude audience, dangerous sound (I actually bring earplugs), often crappy picture (focus, dim projector bulbs).

My Towers and Horizon are en route.

[sonicboom]

I don't mind at all. I started out with a NAD T-762. It's a very nice receiver and I paid a fair amount for it. Two things led me to updgrade. It's 5.1 and it has no HDMI. It also has no EQ. That sent me on a search for an alternative.

I settled on an Onkyo TR NX-808. It's 7.1 and has HDMI inputs and outputs. It also has pre-outs and the plan was to start with it and then use external amps, such as Emotiva, at least for the front stage. Also, it has Audyssey Multi-EQ, which includes EQ for the sub.



Thanks DougMac.

So you feel you need EQ for your Ascend speakers? Funny because I thought you need to leave everything in flat position. My receiver's manual even advises that.

My Sherwood stereo receiver only has Low and High adjustments, but when I do use this feature, I kind of like the sound better. So, does this mean that EQ is good?

Isn't this what people call "coloring" the sound?

[DougMac]

So you feel you need EQ for your Ascend speakers? Funny because I thought you need to leave everything in flat position. My receiver's manual even advises that.

My Sherwood stereo receiver only has Low and High adjustments, but when I do use this feature, I kind of like the sound better. So, does this mean that EQ is good?

Isn't this what people call "coloring" the sound?
I designed my room carefully. I did some reading and used some "golden mean" dimensions ( 16x20x9). I chose materials carefully and did everything but room treatments. I thought it sounded nice when using the NAD flat with no EQ. Sweeps backed me up, the response looked pretty darn good, with relatively minor bumps and suckouts.

That's why I wasn't expecting much of an improvement from a new receiver and did not decide to upgrade based on that capability. I regarded any improvement as icing on the cake.

Once I got the Onkyo set up, I did some reading. I learned that the Onkyo implementation of Audyssey Multi-EQ had some quirks, but they are easily overcome. I first ran the Onkyo "flat" for a few days and it sounded quite good, as good as the NAD, which surprised me. I then decided to try EQ.

Sure enough, when I ran the EQ, it chose 40 hz for crossover! I listened and it was worse than with no EQ. I reran the EQ and this time adjusted the crossover to 80 hz before saving.

Wow, the difference seemed subtle at first, but the more I listened, the better it sounded. My adult son had heard it before I EQ'd. He came by afterword and we watched some of the blu-ray of Eric Clapton's Crossroads Guitar Festival. I didn't tell him about the changes, but within the first minute he turned to me and said "What changes have you made to the system? It sounded good before but now it sounds spectacular!" I should point out that Doug is a musician (played two numbers at the SkyDog Festival with Chuck Leavell in his rhythm section) and he also does part time work for a friend setting up and running audio at live music venues.

The nice thing about Audyssey is that it makes corrections in both the time and frequency domains. It has done a wonderful job correcting the small anomolies in my carefully designed room. It did not add coloration, it removed it.

[zheka]

@DougMac

I also like what Audyssey does in my set up.
Do you use Dynamic EQ at all?

[DougMac]

@DougMac

I also like what Audyssey does in my set up.
Do you use Dynamic EQ at all?
I don't think so. I'll have to check.

[curtis]

I also like what Audyssey does in my set up.
Do you use Dynamic EQ at all?
I just helped a friend setup a system that uses Dynamic EQ (not Ascend speakers).

I was impressed with what it does. It really makes, for me, listening to material at lower levels more enjoyable.

[zheka]

It really makes, for me, listening to material at lower levels more enjoyable.
that's been my experience too.
Audyssey recommends different reference level for Dynamic EQ based on type of material being played. I set the level at 10 for music and 0 for movies.

[S_rangeBrew]

I just helped a friend setup a system that uses Dynamic EQ (not Ascend speakers).

I was impressed with what it does. It really makes, for me, listening to material at lower levels more enjoyable.


3rd here. Because I have to share this house with other people, I hardly ever have it at full volume. Actually, most stuff except for a few correctly mixed movies is not comfortable to listen to at reference, which makes sense, as that's what the receiver calibrate to. Dynamic EQ's boosting of the sounds that get lost at those lower volume (bass especially, but also surrounds) really makes listening a much more enjoyable experience.
I was skeptical at first, being a bit a purist, but now I almost *never* turn DynamicEQ off. Dynamic Volume is another story... I hardly ever turn that on, unless I've got a really dynamic movie and everyone else in the house is asleep. Honestly, I usually just wait and watch the movie when I can turn it up.

As for the towers... of course, keep them. I've never heard them, but everyone who has say they are better than the 340SE. I like the 340SE's because they are light enough so I was able to wall mount them at exactly the height I wanted. Also, they are incredibly efficient and dynamic, but the Towers are also. I personally find the Tower Center (the Horizon) interesting, as it is front ported (which i wish the 340SE was) and small compared to the Tower, providing a lot of placement flexibility in comparison to the Tower... which can be important for home theater.

As far as the word "overwhelm".... I'm not a fan of that word when talking about speakers, as I don't think it's possible for a speaker to "overwhelm" a room or another speaker. As long as a speaker physically fits in a space and it's not so close to you that you would need nearfield monitors, it's fine. The only way it can "overwhelm" you or your room is if you turn the volume knob up too much, assuming everything is calibrated correctly.

[Sonic Ray]

Thanks, Sbrew. So after a week of no listening because I had to box up the speakers with sawdust and drywall in the air, I started listening again over the past few days. Now i have them (2 channel...haven't even hooked up the STC center yet) in a large open great room with vaulted ceilings. Room is too reflective but eventually they'll be in a treated home theater space.

I'm still tweaking the separation and toe-in and distance to walls. They sound great, but for some reason, I'm still not hearing a wide-open soundstage (which I do in the same room with bookshelves.)

Here's a question: Do "bright" speakers open up the soundfield? Could this be part of the initial appeal of artificial treble boost (with listening fatigue being the price to pay?)

[Clarification: I am not referring to the Ascend Towers as "Bright" or "Fatiguing". I am replacing a pair of Bookshelf speakers that are. My initial impression--in another thread--was that while the towers had a much better sound, I did not think the separation/soundstage was as wide. I'm still experimenting and evaluating on that point. Meanwhile, i just listened to my favorite tracks from one of the best sounding CD's ever, IMO, "Brothers in Arms" by Dire Straits. It was a wonderful experience.

[choirbass]

As far as imaging and soundstage impressions. The first few days of owning the 340 se fronts were a bit disappointing. It turns out that was 'entirely' due to picking horrible placement choices, the speaker supports being hollow so they were just not supportive for anything, and other things not being quite ideal either. I guess you could ironically say the speakers themselves are 'too' accurate :P Feed them crap, and they'll throw it right back at you, comparatively amplified no less. So that's certainly not limited to just intended source material.

I guess all I can say is having lower quality speakers won't suffer quite as much under poorer conditions, simply because they don't have as much to offer as a whole.

So given that, I guess I don't feel 'as' surprised. Excellent speakers sound excellent when they're fed excellence :)

[davef]

Here's a question: Do "bright" speakers open up the soundfield? Could this be part of the initial appeal of artificial treble boost (with listening fatigue being the price to pay?)

Yes, most definitely -- especially in a highly reflective room because high frequencies themselves, with their extremely short wavelengths, are highly reflective and tend to bounce around everywhere... This adds "spaciousness" but it is important to understand that it is artificial and inaccurate. Give more energy to the highs and you add more energy to the reflected sound...

The tweeters in your towers also have a waveguide, which helps control dispersion and reduce off-axis reflections. The overall philosophy behind any high end loudspeaker system is to hear more of the loudspeaker itself and less of the room, which is also why room treatments are recommended (to tame those reflections -- which are predominantly in the high frequency range)

Hope this makes sense.