Prospective buyer

[CallMeTG]

Hello all--

I was directed here by someone on another forum when I asked about upgrading my current speakers. I have looked around and read as much as I can and I like what I see. I am waiting on a replacement driver for one of my current towers from the manufacturer and when I receive that, I will be putting that system for sale and seriously considering an Ascend system to replace it.

Let me give you some information on my system and preferences. Currently I am running a very simple and modest system:

Denon 1912 receiver with Audyssey MultEQ auto-cal (90 watts per channel)
Mirage CC3 towers, center, bookshelves as surrounds
SVS sub

There is plenty of bass with the sub, but I am getting a little bored with the Mirage system. This system is used primarily for home theater (Oppo Blu Ray player) and gaming (Xbox).

My top priority for the system will be clean and clear dialogue for movies. I also want a wide soundstage with clear and distinct imaging (important for gaming). I like high impact sound but am not looking for something that will play well at full blast. I am more interested in something that sounds awesome at 50% - 75%. I want something that sounds big and doesn't sound muffled like my current speakers do.

The system is in my basement and I sit about 10 feet away. The room is not huge.

Since this system will see limited music only use (I have another 2.1 channel system upstairs I am using for music) I am considering the following:

CMT-340 SE mains and center with pedestals for the mains
CMB-170 SE bookshelves as surrounds with the Omni brackets so I can mount them on the wall
My current SVS sub

I have never used a separate, dedicated power source for speakers; I've always just plugged them in to the receiver and gone. That is kind of what I am wanting to do with this system. The great news is that if this is the system you all recommend, I will be in at way less than the current system set me back. My only problem will be finding a way to ship the towers I have now once I sell them as I don't have any of the original boxes or packing material anymore :(

Anyways, that's my long winded introduction. I'm looking forward to hearing any suggestions or ideas on my plan!

Thanks!

Tyler

[curtis]

Tyler,

Welcome to the forum.

I have not heard a Mirage setup before, but you proposed setup should sound great!

[DougMac]

Hello all--

The system is in my basement and I sit about 10 feet away. The room is not huge.

I am considering the following:

CMT-340 SE mains and center with pedestals for the mains
CMB-170 SE bookshelves as surrounds with the Omni brackets so I can mount them on the wall
My current SVS sub

Tyler
Tyler,
Welcome to the forum! I'm responding because I'm running a setup similar to what you plan.

I use 340's up front, 170's for side surrounds and 200's for rear surrounds. The surrounds are flown from ceiling Omnimounts. I have a SVS PB12-NSD sub and also use Audyssey MultiEQ using an Onkyo receiver similar to your Denon. All this is in a dedicated 16x20 home theater.

I haven't heard any Mirage speakers so I can't speak to the differences. I can tell you I've been extremely pleased with my Ascends. New Year's Day we had some friends over who had not seen our Home Theater. He's a big Robert Randolph fan so I played him his performance on the Crossroads Guitar Festival blu-ray. He was bowled over! He remarked that he could clearly hear every instrument and though I had it turned up moderately loud (-15), it was not uncomfortable or tiring to listen. He also said: "It's obvious you've spent a great deal of time and care to get your audio system set up just right."

[CallMeTG]

Thanks for the replies. Although I've never heard the Ascends in person, I am still fairly confident it will not be hard to outperform the Mirage towers I have now. These are not their top of the line towers; they're more of a "lifestyle" speaker which as well all know puts performance behind appearance/style in some cases.

Browsing the forum, it looks like most of the energy and excitement is revolving around the Sierras. There are a couple of reasons I am not really considering those at this point. First, they're significantly more expensive than the CMTs. Second, they seem to be generating a lot of buzz for their musical reproduction. Third, it looks like they require a dedicated power source to really sing. So, I'm trying to stay focused on the CMTs while looking everything over, but there's always something newer and better :o


DougMac -- we have the exact same sub actually. Mine's a little older model with the BASH amp but it still fills my basement (hell, my whole house really) with intense bass. The CMTs will reach down low enough to fill in any gaps above where the sub would cut off I assume?

[DougMac]

DougMac -- we have the exact same sub actually. Mine's a little older model with the BASH amp but it still fills my basement (hell, my whole house really) with intense bass. The CMTs will reach down low enough to fill in any gaps above where the sub would cut off I assume?
Yes, the CMT's dig plenty deep. I set the crossover @80hz, which provides a seamless transition. I don't know how MultiEQ works on your receiver, but mine wanted to set the crossover at 40hz! Luckily, that's one of the parameters you can modify.

I'm powering my CMT's with my Onkyo 808. I bought the 808 with plans to drive the front with an external amp, but the Ascends sound so good I haven't felt the need. I'll probably upgrade to a Rhythmik sub first.

I have also thought about upgrading to the Sierras. I may do that some day. Some people suggest the CMT's are better for HT, since folks believe they can reach reference levels with less strain. I don't drive my system that hard, so for me it wouldn't be a factor.

If you're ever in Middle Georgia, you're welcome to drop by for an audition!

[scape]

I think what you're looking at to buy is a great choice. I would suggest that you cross your sub using the denon, and not the sub controls. since you're also blending your system with the 170's you may want to use 80hz as the crossover point.

I have a denon 1910 with the 170's and 340 up front crossed to a sub. It sounds great with movies and games.
do you plan on a center channel? that will really help with: 'clean and clear dialogue for movies... wide soundstage with clear and distinct imaging (important for gaming).'

[CallMeTG]

I think what you're looking at to buy is a great choice. I would suggest that you cross your sub using the denon, and not the sub controls. since you're also blending your system with the 170's you may want to use 80hz as the crossover point.

I have a denon 1910 with the 170's and 340 up front crossed to a sub. It sounds great with movies and games.
do you plan on a center channel? that will really help with: 'clean and clear dialogue for movies... wide soundstage with clear and distinct imaging (important for gaming).'

Yes, I would go with the matching center as well. When you say "cross your sub using the denon" what do you mean? I've got the sub controls set and I make any minor adjustments to the levels/crossover via the Denon menus after I've run Audyssey.

[CallMeTG]

Alright, I've done a little more reading and I have one major question.

I know these speakers are billed as being "neutral" meaning they don't add or take anything away from the original source. What makes this different than the speakers sounding flat? I still want punchy bass and lively highs.... I just don't want the speakers to wear me out.

[choirbass]

Alright, I've done a little more reading and I have one major question.

I know these speakers are billed as being "neutral" meaning they don't add or take anything away from the original source. What makes this different than the speakers sounding flat? I still want punchy bass and lively highs.... I just don't want the speakers to wear me out.


I would think the best way to interpret 'neutral', is simply as non-fatiguing while also being quite revealing. All-in-all pleasant to listen to.

The problem though and contrary to what you're wanting, is that adding too much of some aspect acoustically, while initially and possibly being more enjoyable, is also what can lead to feeling 'fatigued' in itself. A cache-22, I suppose.

[scape]

i think that they are neutral in that they are neither laid back nor forward. i enjoy my ascend speakers, they sound very different than all of the other speakers I have owned, much more accurate (or atleast what I assume is accurate)

i'd suggest crossing over the sub with the denon because that is what is also crossing over the other speakers, it might be best not to introduce yet another variable such as the sub crossing itself over using its own circuitry-- least that is how I view it.

[DougMac]

When you say "cross your sub using the denon" what do you mean? I've got the sub controls set and I make any minor adjustments to the levels/crossover via the Denon menus after I've run Audyssey.
Just to clarify, as printed in ths SVS manual: "Turn the Low Pass control fully clockwise to disable the STA-400D’s internal low pass filter... Set the subwoofer gain control to between 10 and 11 o'clock."

There's an alternative method to setting gain. If your Denon will play test tones with Audyssey disengaged, play tones through your front speakers. Use an SPL meter and note the db. It should be around 75 db. Then adjust the gain on the back of the SVS sub to match the same db level. That's a good starting point for Audyssey.

I don't know if your Mirages are considered "neutral" speakers. I know there can be a period of adjustment for those who are used to speakers which were designed to not be neutral. Advents and Cerwin Vegas come to mind. I don't know of a more modern equivalent, although I suspect some of the newer Klipsch fall into that category.

Ascends and other speakers, as I understand it, are designed to deliver a flat frequency response in an anechoic chamber. I think this is ideal for AVR. This way the AVR EQ only has to adjust for room anomolies.

My Ascends are neutral, but not weak and thin sounding.

[CallMeTG]

Just to clarify, as printed in ths SVS manual: "Turn the Low Pass control fully clockwise to disable the STA-400D’s internal low pass filter... Set the subwoofer gain control to between 10 and 11 o'clock."

There's an alternative method to setting gain. If your Denon will play test tones with Audyssey disengaged, play tones through your front speakers. Use an SPL meter and note the db. It should be around 75 db. Then adjust the gain on the back of the SVS sub to match the same db level. That's a good starting point for Audyssey.

I don't know if your Mirages are considered "neutral" speakers. I know there can be a period of adjustment for those who are used to speakers which were designed to not be neutral. Advents and Cerwin Vegas come to mind. I don't know of a more modern equivalent, although I suspect some of the newer Klipsch fall into that category.

Ascends and other speakers, as I understand it, are designed to deliver a flat frequency response in an anechoic chamber. I think this is ideal for AVR. This way the AVR EQ only has to adjust for room anomolies.

My Ascends are neutral, but not weak and thin sounding.

Thanks for the reminder regarding the SVS knob. I had to double check that I had it set right, but I am in fact overriding the internal filter and allowing the Denon to do all the directing.

Another question that's come up after looking at a bunch of material is the issue of bi-wiring, or bi-amping. I notice in a lot of pictures that there are two sets of cables running to the backs of the speakers. One input is for the woofer, and one is for the tweeter. I don't even know if my Denon is capable of bi-amping, and if it's not, how do you handle the separate speaker inputs with one set of speaker wire per speaker?

I've got my Monitor Audio RS8's bi-wired upstairs, so I am familiar with that, but I've never seen separate terminals for the woofer and tweeter.

[DougMac]

Another question that's come up after looking at a bunch of material is the issue of bi-wiring, or bi-amping. I notice in a lot of pictures that there are two sets of cables running to the backs of the speakers. One input is for the woofer, and one is for the tweeter. I don't even know if my Denon is capable of bi-amping, and if it's not, how do you handle the separate speaker inputs with one set of speaker wire per speaker?

The 340's come with a jumper that connects the two terminals.

There's lots of opinions on bi-wiring. I tried it with my 340's and didn't notice a difference.

[CallMeTG]

The 340's come with a jumper that connects the two terminals.

There's lots of opinions on bi-wiring. I tried it with my 340's and didn't notice a difference.

Okay, sounds good.

I'm just waiting to hear back from David and then I'll get my Mirage stuff for sale and place an order.

[CallMeTG]

I heard back from David, and as expected, he answered all of my questions in the e-mail. We're on the same page regarding my proposed purchase.

I have sold my current surrounds and center channel speaker. I just need to figure out a way to package my tower speakers and get them sold so I can place an order for the Ascends :) I'm thinking a large cardboard tube would be a good way to ship them individually.

[choirbass]

The 340's come with a jumper that connects the two terminals.

There's lots of opinions on bi-wiring. I tried it with my 340's and didn't notice a difference.

The 340's bi-wiring posts also function well for bi-amping too, incase your single amps need more power supplied than they can offer alone. Although, the 340's are pretty sensetive as is.

edit: pay no mind to the claim of needs for 'special' circumstances to accomplish bi-amping, active x-overs, etc, though being finicky about it is always an option too. The passive x-overs provided inside the 340's will provide what's needed to accomplish separation between matching amps. Be sure to remove the binding clips beforehand, just saying to prevent damage :)

[CallMeTG]

So if you're not going to bi-wire or bi-amp, do you plug one clip into the woofer input and one into the tweeter input?

:o

[choirbass]

Since both binding clips are staying connected, it's only necessary to connect to either the tweeter or woofer; they'll both be powered.

[CallMeTG]

Since both binding clips are staying connected, it's only necessary to connect to either the tweeter or woofer; they'll both be powered.


Gotcha. Thanks!

[CallMeTG]

So just so I'm clear on the sales that are going on right now...

Are they figured in on the listed prices of the speakers?

I'm going to order the three front 340s, two 170s for surrounds, two pedastals for the 340s, and then some Omni brackets and some speaker wire.

Do I need to do anything special to get the sale prices?

[curtis]

I am pretty sure that is all you need to do. Send an email or call Ascend to make sure.

[CallMeTG]

Okay. I'll have to call. I e-mailed David a little over a week ago and haven't heard back yet. I know he's a busy man :)

[Leo95se]

Ditto. Was hoping I'd have an order placed by now lol

[billy p]

I received an Email the other day from Dave...I know he is around but things appear to be a real hectic right now. Id like to have my order in this upcoming week. The only thing holding me back....I'm waiting for my return labels via email....otherwise I'll be calling Ascend agin...if they don't arrive soon. Common Dave some of us are getting antsy...:D

Regards, Bill...:)

[davef]

Sorry guys... I am about a week behind on emails right now :( This week has been crazy but I am answering emails today, while watching some football.

Again, my sincere apologies....

[Leo95se]

No problem Dave.. The giants are worth it! ;)

[davef]

No problem Dave.. The giants are worth it! ;)

Strange game so far, the refs blew a major call... Go G-Men :)

[CallMeTG]

I heard back from David and just placed an order. Thanks!

[billy p]

Dave , I just emailed you my information on how we'll proceed...I hope to have my 1's in transit before the weekend.

I'll await your reply & I hope to hear from you soon...:)

[CallMeTG]

Alright, my goodies all came in today. I got the pedestals assembled and got the mains set up and connected. I still need to mount the Omni brackets and mount the surrounds to them.

My problem is that I need a new center channel speaker cable. I ordered a pair of t Ultralink cables with the system and am using that for the mains. I'd like to use the same thing for the center channel but I can only find it in pairs.

Is there any way to get a single four or five foot cable for the center channel?

If not, what cable do you recommend? I live in a small town, so no Best Buy or local A/V stores.

EDIT: Nevermind, I bit the bullet and ordered one and am having it next day air shipped.