CMT-340 vs.SIERRA-1

[kinggimp82]

I currently own a pair of CBM-170 SE's and am thinking of upgrading to either the CMT-340 or SIERRA-1. I am pretty much 50/50 music and home theater use. I would think the 340s would be a nice upgrade from the 170s. But how much more of a speaker is the Sierra that the 340? Right now the 340s are in my price range while the Sierra's would be stretching my budget pretty thin. I would have to wait at least 4 months before I would have enough money for the Sierra's. Is the Sierra that much better than the 340 to justify the extra cash? When I upgrade I do not want to do so again for quite awhile. I would probably be happy with the 340's but do not want to regret not saving up a little longer to get the Sierra's. If somebody could compare the two for me that would be great. Any input would be appreciated.

[buddhadas]

I have both, but in different systems.
I use the Sierra's full range, no sub for music only, and love them.
I use the 340's for home theater, and am equally happy.
I tried the Sierra's for HT duty for a while, but found that I preferred the 340's for that route. I wish I could give you a brilliant reason as to why, but for me it just comes down to how each sounds with each set-up.


Jim

[Mag_Neato]

I never did a side by side between the 170's and the 340's, but I heard the 340SE's at someones' house. I had the non SE 170's at the time. For me, there was not a significant enough difference to make me want to switch. Granted they were not directly compared, but they were not much different other than they could play louder and maybe more dynamic. The Sierra-1 was a different story. A speaker with that much time and effort to produce had to have something special. So I bought one of the first pairs on blind faith and have not regretted it. I did the NrT upgrade late last year and it is, to me, even better.

I'd recommend trying to audition the 340's and see what you think. The in home trial is the best way to know for sure, but if someone near you owns them maybe you could listen to theirs.

[debo]

Hey I'm that someone's house Ed is speaking of...Hello ED.
I had the 340se's L/C/R and 170se's for surround and upgraded to the Sierra-1's for L/C/R and kept the 170se's for surround.
If you are 50/50 HT and music I would go with the Sierra's because for music the Sierra's are really worth the price.

[Mag_Neato]

Hey Jeff, how's it going?

I agree that for music the Sierra's are worth the cost. I had another 340 owner audition my Sierra's after I bought them. He said they were definitely an improvement. They let you "see" more into the music and the bass was amazing for their size.

[kinggimp82]

Hey I'm that someone's house Ed is speaking of...Hello ED.
I had the 340se's L/C/R and 170se's for surround and upgraded to the Sierra-1's for L/C/R and kept the 170se's for surround.
If you are 50/50 HT and music I would go with the Sierra's because for music the Sierra's are really worth the price.

Where do you crossover your Sierras for home theater use and for music? 40 hz?

[kinggimp82]

I am leaning more and more towards the Sierras. I've been reading quite a few professional reviews. The reviews are great. Seems like the Sierras will be a much nicer upgrade from the 170s then the 340s will be. Sounds like they will make listening to music that much better. :)

[S_rangeBrew]

Yes, I would suspect the 340SE's are more of a "dynamic" improvement to the 170s. That is, they get louder with the same amount of power. For high volume movie listening, this is important. I enjoy the fact that I don't have to worry about my 340SE's being dynamic enough, due to their high efficiency. I've never heard the Sierra's, and will remain blissfully ignorant, as I don't have the space or money for a second system! ;)

[Galwin]

I have had both speakers. In my opinion, the Sierra's are a significant upgrade for music listening and well worth the investment. I think it is one of the best cost/performance values on the market. I can't imagine anyone not liking them. what they do for the cost is amazing. For just home theatre, the 340SE's would be all you need.

[kinggimp82]

Yes, I would suspect the 340SE's are more of a "dynamic" improvement to the 170s. That is, they get louder with the same amount of power. For high volume movie listening, this is important. I enjoy the fact that I don't have to worry about my 340SE's being dynamic enough, due to their high efficiency. I've never heard the Sierra's, and will remain blissfully ignorant, as I don't have the space or money for a second system! ;)

If I was 70% home theater use instead of 50/50 I would probably just go with the 340s. But the fact that I listen to just as much music as I do movies has me leaning heavily towards the Sierras. They won't be as dynamic as the 340s but that shouldn't be a problem for me as I usually don't listen to movies overly loud. For movies I usually don't listen much louder than -20 on the avr. And a little louder for music. For music -15 is as loud as I go on the avr. Besides if they end up not being dynamic enough I can always invest in some monoblock amplifiers sometime in the future.

[flyingturtle]

I own both speakers as well, 340SE and non-NrT Sierra-1. Comparing 2-channel stereo use for music with 2-channel equipment without a subwoofer, I prefer the Sierra-1 over the 340SE by a significant margin. Imaging is better and there is more detail, plus I love the bass extension on the Sierra-1. I compared the two in two different rooms and both times I preferred the Sierra.

Hard to say what to do in your situation. I'm a music lover with 2-channel equipment so I went with the Sierra-1s (and also later to the Sierra Towers). I was so impressed, however, with the Ascend sound, that I wanted to upgrade my aging HT system, too. But having spent so much money recently on new pairs of Sierra-1s and Towers, it took awhile for me to upgrade the HT system as I had to go searching in the used market.

I really do like the 340SEs and, no mistake about it, they do well in music, too. In my 5.1 HT setup, I have the 340SE for L/R/C mains (with Outlaw LFM-1 EX sub, similar to a Hsu VTF-3mk3) and I often find myself listening to music after a round of movie watching. For home theater, I'm extremely pleased with the 340SEs, especially considering the cost. I have to say wasn't impressed at first with the 340SE, as I thought they sounded muted, until I figured out some placement problems, due to a left corner muddying up the imaging. Once I got that figured out, moving the left speaker further away from the wall, they sounded terrific. I do find that the 340SE is more finicky about placement than compared to the Sierra-1, at least in my (acoustically untreated) rooms. The Sierra-1 just sound good almost anywhere.

If you don't have a subwoofer in your HT system, then I'd lean toward the Sierra-1, if you do have then either is fine, again though with a slight edge to the Sierra-1 because of your music listening habits.

[kinggimp82]

I am waiting for someone to chime in on how the Sierras perform for home theater use. I would be running these on a 100 wpc onkyo with the hsu vtf-3 mk4 for my sub.

[curtis]

I am waiting for someone to chime in on how the Sierras perform for home theater use. I would be running these on a 100 wpc onkyo with the hsu vtf-3 mk4 for my sub.
They do HT great. They just require more power to play at the same SPL levels as the 340's.

[kinggimp82]

Curtis,

For HT where do you have your Sierras crossed over?

[curtis]

For HT where do you have your Sierras crossed over?
I think everything is set at 80hz right now.

When I had my Hsu VTF-3MK2, I had the mains at 60hz. The integration sounded better at that point. With the sound quality of the Rythmik, it sounds just as good at 80hz.

[MichaelG]

I think everything is set at 80hz right now.

When I had my Hsu VTF-3MK2, I had the mains at 60hz. The integration sounded better at that point. With the sound quality of the Rythmik, it sounds just as good at 80hz.

Curtis, your killing me! I have the VTF-3MK2 and have been struggling with upgradeitis again! Those Rythmik's are very tempting!

I started with the 340SE's and then upgraded to Sierra 1's and pushed the 340's to back surrounds and now I have upgraded the Sierra's to NRT's. Personally, I agree the 340's are a great system and if I had never heard the Sierra's (or hung out at this forum) I would have been very happy. That said I think there is a significant improvement in both Music and Theater with the upgraded Sierra's and could never go back! At least once a week I just openly say during a TV show, "I love my speakers!" If you can wait, its' worth it to go with the Sierra's in my opinion. They do require more power but my Onkyo 805 has no problem with it at all.

Michael

[kinggimp82]

I am 90% sure I will go with the Sierras. Just mulling over if the lower sensitivity of the Sierras will be an issue for me. My receiver is just 100 wpc and I want to make sure it will be able to play at the volume I am accustomed to. Earlier today I listened at the highest volume that I would actually listen to music at. I was at -13 on the avr and I was measuring on average 91 decibels on my spl meter with the highest peaks hitting 93 decibels. I was sitting approximately 6 feet away from the speakers. Does anyone know if I could hit that spl with the Sierras and a 100 wpc receiver.

[MichaelG]

My personal experience with the Sierras was the need to raise the volume by 6 to get the same output. At the time I was trying to match the Sierra's with a 340 center (which I later replaced with a Sierra). The 805 has 130 watts per channel so can't say how it might impact you but it is powering 6 speakers (3 Sierras across the front and 3 340's across the back).

[scape]

if you're only 6ft away I don't think you need to worry about the sierra's sensitivity rating.

this only deals with watts and speaker distance:

you'll experience up to a 6db loss for being 6ft away from the speakers. every 3 db (considered change in sound level) takes twice as much power as the last. so if your speaker is 90db@1watt/1meter then at 4 watts you get 6db increase, and at 6ft you'll get 90db of perceived spl.
it may take your avr let's say an average of 5 watts to each speaker to reach 90db at 6ft (for each speaker), it would only be about 8-10 watts for each sierra. that's an over-estimation too.

let's say your new speaker is 87db@1watt/1meter, 2 watts for 90db@1watt/1meter, 8 watts would be 90db at 6ft. remember this is not taking into account anything but wattage and speaker distances.

on the downside, i doubt your avr is even 100 watts total in power; about 60 of that is clean output. luckily in your scenario, you don't need too much. i also hear onkyo's are good at leveling sound off and performing compression to make things still sound loud for the listener.

sticking with 90db, it'd be about 20-25 watts maybe for the front 3 speakers (sierras and a 340 center.) i bet someone out there figured out the onkyo's power/distance factors already, and can tell you recommended speaker sensitivities.

now 93 db is a different story and you may hear sound degradation on some level as the amp may compress signals, but you shouldn't be listening to anything that loud for extended periods of time anyhow :)

[kinggimp82]

if you're only 6ft away I don't think you need to worry about the sierra's sensitivity rating.

this only deals with watts and speaker distance:

you'll experience up to a 6db loss for being 6ft away from the speakers. every 3 db (considered change in sound level) takes twice as much power as the last. so if your speaker is 90db@1watt/1meter then at 4 watts you get 6db increase, and at 6ft you'll get 90db of perceived spl.
it may take your avr let's say an average of 5 watts to each speaker to reach 90db at 6ft (for each speaker), it would only be about 8-10 watts for each sierra. that's an over-estimation too.

let's say your new speaker is 87db@1watt/1meter, 2 watts for 90db@1watt/1meter, 8 watts would be 90db at 6ft. remember this is not taking into account anything but wattage and speaker distances.

on the downside, i doubt your avr is even 100 watts total in power; about 60 of that is clean output. luckily in your scenario, you don't need too much. i also hear onkyo's are good at leveling sound off and performing compression to make things still sound loud for the listener.

sticking with 90db, it'd be about 20-25 watts maybe for the front 3 speakers (sierras and a 340 center.) i bet someone out there figured out the onkyo's power/distance factors already, and can tell you recommended speaker sensitivities.

now 93 db is a different story and you may hear sound degradation on some level as the amp may compress signals, but you shouldn't be listening to anything that loud for extended periods of time anyhow :)

To be clear when you say 93 decibels may cause sound degradation would that be if the spl was an average of 93 db or a peak of 93 db? I assume you mean that I can listen at an average of 90 decibels pretty easily but an average of 93 decibels would most likely cause sound degradation.

[scape]

well 93 db would mean to double the power required, which would be putting a rather large load on the amp. you likely wouldn't notice it unless for extended listening, onkyos are really great at handling such circumstances and if the amp was struggling it would work out a solution for instances such as peaks. this is assuming the amp was struggling, which may or may not be the case, but i think 50-60 watts could be a bit of a struggle and this possibly would be when distortion could begin to become noticeable.
they do rate the onkyo at THD of .08 at half power, not sure what half-power means without showing us total power and ohms/channels/etc but I assume its taking that from 100w (which is what many avr's are marketed as).

i don't think this link pertains to your avr, but is similar and may provide some insight: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-onkyo-tx-nr509-av-receiver
the last paragraph especially

[davef]

I am 90% sure I will go with the Sierras. Just mulling over if the lower sensitivity of the Sierras will be an issue for me. My receiver is just 100 wpc and I want to make sure it will be able to play at the volume I am accustomed to. Earlier today I listened at the highest volume that I would actually listen to music at. I was at -13 on the avr and I was measuring on average 91 decibels on my spl meter with the highest peaks hitting 93 decibels. I was sitting approximately 6 feet away from the speakers. Does anyone know if I could hit that spl with the Sierras and a 100 wpc receiver.

Hi Andrew,

At 6 feet back, to reach an average 91dB at your listening position the Sierra-1 (assuming output from a pair of speakers) will require less than 8 watts of power. In other words, yes -- you will easily be able to hit the same SPL as you do now - and with plenty of headroom to spare :)