Sierra-1 NrT in home demo

[edmondwolfman]

Hello all. I received an email from Dave today stating that the Spring Cleaning sale would end within the next 24 hours.

You've seen me post here off and on about not being happy with what I perceive as brightness/harshness from my Axiom M60s on some music and definately on female voices.

I sent a response to Dave and was hoping for a reply so I could possibly order the NrTs before the sale ends later today or tomorrow but I know he's busy and he may not see it until too late so I thought I would post here as some of you may be able to answer.

My listening position is small, about 7 feet from speaker to my ears so I was thinking of going to bookshelf style speakers and getting rid of my Axiom towers and that may work better.

If I do order the Sierra-1 NrTs they would need to sound quite a bit better than my Axioms or I wouldn't be able to justify the purchase with my wife :(

If you order the speakers for an in home demo and end up having to send them back would I just be out the shipping from and to?

I'm a serious buyer and wouldn't order if I didn't have good intentions but part of me would feel bad if I had to send them back.

Also if I ordered today with the NrT upgrade what would eta be?

I know some of these things no one can answer but Dave but maybe he will see this post before he sees these questions in email.

[Mag_Neato]

Have you tried calling Ascend? They usually answer, and if Dave is there he will usually talk to you.

[edmondwolfman]

You know, I tried to call earlier and got no answer but looking just now at the telephone number again I notice they don't open until 10:30 PDT and I called around 11:30 CDT so they weren't open yet. I'll call again if I don't get an email shortly.

[billy p]

Hello all. I received an email from Dave today stating that the Spring Cleaning sale would end within the next 24 hours.

You've seen me post here off and on about not being happy with what I perceive as brightness/harshness from my Axiom M60s on some music and definately on female voices.

I sent a response to Dave and was hoping for a reply so I could possibly order the NrTs before the sale ends later today or tomorrow but I know he's busy and he may not see it until too late so I thought I would post here as some of you may be able to answer.

My listening position is small, about 7 feet from speaker to my ears so I was thinking of going to bookshelf style speakers and getting rid of my Axiom towers and that may work better.

If I do order the Sierra-1 NrTs they would need to sound quite a bit better than my Axioms or I wouldn't be able to justify the purchase with my wife :(

If you order the speakers for an in home demo and end up having to send them back would I just be out the shipping from and to?

I'm a serious buyer and wouldn't order if I didn't have good intentions but part of me would feel bad if I had to send them back.

Also if I ordered today with the NrT upgrade what would eta be?

I know some of these things no one can answer but Dave but maybe he will see this post before he sees these questions in email.

Trust me you won't be sorry....;). I recently sold my Energy RC and decided to go with an inwall solution for H/T so I purchased some Axiom speakers. I'm currently using w22's up front and I have A/B them against my Sierra's using the exact same source material...let just say it wasn't difficult telling them apart....the Axioms sounded as if they had a cold...lol. Don't get me wrong I enjoy my Axiom HT setup, but when I swiched from my RC's to the Axiom's it wasn't night and day there were sultle differences ...with the Sierra's it was instantly WOW:D.

Just my 2 cents...:)

[davef]

Hi Guys,

Sorry -- we had a complete power outage this side of town and our phone lines and computers were down for many hours. I am not sure what caused this, it is a beautiful day today--- but as of now, (12:20pm PST), everything is restored :)

[edmondwolfman]

Ok, I ordered the Sierra-1 NrTs today and may have by the end of next week.

I'm going to compare them to my current speakers, Axiom M60v2s and another as yet mentioned stand mount.

I plan an listening to them as full size just to hear what they sound like without a sub but the bottom line is that I run my HSU ULS-15 with the Axioms always, crossed over around 70Hz, so I will eventually setup the NrTs to run the same way so I can get an apples to apples comparison.

The comparison will not involve the bottom range as I use a sub for that but instead will concentrate on everything from 60 or 70Hz up. The Axioms seem to be harsh in the upper registers and female voices, I guess because of the metal dome tweeter and that is what I'm looking to replace.

With that said, the Sierra-1 NrTs need to be substantially better sounding so I can justify spending money on another pair of speakers (wife involved here :( )

Does that crossover point sound fair or should it be tweaked up or down? Placement is pretty much set in stone as far as left and right and only have a little leeway from front to back so they will have to sit in exactly the same place as the Axioms and hopefully that will be good placement.

Maybe a little help here. I use an Emotiva RPA-2 amp and a USP-1 preamp with bass management. The pre has low pass and high pass pots so I can tell the pre to send up to (for example) 70Hz to the sub and down to 60 or 65 to the main speakers. Is that too much of an overlap? Should the numbers be the same as in...60 and below to sub and 60 and above to mains?

Any thoughts appreciated.

[curtis]

I think the crossover is fair....should be a very interesting listen.

[edmondwolfman]

I'm looking forward to it. I know the room and placement has a lot to do with how speakers sound and I hope the space I have puts the NrTs in their sweet spot because I can't move them around. They either sound good there or they don't.

I'm hoping that since my listening area is so small (around 7' from speaker to ear) that a 2 way design will integrate there better than the 3 way towers do.

[edmondwolfman]

Ok here is the deal. I was wanting to demo some stand mount speakers in place of my Axiom M60v2 towers and do it while on vacation in August. I had my mind made up to audition the Salk Songtowers but after my wife found out they would be close to 10" taller than my Axioms she freaked out...WAF anyone;) The Sierra-1 NrTs were what I had narrowed it down to. I emailed Dave on July 3rd and asked if I could get the Sierra-1 NrTs now and what would be the eta. I didn't hear from him for a few days so I erroneously thought that they didn't have any Sierra NrTs available for the near future and since I wanted to devote a good amount of time during my upcoming vacation evaluating some standmounts I went ahead and ordered the Swan D2.1se+Customs. I then received a reply from Dave on July 8th answering all my questions and thought "crap" I've already ordered something else. I realize Dave is very busy and has a lot going on and I'm a little impatient sometimes!

After much thought and everyone always saying "get the speakers you are interested in to your home, preferably at the same time and compare them in your environment, with your own electronics and choose the one that sounds best there" I decided to go ahead and order the Sierra-1 NrTs also. Hopefully I will have both and can compare side by side and pick what is best for me. Naturally one or the other will have to be returned and I was agonizing over how I would feel about ordering new speakers and then returning them but after conversing with Joe at AudioInsider and Dina at Ascend I understand that's just part of the business and that's why they allow 30 day in home demos. They truly do want the customer to be happy with the purchase. In each case I was told I would only be out the shipping costs from and to.

I've seen reviews exclaiming the Swans best the Sierra's and others stating that the Sierras are better than the Swans but I don't believe I've seen a comparison between the Swan Customs and the Ascend NrTs. Whichever one sounds best in my setup will get to stay. I don't have any leeway at all (see picture below). Each set will have to sit exactly where my Axioms currently are standing. They will be between 5 1/2' and 6' apart with a cabinet and plasma between them and about 22" from the back of the speaker to the wall so whichever works best will be the winner for me. I do have the speakers pulled all the way forward so that there is no cabinet between the drivers. The sub on the right is next to a fireplace hearth and the speaker on the left is approaching a hallway. The speakers are only about 7' from speaker to ear so I can't pull them out into the room anymore either. It might be that one will sound best in my situation where if I had room to move them out, left and right etc. the other one might turn out to be better. Bottom line is that the one I pick may not actually be able to beat the other in a shootout under perfect conditions and many may argue that I "chose the wrong speakers" but the ones I choose will be best for me.

I hope they show up around the end of next week.

Any recommendations on music that will put each of the speakers through their paces?


http://www.bobbymiller.net/stereosetup24mod.jpg

[bdfin]

I use non NrT Sierras LCR in a small room. They are only separated about 7.5 feet due to room limitations and my listening distance varies from as close as 5 ft. to about 8 ft. (once again due to room limitations) and they sound great. After you get done with your A/B comparison you may want to move them to where you would think the optimum position is and tweak a little here and there and just keep listening. After getting mine, I listened to more music in the first few days than I had in a long time, and I usually listen almost everyday anyways..........Enjoy.

[edmondwolfman]

I use non NrT Sierras LCR in a small room. They are only separated about 7.5 feet due to room limitations and my listening distance varies from as close as 5 ft. to about 8 ft. (once again due to room limitations) and they sound great. After you get done with your A/B comparison you may want to move them to where you would think the optimum position is and tweak a little here and there and just keep listening. After getting mine, I listened to more music in the first few days than I had in a long time, and I usually listen almost everyday anyways..........Enjoy.

Since your listening area is a similar size to mine I was wondering if you have them straight out or pointed inward toward you seat?

[bdfin]

I have them slightly toed in, but you will obviously want to experiment a little there. My setup is anything but ideal. They are too close to side walls, there's only about 6 to 8 " of free air behind them, they are in about a 20" deep bedroom closet actually, (with no doors on front obviously ). I think having them the right height helps compensate for the other problems. Because of room size and source differences I do sometimes have to adjust sub volume a little bit as it is way too much for this room, but I can always find a blend point w/o too much issue, as the sub sits relatively close to my listening spot ( room limitations again ). Not having heard your current setup I can't say whether you'll find them ( NrT's ) better or not, but if I had to put in a blind wager, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

[NegativeEntropy]

Any recommendations on music that will put each of the speakers through their paces?


Music: I suggest pieces you know very well and ones that cover the full range of your listening habits and preferably frequency response (i.e. include some organ or other low freq stuff if it's in your library).

I listen to a baseline with a good set of headphones (Senn HD580 in my case) because that's the most detailed reproduction instrument I have then compare the details to other speakers. I will often find I hear things (details) with the Senns on that I had not/could not noticed on regular speakers.

Other: make sure to level match the speakers. I do not recall the exact details, but our brains perceive louder as better, so at the same volume setting, the more efficient speaker will have an unfair advantage (assuming max volume is not an issue for the less efficient speakers).

I'm not sure if you'll need to "break in " the speakers at all (e.g. leave them playing for X hours at moderate volume) so the sound you hear will be representative of the long term result.

Last: have fun!

[soundseeker]

I'm not sure if you'll need to "break in " the speakers at all (e.g. leave them playing for X hours at moderate volume) so the sound you hear will be representative of the long term result.

I know there are opinions both ways regarding break-in. My Sierras (non NrT) seemed to improve after around 10-15 hours of use.

[scape]

my cbm's and cmt relaxed and opened up around 10 hours. midbass especially

[edmondwolfman]

Do any of you guys know if the 30 day in home demo starts when I sign for the speakers from UPS or the day they ship?

[markenki]

Do any of you guys know if the 30 day in home demo starts when I sign for the speakers from UPS or the day they ship?

From http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/support/30dayguar.html:



A return authorization number must be obtained from an authorized representative of Ascend Acoustics within 30 days of receiving your product.


Regards,

Mark

[curtis]

Already thinking of returning them?

[edmondwolfman]

Absolutely not but I do have 2 different brands coming to go head to head and 1 of them will definately go back, both if they don't work in my setup and I just don't want to run over my 30 day window and I want to use as much of my 30 days as possible to evaluate and compare.

With that being said I think either will outperform the Axioms I currently have....but we will see.

[billy p]

Absolutely not but I do have 2 different brands coming to go head to head and 1 of them will definately go back, both if they don't work in my setup and I just don't want to run over my 30 day window and I want to use as much of my 30 days as possible to evaluate and compare.

With that being said I think either will outperform the Axioms I currently have....but we will see.

When do you expect the new speakers to arrive? I don't know how the Sierra's should perfrom against the Swans...I'll await your impressions but I am pretty sure you'll prefer the Sierra's over the M60.

I use the 22's with my sub at 90hz because of their limitations and I've A/B them running my Sierra's fullrange... even without the sub they put a BIG smile on my face...:D.

Good luck in making your final decision...Bill...:)

[curtis]

Absolutely not but I do have 2 different brands coming to go head to head and 1 of them will definately go back, both if they don't work in my setup and I just don't want to run over my 30 day window and I want to use as much of my 30 days as possible to evaluate and compare.

With that being said I think either will outperform the Axioms I currently have....but we will see.
Ahh...got it.

[edmondwolfman]

When do you expect the new speakers to arrive? I don't know how the Sierra's should perfrom against the Swans...I'll await your impressions but I am pretty sure you'll prefer the Sierra's over the M60.

I use the 22's with my sub at 90hz because of their limitations and I've A/B them running my Sierra's fullrange... even without the sub they put a BIG smile on my face...:D.

Good luck in making your final decision...Bill...:)


Well, the UPS site says the Sierra-1 Nrts will be here on Friday. I was told the swan d2.1se+ customs would be about a week behind but I saw somewhere that the skiing ninja crossovers were sold out and they were trying to build more to meet demand so hopefully they will arrive when I was told they would.

I understand they are both excellent speakers. As I said in a previous post I thought the Sierras with the NrT upgrade were not available at this time. I thought for some reason that the tweeters, crossovers etc. were being sold to existing owners so they could upgrade. Since I thought they weren't available I ordered the Swans to demo and then about 3 days later I received an email from Dave telling me they were available now.

Had I known that before I ordered the Swans I probably would have just ordered the Sierras and compared them to what I have now but having already ordered the Swans I still wanted to hear the Sierra-1 NrTs and after speaking with Dina I decided to go ahead and order them and have both on hand for comparison purposes. I was told after all that I should get what I am considering in my home with my electronics and that that was what the 30 day in home demo was all about.

Also you can see from the picture I posted previously that I have no room whatsoever to play with placement. Whichever speaker sounds best sitting where the Axioms currently sit is the winner. :D

[edmondwolfman]

Sierra Nrts arrived today via UPS. I setup the stands and hooked them up immediately. I let them play for just a little while and threw on some music I'm familiar with...sounded good so I added a little volume and thought "oh man I'm going to have to order the port plugs". Then I realized that the Axioms had a 93 dB in room response and the little Sierras are 87 dB so when I turned up the volume which was adjusted to play with the Axioms the HSU-15 subwoofer was WAY too loud.

I haven't worked with adjusting the subwoofer yet. I moved the cables on my preamp from the bass management terminals to the full terminals and turned off the subwoofer for now, just to give them some break in. Currently have some "House" music pumping through and although I've heard people say it, I'm very surprised how low and hard hitting the base is coming from just the Sierras. I don't listen to that kind of music but it should work pretty well to "loosen" those babies up.

After some break in I'm going to run them full and compare side by side with the Axioms M60s running full. May not be completely fair as the Axioms are much larger and are rated lower in the bass freqs but bass isn't where I'm looking to make the difference, I have a sub I can blend in for that.

The Swans probably won't be here for another week or so and I think I like it that way. That will give me time to get the Sierras some play time, get used to them and do side by side evaluation with my Axioms. If I had all three speakers sitting there at the same time I would probably be moving the speaker wires so often I would get confused :confused:

If you want to test your bass queue up Bela Fleck's Flight of the Cosmic Hippo :eek:

[TomK]

Edmond,
Having someone switch between the speakers while you remain seated might be helpful. If it were me I would NOT want to know which speakers were playing. Eyes closed and no peeking. A double blind test is even better but much more difficult to set up. Also, the levels have to be very close as the louder one usually sounds better. Anyway you've left us with a cliff hanger. Can't wait for Part II and your final listening test.
Tom

[billy p]

^^^After level matching both speakers at ~80db I could really hear how much more I preferred the Sierra's. The Axioms did play louder at the same volume switching back and forth, only after using my RSM I noticed the 22's were about 3-4dbs louder in my room. Having owned both speakers about equal time it was easy for me to not have formed any bias...as I've stated before I love the my Sierras....I like my Axioms.:D

Looking forward to Edmonds finding?

Regards, Bill

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k146/parsal106/th_01.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k146/parsal106/?action=view&current=01.jpg)



http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k146/parsal106/th_IMG_0513.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k146/parsal106/?action=view&current=IMG_0513.jpg)

PS: I had placed the Sierras on stands, placement wasn't ideal only about 6ft apart the Axioms are about 8ft.

[edmondwolfman]

I've been using an SP meter also and trying to run around 80 to 85. Have "stuff" running through the Sierras to help break in (if that really occurs) and will do more listening later tonight. Headed to the vinyl store for a little while :D

At one point I though the Sierra's were a little "in my face" but after hooking Axioms back up and then changing back again I realized I was just hearing more detail than before. It's hard to start listening to something different when you have been listening to a different setup for a couple of years especially only having the new speakers for a few hours:)

I'll do more comparison but I think I am leaning toward the Sierra's over the Axioms already. I know I need to let them break in for another few days and listen to them exclusively for a while which I will do. After a few more comparisons to the Axioms I'm going to remove the Axioms from the room and use the Sierras for everything and I should have a good feel for them after a couple of weeks.

Swans wont be here until week after next probably so I should be accustomed to the Sierras by then. I did put on some vinyl last night after the wife went to bed. I was able to put my seat a little farther back and dead center and I was impressed with what I heard and I feel it will just get better as the Sierras and my ears get broken in/acclimated.

[billy p]

Deja vu....:o. I had the exact same experience going from EnergyRc's(~3yrs)>Axiom, just not sure I liked Axioms more but there was no turning back because they are inwalls. Once I get my dedicated room setup for the Sierra's I'll be spending most of my time in there....:cool:.

Keep us posted...:)

[edmondwolfman]

Stayed up until around 2 A.M. last night listening to 2 channel music. No fatigue at all. Looked up and it was 2 :) I should have said 2.1 music. I use a USP-1 (Emotiva) for 2 channel music so no tone controls. I use the base management and crossover around 65 to 70 Hz.

Put in Bluray of Roy Orbison Black and White Nights this afternoon and it sounded very good even though I haven't run the Audyssey with my Denon to level everything out, I just made some manual adjustments. Should be much better once Audyssey is run. If I haven't said so before here, that Bluray is awsome.


Put on the latest Rambo earlier and again I haven't run Audyssey yet but I think HT is going to be just fine using the smaller Sierras as the FL and FR.

More to come.

[JustaSheep]

So, EdmondWolfman, how does the story end??? Which speakers are still in your house and why?

[edmondwolfman]

I actually still have the Axioms here as well as the Sierra-1 NrTs and the Swan D2.1se+Customs (which just arrived a week ago). I'll try to find time to update this post this weekend with some observations.

[edmondwolfman]

Well the Sierra-1 NrTs aren't going to get to stay but I can tell you it has way more to do with my room than with the NrTs. I said all along that whatever I decide to purchase must sound a lot better than what I have and the condition that would affect it most was my room. These little speakers really pull the detail out of the music, give the instruments a powerful and substantial presence and sound wonderful in a good listening environment. I told Dina in an email today that honestly I may never find a speaker that sounds good in the listening area I have. Below is part of the email I sent her earlier today.

"Dina, regrettably I need to get an RMA from you for the Sierra-1 NrTs and the TP-24 stands. Attached is the latest Sales Order PDF.

I can tell you that these are wonderful speakers visually as well as audibly and I can unequivocally say that there is nothing wrong with the way they sound but it is the way they sound in my listening space. In my space they come across as too forward. If I put them in their little white bags and into their shipping box and take them across town to a friend’s house that has a theater room (treatments and carpeting on the floor) and can sit back around 14’ or so they sound incredible and if they sounded that way in my room it would have been a final sale on the first day.

I appreciate the in home demo and again I can’t state how great they sound in an adequate room, I just don’t have the room to let them shine. Honestly I’m not sure any speakers will sound great with what I have to work with and since my wife decorated every inch of our house, me putting up wall treatments, rugs on the floor, etc. is out of the question :("

I can truthfully say that if I ever move or add a music room the Sierra-1 NrTs would be welcome back.

[billy p]

I'm honestly surprised in your decision to return the Sierra's but I do understand...:). I've finally set them up in another room for a 2ch set up...it's smaller in scale and therefore more intimate compared to my H/T room. Fwiw...neither of my rooms are acoustically treated...outside of your usual area rugs and window coverings I don't believe in extra threatments but they sound much better in their new environment that's for sure....:D.

Have you made a decision on the Swans yet?

Regards, Bill...:)

[edmondwolfman]

I'm honestly surprised in your decision to return the Sierra's but I do understand...:). I've finally set them up in another room for a 2ch set up...it's smaller in scale and therefore more intimate compared to my H/T room. Fwiw...neither of my rooms are acoustically treated...outside of your usual area rugs and window coverings I don't believe in extra threatments but they sound much better in their new environment that's for sure....:D.

Have you made a decision on the Swans yet?

Regards, Bill...:)

No. Since the Swans were ordered before the Sierras but arrived 2 weeks later than the Sierras I decided to completely evaluate the Sierras in my living room and if they fit the bill I was going to give them first chance. As I said, I listened to the Ascends at a friends house in his theater room and they sounded great but they sounded different in my room. I don't have a choice of setting them up in a different room or I would. There is only 1 place in my house for them and they also have to be part of my HT. And also as I said if I move or add a music room the Ascends will be at the top of my list for my 2 channel music, I thought they sounded that good in a decent room.

[curtis]

From reading this, it seems like the standard Sierra-1 would be a better fit.