SE WI Ascend Tower GTG

[merrymaid520]

Hey fellow ascend owners!

I am hosting a mini listening event with my new Towers on Saturday 4/2 around noon. If any of you are looking to attend, please PM me for more information.

The plan is to demo the Towers of course among other speakers, possibly some Totems, and hopefully some Salks if I can talk some of my local buddies into bringing theirs:)

I live about 30 miles west of Milwaukee in East Troy.

Thanks,
Brandon

[merrymaid520]

Update,
Attendees:
Nuance from AVS
TJHUB from AVS
Chicubs - here
Dogearz - AVS

Chicubs will be bringing along some Selah speakers as well.

If anyone else is interested, let me know! Paul, forgot to tell you to bring any demo music you like.

Thanks,
Brandon

[Mag_Neato]

Soooooo................it's the day after. We need a bone!!

[merrymaid520]

Sorry guys, I posted this in the AVS thread:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/ascendandht2-tltogether.jpg
Salk HT2-TL's and Ascend Towers(red I think)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/fullrangemeasurmentsascendtowersgtg.jpg
Ascend Towers full range measurement running full range no sub (red=average of L&R, Green=left, & Blue=right)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6222.jpg
The crew (not including me)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6221.jpg
Salks....notice the temporary pink absorption device:)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6220.jpg
Ascends

[merrymaid520]

From AVS again:
Thanks Terry for the comments! *I enjoyed hosting another GTG and listening to some great tunes!

My impressions of your HT2-TL's are that they are huge and sound awesome:) *Its hard to put their "sound" into words but all I can say is all frequencies are very balanced, nothing is under/over emphasized. *The Ribbon tweet was extremely smooth, never harsh, and portrayed great detail. *The bass of course was impressive. *Overall, a speaker that has no flavor, specific character, or way about it, it just reproduces great music!

I am thankful the attendees enjoyed my Ascend Towers. *They obviously could not compete down low, but given their size compared to the Salks, its a given. *I did feel they had a bit more mid bass slam to them, like they hit harder on certain percussion(drum type) instruments than the Salks. *Probably has something to do with the TL cabinet vs the bass reflex cabinet design. *The mids to me on the Ascends are great, I like them to be a bit forward, with a good weight to them. *Much better than the sierra-1, more detail as well. *The Salks here also sounded very good, the mids were extremely smooth and detailed and probably flattter than the ascends meaning they dont stand out as much. *I think again, personal preference here, considering I like mids to be a hair forward. **

*As for the highs compared to the Salks, I am not sure I can put it into words other than they sound different. *Some tracks sounded very similar while others varied a bit. *I have always liked the Ribbon in the Salks and was a big fan of the NrT tweet over the standard sierra-1 tweeter. *If I had to summarize the highs between the two, I would say they both are some of the best sounding tweeters in their respective class (Ribbon & soft dome) I have ever heard. *I think it almost comes down to personal preference here, meaning there's not right or wrong.

In fact when speaking to Jim Salk prior to when I had preordered the SongTowers long ago(which of course was canceled), I was debating whether to get the dome or ribbon tweet and he felt some prefer one over the other depending on tastes and music you typically listen to. *I think this holds true based on my observations posted above. *I did forget to add, the dome tweeters typically have a bit wider dispersion as well, I believe I did notice this slightly when not in the sweet spot.

One of the most unusual aspects of this whole day were the full range measurements we took of both speakers using two different mic setups. * After the boys found the sweet spot for speaker placement, we took full range sweeps of each pair of speakers both L, R, then both running. *It was almost shocking that not only my room was pretty flat, but that the Salks and Ascend measured almost identical except below 30hz. *I will post pics later on.

The plan going forward is to bring my Towers up to Terry's place to hear them in a separate room on different gear. *

Thanks to Alex as well, we enjoyed his company, and hope he had a good time!

Thanks,
Brandon

[Mag_Neato]

Thanks for the update Brandon!

Based on your listening thus far, if you had the scratch would you purchase the HT2-TL's in place of the Ascends? I realize they are more than twice the price and not really a fair comparison. Do you think they are twice the speaker?

Now if that is not a loaded question I don't know what is!!;)

[edmondwolfman]

Thanks for the update Brandon!

Based on your listening thus far, if you had the scratch would you purchase the HT2-TL's in place of the Ascends? I realize they are more than twice the price and not really a fair comparison. Do you think they are twice the speaker?

Now if that is not a loaded question I don't know what is!!;)

That's kinda like "When did you quit beating your wife?" :D

[edmondwolfman]

Thanks for the update Brandon!

Based on your listening thus far, if you had the scratch would you purchase the HT2-TL's in place of the Ascends? I realize they are more than twice the price and not really a fair comparison. Do you think they are twice the speaker?

Now if that is not a loaded question I don't know what is!!;)

Kinda like "do you still beat your wife" :D

[merrymaid520]

Thanks for the update Brandon!

Based on your listening thus far, if you had the scratch would you purchase the HT2-TL's in place of the Ascends? I realize they are more than twice the price and not really a fair comparison. Do you think they are twice the speaker?

Now if that is not a loaded question I don't know what is!!;)

Pulling teeth here;)
I simply cannot afford the HT2-TL's if that answers your question:p As most things audio, price does not always correlate to quality, so no, they are not "twice" the speaker. Based on some of the comments floating around AVS as well, sometimes these purchases come down to personal preferences and tastes.

[edmondwolfman]

Hey Merry, did the Songtowers not make it to the GTG?

[merrymaid520]

Hey Merry, did the Songtowers not make it to the GTG?

Negative, only the HT2-TL's. We have a future GTG planned for end of the month where we plan to goto TJHUB's place. Attending will hopefully be the SongTowers(ribbon version), my towers, maybe some Paradigm Sigs, etc.

[Mag_Neato]

brandon,
Keep this in mind: TJHUB's setup is optimized for his Salks. Those have ribbon tweeters. I believe the dispersion pattern of a ribbon is somewhat limited vertically. I may just be thinking of the time I listened to some Martin Logans. When I stood up the highs literally disappeared. This is great if you stay in the sweet spot. Also, it pretty much eliminates ceiling reflections. Since the Ascends use a dome tweeter this will most likely create a different response in his room. This may also be a possible explaination as to why there was such a drastic difference when you guys listened at your place.

Just food for thought!

[merrymaid520]

brandon,
Keep this in mind: TJHUB's setup is optimized for his Salks. Those have ribbon tweeters. I believe the dispersion pattern of a ribbon is somewhat limited vertically. I may just be thinking of the time I listened to some Martin Logans. When I stood up the highs literally disappeared. This is great if you stay in the sweet spot. Also, it pretty much eliminates ceiling reflections. Since the Ascends use a dome tweeter this will most likely create a different response in his room. This may also be a possible explaination as to why there was such a drastic difference when you guys listened at your place.

Just food for thought!

Good point! After the GTG and sifting through the various posts here and AVS, I have come to realize everyones tastes are different, people prefer certain gear, and rooms vary the sound tremendously. With all of these variables, not one is neccesarily right or wrong, only different. I like my Towers and think they sound quite a bit better than the sierras in the same spot. I am curious to hear them in another room and whether I will like the sound or not. Who knows, one mans "flat" room may sound bad to anothers peaky room.

Just proves the point even more that one must listen to the speakers in "Their" room before purchasing.

[jakewash]

Thanks for taking the time to post about your gtg, it looked like a fun time. Those Salk's are much larger than I thought they would be. I really like the look of the new Ascend floorstanders.

Far too many people fail to realize the room is the second biggest component affecting the sound from their speakers, the first obviously is the speakers themselves.

[TomK]

Merrymaid 520,
When listening to the Ascend Towers were there times when you felt that a subwoofer was needed? I am refering to music listening not movies for low sound effects. I think I remember Dave saying that he preffered the Towers without a SW for music but what's your opinion.

[merrymaid520]

Merrymaid 520,
When listening to the Ascend Towers were there times when you felt that a subwoofer was needed? I am refering to music listening not movies for low sound effects. I think I remember Dave saying that he preffered the Towers without a SW for music but what's your opinion.

A sub is not needed with the towers although I still prefer listening to them with my Eq'ed Rythmik sub. Personal preference I guess.

[RicardoJoa]

Im just curious, base on my reading from merrymaid and Dave as well, it seems that the tower are desinged with a bit emphasis on the mid. I always thought that Dave philosphy was about being natural and neutral. I understand that the goal of the tower was emphasising on high and mid range. Cant a natural and neutral desing offer just as good mid and highs?

[curtis]

Im just curious, base on my reading from merrymaid and Dave as well, it seems that the tower are desinged with a bit emphasis on the mid. I always thought that Dave philosphy was about being natural and neutral. I understand that the goal of the tower was emphasising on high and mid range. Cant a natural and neutral desing offer just as good mid and highs?
merrymaid's comment was in relation to the Salk and original Sierra in his room.

The tower is very neutral. The new dedicated midrange driver does not emphasize the mids, but makes them "better".

You can see in Dave's posted FR that the mids are not emphasized.

[Mike^S]

My interpretation is that Dave focused on improving the mids and highs. Bass output and extension was not the priority.

[merrymaid520]

merrymaid's comment was in relation to the Salk and original Sierra in his room.

The tower is very neutral. The new dedicated midrange driver does not emphasize the mids, but makes them "better".

You can see in Dave's posted FR that the mids are not emphasized.

I concur. I was stating my thoughts in comparison to the sierras and HT2 TL's.

[RicardoJoa]

Good to hear that. So when it is going to be the next GTG, cant wait to hear more reviews.

[davef]

Im just curious, base on my reading from merrymaid and Dave as well, it seems that the tower are desinged with a bit emphasis on the mid. I always thought that Dave philosphy was about being natural and neutral. I understand that the goal of the tower was emphasising on high and mid range. Cant a natural and neutral desing offer just as good mid and highs?

Hi Ricardo --

One of the primary goals for the tower was improved midrange performance compared to the Sierra-1 (clarity, detail and imaging.) While the towers sound slightly more forward when compared to the Sierra-1, this is due to dispersion improvements that result in better imaging -- this is not midrange "emphasis". In fact, based on comparing anechoic measurements between the Sierra-1 and the tower, the tower actually has a flatter midrange response.

The tower is extremely neutral and natural sounding, more so than our Sierra-1.

Hope this makes sense and please feel free to contact me directly if you have any additional questions or concerns.

[TJHUB]

brandon,
Keep this in mind: TJHUB's setup is optimized for his Salks. Those have ribbon tweeters. I believe the dispersion pattern of a ribbon is somewhat limited vertically. I may just be thinking of the time I listened to some Martin Logans. When I stood up the highs literally disappeared. This is great if you stay in the sweet spot. Also, it pretty much eliminates ceiling reflections. Since the Ascends use a dome tweeter this will most likely create a different response in his room. This may also be a possible explaination as to why there was such a drastic difference when you guys listened at your place.

Just food for thought!

Hey guys. I thought I'd make some comments on this forum to keep you Ascend fans in check. ;)

As far as the above post, you may be right about reflections and dispersion, but that's what makes my room great. I have distant side walls and a high cathedral ceiling which I think makes my room sound pretty great. I also have decent room treatments consisting of many 4" thick acoustic panels. I think this should do what we're all hoping which is give the Ascend Towers the best environment we can give to perform their best.

My setup may be tweaked for my Salk HT2-TL's, but that was never my focus. I don't think anyone can or should argue that the HT2-TL is a fantastic speaker. I haven't heard anything "better" since owning them. I'm sure there is better, but I'm also certain I can't afford it. What I do know is that my setup is tweaked for ultimate clarity and balance. I have the best sound stage and separation I've ever had. I expect that all of the attendee's hear that from all the speakers at the GTG or I will be personally disappointed. I think I've done a fantastic job with the mix of gear I have right now and I think the sound is magical for most anything I play. I certainly have never had sound even close to what I have now and that includes the first 1-1/2 years I had my Salk's.

One note I'd like to make is that I've had two different pairs of my own speakers at Brandon's place and they always sound "off" to me. I can't explain it better than to say that there is some sort of distortion that exists from room reflections (I'm guessing) and possibly the difference in front end electronics. I will be honest and say I do NOT think the SB Touch that Brandon uses is a good sounding source, especially using it's analog outs. Even through my DAC, I couldn't find any love for for the Touch when I had one. I also realize that this goes against popular opinion of the Touch.

From my visit to Brandon's place, I can easily state that the Towers are FAR better all around than the Sierra-1. Since the Sierra is a decent speaker, this should be taken as a compliment. I think the tweeter is a huge improvement by itself. If this is the new tweeter in the Sierra, than that too is a much better speaker from the ones I tried a couple of years ago.

Overall, I'm expecting the Towers to perform very well in room. I really hope they do!

I think Brandon would agree here, but my HT2-TL's crushed the Ascend Towers in the bass department. My only point for making this statement is that even though the HT2-TL's have such impressive bass down to 20Hz in Brandon's room as well as mine, I too prefer the sound of my EQ'd subs. There is more weight to the bass and overall tone of the speakers. I've tried at least 10 different times over the last couple of years to run my Salk's full range and I always go back to using subs for music. I now have the best bass I've ever heard anywhere with my dual 18" TC Sounds LMS Ultra's in DIY 24" cube, sealed boxes. They amaze me every time I listen now. I'll find out what the group thinks of them when they are here for the GTG.

The GTG next Saturday should be fun. We hope to have several speakers to listen to, so we'll be busy. I'm sure Brandon will keep you guys posted. :)

Geez! I just saw my old signature. The only things I still have are the Speaker Craft in-walls and the MX-500 remote.

[merrymaid520]

Terry,
Found your way back over in here, ha! Hopefully your room(and gear) does all of the speakers in attendance justice, so everyone can enjoy and have a great time!

I will bring the SB Touch for comparison purposes to see what everyone thinks. I agree with you on the HT2-TL's going lower in the bass region although I must say the Ascend Towers hit just as hard, very punchy. The TL design to me has always been a little lacking in this department, no offense Terry or Nuance:) After hearing the SongTowers and your HT2-TL's, I felt the same way.

One week to go!

B

[Reflections1]

Brandon and the rest of the guys from Wisconsin are costing me money with the talk of the equipment you have !! Ha Ha! Just had to order a Parasound 2100 stereo pre amp from AV Science, will be getting it this week. That will keep me busy for a while setting up. Now I just need the reviews for the GTG next weekend and the towers to start production. Wish i could be there but i live in SW Florida not exactly a hop skip and a jump. Thanks again for all the updates. Any updates Dave F.??

[merrymaid520]

Brandon and the rest of the guys from Wisconsin are costing me money with the talk of the equipment you have !! Ha Ha! Just had to order a Parasound 2100 stereo pre amp from AV Science, will be getting it this week. That will keep me busy for a while setting up. Now I just need the reviews for the GTG next weekend and the towers to start production. Wish i could be there but i live in SW Florida not exactly a hop skip and a jump. Thanks again for all the updates. Any updates Dave F.??

Sorry:o
:D
You will love the 2100, its an awesome preamp especially for the price on AVS! If you are coming from an AVR, the 2100 will easily trump it on all accounts. Keep us posted on your thoughts, and I will do the same after next weekend.

B

[Reflections1]

Sorry:o
:D
You will love the 2100, its an awesome preamp especially for the price on AVS! If you are coming from an AVR, the 2100 will easily trump it on all accounts. Keep us posted on your thoughts, and I will do the same after next weekend.

B


I presently am using a Marantz sr6003 as a preamp to an Emotiva xpa-5. am patiently waiting for new toy. Will let you know thanks Brandon.

Rich

[Sam1000]

Sorry:o
:D
You will love the 2100, its an awesome preamp especially for the price on AVS! If you are coming from an AVR, the 2100 will easily trump it on all accounts. Keep us posted on your thoughts, and I will do the same after next weekend.

B

hmm. Is 2100 on sale on AVS? I could not find it.

[Reflections1]

hmm. Is 2100 on sale on AVS? I could not find it.

Sam i called the main # and i ordered thru Benito ext 110. Very happy with price. i'm sure you'll be surprised.

Rich

[Mag_Neato]

Hey guys. I thought I'd make some comments on this forum to keep you Ascend fans in check. ;)

As far as the above post, you may be right about reflections and dispersion, but that's what makes my room great. I have distant side walls and a high cathedral ceiling which I think makes my room sound pretty great. I also have decent room treatments consisting of many 4" thick acoustic panels. I think this should do what we're all hoping which is give the Ascend Towers the best environment we can give to perform their best.

My setup may be tweaked for my Salk HT2-TL's, but that was never my focus. I don't think anyone can or should argue that the HT2-TL is a fantastic speaker. I haven't heard anything "better" since owning them. I'm sure there is better, but I'm also certain I can't afford it. What I do know is that my setup is tweaked for ultimate clarity and balance. I have the best sound stage and separation I've ever had. I expect that all of the attendee's hear that from all the speakers at the GTG or I will be personally disappointed. I think I've done a fantastic job with the mix of gear I have right now and I think the sound is magical for most anything I play. I certainly have never had sound even close to what I have now and that includes the first 1-1/2 years I had my Salk's.

One note I'd like to make is that I've had two different pairs of my own speakers at Brandon's place and they always sound "off" to me. I can't explain it better than to say that there is some sort of distortion that exists from room reflections (I'm guessing) and possibly the difference in front end electronics. I will be honest and say I do NOT think the SB Touch that Brandon uses is a good sounding source, especially using it's analog outs. Even through my DAC, I couldn't find any love for for the Touch when I had one. I also realize that this goes against popular opinion of the Touch.

From my visit to Brandon's place, I can easily state that the Towers are FAR better all around than the Sierra-1. Since the Sierra is a decent speaker, this should be taken as a compliment. I think the tweeter is a huge improvement by itself. If this is the new tweeter in the Sierra, than that too is a much better speaker from the ones I tried a couple of years ago.

Overall, I'm expecting the Towers to perform very well in room. I really hope they do!

I think Brandon would agree here, but my HT2-TL's crushed the Ascend Towers in the bass department. My only point for making this statement is that even though the HT2-TL's have such impressive bass down to 20Hz in Brandon's room as well as mine, I too prefer the sound of my EQ'd subs. There is more weight to the bass and overall tone of the speakers. I've tried at least 10 different times over the last couple of years to run my Salk's full range and I always go back to using subs for music. I now have the best bass I've ever heard anywhere with my dual 18" TC Sounds LMS Ultra's in DIY 24" cube, sealed boxes. They amaze me every time I listen now. I'll find out what the group thinks of them when they are here for the GTG.

The GTG next Saturday should be fun. We hope to have several speakers to listen to, so we'll be busy. I'm sure Brandon will keep you guys posted. :)

Geez! I just saw my old signature. The only things I still have are the Speaker Craft in-walls and the MX-500 remote.

No argument from me that the Salks are excellent speakers. I am certain they sound as good as you claim.

Now, based on your listening at Brandons' place, your Salks sounded different than in your own home, but they also had noticeable differences between the Ascend towers. So, if your room is optimized, even if unitentionally so, for your Salks, it is still optimized for them. You have put together a system that sounds its best with the Salks since those are the reference standard you based everything else on. Replace those with any other speaker and it will have a different sound. If you are accustomed to your reference sound than you will most likely be biased towards that. I do believe, based on everything that has been posted regarding this whole thing, that the Ascends will sound better in your room. But you must attempt to integrate/calibrate them into your system as best as possible since that has already happened with the Salks. This will give the speakers the most level playing field.

I look forward to everyones impressions of the next GTG!

[TJHUB]

No argument from me that the Salks are excellent speakers. I am certain they sound as good as you claim.

Now, based on your listening at Brandons' place, your Salks sounded different than in your own home, but they also had noticeable differences between the Ascend towers. So, if your room is optimized, even if unitentionally so, for your Salks, it is still optimized for them. You have put together a system that sounds its best with the Salks since those are the reference standard you based everything else on. Replace those with any other speaker and it will have a different sound. If you are accustomed to your reference sound than you will most likely be biased towards that. I do believe, based on everything that has been posted regarding this whole thing, that the Ascends will sound better in your room. But you must attempt to integrate/calibrate them into your system as best as possible since that has already happened with the Salks. This will give the speakers the most level playing field.

I look forward to everyones impressions of the next GTG!

I certainly can't argue with your points. I just wanted it known that I didn't really tweak my room to control the sound to fit my Salk's. What I found was that the right mix of electronics and cables can provide a clarity that is very distinct. Along with this clarity came fantastic definition in the sound stage imaging and great separation. In my opinion, ANY speaker should benefit from this, and I hope that's what I find out this coming weekend. I'm really wondering what will happen. This will be a great experiment for me and I hope the others as well.

I also think I can be a little more objective than preferring my Salk's over the others because I listen to them every day. I had speakers in a previous setup that I thought sounded great; heck the best I had heard at the time. I showed up with my B&W (800 series) to friend's house to show him what great speakers sound like. Well, as it turns out, the B&W lost by a HUGE margin to his speakers. Then I thought getting them back home to my room would make them sound good again. Nope. Having heard something better ruined my B&W's for me. That's when I ordered my Salk's. :D I will have to admit that I am partial to ribbon tweeters though. ;)

[Reflections1]

I certainly can't argue with your points. I just wanted it known that I didn't really tweak my room to control the sound to fit my Salk's. What I found was that the right mix of electronics and cables can provide a clarity that is very distinct. Along with this clarity came fantastic definition in the sound stage imaging and great separation. In my opinion, ANY speaker should benefit from this, and I hope that's what I find out this coming weekend. I'm really wondering what will happen. This will be a great experiment for me and I hope the others as well.

I also think I can be a little more objective than preferring my Salk's over the others because I listen to them every day. I had speakers in a previous setup that I thought sounded great; heck the best I had heard at the time. I showed up with my B&W (800 series) to friend's house to show him what great speakers sound like. Well, as it turns out, the B&W lost by a HUGE margin to his speakers. Then I thought getting them back home to my room would make them sound good again. Nope. Having heard something better ruined my B&W's for me. That's when I ordered my Salk's. :D I will have to admit that I am partial to ribbon tweeters though. ;)

I would love to have your Salk's but they are out of my price range,oh well!! I'm sure if i heard them i to would not be happy with anything else.
I am really looking forward to hear the difference in opinions with Nuance's songtowers with the ribbon tweeters as compared to the towers. Thanks again for doing this . Everyone's waiting with baited breath for the reviews !!!

[TJHUB]

I would love to have your Salk's but they are out of my price range,oh well!! I'm sure if i heard them i to would not be happy with anything else.
I am really looking forward to hear the difference in opinions with Nuance's songtowers with the ribbon tweeters as compared to the towers. Thanks again for doing this . Everyone's waiting with baited breath for the reviews !!!

I do love my Salk's, but no one speaker seems to do it all perfectly. It'll be interesting to see which speakers are better at what aspects of the audio spectrum.

These GTG's are a lot of fun. The group attending mine is the best. These guys are just great.

[Reflections1]

So did the gtg happen?? Does anyone care to post a review on their thoughts if it did? I'm sure everyone is excited about the comments that are hopefully on the way . Thanks Guys , Rich

[edmondwolfman]

So did the gtg happen?? Does anyone care to post a review on their thoughts if it did? I'm sure everyone is excited about the comments that are hopefully on the way . Thanks Guys , Rich

Lotta stuff over at AVS starting about page 6
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1324185&page=6

[merrymaid520]

Hey guys,
Sorry I didn't post anything in here, I figured most would see it over on AVS as well. As you can see we all had our preferences:) The salks and ascends do sound quite different. Not sure which is right/wrong but the good thing is, I'm keeping my Towers! If anyone has questions, I can try and answer them.

[hearing specialist]

Brandon, I'm glad to hear you guys had a great time and the source of a possible "variable" was discovered. I still think the Tower rules!!!:D