Surrounds to match Sierra-1

[avsnoob10]

I like diffused sound of dipole type speakers (have auditioned Paradigm ADP-590) and also like look of flush mounted speakers for surround duty, would like to know what are you guys using as surrounds with your Sierra-1s?

- Axiom QS8-Quadpolar, not a true dipole but may be better?

- Paradigm ADP-390 - Adaptive dipole, again not a true dipole as both speakers have same driver arrangement so again may be better than default/true dipole, I am not sure because I have never auditioned true dipole?

- Any other suggestions?

- Another question, are CBM-170SEs timbre matched with Sierra-1s?

[curtis]

Here's what I tell people....

In the mixing studio, direct radiating speakers are used. The sound engineer can create a diffused sound when needed with direct radiating speakers. When dipoles are used, the sound is always diffused...so it never produces a direct sound when called for.

All Ascend speakers are well timbre matched to each other.

[soundseeker]

I have upgraded my R/C/L speakers to Sierra-1s but my surrounds have remained from my previous, entry level, system. I'm still using Wharfedale WH-2 bi-polar speakers which sound fine to me. I just picked up the Apocalypse Now blu-ray and the surrond effects of the chopper fly bys are very enveloping. They are not very expensive and don't have a modern look to them but they work very well for me and, at this point, I don't feel the need to upgrade them. They still occasionally pop up on Amazon or on e-bay for less than $100/pr.

http://www.amazon.com/Wharfedale-Wide-Dispersion-Satellite-Speakers-White/dp/B00005UD2A

[avsnoob10]

Here's what I tell people....

In the mixing studio, direct radiating speakers are used. The sound engineer can create a diffused sound when needed by direct radiating speakers. When dipoles are used, the sound is always diffused...so it never produces a direct sound when called for.

All Ascend speakers are well timbre matched to each other.

Curtis: my main use would be HT and almost no multi-channel music... in the case for primary HT use I prefer diffused sound.

[curtis]

Curtis: my main use would be HT and almost no multi-channel music... in the case for primary HT use I prefer diffused sound.
Understood.

BTW...my comment about the use of direct radiating speakers as surrounds was for both HT and music mixing studios/engineers.

[DougMac]

I suggest looking at PSB surrounds. I think they would come close in timbre.

[avsnoob10]

I suggest looking at PSB surrounds. I think they would come close in timbre.

Doug: Thanks for the suggestion but unfortunately PSB S5 is a bipole surround, I prefer dipole over bipole for HT.

[Mag_Neato]

These can be configured as bipole or dipole. Should come close enough in timbre. http://emotiva.com/erd1.shtm

[avsnoob10]

These can be configured as bipole or dipole. Should come close enough in timbre. http://emotiva.com/erd1.shtm

Oh I like that, dipole for movies and bipole for music (if i ever play multi-channel music that is). For a close timbre match does the type/material of drivers have to match? For example should i be looking for a soft dome tweet on a surround/dipole speaker?

[avsnoob10]

Here's what I tell people....

In the mixing studio, direct radiating speakers are used. The sound engineer can create a diffused sound when needed with direct radiating speakers. When dipoles are used, the sound is always diffused...so it never produces a direct sound when called for.

All Ascend speakers are well timbre matched to each other.

Curtis:
So now that I have officially pre-ordered new towers and center (Thanks Dina), let's talk little bit more about this. I was doing light reading with your comments in my mind and came across this article...

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/speakers-and-pole-position-monopole-bipole-dipole-.html

As you can see in the bottom it says: Bipoles and dipoles (and omnipole speakers for that matter) all provide a more diffuse surround-sound experience. There’s nothing wrong with this, and in some cases it can enhance your experience, but today’s surround-sound soundtracks are recorded and mastered using direct radiating speakers and the discrete surround-sound channels with Dolby Digital or DTS (or their higher-resolution counterparts such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio).

Is this what you're referring to? Do you or can someone on this thread have any suggestions for me to read up on this either on the web or printed material, it would be really interesting to read on the current/latest technologies for sound production/reproduction using these new codecs/audio formats. To be honest I think when I told you about how I like diffused sound I did not realize what you meant but I read it again and "sound engineer CREATING a diffused sound" did the trick. So reading more on this for some time and AVS has tons of dipole vs monopole threads.

Edit: few more articles and conflicting opinions...

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/surround_sound_bipole_dipole_direct_speakers/

http://www.hometheater.com/bootcamp/25/index.html

[curtis]

Yes...it is what I was referring to.

The one article you referenced from hometheater.com is over 10 years old. Surround recording and processing has changed a fair amount since then.

I don't have any articles to reference. I have been in recording studios and soundstages, and know what they use. I understand what people are trying to get with a diffused soundfield, and have nothing against it...it is a preference.

My point is that if you start off with diffused speakers/soundfield, you will not ever get direct sound. The sound engineer/mixer can create a diffused sound by using multiple direct channels/monopoles if that is the intention.

[Ecks]

just adding my note:

I use two Orb Mod 2's as my surrounds with my L/C/R Sierra's.
My sub is a Cambridge Soundworks P300HD,

I love the Orbs!

L8er
Ecks

[avsnoob10]

I heard back from Dave last week about surrounds, he's obviously not a fan of dipole speakers, in his own words, "they destroy the directivity/localization and it is also not an actual reproduction of source material." Though his suggestion is to go with M&K Tripole design if you MUST user dipole. I need to figure out exactly which M&K would match Sierra-1s, actually match new towers since towers are going to use same neo ring tweeter and bass drivers. I need to find a best possible/closest match from M&K's current Tripole surround offerings to Sierra-1 Nrt.

Here is a M&K's current Tripole Surround offerings, just by looking at specification can someone suggest or have an idea which M&K Tripole surround would closely match Sierra-1 Nrt?

==================

SUR95T Specifications
Drivers . . . . . . . . 1” silk dome ferrofl uid double ferrite magnet tweeter
5.25” polypropylene bass/mid
2 x 3” coated paper (side-mounted)
Frequency Response . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .87 Hz - 20 kHz ±3 dB

Featuring two 3” pulp mid-tweeters on each side of the cabinet oriented in dipole fashion, the dipole configuration emits diffuse sound throughout the room. Combined with the front-mounted 1” silk dome tweeter and 5.25” polypropylene mid-woofer direct radiating configuration.


=================

M-4T Specifications
Drivers . . . . . . . . . . 1” soft-dome ferrofluid neodymium tweeter
4” coated pulp bass/mid
2 x 3” full-range side drivers
Frequency Response. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100 Hz - 20 kHz ±2dB
Crossover. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Phase Focused
Impedance. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Ohm


==================

SUR55T Specification (looks same as SUR95T)
Drivers:. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1” soft-dome tweeter
5.25” polypropylene bass/mid
2 x 3” coated paper (side-mounted)
Frequency Response:. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 87 Hz - 20 KHz ± 3 dB

===================

SS-150 THX Specifications
Drivers:. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1" soft-dome tweeter
5 1/4" woofer
2 x 3.25” polypropylene cone mid-tweeters
Impedance:. 4 Ohm
Frequency Response: . 80 Hz – 20 kHz ±3dB
Recommended Power: . 25 - 200 Watts

=======================

MKMOVIE K-4 Specifications
Recommended Power. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 – 150 Watts RMS
Frequency Response. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100 Hz - 20 kHz + 3 dB
Impedance. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Ohm
High Frequency Driver. . . . . . 1” dome with neodymium magnet
Bass/Midrange Driver. . . . 4” coated pulp cone with cast basket
Dipole Drivers. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 x 2.5”

========================

[scape]

just curious: what AVR are you using to drive this? a 7 channel system with dedicated surrounds would be sound far superior than a 5 channel with the rear's diffused, which is apples to oranges but hey if your spending money... how big is the room your placing this in, is this the reason (to cover more seating with fewer speakers)? I think better imaging speakers, and enough of them to fill the room's seating and channels desired is the best route to take.

on a side note: i'd love to see a refresh to the htm's or another sealed speaker put into the mix

[avsnoob10]

As far as AVR, I have Pioneer VSX-1120K at the moment and will be adding Emotiva XPA-3 amp at some point. I am seriously considering getting rid of Pioneer and getting Denon AVR-4311 since I can get pretty good deal from an out of state authorized dealer. For surrounds my couch is about 4.5 ft from either side walls and its against back wall. I am only looking for 5.1 setup at this point.

V V V
| |
| |
| | 24'
| |
> HHHH <
--------------
16'


V = front LCR speakers
> < = surrounds
H = couch

Actually my couch is right against the back wall, no gap/space between wall and couch but obviously can't draw that here. And actually the left side of entire wall is open to kitchen and dining.

To be honest since we are making a wish list ;), I would love to see Sierra-1s in front ported or sealed cabinet with little less depth to mount it flush against the wall or same drivers/crossovers as Sierra-1 in HTM-200 cabinet. But ideally flush moutable Sierra-0.5 in same piano black finish as Sierra-1 and new towers.

[scape]

your fronts are 24' from the couch? how far apart are they set?
i would love to see a sierra .5, just enough to cross them over at 80hz and have great imaging

[avsnoob10]

My bad... actually couch is at around 21' not 24' from the fronts and L and R are about 8' apart from each other. I know this is not ideal, ideally I need very high sensitivity speakers for that space. Though I do have one sub and will be getting 2nd very shortly or at least before I get new towers.

[Gov]

Why add the Emotiva?

[avsnoob10]

Based on specs on new towers, they are rated at 6ohms and can go down to 4ohms, I don't want to skimp on power. I am pretty sure 4311 can drive them easily so will first try with just 4311 and if need be will add Emo later on.