Sierra-1 Nrt + sub vs Sierra-1 tower

[ripcordaff]

The title pretty much explains it. I am revamping my two-channel system and I believe that I will likely go with Ascend Sierras for the replacement speakers. However, I still cant decide whether I should go with the planned towers or the standard sierras nrts + a capable sealed sub, such as a Rythmik. Does anyone have any thoughts on these two potential systems?

Thanks in advance!

[Sam1000]

The title pretty much explains it. I am revamping my two-channel system and I believe that I will likely go with Ascend Sierras for the replacement speakers. However, I still cant decide whether I should go with the planned towers or the standard sierras nrts + a capable sealed sub, such as a Rythmik. Does anyone have any thoughts on these two potential systems?

Thanks in advance!

The midrange driver supposedly takes the tower to the next level.(I have not heard either, but waiting for Tower). I do have 15" Rythmic with Sierra classic and will use that for movies in future. So if you are a 2 ch. enthusiast, then tower gives you that option as well.

[cynan]

I concur. For a two channel system - as in one that will be used mostly for music - the towers should be the clear choice for most music (ie, rock, classical, vocal, most pop, etc). (Though perhaps if you listen exclusively to bass heavy electronica or organ music and argument for the bookshelves + sub could be made). Of course, we will all have to wait for the finished towers to be absolutely sure.

[curtis]

You can always use a subwoofer with the towers too! :)

[merrymaid520]

You can always use a subwoofer with the towers too! :)

Towers + 15" Rythmik = audio bliss
(hopefully, have not heard the towers yet, but love the sub)
:D

[Tallen234]

I have a similar question. I have a fairly large "man room" probably 15 x 40 with a pitched roof probably up to 20'. Right now I have 170's across the front with 200's in the back (standard 5.1). My sub (VTF1) recently kicked the bucket. I have permission from the wife to conduct a major HT overhaul. I have to replace the sub (thinking about the new HSU vtf-15h). My usage for this system is about 40% TV, 40% Movies and 10% gaming and 10% music. From what I have determined my options are:

LCR - Sierra 1's with NrT
Rears - either the 170's or 200's

OR

LCR - New Towers (L&R) - Sierra 1 center
Rears- same as above


Now considering that I don't listen to that much music, would getting the towers be overkill (or a mis-allocation of resources)?


Also, on a side note, I will need to baby proof the towers, can you add sand and/or lead bars to the base?

Thanks!

[RicardoJoa]

I believe in a sierra nrt and sub is going to give an enphasis and ability on bass while the tower will enphasis on the mid and imaging. Tower and sub is probably going to be best as i think u already know. But u asked is probably due to budget allocation.

[curtis]

Now considering that I don't listen to that much music, would getting the towers be overkill (or a mis-allocation of resources)?


Also, on a side note, I will need to baby proof the towers, can you add sand and/or lead bars to the base?

If you don't listen to much music, then I would consider CMT-340SE's.

That said, almost everyone that I know that gets a good set of speakers and has a multipurpose room (ie. not a dedicated HT) almost always ends up listening to more music than they first thought they would. Even then, the 340SE's would make a great choice.

Regrading addling sand/lead bars to the base of the towers... You wouldn't be able to add anything to the inside of the cabinets, as the internal volume is specific to the speaker.

[Tallen234]

Hmmm...didn't even think about going "down" the food chain. ;)

I probably will listen to more music if I get nicer speakers. I've been one of those stuck in iTunes listening to music on my iphone with earbuds, etc.

I guess the germ of my question is whether or not it would be "waste" to get the new towers as opposed to Sierra's (or even the 340se's) if my primary focus is home theater (using a Subwoofer).

I don't have a budget per se, but will need to pass the costs by the wife before pulling the trigger (don't think I can get away with Wilson Audio).





If you don't listen to much music, then I would consider CMT-340SE's.

That said, almost everyone that I know that gets a good set of speakers and has a multipurpose room (ie. not a dedicated HT) almost always ends up listening to more music than they first thought they would. Even then, the 340SE's would make a great choice.

Regrading addling sand/lead bars to the base of the towers... You wouldn't be able to add anything to the inside of the cabinets, as the internal volume is specific to the speaker.

[Kpt_Krunch]

You can always use a subwoofer with the towers too! :)


Towers + 15" Rythmik = audio bliss
(hopefully, have not heard the towers yet, but love the sub)
:D

hmmmmm, this goes against all audiophile wisdom. Seriously, if you're into pure music, a set of good bookshelf monitors plus a sub would/should destroy any comparably priced towers. Less drivers to 'muddy' the sound, and as we all know bass is so much more sensitive to room placement. With a subwoofer you can place it in the best spot in the room which (in all likelyhood) is NOT the best place for your speakers.

Advantage to a tower is that they can play louder and handle more amplification (usually) then a bookshelf speaker can. If you do have a large room certainly a tower with sub would be fine, but in a smaller room where bass is more difficult to manage, a set of bookshelves with a sub would be the way I'd go (and have done already).

Plus, this is a purely speculative thread, as the final version of the Ascend Towers have yet to hit the market. Though I am excited for this - I just hope our Canadian $ stays strong for it's general release, I just might buy a pair.

[GirgleMirt]

hmmmmm, this goes against all audiophile wisdom. Seriously, if you're into pure music, a set of good bookshelf monitors plus a sub would/should destroy any comparably priced towers. Less drivers to 'muddy' the sound, and as we all know bass is so much more sensitive to room placement. With a subwoofer you can place it in the best spot in the room which (in all likelyhood) is NOT the best place for your speakers.

You could also say, more drivers help to clean up the sound! ;)

With a 2 way speaker, tweeter handles the treble & the mid handles the mids and the bass. With a 3 way speaker, a tweet handles the top end, mid the mids, and woofer(s) the bass. So, the mid doesn't have to produce bass, and the bass doesn't have to produce mids, which means that you can use dedicated drivers which can be designed with a more specific function in mind: A driver that has to do both bass & mid might have to do some compromise in either to accomplish the other... While 2 separate drivers can each focus on just one thing...

So 3 way can lead to both a bass/mid improvement, and in the case of Ascend I don't doubt it does, but it does increase the cost as well as make the design more complex... (more stuff to possibly mess up)

So it's not really black and white, "more drivers muddies sound", really has to do with the design, quality of components, cost, etc etc...


Seriously, if you're into pure music, a set of good bookshelf monitors plus a sub would/should destroy any comparably priced towers.
Well normally I'd agree with you, but in this case I'm not so sure... I believe the Sierra's bass is amazing. Maybe not amazing in the sense that it'll destroy everything else like humongous 100000$ Wilsons or whatever, but for its size, the bass extension and quality is extremely good. Easily bests many towers... Now the Sierras towers will have two Sierra woofers... :cool: I think Dave mentioned mid 30s response! That's pretty damn good... I use my Sierras without sub btw.

So Sierras NrTs + sub vs Sierra Towers, ok, the sub should have the edge in extension and room placement option, and probably also quality... BUT, the as mentioned the dedicated mid from the towers might give them the edge vs the Sierra NrTs, and by all accounts it seems they do... If the NrTs also had the dedicated mid or if the towers used the same mid as the NrTs you'd have a point, but since the towers use different drivers, (and costs significantly more than NrTs too), that might not hold true in this case... Bass would probably go with NrT+sub for <80hz bass, but above 80hz, the towers would probably take the cake... :)

And actually, four sierra 5.5 inch drivers have area of 4x23.7 = 94.8 square inch, vs one 12 inch woofer area of 113, so not that big of a difference for woofer surface area... It would be like roughly the equivalent of a 11 inch woofer. (not taking into account excursion) So from 40hz to 80hz, they're not at a big disadvantage vs a sub... Of course below port tuning is another matter, but imho, <40hz is not critical for music reproduction as not so many instruments reach that low...

[Kpt_Krunch]

You could also say, more drivers help to clean up the sound! ;)

With a 2 way speaker, tweeter handles the treble & the mid handles the mids and the bass. With a 3 way speaker, a tweet handles the top end, mid the mids, and woofer(s) the bass. So, the mid doesn't have to produce bass, and the bass doesn't have to produce mids, which means that you can use dedicated drivers which can be designed with a more specific function in mind: A driver that has to do both bass & mid might have to do some compromise in either to accomplish the other... While 2 separate drivers can each focus on just one thing...

So 3 way can lead to both a bass/mid improvement, and in the case of Ascend I don't doubt it does, but it does increase the cost as well as make the design more complex... (more stuff to possibly mess up)

So it's not really black and white, "more drivers muddies sound", really has to do with the design, quality of components, cost, etc etc...


Well normally I'd agree with you, but in this case I'm not so sure... I believe the Sierra's bass is amazing. Maybe not amazing in the sense that it'll destroy everything else like humongous 100000$ Wilsons or whatever, but for its size, the bass extension and quality is extremely good. Easily bests many towers... Now the Sierras towers will have two Sierra woofers... :cool: I think Dave mentioned mid 30s response! That's pretty damn good... I use my Sierras without sub btw.

So Sierras NrTs + sub vs Sierra Towers, ok, the sub should have the edge in extension and room placement option, and probably also quality... BUT, the as mentioned the dedicated mid from the towers might give them the edge vs the Sierra NrTs, and by all accounts it seems they do... If the NrTs also had the dedicated mid or if the towers used the same mid as the NrTs you'd have a point, but since the towers use different drivers, (and costs significantly more than NrTs too), that might not hold true in this case... Bass would probably go with NrT+sub for <80hz bass, but above 80hz, the towers would probably take the cake... :)

And actually, four sierra 5.5 inch drivers have area of 4x23.7 = 94.8 square inch, vs one 12 inch woofer area of 113, so not that big of a difference for woofer surface area... It would be like roughly the equivalent of a 11 inch woofer. (not taking into account excursion) So from 40hz to 80hz, they're not at a big disadvantage vs a sub... Of course below port tuning is another matter, but imho, <40hz is not critical for music reproduction as not so many instruments reach that low...

Yes, I have speakers (I call them 'mini' towers) that reach down to 32 hz with only a 5.5" Revelator mid range driver (that's with a rooms assistance, I think it measures in the 38 to 40 hz range in an anechoic chamber) but when I add my sub to it I get that extra kick (especially from drums) and air movement that no 5.5" driver can deliver, so I know what you mean. All I'm saying is there's always options - and should be weighed out. I personally like a good subwoofer in the proper position, it adds that extra thump to tunes that need it, but is barely audible for songs that don't need it. Even then, you sure notice the change when it's turned off.

Either way, the OP will have two great speakers to choose from. I'm really excited for Davids new offering and can hardly wait to see them in production and start reading reviews of them. He is including his NrT upgrade in them, right? I know that was the one disappointment of the original Sierra.

[merrymaid520]

He is including his NrT upgrade in them, right? I know that was the one disappointment of the original Sierra.

Yes, the same Nrt tweeter will be used in the tower along with a new mid bass driver and 2 modified(for bass duty) sierra-1 drivers.

[curtis]

I wouldn't call the standard tweeter a "disappointment".

[davef]

I wouldn't call the standard tweeter a "disappointment".

... Neither would I -- and considering the sales volume of the standard Sierra-1, I would consider it an astounding success. Hard to imagine, but we actually sold more Sierra-1 in 2010 than any of our other models, and it is our most expensive speaker -- that never happens in this industry.

The tweeter that is in the standard Sierra-1 is fantastic, and measures superbly (every tweeter SEAS manfactures is exceptional compared to what most other loudspeaker manufacturers use these days.) I have yet to see this tweeter used in any sub $1000/pair of loudspeaker. Totem Tribe IIIs use it ($3000/pr) and our version of it is actually customized to reduce moving mass.

That said, from day one with the standard Sierra-1, it was designed as a loudspeaker that would be a bit more forgiving of poorly recorded material -- compared to say our CMT-340 SE. It is the combination of the tweeter AND matching crossover that were designed for this. In my experience, there are those who want even more detail / resolution and the NrT option becomes the ideal solution. Still, many others prefer a slighly more forgiving and relaxed sound.... And there are even those who consider the standard Sierra-1 as too extended and not forgiving enough. Our numbers indicate that the main reason a customer is not happy with the standard Sierra-1 is that they find it too detailed, perhaps a bit too "bright".

It really comes down to what the person's frame of reference is; soft domes, metal domes, or ribbons. For someone used to a soft dome, the standard Sierra-1 is typically found to be very detailed with a crisp high end. If someone is coming from metal domes or ribbons, the Sierra-1 will sound a bit relaxed with a softer high frequency response -- for which NrT's are then recommended...