Please help me choose the right Ascend speakers.

[Allen Zimmer]

Hello. Nice to meet you all. :)

The challenge -- Finding the right 5.1 speaker system for a small bedroom space (9 x 11) completely sealed off except for the entrance door. I also have a relatively small budget. I've decided on a sub, the HSU STFU-2, and I will be purchasing a new receiver soon, probably a Denon.

So I need advice on what combination of 5 Ascend speakers will be best for my space. My system will be used for everything, with time being split about evenly. 1/3 Movies and TV. 1/3 Gaming. 1/3 Music.

Here are my questions....

-- Would 5 HTM-200 SE be enough for a good overall experience in that small room? (Those would be perfect for wall mounting in this situation to save space)

-- How significant an upgrade would adding a pair of CBM-170 SE as front L/R be? (Maybe it's just male ego, but I feel the need to have something a little beefier up front that the HTM-200.)

-- Is there any reason NOT to upgrade the fronts to CBM-170 SE? I realize they are rear-ported, and my space is limited, but I could put them on stands about 6-8 inches from the wall behind them. Would that be enough room to not interfere with the port doing it's thing?

-- If I did upgrade my front L/R to CBM-170, would I need to also upgrade to the CMT-340 SE for center channel to have a good match? Would a HTM-200 center be overpowered by the CBM-170 L/R?

Obviously getting 5 HTM-200 SE would be the least expensive. But getting a pair of CBM-170 SE as my fronts would only be $70 more, and that seems like money well spent. Am I right about that? I'm just worried that I will then need to spend more money on the center channel too, for a proper match.

Any advice, suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. - I'm not cheap. I'm just poor. There's a difference. :o

[Mike^S]

Considering the small size of the room, I would say the 200s combined with the stf-2 would sound fantastic. That being said, if you went with the 170s for the left and right you could also do another 170 for the center. I had that setup with a HSU sub for a long time.

[P Seastrand]

In that small of a room the 200's would be great. I have a friend who has a larger room and went with 4 200's in the corners and a 340 for the center channel. He's mostly HT so having a strong center was important for him. If you really feel that you must go "bigger" then I would consider upgrading the center first and then maybe the fronts. Anything more than the 200's would be major overkill for the surrounds.

[DougMac]

Welcome to the forum Allen!

I own all three speakers you are considering, the 200's, the 170's and the 340's. I consider the HTM-200's amazing speakers and I think they'll do just fine in your situation.

While I was building my home theater, I used the HTM-200's to listen to music while I worked. They filled up an area much larger than you have and sounded great even without a sub. I also used them in my great room, comparing them to my Boston Acoustics CR9's (2 way with 8" woofers). When used with a sub, I thought the 200's blended better with the sub and actually sounded better, even when turned up loud.

My 200's now serve as back surround in my 7.1 setup, with 340's L/C/R, and170's as surround. When used with your sub, I don't think the 170's would bring much more to the table. The sealed design of the 200's may give you a little more flexibility in your situation. My recommendation: 200's all around.

In addition to the Denon, you might want to check the new Onkyo TX-SR608. It's getting a lot of good reviews.

[Allen Zimmer]

Guys, thank you very much for taking the time to post. It really does help me.

So you all seem to think the 200's would be fine. That's great news for my budget.

I think subconsciously I was hoping you would say that I needed the bigger speakers. It's weird, thinking about stuff on a 'smaller' and 'less' powerful scale. So often it seems to be the opposite.

But with a room so small, it could easily get crowded with bigger speakers, plus they wouldn't have the space needed to perform at their best. I know I should keep myself from getting carried away here, and buying more than I need. And I know you guys are probably right. I should stick with the smaller 200's.

Still.. it feels unnatural to be thinking this way. Damn it. lol :p

[curtis]

Get a pair of each and see if the difference is significant enough for you in your space.

Also keep in mind that the 170's will need at least a little space behind them due to the rear port.

[stevensctt]

Guys, thank you very much for taking the time to post. It really does help me.

So you all seem to think the 200's would be fine. That's great news for my budget.

I think subconsciously I was hoping you would say that I needed the bigger speakers. It's weird, thinking about stuff on a 'smaller' and 'less' powerful scale. So often it seems to be the opposite.

But with a room so small, it could easily get crowded with bigger speakers, plus they wouldn't have the space needed to perform at their best. I know I should keep myself from getting carried away here, and buying more than I need. And I know you guys are probably right. I should stick with the smaller 200's.

Still.. it feels unnatural to be thinking this way. Damn it. lol :p

I think you would be better off with your own inclination to use CBM170 as main L/R and use HTM200s for center and surrounds. If you get five 200s, the thought of upgrading the fronts will always be on your mind. You've already convinced yourself that the upgrade of $70 ($35 per speaker) is well spent and you're right.

[DougMac]

-- Is there any reason NOT to upgrade the fronts to CBM-170 SE? I realize they are rear-ported, and my space is limited, but I could put them on stands about 6-8 inches from the wall behind them. Would that be enough room to not interfere with the port doing it's thing?


I'll answer this. From what Dave as said in the past, 6-8 inches will be enough room behind the rear port.

Steven has encouraged you to go with the 170's. Steven, have you compared the two? Allen remember my recommendation comes from owning and comparing both speakers.

If the $70 more is insignificant and you think that you'll be happier with the 170's, go for it. Both are fine speakers and I think you'll be happy either way.

[stevensctt]

I'll answer this. From what Dave as said in the past, 6-8 inches will be enough room behind the rear port.

Steven has encouraged you to go with the 170's. Steven, have you compared the two? Allen remember my recommendation comes from owning and comparing both speakers.

If the $70 more is insignificant and you think that you'll be happier with the 170's, go for it. Both are fine speakers and I think you'll be happy either way.

I own the 200s (used as surrounds) and have heard the 170s but not compared the 2 back-to-back. The 170s seemed to have a fuller sound and seemed more capable as main speakers - based on 2CH music.

My recommendation to Allen was emotionally based since he has already convinced himself. I think the $70 will prevent "buyers remorse"!

[DougMac]

I
My recommendation to Allen was emotionally based since he has already convinced himself. I think the $70 will prevent "buyers remorse"!
Agreed!

[Allen Zimmer]

Ok, now you guys are inside my head with those last couple posts... and it's kinda creepy.

Please stop it.

lol :D

[Allen Zimmer]

I might not have buyer's remorse.

On the contrary, I might say... "DAMN these 200's sound great. What a terrific bargain, and versatile placement options".

You need to have a little more faith in me. :)

[Allen Zimmer]

OK, never mind... I need the CBM-170 SE's. I cannot live without them.

And I blame stevensctt and DougMac for their open display of psychological analysis on me, which has resulted in me being totally psyched out.

Bastards!

[DougMac]

Go with either the 200's or 170's, but realize you won't be really satisfied unless you buy Sierras!

[stevensctt]

OK, never mind... I need the CBM-170 SE's. I cannot live without them.

And I blame stevensctt and DougMac for their open display of psychological analysis on me, which has resulted in me being totally psyched out.

Bastards!

You'll thank us later

[stevensctt]

Go with either the 200's or 170's, but realize you won't be really satisfied unless you buy Sierras!

Cruel!

[Jonnyozero3]

Go with either the 200's or 170's, but realize you won't be really satisfied unless you buy Sierras!

You mean the Sierra-3 NrT Tower, right? :)

[curtis]

You guys are mean....but funny. :)

[Allen Zimmer]

I hate all of you. :)

[Allen Zimmer]

Hey guys,

Would it be considered proper to ask how these speakers compare to a model from a competing brand?

In general I would not go into a forum for Brand-A asking about Brand-B, but in this case I'm down to making my final decision on my new system soon, and hoping somebody might have some experience with 'both' brands.

But I don't want to start any trouble. :eek:

[Jonnyozero3]

I'm fairly certain that's more than kosher. ;) Go ahead!

[DougMac]

Hey guys,

Would it be considered proper to ask how these speakers compare to a model from a competing brand?

I don't want to start any trouble. :eek:
I don't think Dave will mind. I've seen him discuss competing brands on other forums, extolling their virtues. He's (a) confident in his products and (b) mature enough he's not going to sell to every person who is intrerested.

If we've heard the contender, we'll try to be as objective in our response as possible.

I had narrowed down my choice to Ascends and another brand, also sold internet direct. Pricing, specs and reviews but them pretty much neck and neck. I had a chance to buy a used pair of "classic" HTM-200's at a good price. I felt that they would represent the audio philosophy of Ascend and if I liked the way they sounded, I'd probably like the sound of the other models. This proved to be true. I had planned to order and audition both manufacturers, but based on how much I liked the HTM-200's, I just ordered the Ascends. After just a few days of listening, there was no thought of using the 30 day return policy.

[Allen Zimmer]

Ok then...

Quick recap -- Small room. 9 X 11. Need smallish 5 speaker system to mate with SVU STF-2 subwoofer. Used for everything; movies, music and video games... and LOTS of each!

Since the surround speakers play a minor role overall, and since each company below has a nice, small, affordable pair of surround speakers that will fit my needs, let's focus our attention on the front three speakers.

Further, let's assume all three front speakers are the exact same model. 3x match.

How would a front trio of Ascend CBM-170 SE compare to a trio of these other models.

Axiom M3 >> http://axiomaudio.com/m3.html

Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 800 >> http://www.definitivetech.com/Products/products.aspx?path=Bookshelf%20Speakers&productid=ProMonitor%20800

Any feedback is welcome. Thanks guys. :)

[curtis]

The Axiom M3, while a good speaker, IMO is not in the same class as the CBM-170SE. The Ascend has a more balanced and cleaner sound. In the Axiom line-up, to get to a comparative level as the 170SE for sound quality, you have to step up to the M22. Over the years, there have been handful of comparisons between the two.

I have no first hand experience with the Def Techs.

[stevensctt]

Ok then...

Quick recap -- Small room. 9 X 11. Need smallish 5 speaker system to mate with SVU STF-2 subwoofer. Used for everything; movies, music and video games... and LOTS of each!

Since the surround speakers play a minor role overall, and since each company below has a nice, small, affordable pair of surround speakers that will fit my needs, let's focus our attention on the front three speakers.

Further, let's assume all three front speakers are the exact same model. 3x match.

How would a front trio of Ascend CBM-170 SE compare to a trio of these other models.

Axiom M3 >> http://axiomaudio.com/m3.html

Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 800 >> http://www.definitivetech.com/Products/products.aspx?path=Bookshelf%20Speakers&productid=ProMonitor%20800

Any feedback is welcome. Thanks guys. :)

The two listed above (Axiom M3 and DT 800) don't seem to be comparable speakers. The DT is listed as a satellite speaker made for wall hanging at only 4 lbs each. The M3 is probably a fair competitor to the 170 - although Curtis suggests otherwise and he is likely correct.

Since both Axiom and Ascend offer in home trials, the only way to answer this is to order both, listen, keep the winner and return the loser.

You'll drive yourself crazy comparing A to B, then considering C while maybe adding D,E,F,G......to the mix.

Here is an old school decision tool. When comparing similar products, most all else equal, choose the heavier of the two. In this case, the 170 = 14 lbs,. the M3 = 12.7 lbs.

[curtis]

One thing to note, the M3 has a rise in the FR in the bass region to give the impression of deeper bass response(even though the 170SE has deeper extension). While it changes the balance of the speaker, this is something consider if you do not plan on using a subwoofer.

[DougMac]

I have not heard Def Techs or Axioms.

Axioms were on my short list. I read tons of reviews, mostly good. I think if you read enough reviews, though, you'll notice some things written "between the lines". There was a common theme about Axioms being "bright", which translated into being harsh and fatiguing for me.

I notice that both the Def Tech and Axioms use metal tweeters. Metal tweeters have the reputation of being bright and aggressive, but I think it has more to do with execution than construction materials. PSB uses metal tweeters and they are regarded as being very smooth in the top end (I've heard PSB's and they are very nice speakers). I've read some comments from Def Tech owners describing them as bright.

I find the Ascends to have a very articulate top end without being overly bright. You can listen for hours without fatigue.

A lot has to do with your tastes. I prefer a neutral speaker and that's what Ascends are famous for. I listen to a fair amount of "classical" music and it sounds terrific on Ascends, very balanced. We watched "Immortal Beloved" the other night, which is a fantasy about Beethoven's life. It was heavy with his music Everything from "Moonlight Sonata" to the finale of the 9th symphony sounded gorgeous. I also use a blu ray of a Heart concert to demo my system to friends. I crank up their rendition of "Black Dog" and it never fails to impress. My friend who spent a wad on Klipsch speakers listened to the Ascends ane remarked: "Now I have a serious case of speaker envy!". I didn't have the heart to tell her she probably spent more than I did!

[Allen Zimmer]

Hey everyone,

Thank you very much for taking the time to share your feedback and advice. I really do appreciate it. I'm letting everything 'sink in' for a while before making a decision. I will update soon, hopefully with early impressions and photos etc.

You guys are OK. :)