Information about new Sierra-1 and Towers?

[Sam1000]

Hi Dave,
I visited AVS after a long time and it was worth it :-) SInce the cat is out of the bag about upcoming new sierra-1 and tower, I was wondering how can we get more information about this?

Can the existing Sierra-1 owners upgrade their speakers with new parts? (Just like a program that you had for 340-SE?)

Like many, my room/family might not be receptive to towers, but you never know :-) I know that there's a good market for towers out there and I'm glad that Ascend is entering this market.

[Mag_Neato]

I heard about this over the last few days and am excited! From my understanding, the original Sierra-1 will continue for sale in addition to the new Sierra-NRT and floorstander, with a NRT upgrade available for the Sierra-1. Since my original Sierra-1's are sitting in their shipping box right now, I hope these are announced soon so I can have the upgrade done before I move to our new house and set them up!

[eRob]

Dave, is a Sierra NRT Tower in the works?

[merrymaid520]

Both are nearing completion from my understanding. I believe Dave is waiting on the new tweeter which will be a few months yet. This new tweet is needed for both the Tower and NrT Sierra-1.

The current Sierra can be upgraded(new crossover and tweeter).

As mentioned over at AVS, this Tower is a 3-way, with a dedicated mid range driver.

I have been waiting for these for a very long time....just ask Dave!!!:D

Maybe Dave will chime in with more details, I don't want to ruin the surprise.

Brandon

[GirgleMirt]

What are the driver size for the towers? Bass extension? Sensitivity? Will they also use bamboo or will these use MDF? Inquiring minds want to know! :)

[merrymaid520]

What are the driver size for the towers? Bass extension? Sensitivity? Will they also use bamboo or will these use MDF? Inquiring minds want to know! :)

Based on Dave's comment over at AVS about starting a thread here answering any questions, I will respond hopefully without stepping on his toes: (Dave, if this is not acceptable, please let me know).

Drivers:
2 sierra-1 drivers
new mid range driver
new NrT from SEAS
I dont know specs, but there will be a bamboo version and maybe an mdf version to keep costs down.

[Mike^S]

I would LOVE to see pics of the prototype Sierra Tower.

[Jonnyozero3]

+1

Uh oh, I'm in the mood to spend some money on audio this year...

[davef]

Hi Guys!


Hi Dave,
I visited AVS after a long time and it was worth it :-) SInce the cat is out of the bag about upcoming new sierra-1 and tower, I was wondering how can we get more information about this?

I will be posting more detailed information sometime this evening. Still working on what to post and organizing my thoughts a bit.



Can the existing Sierra-1 owners upgrade their speakers with new parts? (Just like a program that you had for 340-SE?)
100% YES!!! :)


Like many, my room/family might not be receptive to towers, but you never know :-) I know that there's a good market for towers out there and I'm glad that Ascend is entering this market.

We are not there yet, but this has been a joint effort between myself and the engineers from our various vendors for a long time now. Nothing is finalized on this yet -- but soon.


I heard about this over the last few days and am excited! From my understanding, the original Sierra-1 will continue for sale in addition to the new Sierra-NRT and floorstander, with a NRT upgrade available for the Sierra-1. Since my original Sierra-1's are sitting in their shipping box right now, I hope these are announced soon so I can have the upgrade done before I move to our new house and set them up!

All parts for the Sierra-1 NrT, which happens to stand for Neo-Ring Tweeter, have been ordered. Just waiting for parts to be completed.


Dave, is a Sierra NRT Tower in the works?

Yes -- has been for a long time but I can not provide a time frame for this just yet.


Both are nearing completion from my understanding. I believe Dave is waiting on the new tweeter which will be a few months yet. This new tweet is needed for both the Tower and NrT Sierra-1.

Correct!


The current Sierra can be upgraded(new crossover and tweeter).

Correct!


As mentioned over at AVS, this Tower is a 3-way, with a dedicated mid range driver.

This was the configuration that some listeners auditioned at our facility. However, there are two other configurations that we have also been working on. I haven't made the critical decision as to which configuration just yet. The 3-way, as described here with 100% bamboo cabinet and the new tweeter is *VERY* expensive to manufacture and the retail price might price us out of the market with our competitors. Many decisions still need to be made.


I have been waiting for these for a very long time....just ask Dave!!!:D

Ahh, yes -- but if it wasn't for you being on top of me about this I am not so sure if the project would have come this far already.. :)


What are the driver size for the towers? Bass extension? Sensitivity? Will they also use bamboo or will these use MDF? Inquiring minds want to know! :)

Only thing that is assured at this point is that the cabinet will be bamboo and the tweeter will be the same size as current Sierra-1 tweeter.


I would LOVE to see pics of the prototype Sierra Tower.

Mike -- please come visit for a listen :)

Hope this is a good start... I will post more info later today.

[eRob]

Based on Dave's comment over at AVS about starting a thread here answering any questions, I will respond hopefully without stepping on his toes: (Dave, if this is not acceptable, please let me know).

Drivers:
2 sierra-1 drivers
new mid range driver
new NrT from SEAS
I dont know specs, but there will be a bamboo version and maybe an mdf version to keep costs down.

A MDF version would be perfect if priced good.

[cacophony777]

A couple questions about the new tower model:

What speakers do you see as the core competition?
How do you see your tower comparing to the competition? (differences, tradeoffs, etc)

Thanks!

[davef]

A couple questions about the new tower model:

What speakers do you see as the core competition?

Difficult to answer this while we still don't have a price point. I will say we are aiming very high with this speaker and it is our intention to be able to favorably compete with any tower speaker in the less than $5K range.


How do you see your tower comparing to the competition? (differences, tradeoffs, etc)

Our products have always been about sound quality and neutrality. I will say this, I have listened to a huge number of loudspeakers out there and only a few have ever really impressed me all that much. These new products have thus far fully exceeded my expectations and have thoroughly impressed me. In fact, I would say that the upgraded Sierra-1 will lay waste to many "high-end" towers out there.

At this point, I invite anyone to come to our facility, bring your speakers and do the A/B comparson yourself. I would prefer if others posted their thoughts rather than I as I might sound too enthusiastic and I prefer to remain low key about these things.

[cacophony777]

Our products have always been about sound quality and neutrality. I will say this, I have listened to a huge number of loudspeakers out there and only a few have ever really impressed me all that much. These new products have thus far fully exceeded my expectations and have thoroughly impressed me. In fact, I would say that the upgraded Sierra-1 will lay waste to many "high-end" towers out there.


Thanks for the reply. I'm looking forward to hearing the new models.

If you don't mind me asking, what are the few speakers that have impressed you?

[Mag_Neato]

Dave, does the new NRT tweeter for the Sierra look different than the standard one? Does it still use the "Eyeball" insert around the dome? Just trying to envision it as I am visualizing something like the Vifa ring tweeter from the Rocket speakers.

Any guestimates on a release date?:)

[GirgleMirt]

It is interesting to read the older threads about it... http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=4247&page=4 and
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=4290


Thanks for the reply. I'm looking forward to hearing the new models.

If you don't mind me asking, what are the few speakers that have impressed you?
Good question! ++!


I will say this, I have listened to a huge number of loudspeakers out there and only a few have ever really impressed me all that much. These new products have thus far fully exceeded my expectations and have thoroughly impressed me. In fact, I would say that the upgraded Sierra-1 will lay waste to many "high-end" towers out there.
I must say I'm somewhat intrigued... I'm in the same boat with being unimpressed with most speakers, many sound really good, but when they cost something like >5000$, they definitely should... And even then, when you take the price into consideration, it's hard to be impressed when the price is prohibitive. In my case, not particularly because I don't have the funds, more that I don't think it's worth it to spend that much to get that level of performance...

But if we're talking competition, I'm guessing which aspect impresses is quite important. Some speakers will impress you for sheer brute strength and ease of playing loudly and cleanly (Wilsons, JMLabs Utopias, Verity Audio, etc.), then you have some which have very good detail/imaging, like the Martin Logan CLX (actually heard them but wasn't very impressed... :confused: but its just the type of speakers many praise for such attributes), Quads/Magnepans or MBL speakers (these were impressive imho! http://www.mbl-usa.com/View.aspx/2104/mbl-121-Compact). Then you have other speakers able to do have a big soundstage, like .. gah.. name escapes me... From the company of the guy who did hte B&W Nautilus Sig (shell), oh yeah, Vivid B1 (http://blog.stereophile.com/ssi2010//index2.html), other speakers will impress with other stuff...

I guess I'm a bit more impressionnable than Dave, I've heard a lot of speakers which sounded really good, just extremely rarely something which made me go: "Wow!! This sounds absolutely fantastic for what it costs!!!". A ton of "This sounds good/very good, but look at the price, LOL"

Do we have a ballpark for the price? I think this is usually the exclamation point by Ascend... I'm pretty sure this'll be kept for release :p

[Sam1000]

Thanks for the reply. I'm looking forward to hearing the new models.

If you don't mind me asking, what are the few speakers that have impressed you?

I'll let him answer the question, but he's hard guy to please in terms of audio. In one of the interview prior to the release of Sierra-1, he had mentioned that he had liked TAD speakers. (If I remember correctly, those were in the range of 10's of thousands..)

[merrymaid520]

I'll let him answer the question, but he's hard guy to please in terms of audio. In one of the interview prior to the release of Sierra-1, he had mentioned that he had liked TAD speakers. (If I remember correctly, those were in the range of 10's of thousands..)

You are mostly likely correct. Dave has told me some of his favorites are the pioneer EX line and also the TAD speakers(very similar). Mega bucks for any of those lines though, hopefully the new ascend towers hold there own against even speakers half their price(TAD's & etc).

[davef]

Dave, does the new NRT tweeter for the Sierra look different than the standard one? Does it still use the "Eyeball" insert around the dome? Just trying to envision it as I am visualizing something like the Vifa ring tweeter from the Rocket speakers.

Any guestimates on a release date?:)

From the front, the new NrT looks exactly the same with the only difference being that the waveguide insert will be black as opposed to the current grayish color. The motor assembly of the tweeter is completely different -- the NrT looks completely different from the sides and back. I will post a picture or two in the next few days.


Just trying to envision it as I am visualizing something like the Vifa ring tweeter from the Rocket speakers.

The Vifa XT is a ring radiator tweeter. The NrT is entirely different, it uses an axially magnetized neodymium ring magnet (donut shaped) as opposed to a neo "slug". This is technology only seen in some of the highest regarded (and most expensive) tweeters out there -- such as the higher end ScanSpeak and SEAS Excel models. This type of motor structure provides a more powerful and focused magnetic field, far superior ventilation, less magnetic flux leakage and better damping. In addition, the voice coil of this tweeter is now fully "underhung" -- meaning that the voice coil itself remains within the magnetic gap at all times, which dramatically reduces distortion and compression at higher volume levels, increases efficiency and power handling.

Guys -- this new tweeter is expensive, our cost is 3x more than what we pay for our current tweeter and I would estimate that if it were to be sold retail, it would have a price tag around $180 each. The tweeter is a joint venture between us and SEAS and we are the only company that will will ever have it. As far as soft domes go, this is among the very best out there with performance designed specifically for our goals, which is based on our customer feedback. This tweeter also allows us to use a different crossover topology with different slopes and not only is the difference in the highs dramatic -- the midrange is remarkable and the Sierra-1 NrT will be about 1/2dB more efficient with a frequency response that is now more linear than our CBM-170 (which is a remarkable accomplishment).

This Sierra-1 NrT should provide class-leading performance regardless of the price point. A bold statement indeed, but I welcome anyone to come have a listen for yourself. I hate discussing products that are still a few months away, this is new to us but at least with our demo room now open and the products ready to be heard, people can come and listen for themselves.

No vaporware here ;)

[Jonnyozero3]

This Sierra-1 NrT should provide class-leading performance regardless of the price point. A bold statement indeed, but I welcome anyone to come have a listen for yourself. I hate discussing products that are still a few months away, this is new to us but at least with our demo room now open and the products ready to be heard, people can come and listen for themselves.

No vaporware here ;)

Dave, this is great news. I'm excited to see more details as they come about - I'd sure drop in for a listen if I was in a state anywhere nearby.

One question that's been on my mind - has there been any thought of a dedicated Sierra model (NrT) Center channel? Or will the -1 continue to fill that role?

...just diagram-ing out my upgrade path ;)

[pj-]

The sooner you announce the price of the sierra upgrade the sooner I can plan how much beefaroni I'm gonna have to eat in the next 6 months..

[GirgleMirt]

Guys -- this new tweeter is expensive, our cost is 3x more than what we pay for our current tweeter and I would estimate that if it were to be sold retail, it would have a price tag around $180 each. The tweeter is a joint venture between us and SEAS and we are the only company that will will ever have it. As far as soft domes go, this is among the very best out there with performance designed specifically for our goals, which is based on our customer feedback. This tweeter also allows us to use a different crossover topology with different slopes and not only is the difference in the highs dramatic -- the midrange is remarkable and the Sierra-1 NrT will be about 1/2dB more efficient with a frequency response that is now more linear than our CBM-170 (which is a remarkable accomplishment).

This Sierra-1 NrT should provide class-leading performance regardless of the price point. A bold statement indeed, but I welcome anyone to come have a listen for yourself. I hate discussing products that are still a few months away, this is new to us but at least with our demo room now open and the products ready to be heard, people can come and listen for themselves.

No vaporware here ;)

Sigh, I was thinking of skipping this upgrade because I have absolutely no complaints with the current Sierra SEAS tweeter, but I don't think that will be an option :( So will the upgrade be a crossover and tweeter swap or will we have to send in the speaker to Ascend? For us poor canucks living in igloos its far more trouble to deice the ski-doo or dogsled and ride with the Sierras halfway through our ice desert wasteland to reach the helipad where we can airlift the Sierras to send them in for the upgrade... And I just happen to know a baby seal who's pretty handy with a soldering gun and screwdriver!

[davef]

The sooner you announce the price of the sierra upgrade the sooner I can plan how much beefaroni I'm gonna have to eat in the next 6 months..

Working on it today... I want to get this upgrade out there and into Sierra-1 owner's homes but our first supply of parts is limited. My plan is to offer special pricing for the first 50 or so customers who order the NrT upgrade for their existing Sierra-1 and special pricing for the first 50 customers who order the Sierra-1 NrT complete.

Estimated special intro pricing for the NrT upgrade (DIY) is $200 per speaker, whch includes the new tweeter AND the entirely new crossover. Looking at the numbers, this is about as low as we can possibly go for this.

[edmondwolfman]

The sooner you announce the price of the sierra upgrade the sooner I can plan how much beefaroni I'm gonna have to eat in the next 6 months..

ME TOO! Except I'm not looking for upgrade but price of new Sierras and Towers:D

[GirgleMirt]

Working on it today... I want to get this upgrade out there and into Sierra-1 owner's homes but our first supply of parts is limited. My plan is to offer special pricing for the first 50 or so customers who order the NrT upgrade for their existing Sierra-1 and special pricing for the first 50 customers who order the Sierra-1 NrT complete.

Estimated special intro pricing for the NrT upgrade (DIY) is $200 per speaker, whch includes the new tweeter AND the entirely new crossover. Looking at the numbers, this is about as low as we can possibly go for this.
Woa! That seems very reasonable! Where do we sign up? :D

[Sam1000]

Woa! That seems very reasonable! Where do we sign up? :D

+1 ;)

[Mag_Neato]

$200 per speaker.......DIY?

A little more than I had anticipated, but considering the performance of the upgrade it seems reasonable.

DIY means the parts are shipped to the customer and they do the component swap? Will this be doable for the less than experienced out there?

(Where do we sign up to be on the list?);)

[GirgleMirt]

$200 per speaker.......DIY?

A little more than I had anticipated, but considering the performance of the upgrade it seems reasonable.

DIY means the parts are shipped to the customer and they do the component swap? Will this be doable for the less than experienced out there?

(Where do we sign up to be on the list?);)

Well, if it's a high end tweeter, Dave mentioned 180$ per tweeter was it to sell retail... And there's also an assembled crossover... It's well within reasonable pricing imho. Compare to the skiing ninja price for crossover upgrades, (new crossovers basically), and 200$ for one and a high end tweeter isn't bad. But to be honest, when I first read it, I thought it was 200$ per pair and was like, woa! This is peanuts! But hey, you want quality parts, it'll definitely cost you...

Sierra's crossover:http://www.ascendacoustics.com/images/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1xover1.jpg

The DIY will pretty much come down to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jr9QH0t3h4

But like I said, personally, I'm quite happy with the current Sierra performance so it's definitely an optional upgrade, it's not like one of those crossovers you have to buy to fix a speaker because it has a bad crossover... Plus, you get the upgrade option, other companies would have no upgrade, you'd have to buy a whole set of speakers, so again, quite attractive options for those who could use a performance upgrade!

[Mag_Neato]

Agreed......no need to upgrade as the Sierra-1 is already an excellent speaker. I want the best possible performance available for it, however.

I want to go into the local hi-fi shop here, where they have the Sonus Fabers that are Sterophile Class A rated at something like $4-$5K a pair and feel that my little old "budget" Sierra-1's can go one on one with them!:D

[ediblestarfish]

I had a feeling the current tweeter exterior design and assembly make a lot of sense to carry over--I'm actually surprised more designs don't do something similar.

I'm very interested in this upgrade to increase upper clarity. Something I can definitely notice between the Sierra-1s and the Thiel CS 1.6's I have in the other room.

But now what do I do with the old tweeter and crossover? Feels like a waste of good, barely used parts. :confused:

... and a good three way tower, exactly as I'd hoped. Going to have to figure out how to budget for this.

[jvillas]

This is quite exciting. I am not sure at this time what stage of development a Tower may at. I am just wondering what the basic design( cabinet,crossover(s), and footprint) might be.

[edmondwolfman]

So, if an existing Sierra-1 is upgraded with the new tweeter and crossover would it then be exactly the same as a Sierra Nrt or are there other changes such as cabinet, etc?

[Mag_Neato]

So, if an existing Sierra-1 is upgraded with the new tweeter and crossover would it then be exactly the same as a Sierra Nrt or are there other changes such as cabinet, etc?

My understanding is......yes. The upgrade involves a new tweeter and crossover, with the woofer carried over. The improved tweeter allows a different crossover frequency which allows more of the mid frequencies to play through the tweeter. The mids and highs are thus improved as the woofer is freed up to handle the lower stuff and not induce as much, though minute, amounts of distortion into the midrange.

If I am totally off base, please step in Dave!

[davef]

$200 per speaker.......DIY?

A little more than I had anticipated, but considering the performance of the upgrade it seems reasonable.

DIY means the parts are shipped to the customer and they do the component swap? Will this be doable for the less than experienced out there?

(Where do we sign up to be on the list?);)

Upgrades will be very easy for 90% of the Sierra-1's out there. Only potential issue will be with first generation Sierra-1 cabinets that came from our first cabinet vendor. The internal binding posts on these speakers might have had some glue drip on them which makes removing the nut that secures the crossover input wires to the binding post difficult. There would be (2) ways around this, the simplest way is to just cut the wires directly and then solder the connections to the new crossover. Or, we have found that if you drip something like "Goof Off" on to the nut and wait 5 minutes or so, the adhesive bond will deteriorate and the nut then comes off easily.

The only other potential issue is screwing the new crossover down into the bottom of the cabinet. For thus of you with big hands, it can be a bit challenging. We use right angle screwdrivers here in the shop and that makes it very simple. I would estimate that the majority of our customers will be able to perform the complete upgrade in 10-15 minutes per speaker.


$200 per speaker.......DIY?
A little more than I had anticipated, but considering the performance of the upgrade it seems reasonable.

It is more than I anticipated as well, the crossovers came in at about $10 higher (each). I am working with (2) vendors on this and one option to bring the cost down a bit is to use thinner gauge wire on (2) of the inductors and then compensate for the 1/4 ohm increase in impedance by decreasing a series resistor. This will have no affect on performance and if I can make this change, I should be able to reach my original target price for the upgrade of $180 per speaker. Not a huge difference but it helps...

In addition, we will also do upgrades here at the office for the same price + return shipping. We will keep the old parts, which then covers our labor costs, with the advantage being that we will include the new response curves for you and your warranty will reset for an additional 7 years from the date we do the upgrade... This might be the best option for some of you, but it will cost you an estimate $50-$80 more for the shipping.

[davef]

Agreed......no need to upgrade as the Sierra-1 is already an excellent speaker. I want the best possible performance available for it, however.

I want to go into the local hi-fi shop here, where they have the Sonus Fabers that are Sterophile Class A rated at something like $4-$5K a pair and feel that my little old "budget" Sierra-1's can go one on one with them!:D

Agreed, this upgrade is not for everyone. The Sierra-1 NrT is EXTREMELY detailed -- capable of revealing all of the nuances in your source material. Depending on your source material and quality, the Sierra-1 NrT is going to make poor quality sources sound even worse while the Sierra-1 is more foregiving. This new tweeter is fast, delicate and with loads of top-end air. It is the perfect solution for those that like the advantages of a soft dome but yet miss some of the positive aspects of a metal dome.

Sal had a listen 2 days ago, he had his very first true "audiophile" experience - causing the hair on his arms to raise and he was shocked at this.

[davef]

So, if an existing Sierra-1 is upgraded with the new tweeter and crossover would it then be exactly the same as a Sierra Nrt or are there other changes such as cabinet, etc?

Exactly the same :)

[edmondwolfman]

Exactly the same :)

If a person were to get the Sierra-1s and then do the upgrade to NrTs when that becomes available would the price for the Sierra-1s + Upgrade be equivalent to the price of the Sierra NrT?

Also if someone purchases Sierra-1s and they decide to go with the towers someday will there be a trade in/ trade up program?

[Sam1000]

If a person were to get the Sierra-1s and then do the upgrade to NrTs when that becomes available would the price for the Sierra-1s + Upgrade be equivalent to the price of the Sierra NrT?

Also if someone purchases Sierra-1s and they decide to go with the towers someday will there be a trade in/ trade up program?

Agon is really good option for this :-) I'm sure many would lunge at an opportunity to grab the NrT off your hands at that time

[davef]

If a person were to get the Sierra-1s and then do the upgrade to NrTs when that becomes available would the price for the Sierra-1s + Upgrade be equivalent to the price of the Sierra NrT?

The Sierra-1 NrT will cost a bit less than if you purchased a pair of Sierra-1 and then later performed the NrT upgrade. The reason for this is simple, we save the cost of the Sierra-1 tweeter.

Yeesh -- below is edited to correct my mistake -- sorry for the initial confusion, spent most of last night listening to the new speakers and my brain is slow today due to lack of sleep :o

While we wait for parts to arrive, we will be running a limited quantity special on Sierra-1 speakers (not upgraded and limited by quantity) whereby these customers who purchase Sierra-1 and want the NrT upgrade, will only pay the difference between a new pair of Sierra-1 and a new pair of NrT + shipping, provided the NrT upgrade is purchased within 90 days.

I understand that this is going to leave our current Sierra-1 customers feeling left out, but I am evaluating the numbers and I am hoping to be able to offer a limited quanitity special to "split the difference" in price.

In other words, assuming the NrT upgrade comes in at $380 and a pair of Sierra-1 NrT are priced at a $300 premium.

Customers who purchase Sierra-1 now (since this announcement), will be able to add the NrT upgrade within 90-days for $300. After the 90-day period, the upgrade price would then be $380 ( or whatever it is at that time )

For the first 50 current Sierra-1 owners ordering the upgrade, we will split the difference such that the upgrade price would be $300 + (($380-$300)/2) = $340.

If anyone is interested in this right now, please send me a PM or email.


Also if someone purchases Sierra-1s and they decide to go with the towers someday will there be a trade in/ trade up program?

Yes, most definitely.

[GirgleMirt]

PM sent, with a bonus question in the pm! :)

Btw, is there a ballpark date when the upgrades will be available? As in, a few weeks or is it more like a few months?

edit: "I hate discussing products that are still a few months away", so still a few months away it sounds like...

[davef]

PM sent, with a bonus question in the pm! :)

Btw, is there a ballpark date when the upgrades will be available? As in, a few weeks or is it more like a few months?

edit: "I hate discussing products that are still a few months away", so still a few months away it sounds like...

I am very far behind with regard to emails and PM's right now -- so please be patient. I promise we will answer every question in every email and PM regarding this.

That being said, after 4 hours of direct A/B comparisons between the Sierra-1 NrT and Sierra-1, some of the major differences I noticed were:

* surprisingly large improvement in midrange clarity -- especially noticable with vocals and acoustic guitar. It does seem like another layer has been removed with the NrT and it is yet another step closer to the music. Mids are also fuller sounding, with more weight.

* I would say midrange is about 10 rows more forward sounding with slightly better center imaging. The NrT is a less laid back speaker.

* The upgraded tweeter is sharper and quicker, there is a noticeable imrprovement in attack and decay, such that instruments have more *snap* to them, a more concise impact. For example, with cymbals, the impact is clearly more defined with more delicacy and shimmer.

* Complex high-frequency detail is also more defined with noticeable improvements to instrument separation.

* I was concerned that poorly recorded material would sound worse on the NrT than standard Sierra-1 but to my surprise, I was wrong. Californication, while one of my all time fav CD's, is recorded very poorly. This CD sounds better on the NrT than Sierra-1 as the midrange sounds more lush, more weight to it and this seems draw one's attention away from the audible distortion in the source material. I attribute this to the more linear frequency response of the NrT, especially in the midrange such that the NrT is clearly better balanced throughout the speaker's bandwidth.

* Absolutely no change to bass extension, as expected.

[davef]

PM sent, with a bonus question in the pm! :)

Btw, is there a ballpark date when the upgrades will be available? As in, a few weeks or is it more like a few months?

edit: "I hate discussing products that are still a few months away", so still a few months away it sounds like...

Ballpark date -- this depends on 2 items. SEAS production (they are always a bit slow and they are on holiday right now until Aug 2nd and how we ship the parts... Shipping from Norway by ocean typically takes from 3 weeks to 1 month.

If we ship everything by air (which is an option), the final cost of the upgrade will increase by what I estimate to be between $5 - $10 each, to cover the huge expense of air-shipping this many parts. When all parts are ready and I can evaulate the cost of both shipping options, I will probably let you guys decide by which method we ship. Air-shipping will certainly shave about 3 weeks off the wait, but it will cost you (and us) a bit more.

[GirgleMirt]

Sounds good! :)


Californication, while one of my all time fav CD's, is recorded very poorly.
It's sad isn't it? Such great music ruined... I can't understand why there isn't a re-release of this great record, by anyone who gives two cents about sound quality... It would probably sell a lot, pretty much everyone who bought that record would probably buy it again so they could at least listen to the damn thing :( I'm somewhat skeptical that the new Sierras can make it sound good... One of my all time favorite bands, Modest Mouse, also has that kind of poor recording, albeit at a slightly lesser level... That was probably one of my worst deceptions when first spending time with good speakers, finding out how so many records are flawed and simply aren't worthy to play on a good stereo...

For shipping, I wouldn't mind either way, still have the Sierras so it's not urgent, and 5-10$ isn't a lot on a ~350$ purchase... Oh but that's per unit, so 10-20$ for 2 or 15-30$ for 3... Guess I wouldn't mind waiting a couple weeks then!

[edmondwolfman]

If a new customer like me was to go ahead and order Sierra-1s I could listen to them and then do the upgrade and be able to do a direct comparison...I would know how they both sound:D

Dave I sent you a PM this morning but I know you are busy so I'm not rushing you just giving you a heads up.

[Mag_Neato]

PM and email sent!
If it's only $5-$10 more to air ship, that's not horrible.
Will the Q plugs still function the same with the upgrade?

[Mike^S]

Hi Dave, is the improvements in frequency response due solely to the new tweeter and crossover?

I remember we discussed once how the diffraction off the edge of the cabinet caused some deviations in the FR. So the new tweeter and crossover was able to compensate for that? If so, that's pretty cool!

[mziegler]

The difference in the two Sierras is significant, and I am definitely upgrading. When we were listening, we had had one speaker as a reference which we compared to the old/new tweeter/crossover--and the difference was significant, much greater, I think, than the difference between the 340 and the Sierra.

[muzz]

The sooner you announce the price of the sierra upgrade the sooner I can plan how much beefaroni I'm gonna have to eat in the next 6 months..

LMAO :D

[muzz]

The difference in the two Sierras is significant, and I am definitely upgrading. When we were listening, we had had one speaker as a reference which we compared to the old/new tweeter/crossover--and the difference was significant, much greater, I think, than the difference between the 340 and the Sierra.

Sounds awesome!

Dave........your killing me :D

[Mike^S]

Any chance for magnetic grills?

[Mag_Neato]

So, Dave.......

Any info on how to reserve your spot for the upgrade? Thought I saw you posted on AVS about having new info for that.:confused:

[ediblestarfish]

Pretty sure he opened up a can with more than 50 worms. :p

[davef]

Pretty sure he opened up a can with more than 50 worms. :p

My apologies. My family had some bad news last Friday and it has been a rough couple of days for my family. Just starting to get caught up now...

[ediblestarfish]

Sorry to hear that... my condolences. I'm quite patient and don't mind you taking your time.

[kwarny]

Sorry to hear that. Take your time. We will hold down the fort here. You have educated most of enough to answer most questions.

[RicardoJoa]

Hi Dave,
i was wondering what kind of frequency response will the NRT sierra and the upgrade sierra exhibit and how far will it extend?

Thanks

[edmondwolfman]

There was a long and at least from 1 poster, pretentious thread earlier by, I think, TJHUB, where he was trying out the sierra-1s and something was missing for him as compared to the B&Ws he had been using for a while.

The way this Sierra upgrade is explained, that it has more upper detail, etc. is this what TJHUB was missing?

There was a lot of feedback from the forum members, very respectful and helpful, trying to help but not trying to force him to like the Sierra-1s. Many said that the Sierra-1s played music "like it is suppose to be heard" and I was wondering that all the posters that really like the way the current Sierra-1s sound will be turned off by the way the upgraded NrTs will sound:confused:

[curtis]

The Sierra-NrT does have a more extended top end (which I think TJ hub wanted), the change (to me) is more significant in the midrange...cleaner and more revealing.

That is what surprised me the most since I love the midrange of the Sierra-1.

[edmondwolfman]

The Sierra-NrT does have a more extended top end (which I think TJ hub wanted), the change (to me) is more significant in the midrange...cleaner and more revealing.

That is what surprised me the most since I love the midrange of the Sierra-1.

Curtis, so even though you were very happy with your Sierra-1s you think you might prefer the NrTs?

[curtis]

Curtis, so even though you were very happy with your Sierra-1s you think you might prefer the NrTs?
Not might, I do prefer them...for me, it's a better speaker, but also more expensive.

I am still very happy with my Sierra-1s, but I was amazed at what the new tweeter/crossover brought to the table.

As I mentioned earlier, the prototype tower was excellent, and I hope Dave can bring that to market, but the NrT surprised me even more.

[merrymaid520]

edmond,

TJHUB is a friend of mine who has heard my sierras at my place as well. I have discussed his concerns of the sierra-1's with him in person and you are correct, the top end is what lead him to ultimately go another route. I believe Dave has addressed this with the Nrt upgrade making the highs less veiled and more revealing.

I have to take Curtis' word on this since I have not heard them yet, but it sounds as if Dave has succeeded. I would like to hear the new sierra-1 Nrt but I am getting the Towers instead:p:D

Brandon


There was a long and at least from 1 poster, pretentious thread earlier by, I think, TJHUB, where he was trying out the sierra-1s and something was missing for him as compared to the B&Ws he had been using for a while.

The way this Sierra upgrade is explained, that it has more upper detail, etc. is this what TJHUB was missing?

There was a lot of feedback from the forum members, very respectful and helpful, trying to help but not trying to force him to like the Sierra-1s. Many said that the Sierra-1s played music "like it is suppose to be heard" and I was wondering that all the posters that really like the way the current Sierra-1s sound will be turned off by the way the upgraded NrTs will sound:confused:

[edmondwolfman]

Curtis, you said you also heard the towers, correct? I know they probably weren't the final version as Dave said he was still kicking around what the final product would be.

If you had to compare the towers and the NrTs what would your statement be? Do they sound the same except the towers will fill a large room better, do they sound completely different? Are they about the same height as the NrT's on stands? Inquiring minds :D

[curtis]

Curtis, you said you also heard the towers, correct? I know they probably weren't the final version as Dave said he was still kicking around what the final product would be.

If you had to compare the towers and the NrTs what would your statement be? Do they sound the same except the towers will fill a large room better, do they sound completely different? Are they about the same height as the NrT's on stands? Inquiring minds :D
The towers were definitely better than the NrT's....I just can't use towers in my room, so I try not to think about them. :)

Same family of sound, accuracy/neutrality, deeper bass extension, fuller sound, and that midrange driver offers more detail. What really stood out was the imaging....pinpoint imaging. If a sound was to be centered, it was dead smack centered...or wherever it should be, with great separation.

We could not compare the Sierra NrT to the towers directly via A/B switching because Dave only had one pair of the tweeters available...which both the NrT and tower used.

If we make another trip there, maybe Dave will let me take some pictures.

[edmondwolfman]

The towers were definitely better than the NrT's....I just can't use towers in my room, so I try not to think about them. :)

Same family of sound, accuracy/neutrality, deeper bass extension, fuller sound, and that midrange driver offers more detail. What really stood out was the imaging....pinpoint imaging. If a sound was to be centered, it was dead smack centered...or wherever it should be, with great separation.

We could not compare the Sierra NrT to the towers directly via A/B switching because Dave only had one pair of the tweeters available...which both the NrT and tower used.

If we make another trip there, maybe Dave will let me take some pictures.

Pics, pics, pics, pics :D

[Kucimat]

Hi Dave:

Just sent you a PM and an email wanting to be in the queue for the NrT upgrade kit for my Sierra-1s. Only question is whether I should upgrade all 5 of my Sieras or just the Mains and Center? Will the upgrade be that critical for my surrounds...any opinions?

[kwarny]

Dave personally visited my house with the tower speakers few nights ago. However I woke up from my dream before I was able to hear them :(. I should of took pictures.

[Mag_Neato]

What happened to Dave? Must be in his mad scientist laboratory cooking up some more experiments to tease us with!

[davef]

What happened to Dave? Must be in his mad scientist laboratory cooking up some more experiments to tease us with!

Sorry - been a very difficult past 6 days. We lost a loved one.

Working hard to get caught up now as I settle back into the daily grind.

[davef]

It's sad isn't it? Such great music ruined... I can't understand why there isn't a re-release of this great record, by anyone who gives two cents about sound quality... It would probably sell a lot, pretty much everyone who bought that record would probably buy it again so they could at least listen to the damn thing :(

I would most certainly purchase a remastered version!


I'm somewhat skeptical that the new Sierras can make it sound good...

Oh -- I wouldn't say the Sierra-1 NrT can make this CD sound good (nothing could), but the CD does sound better when compared to the standard Sierra-1.

[davef]

If a new customer like me was to go ahead and order Sierra-1s I could listen to them and then do the upgrade and be able to do a direct comparison...I would know how they both sound.

Most definitely. In this case, it would be best to upgrade one of the two speakers and then do a direct A/B monaural comparison between the two of them.

[davef]

Will the Q plugs still function the same with the upgrade?

Yes -- Q-plugs will function as designed, there is no change to the low end of the speaker or the port tuning.

[davef]

Hi Dave, is the improvements in frequency response due solely to the new tweeter and crossover?

Yes. The new tweeter allows us to do a few things differently in the crossover, including more precise control of the high-pass filter slope which allows for improved phase integration with the woofer (the stock Sierra-1 already has excellent phase integration but the NrT is even better).


I remember we discussed once how the diffraction off the edge of the cabinet caused some deviations in the FR. So the new tweeter and crossover was able to compensate for that? If so, that's pretty cool!

This is now compensated for in the new crossover... :) I will post the frequency response measurement sometime this weekend.

[Blake1214]

Hi Dave,

As much as I've been enjoying my Sierras, I can't wait for the towers!! From the sound of it, performance will certainly meet/exceed expectations. How about looks and finishes? Will it inherit the looks of the Sierras but in tower size? How about a cherry cabinet with a black piano finish in the front? Some of those white piano finishes adds a nice touch for a contemporary look. PLEASE give the towers some REALLY nice shoes!!! I think it's one of those "accessory" that can really adds value fairly cheaply.

Is a new center channel in the works to match the towers?

Blake

[ccotenj]

sorry to hear of your loss dave... :( i know it probably isn't much comfort, but there are people out here thinking of you...

sent you and dina an email to get on the upgrade list... looking forward to it... even though i'm using my remaining two sierra's as surrounds now, it certainly sounds worthwhile... :) plus it's possible (likely?) they'll get pushed back into 2 channel service again, my wife has been mentioning that they'd sound really good in her home office... :rolleyes:

now that you've got this worked out, when's the sierra-.5 coming???? :p

[Kucimat]

Hey Dave:

Have you determined a method for us to get entered into the queue or is replying to this thread enough? If so, I'd like to be in the queue.

Thanks,

Chris Eppley

[Mag_Neato]

I think it's safe to say this upgrade has generated quite a bit of interest.:rolleyes:

In the words of Tom Petty: "The waiting is the hardest part!":(

[SunByrne]

This new tweeter is fast, delicate and with loads of top-end air. It is the perfect solution for those that like the advantages of a soft dome but yet miss some of the positive aspects of a metal dome.


* The upgraded tweeter is sharper and quicker, there is a noticeable imrprovement in attack and decay, such that instruments have more *snap* to them, a more concise impact. For example, with cymbals, the impact is clearly more defined with more delicacy and shimmer.

The lack of snap like a metal dome tweeter is precisely my one very small quibble with my new Sierra-1s. I still think they're the best speakers around for the money, but that's the one spot where I felt the Paradigms were a smidge better. If the Sierra-1s now have this sizzle, they'd be pretty much perfect for me. I can't wait to hear this.

So, if there is a list being built for upgrades, please put me on it.

:p Of course, this would happen less than two months after buying them. My timing, as usual, is impeccable.

[davef]

Hey Dave:

Have you determined a method for us to get entered into the queue or is replying to this thread enough? If so, I'd like to be in the queue.

Thanks,

Chris Eppley

Yes... To be placed in the upgrade queue, please send an email to dinaL "at" ascendacoustics ( dot com) .... Trying to avoid the spam by not listing the exact email address.

Please provide Dina with your full name, phone number and the number of Sierra's you would like to upgrade.

Sorry for all the delays :o

[Mag_Neato]

Dave, I sent another PM to you as I am unable at present to send a personal email to Dina. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me know if you can do, or not.

Thanks!:o

[logicology]

David,

I have Sierra-1 LCR plus other speakers in the rear. Would it be bad to only upgrade the LR speakers and leave the Center as-is?

[curtis]

I wouldn't call it "bad".

But the midrange of the NrT is bit more forward, and the center channel handles more midrange because of vocals than the L/R channels.

Personally, I would just leave the front three alone until I could upgrade them all.

[edmondwolfman]

Or do the center and then the l and r later :)

[cacophony777]

So when do we get to see a pic of the new tower speaker? :D

[merrymaid520]

So when do we get to see a pic of the new tower speaker? :D

I second that idea^^^^^^;):D

[SeattleDucks]

Dave, will there be a horizontal configuration of the upcoming tower for center channel use?

[davef]

The lack of snap like a metal dome tweeter is precisely my one very small quibble with my new Sierra-1s. I still think they're the best speakers around for the money, but that's the one spot where I felt the Paradigms were a smidge better. If the Sierra-1s now have this sizzle, they'd be pretty much perfect for me. I can't wait to hear this.

So, if there is a list being built for upgrades, please put me on it.

I think you will be quite impressed with this upgrade. Which Paradigms were you comparing to?

To get on the list, please send an NrT upgrade request to dinal at ascendacoustics (dot com)

Thanks!

[sbeveraggi]

I think you will be quite impressed with this upgrade. Which Paradigms were you comparing to?

To get on the list, please send an NrT upgrade request to dinal at ascendacoustics (dot com)

Thanks!

How do you think Sierras NrT will compare with Paradigm Signature S2 v3?
I know these are much more expensive, but want to know how close to those I could get with the upgrade....

[SunByrne]

I think you will be quite impressed with this upgrade. Which Paradigms were you comparing to?

Studio 20s. I thought the Sierras were better in pretty much every other way, but missing a little sizzle at the top end. I thought the Paradigms might actually be a little too harsh at the top end for longer listening, but there's still a crispness there that the Sierras lack that I think could be achieved without being as harsh, and that sounds like what you're saying you have with the NrTs, so I would LOVE that.


To get on the list, please send an NrT upgrade request to dinal at ascendacoustics (dot com)

Done! Can't wait to hear 'em!
:D

[GirgleMirt]

Btw, what's the plan for the current Sierra-1? Will it still be sold or will the new one replace it? Will the new Sierra be the Sierra-2? What about the tower, has it's name been chosen yet?

[curtis]

My understanding is the current Sierra-1 will live on.

[davef]

So when do we get to see a pic of the new tower speaker? :D


I second that idea^^^^^^;):D

Guys -- the design is not 100% complete just yet and I hate to post anything publicly that may or may not be representative of the final version.

[davef]

How do you think Sierras NrT will compare with Paradigm Signature S2 v3?
I know these are much more expensive, but want to know how close to those I could get with the upgrade....


Studio 20s. I thought the Sierras were better in pretty much every other way, but missing a little sizzle at the top end. I thought the Paradigms might actually be a little too harsh at the top end for longer listening, but there's still a crispness there that the Sierras lack that I think could be achieved without being as harsh, and that sounds like what you're saying you have with the NrTs, so I would LOVE that. Done! Can't wait to hear 'em!
:D

sbeveraggi,

I would say SunByrne has summed up my personal opinion between the two quite well. I will add that the Sierra-1 NrT has a cleaner, more open and transparent midrange than the stock Sierra-1 and the new tweeter provides about as much sizzle and crispness that is possible without sound harsh. I would place it somewhere in between the stock Sierra-1 tweeter and the Studio 20 tweeter. It is not metal so it won't have the same amount of sizzle, but it also will not suffer from ringing, which is why metal domes -- even the best of them -- can sound fatiguing over time, especially at loud volume levels.

[merrymaid520]

Slightly off topic......

Curtis, your PM box is full;)

[curtis]

Anybody in the SoCal area interested in hearing the Sierra NrT and the prototype tower?

We are planning a listening session for Sunday, August 29th at Ascend. Other speakers will be welcomed as well.

[Lucas]

Guys -- the design is not 100% complete just yet and I hate to post anything publicly that may or may not be representative of the final version.

What kind of timeframe are you looking at on the towers? Dont need eact numbers, just a general timeframe. I said a few years ago, after i bought some of the 340s and 170s, that if you guys ever made some towers i would buy a set of them. Knowing now that you are working on some gets me all excited!

Are we looking at seeing some within the next month or two...six months...within the next year? Or are they a couple years out for consumers?

Thanks,
Lucas

[DavidD]

Anybody in the SoCal area interested in hearing the Sierra NrT and the prototype tower?

We are planning a listening session for Sunday, August 29th at Ascend. Other speakers will be welcomed as well.

As I said elsewhere, I'm planning on coming. Any particular time in mind?

[curtis]

I think right now we are planning for about 10am to start...but when things firm up, I will let you know.

It will be good to see you.

[davef]

What kind of timeframe are you looking at on the towers? Dont need eact numbers, just a general timeframe. I said a few years ago, after i bought some of the 340s and 170s, that if you guys ever made some towers i would buy a set of them. Knowing now that you are working on some gets me all excited!

Are we looking at seeing some within the next month or two...six months...within the next year? Or are they a couple years out for consumers?

Thanks,
Lucas

I hate quoting time frames because it then causes additional pressure to hit that deadline and we are going all-out with this product. To quote a classic, we will get there when we get there :p

Seriously though, 6 months sounds about right.

[davef]

Dave, will there be a horizontal configuration of the upcoming tower for center channel use?

Many have asked us about this and while I can't say for sure at this point in time, I will say that we are indeed evaluating a few different designs...

[davef]

Btw, what's the plan for the current Sierra-1? Will it still be sold or will the new one replace it? Will the new Sierra be the Sierra-2? What about the tower, has it's name been chosen yet?

Hi Girgle,

The Sierra-1 will not change at all. There will be an option to add the upgraded tweeter and crossover thus turning the Sierra-1 into the Sierra-1 NrT. In addition, the NrT upgrade kit will be available to all Sierra-1 owners, thus turning their Sierra-1 into Sierra-1 NrT.

With regard to the tower, someone who has been waiting for a very long time suggested calling it the Sierra RT (as in reference tower) I like the name but we haven't finalized anything yet.

[DavidD]

I think right now we are planning for about 10am to start...but when things firm up, I will let you know.

It will be good to see you.

Yeah. It's been quite a while. I'm looking forward to this.

[Lucas]

I hate quoting time frames because it then causes additional pressure to hit that deadline and we are going all-out with this product. To quote a classic, we will get there when we get there :p

Seriously though, 6 months sounds about right.

Awesome, I wont hold you to that. But i will try to get some money saved up so hopefuly i can be on the preorder list:D

[Quinn]

With regard to the tower, someone who has been waiting for a very long time suggested calling it the Sierra RT (as in reference tower) I like the name but we haven't finalized anything yet.


Not bad. But I'd think that Sierra 1 NRT and Sierra RT would get confusing and the differences might get lost on the audio forums.

You could stick with the Sierra /Ascend/reaching the peak of audio purity theme and call it the Denali. Highest peak in NA. Athabaskan for "The High One".

I also like "Divide" for multiple meanings, although it is a more vague mountain reference. You are indicating it will be the watershed tower at its' price point. Maybe Sierra Divide? Ascend Divide sounds better to me and adds to multiple meanings.

[merrymaid520]

Not bad. But I'd think that Sierra 1 NRT and Sierra RT would get confusing and the differences might get lost on the audio forums.

You could stick with the Sierra /Ascend/reaching the peak of audio purity theme and call it the Denali. Highest peak in NA. Athabaskan for "The High One".

I also like "Divide" for multiple meanings, although it is a more vague mountain reference. You are indicating it will be the watershed tower at its' price point. Maybe Sierra Divide? Ascend Divide sounds better to me and adds to multiple meanings.

I had also suggested Sierra 3RT if the tower ends up being a 3-way.Lots of options:)

[Sam1000]

Hi Dave:
IS it possible to post the dimensions of the prototype tower? I completely understand that the design is not final yet and the dimensions might change later..

[davef]

Hi Guys,

For those of you interested,

attached is an exploded drawing of the new tweeter.

[davef]

Hi Dave:
IS it possible to post the dimensions of the prototype tower? I completely understand that the design is not final yet and the dimensions might change later..

PM sent :)

[Jonnyozero3]

Hi Guys,

For those of you interested,

attached is an exploded drawing of the new tweeter.

Speaker porn! Yes!!

[davef]

I will post more updates as more info comes my way...

After confirming with our vendors, it seems we should have all of the parts here for the Nrt upgrade kit by the 2nd week of October -- about 7 more weeks.

I wish it were sooner but all things considered, not too bad at all.

[davef]

Attached are comparison frequency response measurements. Stock Sierra-1 curves are green, Sierra-1 NrT are yellow.

First graph is an actual in-room response at 2 meters, reflections and all, speaker placed in the middle of the room at about 4 feet high.

Second graph is the same measurement with reflections taken out, unsmoothed. Bass response below 200Hz should be ignored and port tube output is not included.

Third graph is zoomed in to better see what the new tweeter is doing compared to the stock tweeter.

A few comments:

1. Notice the considerable difference in high-frequency extension. Stock tweeter is about -3dB at 22kHz. NrT is -3dB at ~ 28kHz with much more information above 18kHz.

2. The pesky dip at 3kHz has been reduced to only 1/2dB, which is inaudible.

3. Two other dips in the response have been resolved.

4. Overall curve is remarkably linear, coming in at an amazing +/- 0.5dB throughout the bandwidth of the speaker. (note, port tube output is not factored into the anechoic response, which will fill in the mild dip in output below 500Hz)

I should mention that there is a lot more to this new tweeter than frequency response improvements. Improved damping, better transient accuracy, higher power handling, better cooling and lower distortion -- but I feel the most obvious way to visualize the improvement is to simply compare the response measurements.

I took these comparison measurements just the other night and I grabbed a random Sierra-1 from the production line. Interestingly enough, look how close the Sierra-1 quasi-anechoic in-room measurement matched up with the anechoic measurement for the Sierra-1 on our site (you must ignore the new measurement below 200Hz). They are almost identical! Considering the speakers production dates are nearly 4 years apart, that is remarkable and something even I did not expect :p

Enjoy!

[ediblestarfish]

Thanks for the info, it'll make those 7 weeks seem longer. :p

[SunByrne]

2. The pesky dip at 3kHz has been reduced to only 1/2dB, which is inaudible.

That would be fabulous.


4. Overall curve is remarkably linear, coming in at an amazing +/- 0.5dB throughout the bandwidth of the speaker.

Impressive. VERY impressive. :eek:


I should mention that there is a lot more to this new tweeter than freqency response improvements. Improved damping, better transient accuracy, higher power handling, better cooling and lower distortion

"Better transient accuracy"... If I wasn't already on the list to get the upgrade, you'd have me now. Dave, you have an amazing talent for writing exactly what I want to read about these things.

To say that I'm eagerly awaiting their arrival, well, that'd fall under "epic understatement." Can I slip you an extra $100 to make them come faster? Please? :D

[GirgleMirt]

Attached are comparison frequency response measurements. Stock Sierra-1 curves are green, Sierra-1 NrT are yellow.

First graph is an actual in-room response at 2 meters, reflections and all, speaker placed in the middle of the room at about 4 feet high.

Second graph is the same measurement with reflections taken out, unsmoothed. Bass response below 200Hz should be ignored and port tube output is not included.

Third graph is zoomed in to better see what the new tweeter is doing compared to the stock tweeter.

A few comments:

1. Notice the considerable difference in high-frequency extension. Stock tweeter is about -3dB at 22kHz. NrT is -3dB at ~ 28kHz with much more information above 18kHz.

2. The pesky dip at 3kHz has been reduced to only 1/2dB, which is inaudible.

3. Two other dips in the response have been resolved.

4. Overall curve is remarkably linear, coming in at an amazing +/- 0.5dB throughout the bandwidth of the speaker. (note, port tube output is not factored into the anechoic response, which will fill in the mild dip in output below 500Hz)

I should mention that there is a lot more to this new tweeter than frequency response improvements. Improved damping, better transient accuracy, higher power handling, better cooling and lower distortion -- but I feel the most obvious way to visualize the improvement is to simply compare the response measurements.

I took these comparison measurements just the other night and I grabbed a random Sierra-1 from the production line. Interestingly enough, look how close the Sierra-1 quasi-anechoic in-room measurement matched up with the anechoic measurement for the Sierra-1 on our site (you must ignore the new measurement below 200Hz). They are almost identical! Considering the speakers production dates are nearly 4 years apart, that is remarkable and something even I did not expect :p

Enjoy!

Looking good! :D Can't wait!

[scape]

i thought the tower concept was not an idea you were looking into. well nice to see some new models coming out, the new tweeter has me really excited. is an mtm on the way? i was hoping i read something about that along the way in this thread ;)

[curtis]

The prototype! I think the consensus of everyone there was they were fabulous.

Dave...thanks for allowing some of us over for a listen. Hospitality was great, great music, and great speakers!

[tntbigman23]

The prototype! I think the consensus of everyone there was they were fabulous.

Dave...thanks for allowing some of us over for a listen. Hospitality was great, great music, and great speakers!

Interesting Tower concept. Any idea of the estimated price range?

[curtis]

Interesting Tower concept. Any idea of the estimated price range?
I don't think it is an unusual concept. It is a MTWW arrangement.

Price range was discussed, I think it would be safe to say that Dave is aiming below the $2K mark.

We also heard the Sierra NrT, but it looks like the Sierra-1 with a black colored waveguide.

[Mike^S]

Wow, looks great! Wish I could have been there. Stupid work! :mad:

[Jonnyozero3]

The prototype! I think the consensus of everyone there was they were fabulous.

Dave...thanks for allowing some of us over for a listen. Hospitality was great, great music, and great speakers!


Dave - Those speakers are gorgeous. I'd like to sign up for serial numbers 1 and 2 please :)

I'm serious.

Jon

[Asliang]

It looks like the new tweeter has an upward trending response that peaks around 4-5dB at ~24KHz. Is that going to sound "hot" in the treble compared to the original Sierra-1?

[pj-]

Unless you have dog hearing, anything above 20khz isn't going to be audible to you

[M3_Pete]

Unless you have dog hearing, anything above 20khz isn't going to be audible to you

Most people probably can't even hear up to 20khz, that's generally considered the upper limit. And after about age 8 your ability to hear high frequencies begins to diminish. So if you are old enough to afford the speakers, you probably won't hear any spikes near 20khz, and certainly none above that.

[M3_Pete]

The prototype! I think the consensus of everyone there was they were fabulous.

Dave...thanks for allowing some of us over for a listen. Hospitality was great, great music, and great speakers!
with that big ding on the bottom right, those must be B-Stock. How much?

:D

[curtis]

with that big ding on the bottom right, those must be B-Stock. How much?

:D
You can see the prototype crossover on the floor behind the speaker as well.

My understanding is that this pair is spoken for. :)

[davef]

i thought the tower concept was not an idea you were looking into.

You can thank "merrymaid" on our forum for this :)



is an mtm on the way? i was hoping i read something about that along the way in this thread ;)

I am experimenting with a few other concepts. Not sure what approach (if any) we will take regrading this but this would be well into 2011 at a minimum.

[M3_Pete]

You can see the prototype crossover on the floor behind the speaker as well.

My understanding is that this pair is spoken for. :)

Needs to be saved for the Ascend history museum.

[merrymaid520]

You can thank "merrymaid" on our forum for this :)



I must confess, I have been "nudging" Dave on the tower concept for quite some time, probably pushing over a year by now. I don't know if he thanks me for it or just did it to put an end to my constant email inquiries;):D

For the rest of you wanting an Ascend Tower, you are welcome!!!

HA:)

Dave,
Sounds like you put on quite the demo yesterday, 8 hours of serious audio nirvana! A little black spray paint and "my" pair will be ready:p


Brandon

[MichaelG]

Wow! I've been in lala land enjoying my music and then I get a facebook update on the new Sierra-1 upgrade while my wife and I are driving down the road! The look on my face said it all. :eek: My wife didn't even hesitate to tell me to go for it! Upgraditis has set in!!

Do you know how hard it is to read through all this on a cell phone! Very exciting news and I'm all in on upgrading my Sierra's! I have enjoyed every version and can't wait to hear what Dave's been cooking up this time!

Woohoo!!!

[Sam1000]

I don't think it is an unusual concept. It is a MTWW arrangement.

Price range was discussed, I think it would be safe to say that Dave is aiming below the $2K mark.

We also heard the Sierra NrT, but it looks like the Sierra-1 with a black colored waveguide.

Are these the same drivers from Sierra-1(Nrt) in that Tower? Also, the driver for the mids is from 340?

[curtis]

Are these the same drivers from Sierra-1(Nrt) in that Tower? Also, the driver for the mids is from 340?
The tweeter is the same NrT tweeter. Dave currently only has two of them for testing, so he and Sal had to swap them in and out of the Sierra-NrT and tower so we could listen. The woofer is the same woofer that is in the Sierra-1/NrT.

The mid is completely new and proprietary to Ascend, as are all drivers in Ascend speakers.

Here is a picture of one that Dave showed to us (it's a bit dusty). This one is slightly different as the phase plug is silver where I believe Dave has chosen to go with the gold color you see in the pictures of the tower.

[curtis]

I little more info on the session.

We did A LOT of listening. The group started out as eight(if you include Dave and Sal). Two of us own Ascends(four if you include Dave and Sal :) ). Five of us know each other from the AVS forum and are part of a LA audio/video group that gets together once in a while to visit each other's home theaters/audio setups, movie sound mixing studios, speaker companies, and a/v magazine companies in the area, etc. I posted an invite in the LA meet thread and three of them decided to make the drive to San Clemente.

It was a real good time listening the speakers and comparing. For me, the different music also makes it enjoyable, as well as talking "shop" and learning new things. On top of that, Dave treated us to some great pizza at a local joint.

Thanks again, Dave!

[davef]

I am still feeling the results from that "porker" pizza, of which six adult men were unable to finish... :eek:

[cacophony777]

How tall is that prototype tower?

[curtis]

How tall is that prototype tower?
I think it is around 42" give or take an inch or so.

[edmondwolfman]

Ok, I'm ready for someone to give us the in depth review, comparisons, etc. :D

[SunByrne]

We also heard the Sierra NrT, but it looks like the Sierra-1 with a black colored waveguide.

And? How did it sound, particularly in comparison to the standard Sierra-1?

[curtis]

And? How did it sound, particularly in comparison to the standard Sierra-1?
The midrange is a bit more forward/fleshed out, with a bit more detail. Highs are crisper and more distinct.

[DavidD]

I am still feeling the results from that "porker" pizza, of which six adult men were unable to finish... :eek:

It was good, though.

[davef]

It was good, though.

Most definitely :)

[davef]

The midrange is a bit more forward/fleshed out, with a bit more detail. Highs are crisper and more distinct.

I also find them cleaner with better transparency -- sharper with clearly defined and more prominent "attack". Things like string plucks on acoustic guitars and the shimmer and sizzle of cymbals are more realistic. It is certainly not a night and day difference as the tweeter in the standard Sierra-1 is excellent, but for those who want that additional detail and clarity and who seek that next-level performance, I feel this tweeter will get you there.

[davef]

It was good, though.

Hi David,

Care to share your thoughts a bit on what you heard?

I recall you also preferred the Sierra-1 NrT compared to the stock Sierra-1 (as did everyone else), do you remember what you heard? Many inquiring minds want your feedback.

[edmondwolfman]

The tweeter is the same NrT tweeter. Dave currently only has two of them for testing, so he and Sal had to swap them in and out of the Sierra-NrT and tower so we could listen. The woofer is the same woofer that is in the Sierra-1/NrT.

The mid is completely new and proprietary to Ascend, as are all drivers in Ascend speakers.

Here is a picture of one that Dave showed to us (it's a bit dusty). This one is slightly different as the phase plug is silver where I believe Dave has chosen to go with the gold color you see in the pictures of the tower.

What is the benefit of the plug in the middle of the mid? I've seen similar cones on other speakers, KEF comes to mind off the top of my head.

[curtis]

What is the benefit of the plug in the middle of the mid? I've seen similar cones on other speakers, KEF comes to mind off the top of my head.
Here's a good explanation:
http://www.preference-audio.com/phaseplug.htm

In addition, some phase plugs also aid in the cooling of the voicecoil.

Also keep in mind there are dustcaps that look like phase plugs, I am not sure how effective they are. A phase plug is stationary, while a dustcap is not.

In the KEFs, many of their midrange drivers are coaxial, meaning they also incorporate the tweeter, so the center piece is not necessarily a phase plug.

[curtis]

I also find them cleaner with better transparency -- sharper with clearly defined and more prominent "attack". Things like string plucks on acoustic guitars and the shimmer and sizzle of cymbals are more realistic. It is certainly not a night and day difference as the tweeter in the standard Sierra-1 is excellent, but for those who want that additional detail and clarity and who seek that next-level performance, I feel this tweeter will get you there.
The differences are so much easier to hear with the instant A/B switching.

I went home and listened to my Sierra-1's, and perfectly happy, but difficult to get the comparison out of my head.

[Jonnyozero3]

.... but difficult to get the comparison out of my head.

Dahhhnt dahhhnt daaaah

/ominous music

:)

[DavidD]

Hi David,

Care to share your thoughts a bit on what you heard?

I recall you also preferred the Sierra-1 NrT compared to the stock Sierra-1 (as did everyone else), do you remember what you heard? Many inquiring minds want your feedback.

Of course. I'll try to do that this evening.

[ebh]

tower looks like it will look great, and sounds like it will sound even better. can't wait. wife said we could get a pair because she hates the wobbly bookshelf speakers (and she hates how most stands look so it's not just a question of better stands). didn't care about price. A pair will be mine when it is released. huzzah! I assume it'll be bamboo? Hard to tell from the pictures.

I'll probably want to upgrade at least my center sierra-1 then, to match the new tweeter in the tower.

Good times. I also thank facebook for the heads up--haven't been lurking much recently.

[GirgleMirt]

Why MTWW and not TMWW like we usually see?

[curtis]

Why MTWW and not TMWW like we usually see?
I bet it has something to do with OPPIX crossover and getting all the drivers to mimic a single point source radiator.

[edmondwolfman]

The differences are so much easier to hear with the instant A/B switching.

I went home and listened to my Sierra-1's, and perfectly happy, but difficult to get the comparison out of my head.

Curtis, do you think now that you will do the upgrade to the NrT or even consider the towers?

I haven't seen anyone say something like "wow that tower is so much better than the standmounts" or "the difference in the Sierra-1 NrT and the tower aren't so great that I have to move to the towers".

Inquiring minds. Oh and does Dave think the towers will be for sale this year?

[curtis]

Curtis, do you think now that you will do the upgrade to the NrT or even consider the towers?

I haven't seen anyone say something like "wow that tower is so much better than the standmounts" or "the difference in the Sierra-1 NrT and the tower aren't so great that I have to move to the towers".

Inquiring minds. Oh and does Dave think the towers will be for sale this year?
Have you seen the Sierra thread on AVS and what a non-Ascend owner posted of the listening session?

If I can get the towers to work in my room...that's the route I will go. It will take some planning with my finances though. I want to get a new TV first. :)

[Mike^S]

Curtis, are you still rocking that Epson rear pro? :p

[DavidD]

Of course. I'll try to do that this evening.

As promised, here are my reactions...

I heard the Sierras for the first time just a few weeks ago. I couldn't stay as long as I would have liked, but I was very impressed. In an email to Dave, I think I used the woods "eye opening.". I was pretty excited to hear the Nrt and tower speakers on Sunday, but I was also wondering whether I would notice any difference. Well, I did. The Siera Nrt is a noticeable improvement over the Sierra. The mids and highs had much greater clarity and presence. I wasn't listening to speakers as much as listening to music. Imaging was excellent as well.

As for the tower, everything I said applies, and more. The three-way design adds even more to the virtues of the stand mounted unit.

Dave, thanks for the great day, and the opportunity to get a look into what is coming.

[curtis]

Curtis, are you still rocking that Epson rear pro? :p
Ya see...people even make fun of my TV!

[edmondwolfman]

Have you seen the Sierra thread on AVS and what a non-Ascend owner posted of the listening session?

If I can get the towers to work in my room...that's the route I will go. It will take some planning with my finances though. I want to get a new TV first. :)

I haven't seen posts from other forums, I'll go look for it.

[edmondwolfman]

I've seen several discussions where people say in general its easier to get a 2 way speaker to sound better than a 3 way because the crossover is much easier to do, that when you have a 3 way and you adjust one of the crossovers it may affect the other. I think it was Dennis Murphy over at the Salk site.

From a couple of the reviews is sounds like Dave had no problem working out the crossovers for his new 3 way:D

[mziegler]

I doubt he had no problems. The results, however, are superb.

[curtis]

I am sure Dave had issues to deal with. He mentioned that from the first time I/we heard the prototype tower a month or two ago, he made a half dozen changes, but did not get the results he wanted from them.

From those of us that have experienced Ascend's products, we know that Dave does exceptionally well with his engineering and designing. This is Ascend's first tower and three-way, and it is superb...and it is only going to get better when it is in its final form.

[davef]

As promised, here are my reactions...

I heard the Sierras for the first time just a few weeks ago. I couldn't stay as long as I would have liked, but I was very impressed. In an email to Dave, I think I used the woods "eye opening.". I was pretty excited to hear the Nrt and tower speakers on Sunday, but I was also wondering whether I would notice any difference. Well, I did. The Siera Nrt is a noticeable improvement over the Sierra. The mids and highs had much greater clarity and presence. I wasn't listening to speakers as much as listening to music. Imaging was excellent as well.

As for the tower, everything I said applies, and more. The three-way design adds even more to the virtues of the stand mounted unit.

Dave, thanks for the great day, and the opportunity to get a look into what is coming.

David,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I was very pleased that you were in attendance. You MUST bring your speakers next time ;)

[davef]

I haven't seen anyone say something like "wow that tower is so much better than the standmounts" or "the difference in the Sierra-1 NrT and the tower aren't so great that I have to move to the towers".

Probably because we never directly compared the towers to the Sierra-1 (either standard or NrT) and come to think of it, we probably should have.... Next time...


Oh and does Dave think the towers will be for sale this year?

That is a tough one and I will give you my most honest answer... It is indeed possible. Many variables that are not in our control are at work here (so many vendors to deal with).

[davef]

How tall is that prototype tower?

With the removable base attached, total height will be approximately 44".

[edmondwolfman]

With the removable base attached, total height will be approximately 44".

Does the base have spikes, rubber feet....what?

[Mike_in_FL]

Ha, just when I thought it was safe to use my HT, Dave comes up with a new way to separate me from my money :D

I have been really enjoying my Sierras for both HT and music, and they get compliments from all those who see and hear them. However, after reading the comments from those who have heard Dave's latest offerings, the temptation to either upgrade or get the new towers is strong... Better start saving my pennies :) The idea of a trade-in program for the towers is definitely interesting to me, but I am already thinking that it will be hard to part with my Sierras, so maybe they will become my surrounds! Would you take my 340SE's in trade instead? ;)

It is a pleasure dealing with Dave and his company, and I really like the way he does business. A beautifully made product at a very fair price from someone who really cares about what they are doing. All too rare...

Mike

[davef]

My understanding is......yes. The upgrade involves a new tweeter and crossover, with the woofer carried over. The improved tweeter allows a different crossover frequency which allows more of the mid frequencies to play through the tweeter. The mids and highs are thus improved as the woofer is freed up to handle the lower stuff and not induce as much, though minute, amounts of distortion into the midrange.

If I am totally off base, please step in Dave!

This is a good explanation but is only part of it. The larger factor on why there is an improved midrange response is three-fold.

The new tweeter has a considerably shallower acoustic roll-off. In other words, lower frequencies don't roll off as quickly as the previous tweeter. This isn't necessarily a benefit in itself but the shallower acoustic roll-off allows us to have more precise control over the overall low-frequency tweeter roll-off when combined with the precision high-pass filter of the new crossover. The benefit of this is even tighter phase integration between the woofer and tweeter allowing improved coherency. The woofer and tweeter blend together seamlessly.

In addition to the above, the new tweeter has reduced mass in the diaphragm, a significantly stronger magnetic field and the voice coil is now underhung, such that the entire voice coil remains within the magnetic gap at all times. The above characteristics all combine to dramatically reduce distortion at lower frequencies.

And finally, with the new crossover, we were able to reduce series resistance and inductance in the woofer circuit by removing an inductor that was no longer needed due to the new tweeter slope. Efficiency is improved with the reduced resistance and transient response and distortion is improved with the removal of the inductor.

There are many technical improvements here but I must stress that while I can easily hear the differences, not everyone will as so much depends on your own listening skills and hearing…

[davef]

Any chance for magnetic grills?

This would be nearly impossible to achieve with the full bamboo cabinet. Installing magnets into the front baffle would require either veneering over them (we don't use a veneer) or filling and then painting over them. Only the piano black finish is painted.

To be honest, I have had very bad personal experience with magnetic grilles in the past. There are a lot of things that can go wrong and repairing / replacing the hidden magnets is impossible once the cabinet is finished. With the bamboo cabinetry and lack of veneer, these speaker cabinets are built to last a lifetime without any problems :)

[davef]

Hi Dave,

As much as I've been enjoying my Sierras, I can't wait for the towers!! From the sound of it, performance will certainly meet/exceed expectations. How about looks and finishes? Will it inherit the looks of the Sierras but in tower size? How about a cherry cabinet with a black piano finish in the front? Some of those white piano finishes adds a nice touch for a contemporary look. PLEASE give the towers some REALLY nice shoes!!! I think it's one of those "accessory" that can really adds value fairly cheaply.

If all goes as planned (and so far it is), we will be able to offer some custom finish options for reasonable upcharges at some point after initial release. Cherry stained cabinet with a piano black front baffle should not be too difficult.

[markie]

I recall pictures of a bookshelf speaker shoot out where it showed the top down profiles of at least five speakers. The Sierra was easily the smallest of the bunch if I recall, and very pretty. Definitely a positive feature especially considering WAF.

The towers will apparently carry the same width and depth dimensions as the Sierras (7.5" and 10.5"), and with a height of 44" (including the removable base) these towers will appear as slim and elegant beauties - even cute! - in comparison to the more beastly towers out there. More WAF.

Some questions for Dave and anyone else at the tower listening session:

The Sierras have a typical in room response down to about 38 hz -3db or thereabouts. Will the towers achieve much below this?

The Sierras have an efficiency of about 87db/watt/1m. I'm guessing the towers might be around 89?

Was the difference appreciable having a dedicated midrange driver? How did this new driver sound?

What were your impressions of the dynamics, imaging and soundstage?

Will the towers do as well at low volumes as I hear the current Sierra does?

Being front ported, are they designed to do well close to a back wall?

Thanks in advance!

Mark

[curtis]

I'll take a stab at answering these. I'm sure Dave will correct me if I am wrong. :)

Some questions for Dave and anyone else at the tower listening session:

The Sierras have a typical in room response down to about 38 hz -3db or thereabouts. Will the towers achieve much below this?
We compared the Sierra-NrT and the tower, side by side in mono. Yes, the tower plays appreciably lower.

The Sierras have an efficiency of about 87db/watt/1m. I'm guessing the towers might be around 89?
Dave did mention they would have higher efficiency.

Was the difference appreciable having a dedicated midrange driver? How did this new driver sound?
Absolutely. More detail, openess, and transparancy. It was quite a difference when comparing side by side with the A/B switcher.

What were your impressions of the dynamics, imaging and soundstage?
Dynamics and soundstage were outstanding, but I think what really stood out was the imaging. Great imaging, not only on-axis, but off-axis as well.

Will the towers do as well at low volumes as I hear the current Sierra does?
Any Ascend speaker I have heard, has done well at low volumes. While we did not specifically compare low volume listening, I don't see why the tower would be any different, especially given its ability with regards to detail.

Being front ported, are they designed to do well close to a back wall?
As with any speaker, placement with regards to performance is room related. Being front ported definitely helps in placement flexibility, and makes it easier to locate it closer to the back wall. Also remember, placing any speaker closer to that back wall also affects soundstage, imaging, etc.

[Sherlock]

This would be nearly impossible to achieve with the full bamboo cabinet. Installing magnets into the front baffle would require either veneering over them (we don't use a veneer) or filling and then painting over them. Only the piano black finish is painted.

To be honest, I have had very bad personal experience with magnetic grilles in the past. There are a lot of things that can go wrong and repairing / replacing the hidden magnets is impossible once the cabinet is finished. With the bamboo cabinetry and lack of veneer, these speaker cabinets are built to last a lifetime without any problems :)

Ok, if we can't have magnetic grilles (which have both good and bad points) can we get metal studs instead of plastic? Like on ERA speakers?

[Mag_Neato]

Ok, if we can't have magnetic grilles (which have both good and bad points) can we get metal studs instead of plastic? Like on ERA speakers?

For what purpose? The pins are on the grill and not visible. It would only increase cost for no benefit.

[Sherlock]

For what purpose? The pins are on the grill and not visible. It would only increase cost for no benefit.

Plastic pins BREAK.

[davef]

OK, if we can't have magnetic grilles (which have both good and bad points) can we get metal studs instead of plastic? Like on ERA speakers?


For what purpose? The pins are on the grill and not visible. It would only increase cost for no benefit.


Plastic pins BREAK.

Actually, the plastic grille pins we use on our Sierra-1 (also on CMT-340) do not break. While they can certainly break free from the grille frame itself, there is no difference in that regard between the metal pins (aluminum) and the plastic ones we use. With approximately 15,000 grilles out there using these pins, we have never received a report of a broken pin, not one. I should also mention that I have seen the aluminum pins "pit" over time when a customer's residence is near the shore. Living near the shore myself, there is nothing more annoying than pitted aluminum.

That being said, I know at least one of our competitors actually uses the fact that they use "metal" grille pins in their marketing. The metal pins really don't cost more than the plastic ones (pennies) and they certainly don't last longer either. You learn these seemingly small things when you have been doing this as long as I have.

While I do understand that using the metal pins might appear as a more durable, more expensive grille frame -- it isn't ;)

Note: Just tried to break one with a pliers... The plastic pin will rip out from the grille frame well before it will snap in half. It is really tough to break one of these.

[Sherlock]

Actually, the plastic grille pins we use on our Sierra-1 (also on CMT-340) do not break. While they can certainly break free from the grille frame itself, there is no difference in that regard between the metal pins (aluminum) and the plastic ones we use. With approximately 15,000 grilles out there using these pins, we have never received a report of a broken pin, not one. I should also mention that I have seen the aluminum pins "pit" over time when a customer's residence is near the shore. Living near the shore myself, there is nothing more annoying than pitted aluminum.

That being said, I know at least one of our competitors actually uses the fact that they use "metal" grille pins in their marketing. The metal pins really don't cost more than the plastic ones (pennies) and they certainly don't last longer either. You learn these seemingly small things when you have been doing this as long as I have.

While I do understand that using the metal pins might appear as a more durable, more expensive grille frame -- it isn't ;)

Note: Just tried to break one with a pliers... The plastic pin will rip out from the grille frame well before it will snap in half. It is really tough to break one of these.

Good news, thanks for the info. I've been leery of plastic pins after years of seeing ad's on audigon, 'Blah Speaker, good condition, one of the four pins on the grill cloth is busted, but the other three work fine'.

I certainly love the finish and construction quality on my 1's and am looking forward to updating them with the new tweeter and crossover!

PS: Am waiting patiently for news on the .5, too!

[davef]

Good news, thanks for the info. I've been leery of plastic pins after years of seeing ad's on audigon, 'Blah Speaker, good condition, one of the four pins on the grill cloth is busted, but the other three work fine'.

I certainly love the finish and construction quality on my 1's and am looking forward to updating them with the new tweeter and crossover!

That is well understood. I should say that there are many different styles of grille pins -- it is more the style than the material used when it comes to breaking. The short pin and rubber grommet style that is used in the Sierra's and 340's have proven to be extremely durable.

With the grille installed on a cabinet, I just took a hammer and hit down hard at the top of the grille frame in an attempt to shear off one of the pins... I broke the MDF grille frame itself :(





PS: Am waiting patiently for news on the .5, too!

This speaker is proving to be quite the challenge!

[Sherlock]

This speaker is proving to be quite the challenge!

Do you have working dimensions yet? You could go for the nostalgia crowd and make it exactly LS3/5a sized, 12" high by 7.5" wide by what - about 7" deep?

Or a little smaller would be nice, too.

[davef]

Do you have working dimensions yet? You could go for the nostalgia crowd and make it exactly LS3/5a sized, 12" high by 7.5" wide by what - about 7" deep?

Or a little smaller would be nice, too.

Trying to go smaller with it... The challenge is finding a suitable 4" woofer that can deliver the bass, power handling and efficiency that we are aiming for. We found one, but it is crazy expensive and if we were to use this, the cost of the Sierra .5 would be the same as the Sierra-1.

We are not giving up on this -- I love the challenge, but I don't want to delay the other products in the interim. I want a clean to do list before I dive deep into this one as it is going to take a lot of time and a lot of sampling...

[RicardoJoa]

How much longer are we expecting to wait for the new sierra and the tower?
Thanks

[RicardoJoa]

I just took a look at the prtotype towers and it seems like it uses the same woofer the sierra are using. Since the tower has a dedicated mid, the woofer not longer have to cover the mid spectrum. I was wondering how much lower can we expect from these 5.25 compare to the current sierra? I am sure those woofer are great, but wouldnt in a three way, be better with a larger woofer instead of having a dual woofer?

[curtis]

I just took a look at the prtotype towers and it seems like it uses the same woofer the sierra are using. Since the tower has a dedicated mid, the woofer not longer have to cover the mid spectrum. I was wondering how much lower can we expect from these 5.25 compare to the current sierra? I am sure those woofer are great, but wouldnt in a three way, be better with a larger woofer instead of having a dual woofer?
Not necessarily. You need to take into account the cabinet size and ports as well. A slimmer cabinet also lends itself better for imaging.

As mentioned, the tower plays noticeably deeper than the Sierra.

[merrymaid520]

I just took a look at the prtotype towers and it seems like it uses the same woofer the sierra are using. Since the tower has a dedicated mid, the woofer not longer have to cover the mid spectrum. I was wondering how much lower can we expect from these 5.25 compare to the current sierra? I am sure those woofer are great, but wouldnt in a three way, be better with a larger woofer instead of having a dual woofer?

From my understanding, dont quote me on this, but the tower should go about 10hz deeper than the sierra-1;)

In my opinion, the sierra-1 itself plays deeper than most similar sized bookshelfs, so having a larger enclosure plus two woofers that primarily focus in the lower bass regions is ideal!

[RicardoJoa]

I dont doubt the woofers, just that the size will have a limit factor on how low it can played without sacrafying sensitivity. Lets wait and see.

[curtis]

I dont doubt the woofers, just that the size will have a limit factor on how low it can played without sacrafying sensitivity. Lets wait and see.
I have heard the speaker, as have others. There are no worries from me.

[davef]

I just took a look at the prtotype towers and it seems like it uses the same woofer the sierra are using. Since the tower has a dedicated mid, the woofer not longer have to cover the mid spectrum. I was wondering how much lower can we expect from these 5.25 compare to the current sierra? I am sure those woofer are great, but wouldnt in a three way, be better with a larger woofer instead of having a dual woofer?


I dont doubt the woofers, just that the size will have a limit factor on how low it can played without sacrafying sensitivity. Lets wait and see.

Ricardo,

I think it is important to stress that the focus and performance goals of this speaker are midrange performance, imaging and detailed yet smooth highs.

Deep bass performance is secondary to the primary goals as there is no tower speaker that I know of that can reproduce deep bass as cleanly and accurately as even the 12" Rythmik subwoofer. If someone wants deeper bass, I would strongly recommend using these speakers with a very high quality subwoofer.

That being said, we would have to jump up to a single 8" woofer to get more radiating surface area than (2) of the woofers we are using. If we were to use an 8" woofer, we would have to double the cabinet volume to achieve noticeably deeper bass. That combined with a much larger front baffle width needed to accommodate the larger woofer would actually hurt our primary performance goals and dramatically increase cost due to the much larger cabinet.

In this application, the woofers will deliver a ton of mid-bass "slam", with both accuracy and detail while also extending up high enough to add support to the bottom octave of vocals without cone breakup. There is plenty of deep bass when needed and I recently measured 102dB of output at 2 meters back from only the dual woofers (no tweeter, no mid-woofer) using a Black Eyed Peas CD that has quite a bit of deep bass. Understand that this was from a single speaker, 4 feet away from the back wall and centered between the side-walls, in our large and very well treated listening room. This was clean, undistorted output and was not max output.

The tower does reach down lower than the Sierra-1 and can handle a ton more power. One of the cool design traits is that the dual woofers match the sensitivity of the mid-woofer so almost zero padding is required. Sensitivity is important for this product and we are coming in at an honest 89 to 90dB anechoic.

This speaker will perform quite well with the speakers it will be compared to and if used together with a Rythmik subwoofer, a consumer is going to have to spend a LOT of $$$ to match this full range performance in a pair of towers... If even possible…

Again, midrange performance along with imaging and highs are the primary goals of this speaker and in that regard, this speaker is a major upgrade from anything we have ever previously offered :)

[edmondwolfman]

Dave, you say using a rhythmic 12" works quite well with the towers to produce the lowest bass and together they sound great. I currently have an HSU ULS-15 subwoofer and don't really want to spend money on another sub at this point. Have you ever heard the ULS-15 or know anything about it? My question is how would the towers work in combination with the HSU ULS-15?

[curtis]

I have heard the ULS-15 more than a few times. While I don't think it sounds quite as good as a Rythmik, I think it will well with the tower.

[DougMac]

I have heard the ULS-15 more than a few times.
Curtis, have you heard SVS subs, particularly the PB12-NSD? How would you compare it to the Rythmik?

[edmondwolfman]

Curtis, have you heard SVS subs, particularly the PB12-NSD? How would you compare it to the Rythmik?

Be prepared...I thought SVS and HSU were known as relatively good sub manufacturers but Curtis just busted my chops telling me that a 12" rhythmic is better than my 15" 1000W HSU :(

Is that something I really needed to know :o

[curtis]

Curtis, have you heard SVS subs, particularly the PB12-NSD? How would you compare it to the Rythmik?
I have never heard the current iteration of the NSD, but have heard the PB13-Ultra, and used to have a Hsu VTF-3.3.

A 15" Rythmik will get you similar output to the NSD and 3.3, with the SVS and Hsu having more output around the port tuning, but trail off quickly. The Ultra will have a fair amount more across the board, but also dependent on port tuning.

Sound quality...IMO, is a no-contest, the Rythmik is noticeably cleaner/tighter/faster decay. That isn't to say the Ultra and 3.3 are not any good, because they are, the Rythmik just sounds better.

Interestingly, Brian/Rythmik will soon have a ported 15" sub. I would interested in how that sounds compared to the SVS/Hsu ported subs. He also has a dual 15" sealed sub as well.

[curtis]

Be prepared...I thought SVS and HSU were known as relatively good sub manufacturers but Curtis just busted my chops telling me that a 12" rhythmic is better than my 15" 1000W HSU :(

Is that something I really needed to know :o
:)
You have nothing to worry about with your ULS-15. It's a great sub.

The Ryhtmik sounds better, but if you were not able to do a relatively quick A/B comparison, you would not really know. Also, your 15" ULS will have more output than the 12" Rythmik.

[edmondwolfman]

:)
You have nothing to worry about with your ULS-15. It's a great sub.

The Ryhtmik sounds better, but if you were not able to do a relatively quick A/B comparison, you would not really know. Also, your 15" ULS will have more output than the 12" Rythmik.

Hey Curtis, my ULS-15 is a sealed enclosure...it has no ports.

[curtis]

Hey Curtis, my ULS-15 is a sealed enclosure...it has no ports.
Yeah...I know.

I had one at my house, along with my VTF-3.3, Rythmik 15", and JL A Fathom F112.

[edmondwolfman]

Yeah...I know.

I had one at my house, along with my VTF-3.3, Rythmik 15", and JL A Fathom F112.

Of those you listed which do you prefer? I've heard that the JL Fathoms are quite the sub but have never heard it or the Rythmic.

[merrymaid520]

Of those you listed which do you prefer? I've heard that the JL Fathoms are quite the sub but have never heard it or the Rythmic.

edmond,

I have owned a HSU 10" sub, a SVS PC Ultra 12" sub, and now the Rythmik D15SE. The rythmik by far exceeds all of them in overall SQ and even goes head to head in output compared to my previous SVS PC Ultra 12. I have attended a local GTG where everyone brought their subs and I brought my Rythmik and directly compared it to the JL F112 and the Rythmik was very very close in SQ(tough to discern) and lost out just a few db's in overall output. Not bad considering the cost difference.

At this same GTG, Brian (Rythmik) had shipped a prototype vented servo sub to compare also. we all felt it sounded very good but still not as good as the sealed one.

Hope this helps.
Brandon

[curtis]

Of those you listed which do you prefer? I've heard that the JL Fathoms are quite the sub but have never heard it or the Rythmic.
It really depends on the application.

The Fathom is a fantastic looking sub, and has phenomenal build quality. If I had a livingroom for music only, and a big budget, I would go that route. It does not play as deep as the Rythmik because it has a filter at 20hz.

Otherwise, I would go Rythmik. IMO, the sound quality just can't be beat at the same cost.

[mziegler]

Of those you listed which do you prefer? I've heard that the JL Fathoms are quite the sub but have never heard it or the Rythmic.

I was at the same listening session. While I think I hear important differences with speakers especially an A/B session, with subs I am not so good. Basically I thought the Rythmik, JL and Hsu were all great. Given the price difference, it became a no-brainer for me to go with the Rythmik. I definitely defer to Curtis when it comes to the finer differences between the subs.

[davef]

How much longer are we expecting to wait for the new sierra and the tower?
Thanks

Can't really say regarding the tower. Still lots to finish up. I will throw out a ballpark estimate for you at 5 months but please don't keep me to this ;)

The Sierra-1 NrT is 3-4 weeks out. Working now on getting a confirmed ship date for all the parts.

[qwknuf6]

Will there be a new center speaker with the new towers?

[MichaelG]

Yes... To be placed in the upgrade queue, please send an email to dinaL "at" ascendacoustics ( dot com) .... Trying to avoid the spam by not listing the exact email address.

Please provide Dina with your full name, phone number and the number of Sierra's you would like to upgrade.

Sorry for all the delays :o

Dave, I've read mostly about pairs of Sierra's. Is there an upgrade for our center speaker too?

Michael

[cynan]

Dave, I've read mostly about pairs of Sierra's. Is there an upgrade for our center speaker too?

Michael

Yes. When I inquired about the upgraded NrT tweeters, Dina told me that it was available for centers. (No reason why it shouldn't be as the only difference with the center is that the tweeter is rotated).

[davef]

Will there be a new center speaker with the new towers?

If the towers are well received, then most definitely :)

[davef]

Dave, I've read mostly about pairs of Sierra's. Is there an upgrade for our center speaker too?

Michael

NrT upgrades for centers are also available.

[Blake1214]

Dave,

You've mentioned the focus behind the towers will be geared towards the mids and highs instead of low end grunt. If sealed cabinets produces a more tighter sound in most cases, what is the reason behind the towers being ported? Are the towers being designed to be used with a sub in mind for 2 channel purposes?

Blake

[HiFiDon]

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the thread so please bear with me. As everyone knows, speaker design is a BIG compromise particularly at this level of expense if your trying to create something that's affordable and meets A LOT of people's expectations. (There are no free rides I've discovered, unfortunately.) I'm sure Dave is going crazy juggling all these driver and design choices he has to choose from in order to give US the "best bang for OUR buck".

To try an answer the previous email, intergration with or without a sub can be a real problem with a tower speaker as I see it. Some guys like NO subs and others prefer it. Some have home theaters others are strictly stereo music guys and want as "full range" of speaker as they can get. I'm sure Dave has had many a sleepless night trying to figure out the right equation for his particular niche in the speaker buying community which these days is enormous and highly competitive.

I'm a movie guy so I prefer a small monitor like the Sierra-1 to integrate with a good sub and take pressure off of the low frequency driver and allow it to become a mid range point source. I've found that the smaller the speaker the better the imaging, clarity etc.. Nothing is perfect unless you want to spend mucho dollars and even then, in many cases, it's only marginally better.

My hats off to dynamic speaker designers. It's a long hard road competing with panels and electrostatics but tradition, I think, has won out.

[RicardoJoa]

Dave,

You've mentioned the focus behind the towers will be geared towards the mids and highs instead of low end grunt. If sealed cabinets produces a more tighter sound in most cases, what is the reason behind the towers being ported? Are the towers being designed to be used with a sub in mind for 2 channel purposes?

Blake

Tt may sound tighter, but it will not play as deep. The sierra woofer plays tight enough to be ported. I dont think they are designed solely for 2ch music with a sub, other wise dave would have opted for a sealed cabinets as they tend to blend better with a sub.

[Mag_Neato]

Sooooo............any updates to the NrT upgrade timeframe, or the towers? I need to buy this sooner rather than later before I find something else to spend the money on!

[davef]

Sooooo............any updates to the NrT upgrade timeframe, or the towers? I need to buy this sooner rather than later before I find something else to spend the money on!

Sorry for being so out of touch these past 2 weeks :o So much going on over here with the new products, the start of school and this darn stomach flu which has ravaged my family this week :mad:

NrT tweeters have arrived safe and sound and as with everything SEAS, production models perfectly match the early prototypes and consistency from one unit to another is remarkable.

I should mention that we have managed to squeak out even better performance by changing the internal dampening material and slightly lowering the tweeter's resonance frequency. We are now going to fine tune, by hand, each and every NrT tweeter and the change in dampening material has also resulted in improved back-wave absorption, yielding even better transparency. This is the good news.

The bad news. Unfortunately, our parts supplier has had some delays in sourcing one of the capacitors that is required for the new crossover. This has resulted in delaying the official release. We are doing everything we can to speed this process up and as of today, we are expecting a mid November release. We are trying to improve this time frame and I will keep you updated.

We have gone well over the original # of upgrade requests (first 50 customers) and due to the delays; we will keep the special pre-order pricing open to everyone until the parts arrive. Our initial order quantity is relatively small but we are already preparing for the next PO so there will be plenty of parts on hand in the near future (as we get fully up to speed)

As we get closer to the formal release, we will send each of you a private link to order the upgrade parts online at the introductory pricing. This will save us a lot of time compared to taking the orders by phone (of course, phone orders will certainly be accepted). Since we have a LOT of upgrade requests and we want to ship immediately once the parts arrive, it will be a huge time saver for us to prepare all of the billing, invoicing and shipping documents prior to the arrival of the parts. We would like to begin this process no later than 2 weeks prior to the arrival of the parts so for those of you on our upgrade list, please expect an email from us with ordering information sometime around Oct 25th.

I am quite excited about the release of the NrT's... We have given many demos thus far and to my surprise, everyone has clearly noticed the differences and has preferred the NrT's. I should say that for those that have done A/B comparisons, we are at a remarkable 100% of listeners that plan on ordering the upgrade.

Thanks so much for your patience!!!!

[davef]

Sooooo............any updates to the NrT upgrade timeframe, or the towers? I need to buy this sooner rather than later before I find something else to spend the money on!

With regard to the towers:

These are coming along VERY nicely :) I have made a few changes since the original design, electing to go with a single higher flow, lower tune port tube compared to dual port tubes. This has resulted in much less air turbulence at very loud volumes (no port noise whatsoever!) I also plan to change from front ported to rear ported. This change, surprisingly, has resulted in improved performance as we are now getting tighter phase integration with the output of the port and output of the woofers.

The new port tube is also tuned to accept and properly utilize our Q-Plugs. Like with the Sierra-1, we will now be able to tune the bass response of the tower allowing for maximum placement options and improved subwoofer integration.

In addition, we have made some changes to the dual woofers that have yielded some noticeable benefits. One of these changes was to increase the number of voice coil windings which has resulted in slightly deeper bass combined with a more manageable impedance profile. While the aesthetics are the same, these are no longer the exact same woofers used in the Sierra-1.

I plan to have this design 100% finalized by this Sunday evening. As to a formal release date, I can only estimate at this point but please send me an email to discuss privately.

Anyone up for another listening session? These sound SO GOOD and I need an excuse to spend a full day enjoying them -- away from the family ;)

[DavidD]

With regard to the towers:


Anyone up for another listening session? These sound SO GOOD and I need an excuse to spend a full day enjoying them -- away from the family ;)

Twist my arm.

[curtis]

Twist my arm.
Mine too! :)

[mziegler]

I don't need to be asked more than once.

[Lucas]

With regard to the towers:


:D:D

Cant wait, wish i could hear that test session!
If you want to test them out up here, i would make my house available:p

[markie]

Well maybe that listening session could be heard. In addition to the requisite pics, perhaps some kind and compassionate soul at the listening session could record some *video* of the session so that the more distant and less fortunate among us could get a little taste and share in the joy. :D

[curtis]

Well maybe that listening session could be heard. In addition to the requisite pics, perhaps some kind and compassionate soul at the listening session could record some *video* of the session so that the more distant and less fortunate among us could get a little taste and share in the joy. :D
That can be arranged....

[markie]

That can be arranged....

:cool:
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-020.gif

[Mag_Neato]

Excellent news, Dave..........thanks!

I have finally, after over 1 1/2 years of storage, set up my Sierra-1's in a 2.1 setup with my Rythmik DS12 and a Marantz SR6003 AVR. The sound is just as sweet as I remember! If this NrT upgrade is as noticeable an improvement as has been said, I can't wait!

Ya got me wondering about those towers now.:(

[Sam1000]

With regard to the towers:
In addition, we have made some changes to the dual woofers that have yielded some noticeable benefits. One of these changes was to increase the number of voice coil windings which has resulted in slightly deeper bass combined with a more manageable impedance profile. While the aesthetics are the same, these are no longer the exact same woofers used in the Sierra-1.


So these woofers are part of the Tower only or they would be part of the NRT bookshelf as well?

[davef]

So these woofers are part of the Tower only or they would be part of the NRT bookshelf as well?

Only for the tower. They are optimized for the cabinet volume and port tuning of the tower. These are not a better woofer than what we are using in the bookshelf, just different. Since the tower has a phenomenal dedicated midrange in its own enclosure, we sacrificed a minor bit of efficiency and upper end performance to provide an improved low frequency response.

[jephdood]

Been living in a cave I guess.. Just found the pics for the tower proto's, and MAN are they beautiful!

I fear they'll ultimately be priced out of my range, but I'm crossing my fingers...

Congrats to Dave and Co. for developing what looks to be one hell of a floorstander. :cool:

[eRob]

Been living in a cave I guess.. Just found the pics for the tower proto's, and MAN are they beautiful!

I fear they'll ultimately be priced out of my range, but I'm crossing my fingers...

Congrats to Dave and Co. for developing what looks to be one hell of a floorstander. :cool:

Where are the pics at?

[jephdood]

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=326&d=1283139810
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=327&d=1283139810

[HiFiDon]

Wow. The towers are totally cool. I've never seen anything quite like them. Great design! Anxious to hear them!

[curtis]

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=326&d=1283139810
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=327&d=1283139810
Remember though, that is a prototype, and Dave has recently posted that he has made some changes.

[jephdood]

I believe I did point them out as prototypes.. :cool:

[curtis]

I believe I did point them out as prototypes.. :cool:
Sorry...I meant previous prototype. Changes have been made since I took that picture.

[jephdood]

Ah, is it even MORE wicked and bad-ass looking now?

[curtis]

Don't know..but Dave describes the changes here:
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=35362&postcount=206

[Lucas]

So dave, is the tower design finalized now like you had planned?
May we see some current pictures, for us unfortunate ones that do not get to participate in the listening sessions?:D

[Too_Blue]

Any chance of a satin finish on any of the new speakers or the Sierra-1?

[Geoh]

Any idea when we can preorder the Towers?
And what finishes will be available for the Towers"
(I'd love to see a kind of Satin Black finish, something a little less light reflective)

Geoh

[Too_Blue]

...something a little less light reflective

Exactly. And less attractive to dust as well.

Satin dark cherry or espresso, yum.

[jephdood]

Hell, as long as the cabinet is dead, and the driver and XO are top-notch, I'd be happy with the black vinyl wrap. Keep my cost down. It's what's inside that counts. ;)

[Geoh]

Hell, as long as the cabinet is dead, and the driver and XO are top-notch, I'd be happy with the black vinyl wrap. Keep my cost down. It's what's inside that counts. ;)

I don't think we have to worry about the cabinet being dead, or the driver and XO being top notch or for that matter the quality of sound that the Tower will produce.
I expect the Sierra Tower to be a class leader by a long shot!
In fact I'd be shocked if it wasn't......
Geoh

[Too_Blue]

This has me thinking...

Given a < $2000 budget (say, $1800-ish) and a preference for 2 channel music as a priority and a setup that doesn't offer a high-pass option (or any bass management), I'm starting to wonder if I should opt for the towers instead of going the Sierra-1/sub route (using Q-Plugs). I can always add a sub later (and a preamp with bass management that won't degrade the signal-$$$) if I feel the need. Right now I want the best, simplest, biggest room filling sound I can get from the gear I'll have (DAC with volume control and a super analog output stage > amps). I'm running small 2.5 way towers with 5.25" drivers (PSB Image T-45) now and like the way they fill the room. I'm a K.I.S.S. kind of guy, but want to upgrade to a speaker that has a better midrange, digs a little deeper on the bottom end, doesn't have a midbass hump, and is just overall a better sounding speaker.

Movie LFE means very little to me as I haven't watched a movie in a couple of months and when I do watch one, it's more likely to be a psychological thriller or comedy or such, not a big special effects flick. Music, on the other hand, plays for many hours each day, every day. And the lowest note in like 99% of music is what, 30hz for the bottom of a 5-string electric bass? (No pipe organs here, electronica either.)

I started considering this route after reading this entire thread. My only reservation is the gloss finish. The monitors are small, so it's not as much of an issue. But 44" towers... that's a lot of shiny! But I could live with it given excellent SQ, especially if it matches my woodwork (dark cherry is near exact).

Whatever speaker I end up with will be driven by Emotiva UPA-1 monoblocks (200w @ 8 ohm, 350 @ 4 ohm), so power isn't an issue.

Opinions?

P.S. I also read the entire Ascend Sierra thread on AVS over the last couple of days. All I can say is kudos to Dave F. My hat's off to you, sir. I admire the professionalism and patience you've shown when dealing with a variety of internet azzhats over the years. You're a class act. ;)

[Mike^S]

A satin black finish would be nice, or even just a matte black.

[merrymaid520]

A satin black finish would be nice.

Based on that, my sources tell me your wish will come true:)

[Geoh]

Based on that, my sources tell me your wish will come true:)

That would/will be awesome!
Again......... any idea when we can preorder the Sierra Towers?
I would also love to see a Sierra Tower Center....

Geoh

[merrymaid520]

That would/will be awesome!
Again......... any idea when we can preorder the Sierra Towers?
I would also love to see a Sierra Tower Center....

Geoh

I believe Dave can answer more questions privately in regard to specifics and a time frame. I pre-ordered my towers roughly over a year ago:D Just ask Dave;)

[davef]

Just a quick note... It seems that a small percentage of customers are unable to open the confidential shopping cart link contained in the email sent today. I have no idea why this happened but if you are having any difficulty in ordering, please send me a PM or email and I will forward you the link directly.

Also, some customers have inquired about a different ordering option for those who will be sending the speakers back to us for the upgrade. Please order the kits using the same link. We will be sending out a confirmation email within 24 hours thanking your for the order and asking which upgrade method you prefer. Any freight fees you pay now, in advance, will be credited towards the freight fees of shipping the speakers back to you once we have completed the upgrade.

We are swamped today with various questions and orders but we are getting through everything efficiently.

Also, our shopping cart software will automatically send out an email when we close the day confirming that your order has shipped. It hasn't, it is just an annoying little glitch in our system due to the way we have set this product up in the shopping cart.

Thanks so much for your patience and understanding!

Thanks so much!

[cynan]

I apologize in advance as this is sort of a silly question.

I currently use Sierra-1s L/C/R and am about to jump on the NrT upgrade. Do I only upgrade the L/R or all three? I only use the center channel for home theater and find the standard Sierra-1 performance to be already more than adequate for that task. I am only really interested in eking out every last ounce of performance for 2 channel music. Is it ridiculous to only upgrade the L/C in an L/C/R setup?

Anyone else with this setup that is upgrading to NrT?

[davef]

Coming up for some air today -- many questions in this thread need to be answered.



It looks like the new tweeter has an upward trending response that peaks around 4-5dB at ~24KHz. Is that going to sound "hot" in the treble compared to the original Sierra-1?

Very good point... The tipped up response on the 1 meter on-axis anechoic response is precisely what we were aiming for with the new tweeter. In order to accomplish this, many features of the stock tweeter had to be completely changed, including going to a considerably more powerful neodymium ring magnet, changing the voice coil wiring and former and turning the tweeter into a fully "under-hung" design.

This is a 29mm dome tweeter which is a rather large diameter for domes. This offers many benefits, including lower distortion levels at lower frequencies, higher power handling / higher efficiency / improved dynamics. The one drawback is that upper frequencies of the tweeter become more directional compared to a smaller dome tweeter such that they will roll-off sooner off-axis. Keep in mind that when we sit down to listen in our rooms, we here a combination of the direct-sound and indirect sound.

The rise in response you see on the 1 meter anechoic response is precisely tuned to compensate for the off-axis roll-off associated with all dome tweeters such that a flat in-room response is generated.

As with the original Sierra-1, our focus was not so much a ruler flat on-axis response, but more of an accurate in-room response.

Below are some in-room measurements of the final version of the NrT compared to the standard Sierra-1. Ignore the peak at 100Hz and the dip at 200Hz as these are caused by floor bounce (reflections). The measurements were taken with the speakers positioned in the middle of the room with about 3 feet clearance from the wall behind them. Our listening room is ~ 14.5 feet wide and 20 feet long. Another important item to point out, since a few non-Sierra owners have expressed their doubts, the in-room bass response in this large room with no corner loading is exactly -3dB at 36Hz, even better than our posted specifications and that is with the speakers located away from walls and corners.

Measurement below taken with a microphone distance at 60 inches. Sierra-1 NrT is yellow, standard is green. Notice how the NrT high-frequency response flattens out while the Sierra-1 starts to roll-off.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/images/ascenduploads/NRTIR_60.gif


Here is the response with the microphone distance at 80 inches. Notice that the further the distance away, the flatter the high-frequency response becomes.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/images/ascenduploads/NRTIR_80.gif

You are seeing significantly greater extension with the new tweeter, in fact, in-room this tweeter's response is -3dB at 28kHz which is remarkable for any dome tweeter. And I should mention, you are seeing real measurements here, taken with industry standard reference gear and a $3000 calibrated microphone... And I would be more than happy to duplicate these measurements for anyone in-person ;)

I should also mention, after today's NrT demo, we are now 14 for 14 listeners prefer the NrT over the standard. (yes, I am that obsessive that I actually track this data :o ) Today, Scott used the term "much more open sounding with the ability to hear multiple layers in the vocals, something I have never heard before with this CD".

I am hoping Scott will share his thoughts but all I can say at this point is that I am really excited to get these into your homes!

[bk_856er]

I apologize in advance as this is sort of a silly question.

I currently use Sierra-1s L/C/R and am about to jump on the NrT upgrade. Do I only upgrade the L/R or all three? I only use the center channel for home theater and find the standard Sierra-1 performance to be already more than adequate for that task. I am only really interested in eking out every last ounce of performance for 2 channel music. Is it ridiculous to only upgrade the L/C in an L/C/R setup?

Anyone else with this setup that is upgrading to NrT?

I'm also curious to hear some thoughts on this. After some consideration, I ultimately decided to upgrade all three of my Sierra-1s for maximum performance/matching in all applicaitons.

I also think I recall reading here that the new tweeter assembly is symmetrical, so it cannot be rotated like the original one for broader horizontal off-axis response.

Are any pics of the new parts available?

BK

[cynan]

I also think I recall reading here that the new tweeter assembly is symmetrical, so it cannot be rotated like the original one for broader horizontal off-axis response.


Can anyone confirm this?

[curtis]

Can anyone confirm this?
It is the same tweeter in the center and L/R, but rotated 90 degrees.

[bk_856er]

It is the same tweeter in the center and L/R, but rotated 90 degrees.

Yes, I stand corrected...pg2 of this thread has a comment about the original oval waveguide changing color from grey to black on the new part.

Still interested in pics and comments on C channel characteristics.

BK

[Blake1214]

I actually dreamed about some Sierra .5's last night which is odd as at this point, I'm more interested in the towers. Any confirmation on when the 2nd hearing session of the towers will take place (or has it already)?

[davef]

So dave, is the tower design finalized now like you had planned?
May we see some current pictures, for us unfortunate ones that do not get to participate in the listening sessions?:D

I would say at this point that we have received enough extremely positive feedback on the towers to say that the design is indeed finished. The fun part for me is over and now it is on to working out all of the manufacturing details.

I will try and post some pics of the final prototypes in the next day or so.

[davef]

Any chance of a satin finish on any of the new speakers or the Sierra-1?

We have had many requests for this so it is indeed a finish that is being considered.

[davef]

This has me thinking...

Given a < $2000 budget (say, $1800-ish) and a preference for 2 channel music as a priority and a setup that doesn't offer a high-pass option (or any bass management), I'm starting to wonder if I should opt for the towers instead of going the Sierra-1/sub route (using Q-Plugs). I can always add a sub later (and a preamp with bass management that won't degrade the signal-$$$) if I feel the need. Right now I want the best, simplest, biggest room filling sound I can get from the gear I'll have (DAC with volume control and a super analog output stage > amps). I'm running small 2.5 way towers with 5.25" drivers (PSB Image T-45) now and like the way they fill the room. I'm a K.I.S.S. kind of guy, but want to upgrade to a speaker that has a better midrange, digs a little deeper on the bottom end, doesn't have a midbass hump, and is just overall a better sounding speaker.

Movie LFE means very little to me as I haven't watched a movie in a couple of months and when I do watch one, it's more likely to be a psychological thriller or comedy or such, not a big special effects flick. Music, on the other hand, plays for many hours each day, every day. And the lowest note in like 99% of music is what, 30hz for the bottom of a 5-string electric bass? (No pipe organs here, electronica either.)

I started considering this route after reading this entire thread. My only reservation is the gloss finish. The monitors are small, so it's not as much of an issue. But 44" towers... that's a lot of shiny! But I could live with it given excellent SQ, especially if it matches my woodwork (dark cherry is near exact).

Whatever speaker I end up with will be driven by Emotiva UPA-1 monoblocks (200w @ 8 ohm, 350 @ 4 ohm), so power isn't an issue.

Opinions?



Too,

We had 3 private tower auditions this past week. All 3 of these experienced audio enthusiasts commented on how deep and well controlled the bass response was. They were surprised as these are not large towers, only slightly taller than a Sierra-1 sitting on a TP-24 stand. I think many people are going to be surprised at the performance these towers offer -- I know that I am.

That being said, if music is high priority, I would opt for a pair of the towers over Sierra-1 + sub. The mids of the towers, as well as imaging, surpass that of the Sierra-1 and even the Sierra-1 NrT. That is important to consider and you can always add a sub later on...



P.S. I also read the entire Ascend Sierra thread on AVS over the last couple of days. All I can say is kudos to Dave F. My hat's off to you, sir. I admire the professionalism and patience you've shown when dealing with a variety of internet azzhats over the years. You're a class act. ;)

Thank you -- that really means a lot to me. There are a lot of ID audio companies these days and one obvious factor that often gets left out amongst the more popular ID audio companies (aside from 2 other ID audio companies), the owner of the company is also the main engineer behind every product. There IS a difference between having an employee or contracting out the design of the product compared to having the owner design it. Guess who the other two companies are? Hsu and Rythmik, both of which we have worked with closely and whose products we fully endorse and either sell now or have sold at a previous time.

[davef]

Dave,

You've mentioned the focus behind the towers will be geared towards the mids and highs instead of low end grunt. If sealed cabinets produces a more tighter sound in most cases, what is the reason behind the towers being ported? Are the towers being designed to be used with a sub in mind for 2 channel purposes?

Blake

Hi Blake,

The towers are being designed to be used with or without a subwoofer and this depends entirely on the listener's preferances. The bass response of the tower is quite impressive on its own and I suspect most will use the speaker without a subwoofer for music while most will use the speaker with a subwoofer for home theater. The towers will be able to use the same Q-Plugs as the Sierra-1 so it will be possible to tune the bass response to suit one's room and tastes.


If sealed cabinets produces a more tighter sound in most cases, what is the reason behind the towers being ported?

I don't necessarily agree with this statement. In a subwoofer, assuming both the ported and sealed cabinets have been properly designed, a sealed unit will often provide a tighter sound. However, we are not designing a subwoofer here and we are not trying to reach down to deliver flat response and high SPL's at 20Hz and lower. The woofers in the towers are small with low mass cones; they are able to move back and forth very quickly with little overhang. They also use oversized low-inductance motors which enhance their transient response making them ideal candidates for a properly tuned ported enclosure. I can honestly say that the bass response and quality of the bass being reproduced by the towers is very impressive; tight, punchy, exceptionally clean and surprisingly deep.

Also, keep in mind that the midrange driver is in its own critically damped sealed enclosure.

Hope this makes sense!

[davef]

Any idea when we can preorder the Towers?
And what finishes will be available for the Towers"
(I'd love to see a kind of Satin Black finish, something a little less light reflective)

Geoh

We are still working out the details of exactly what finishes will be offered. One finish that is a definite, of course, is high-gloss black. Note, this finish is slightly less reflective than our standard piano black, which is a true mirror finish.

With regard to pre-ordering, we would be happy to accept a pre-order from you and anyone else. Of course, we would not charge you anything until the speakers are ready but taking some pre-orders now would actually be beneficial to us in determining first production run quantities and finishes etc.

If you or anyone is interested, please send me a PM.

Thanks!

[Too_Blue]

I'd like to see a satin dark cherry. Espresso too. Basically the same finishes, just satin.

A hand rubbed oil finish would be nice, but I've read that bamboo doesn't take oil all that well. I suppose a satin clear-coat of some kind would be possible though. Wouldn't that be less costly to produce, since it would require no hand polishing?