Big ass speakers

[buddhadas]

Where have they all gone? I love my Sierra's, but sometimes I like to "wake up" the neighborhood as it were, and I seem to be missing the 70's style speaker. I have plenty of power from my amp, I just think I need a bigger woofer for these times. I may be crazy but I think these smaller cabinets are much less efficient than their older counterparts. If I remember correctly weren't Klipsch, and Altec, and Tannoy's much easier to drive?

The hunt continues......

Jim

[curtis]

Get a good sub.

Geez...you must play them loud. If I leave the front door open, I can hear my system pretty down the street if I crank it up.

[ediblestarfish]

They are still around, just not as popular in the consumer space because of aesthetics. It's harder for large equipment pieces, especially with a flat boxy look to fit into home decor. I certainly don't miss the old style stuff, except for their efficiency. I like my speakers to disappear, both sonically, and visually if possible.

Those old companies that you listed all use horns, which I'm really not fond of either--even when properly designed.

I did have a look at Zu and Salk before, they have some high quality, large, efficient speakers that are available direct to sale. Thought about them for a while, never really could get serious about them though.

[GirgleMirt]

Zoo speakers? Yeah their frequency response (http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/zucable_druid/) does look mighty wild! :\


I have plenty of power from my amp, I just think I need a bigger woofer for these times
Funny, but it's the exact opposite. If you had a puny amp with 5 watts, then you would need high efficiency speakers to play them loudly. But if you got a beefy amp, then the 87/90/93 dB efficiency doesn't make much difference, because what the speakers lack in efficiency, the amp make up in raw power. And that's the thing now, high power amps are relatively cheap, so you don't really need high efficiency speakers because you have plenty of juice to power even the most inefficient speakers.

Also, what takes up the most juice from the amp, and what's most demanding for the speakers are the low frequencies, the bass. So like curtis said, by using a sub and using the sub/receiver's crossover to cut the bass to the Sierras, they can play even more loudly. I use them with a 240 watt amp about, no sub, they play plenty loud in my medium/small room :)

Some do praise though high efficiency speakers for high SPL, man, I feel like an old man not liking my music so loud haha

No but seriously, I heard the Wilson Sashas (http://www.wilsonaudio.com/product_html/sasha_specs.html) not too long ago, on very dynamic pieces... Daaam. Crazy dynamics. If I thought there was a chance in hell I could hook up my sub (now with 340SE system) to the Sierras, and let it rip like they did the Wilsons without getting the police on my ass, I would try it to see how it would compare. Hahaha. But for me, just the Sierras on my own is crazy enough! :eek:

Oh, and I mentioned the Wilsons because they're not crazy efficient, 91dB, which might even be 90 or 89dB, but hook up a solid amp, and you'll see you don't need high efficiency speakers for clean and very high SPL...

Oh, and those old speakers? Most didn't sound too good... hehe

[buddhadas]

Curtis- Yes I do listen sometimes a touch loud.:D You are right, I need a good sub, but the finances and lack of space make that a toughie. So, I guess when I want it louder, I will just run the cd through my HT setup, and play it in 2 channel with the sub. I have the 340 se's for ht duty, and an outboard McIntosh amp, along with a Denon receiver.

GirgleMirt- I guess I just miss big ass speakers, although I believe my Sierra's sound better. I beg to differ on the Tannoys, some of the older ones are amazing (and expensive) speakers. Interestingly, I am not a big fan of horns either.

thanks for the input guys!

[buddhadas]

ediblestarfish- Thanks for the input. I completely missed your post. Talk about getting older, sheesh!!

[ediblestarfish]

If you want loud, cheap and bad, you can always pick up several of those gigantic commercial self-powered and contained speakers that use a 12" or 15" woofer and a horn. ;)

You'll get major SPLs for cheap, although I'm not sure it's really enjoyable.

Zu Druid is also discontinued, replaced by the Essence. Still, I'm not fond of high efficiency speakers that trade a flat response for that efficiency. Pricey too.

[Mike^S]

Check out JTR speakers or Mark Seaton Catalysts. They are supposed to have crazy dynamics.

[GirgleMirt]

JTR Triple8:

Frequency +/-3db 80hz-20khz
Sensitivity* 98db
Useable Output ** 129db

Really requires a sub. 1200$, is that per speaker or per pair? I'm guessing speaker... Anyhow, here, you do get higher sensitivity but you do lose on bass. Seatons Catalists are like 1500$ per speaker.

As always, a matter of compromise... Price and bass being one (or two?) of them here! Never any free lunches... :(

[Galwin]

You can still find some big ole' 70's era.Advents, KLH's and JBL's on ebay or Audiogon. Large ADS speakers from the 80's sound grreat and can be found at discount prices. They are not as accurate but do pack a visceral punch that is pretty exciting.

[davef]

Where have they all gone? I love my Sierra's, but sometimes I like to "wake up" the neighborhood as it were, and I seem to be missing the 70's style speaker. I have plenty of power from my amp, I just think I need a bigger woofer for these times. I may be crazy but I think these smaller cabinets are much less efficient than their older counterparts. If I remember correctly weren't Klipsch, and Altec, and Tannoy's much easier to drive?

Hi Jim,

I hear you and know exactly what you mean. The very first loudspeaker I ever re-built were a pair of huge Fisher's with those massive 15" paper cone woofers and several ports on the front. In stock form, these speakers were insanely loud and I would often "wake the neighbors" even when using them on a 50 watt integrated. Those speakers moved a lot of air and they were loads of "fun". This was back in the mid to late 80's...

However, in stock form I was never able to critically listen to the speakers and I was never able to get deep into the music -- there was simply no emotional attachment or involvement. The speakers had to be played loud to enjoy them. They were so inaccurate and literally missing all the detail around and behind the music. Speakers like these were a joy to listen to loudly because it was more about sensory overload and excitement than actual content. Much like a loudspeaker, when our own ears are highly pressurized due to high volume levels, we lose the ability to hear subtle nuances and detail – the pressure waves take over. However, it is that critical missing content that allows us to emotionally connect to the music, to have one of those memorable listening experiences that lasts with us forever and what turns us from causal listeners to critical listeners.

I often miss the days of peeling the paint off my walls (usually with beer in hand). "Fun" loudspeakers definitely have their place too, but I must admit that as I have gotten older, my desire for really loud music / loud home theater has lessened and been replaced by imaging, accuracy, balance and coherence -- all of which are important factors that contribute to emotional involvement.

I would agree with Curtis, on their own, the Sierra-1 are capable of playing very loudly -- however, by adding a subwoofer and thus easing the burden on the speaker's woofer (assuming a proper crossover) -- they will then offer the best of both worlds -- loud and fun without sacrificing all of the "audiophile" characteristics :)

If something like a Rythmik is not in the budget, go with an Epik or Hsu that does fit into your budget... And as always, I am happy to discuss with you :)

[buddhadas]

Very well put Dave!

I guess I will save to get a sub.

[Tushar]

You can still find some big ole' 70's era.Advents, KLH's and JBL's on ebay or Audiogon. Large ADS speakers from the 80's sound grreat and can be found at discount prices. They are not as accurate but do pack a visceral punch that is pretty exciting.

I suspect something like 340SE+ a decent subwoofer would pants the majority of vintage "big ass" speakers in SPLs and extension measured in your room or your neighbors house. Some of the vintage speakers Galwin mentions (Advent for example) are not very efficient nor go particularly low in frequency so I'm not sure what that "visceral punch" that old speakers provided really was. I wonder if rolled off highs, overemphasized bass, distortion, and/or lack of detail change perception of how loud and room filling sound is or let you turn the speaker up more before your ears hurt.

[Galwin]

Tushar,

I think you are right on about the 340SE and a sub offering superior performance in every category, including SPL's. I think affection for those big old boxes has more to do with memories of how we experienced them at the time (back in college), and for many of us, it was our first foray into hi-fi. If we listened with our ears of today, I am sure that they would not sound so great. Dave's post on 4/26 says it all with great eloquence - "what's around and behind the music" gives you those goose bump experiences, plus it was interesting to learn that our ears as well as loudspeakers lose capacity for nuance and detail at high SPL's.

[DougMac]

I suspect something like 340SE+ a decent subwoofer would pants the majority of vintage "big ass" speakers in SPLs and extension measured in your room or your neighbors house.

True that. If I'm so inclined, which isn't often, I can drive you out the HT room plus any adjacent room with my 340SE's and my SVS PB12-NSD.

I use the Derek Trucks Band's version of "Anyday" from the Eric Clapton "Crossroads" DVD as a demo cut. It's a song that just begs to be played loud. I've found that the system and the recording are so clean that "loud" is actually more SPL's than "loud" was with the typical old big speakers. In other words, all the distortion inherent with old big speakers cranked made them sound louder than the actual SPL they were reaching.

I'm much happier with my current Ascends, even when cranked, than any of the vintage big speakers I've heard.