Survey - How visible are the defects in B Stock?

[Holey Grail]

Dina suggested I ask the forum, so here goes ...

I am considering getting an Ascend 340/170 mainly-HT setup. I would not mind saving a bit of cash by getting B stock, but since they will go in the living room, I don't want something too obviously scratched or chipped.

I saw some forum posting that said they couldn't even tell what was wrong with their B stock speakers - a good thing! I also know that when I had to rate my M&K subwoofer to sell it on Audiogon years ago, I discovered minor flaws I never noticed the entire time I had it (they were only visible with my camera's flash or outdoors in bright sunlight).

So, for people who bought B stock, how visible are the defects?

Thanks - Michael

[curtis]

from all the b stock Ascends I have seen, nothing was noticeable unless thoroughly examined, and even then, sometimes the blemishes could not be found.

[chas]

I own some b-stock 340SE's (3). Any flaws are so slight I don't even remember them without reinspecting the speakers. Certainly nothing visible in ordinary light - even at close distance. I'm sure b-stock varies from speaker to speaker but I would not hesitate to order b-stock again.

[GirgleMirt]

So, for people who bought B stock, how visible are the defects?

Exactly how you described :)

I have a first batch of piano black Sierra-1 with micro scratches, and couldn't be happier with the B-Stock, yeah sure I guess with sunlight you could spot the micro scratches if you stuck your nose on the speaker (though that would leave a mark!), or with a flash it might show, though I just failed miserably to capture it with my camera, but it did show that they would benefit from some dusting... They're in a dedicated HT/music room so I'd buy the B-Stock again in a heartbeat. Even when looking at them 1 feet away, looking for defects, I still wonder how they knocked >10% off the price for these...

I guess B-Stock could vary, but you still get the 30 day guarantee in the worst scenario, I wouldn't hesitate purchasing B-Sock, I'm sure they'd pass as A-stock for many other companies... If not, they'd probably be rated C-Stock:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=3141


B-stock
These units are factory new but with minor cosmetic flaws that were noticed during final quality control inspections (mild scratches or nicks). These units fully qualify for our standard package price discountng, 30-day return policy and our discounted ground shipping rates.

Complete Listing

C-stock
These units have more noticeable cosmetic damage; a mildly damaged corner, deeper scratches etc. These units have been reconditioned with new parts where necessary while the cabinets themselves may or may not be brand new. The below prices do not include shipping, actual shipping charges will be charged (as opposed to our heavily discounted shipping rates).

Please note: Because of the extremely low cost pricing on C-stock, returns will be subject to a 15% re-stock fee. If I did not think any of these were in good enough shape to sell, I simply would not offer them.

None available at this time.
Some companies just have B-Stock, here you have B and C, so you can be sure they don't try to pass speakers with "more noticeable cosmetic damage" as B.

Anyway, my advice, sorry A-Stock owners, get the B-Stock while it's hot! B-Stock Ascend = even better bang for the buck!

[merrymaid520]

I concur with Girglemirt. The B stock sierras in PB have noticeable light scratches in the finish.....which is most visible with certain lighting. I have 3 pair all B stock and some have high spots(small puddles) in the finish. For most such as myself, its tough to see up close or with dimmer lighting. If you are a perfectionist, get A stock. I probably will next time around as well.

On a related note, I have also bought 340, 170's, and 200 SE's all B stock and these speakers looked perfect to me, no noticeable flaws. The flat black texture on these models is much more forgiving.

Hope this helps.

Brandon

[P Seastrand]

I have the 340/170 combination that you are considering in b-stock. As everyone else has said, I couldn't find anything that I would have considered a fault or blemish. I've seen a-stock from other companies that have more blemishes on them.

[wish]

I have LCR b-stock Sierra and on two of the three couldn't find a flaw. The center and one of the mains look perfect. :) The other speaker does have two scratch marks that are pretty obvious on inspection. :(

[Holey Grail]

Hey - Thanks for all your quick replies!

I ordered some B stock this morning.

[indulger]

I still feel guilty. I ordered B-Stock LCR sierra's & 2 pr HTM 200SE's. I swear I got A-Stock. But they're not gett'em back:D

[davef]

B-stock is an interesting situation for us.

I would say that for that vast majority of customers who order B-stock, nearly all are very pleased with the purchase. However, there is always that 1-2% of folks who notice the defect and because they have read that other B-stock owners were unable to find a defect, they are actually disappointed :confused:

Sal has the final say as to what is labeled as B-stock just prior to packaging. He is actually more critical than I and it is often the case where I don't even notice the reason for the unit being called B-stock. Ultimately, we are probably too critical but it is a system that has worked for us for many years now and I am often told to avoid fixing what isn't broken :p

It is important to understand that we are unlike nearly all of our competitors in that we assemble, test, clean, inspect and package every loudspeaker we sell. Most everyone else, well, they receive a fully assembled product from an overseas source and once received, it is warehoused, either in their own storage facility or at a fulfillment center (which is the norm these days). They do not get the chance to inspect the unit, nor would they even if they could. For these manufacturers, cosmetic issues are not that uncommon and the associated costs involved are factored into the retail pricing of the product.

In my experience, which dates back a long time now with manufacturing, you can expect about a 10-20% minor defect rate from overseas sources. This is not a reject rate (which, at least for quality OEM's, should be much lower), but something I like to call the minor defect rate which represents minor scratches or similar. Not cause to reject the goods, but not “perfect” either. Some customers who receive these products notice the defects and complain, others just live with it or never notice.

Our products are different, our A-stock goods have that 10-20% of minor defect products sorted out and these are what we sell as B-stock. Most other manufacturers include them as their A-stock goods, at least until a customer complains and replacements are sent and then the cosmetically challenged products are then re-sold as B-stock.

Other than the occasional damage caused by shipping, it is extremely rare that a customer of ours notice any cosmetic defects with our A-stock goods. In fact, I can not even recall the last time we replaced a pair of speakers due to cosmetic issues other than freight damage. I know that in the last 12 months we made a mistake and shipped the wrong finish to a customer. However, for someone to receive A-stock goods with a cosmetic defect, or even a unit that does not perform to spec, it is close to being an impossibility --- and I would not have it any other way, even with the attraction of tremendous cost savings to us :cool:

[merrymaid520]

I concur with Girglemirt. The B stock sierras in PB have noticeable light scratches in the finish.....which is most visible with certain lighting. I have 3 pair all B stock and some have high spots(small puddles) in the finish. For most such as myself, its tough to see up close or with dimmer lighting. If you are a perfectionist, get A stock. I probably will next time around as well.

On a related note, I have also bought 340, 170's, and 200 SE's all B stock and these speakers looked perfect to me, no noticeable flaws. The flat black texture on these models is much more forgiving.

Hope this helps.

Brandon

One thing I probably should have mentioned is that most of my sierras (B stock) were early production models which if I recall had some issues in terms of the finish and most were grouped into B stock for this reason. I believe Dave can explain how that happened early on, something to do with the packaging maybe? Anyway, I imagine the recent B stock offerings are much more closer to A stock than some of us who got the early batches.

Does this sound correct Dave?

[davef]

One thing I probably should have mentioned is that most of my sierras (B stock) were early production models which if I recall had some issues in terms of the finish and most were grouped into B stock for this reason. I believe Dave can explain how that happened early on, something to do with the packaging maybe? Anyway, I imagine the recent B stock offerings are much more closer to A stock than some of us who got the early batches.

Does this sound correct Dave?

Ughh -- bad memory :(

Our first shipment of Piano Black Sierra-1 cabinets had not been properly buffed out by the vendor and the result was many visible hairline scratches. These were subsequently sold as B-stock and for those that insisted on A-stock, we hired an expert piano repairman to refinish each cabinet, at considerable expense. *That* cabinet vendor was let go, thus completely wasting nearly 2 years of hard work getting them up to speed with bamboo. :mad:

The finish quality of the Sierra-1 now is in an entirely different league, no comparison. What we receive now is furniture-grade to the max.

[merrymaid520]

Ughh -- bad memory :(

Our first shipment of Piano Black Sierra-1 cabinets had not been properly buffed out by the vendor and the result was many visible hairline scratches. These were subsequently sold as B-stock and for those that insisted on A-stock, we hired an expert piano repairman to refinish each cabinet, at considerable expense. *That* cabinet vendor was let go, thus completely wasting nearly 2 years of hard work getting them up to speed with bamboo. :mad:

The finish quality of the Sierra-1 now is in an entirely different league, no comparison. What we receive now is furniture-grade to the max.

Now its coming back to me:) Glad that ordeal is well behind you.

[Gov]

Ascends B-Stock is the "shiznits"! :D

[DaveHo]

I bought a B-stock 340SE center. The only things I noticed is the one grill peg insert was counter sunk a little too much, & there is a minor scuff in the finish that, when dusty, seems to be more visible for some reason. When clean it's not visible, & the grill peg insert doesn't affect the grill fitment whatsoever.

-Dave

[newbee]

I got B-stocks for my CBT 340 SE LCR,CBM-170 SE rears! They were beautiful!:D

[bdfin]

I have 5 sierras in the natural finish. The four mains were VERY difficult to see any flaws......the center has a corner that feels a little rough and I could see and feel it easily........ even though the packing was perfect, but with it laying horizontal on shelf you can't see it so no huge deal. The other four though are great. Their sound makes up for it.

[davef]

Now its coming back to me:) Glad that ordeal is well behind you.

LOL -- so am I ;)