Ready For a Change

[jrhooper1963]

I know this is a topic that has been brought up many times on this forum, but I will bring it up again. Does Ascend Acoustics have any plans of producing a floorstanding speaker at any time in the near future? Possibly one with less emphasis on fit and finish than the Sierra One. Don't get me wrong, I love my Sierra's. But the thought of a 36" high floorstander with slightly larger woofers than the Sierra, and a dedicated midrange driver really appeals to me. Also a sensitivity in the 90 decibel range would also be great. Are there any other materials available other than bamboo, that would provide both good acoustics and be very easy on the eyes. I would certainly think so. And last but not least- it would be nice if this speaker did not exceed $1200 in cost per pair. For those that wanted bamboo, maybe make those an extra $500 -$700 per pair as special orders.

[Mike^S]

Hmm, I'm fairly certain that you will lose some sound quality with any $1,200 tower compared to the Sierras.

If you're looking for higher output or deeper bass and you don't have a good quality subwoofer then a tower may be the way to go.

I just spent some time listening to some Sonus Faber Liuto towers. Brand new model, just released, retails for about $6,000/pair. The midrange was very nice, the highs were a little muted. But where I was really disappointed in was the bass. It just wasn't tight and solid, nor very deep in comparison to my Sierras/JL Fathom. And these Liutos are a 3-way tower with a 9 inch woofer.

I've heard some very good things about the Salk HT2 TL, but even they are only a 2-way speaker with two 6.5 inch woofers. And sell for around $4,000/pair.

[Tushar]

I wonder what your definition of a floorstander is.

I have Sierra-1's. I frankly don't hear any improvement in sound to turn on my subwoofer on even after Audyssey or manual adjustment so I have a hard time believing that a 3-way design intrinsically adds something to the sound-- I actually prefer sub off for music. The Sierra-1 also play louder at low frequency than my last 2-way near floor standers which had 10" long throw woofers so I don't think there's is a severe compromise on output at low frequency.

Some of the stands for Sierra-1 make it look like a floorstander, so if your interest is visual, that can help.

If your intent is to go lower in bass, I'd seriously look at whether there is some way to place something of the quality of the Rythmik 12" woofer+amp in an appropriately sized, sleak sealed enclosure that would fit underneath black Sierra1's. If your budget is limited, look at DIY.

I don't want to seem dismissive, but I think the market for floorstanders is rather small unless you go to low end where at least some of my friends will say "damn that's big, it must be great" and the high end where the margins are high enough that ideas (some good, some bad, some justifying higher cost) factor in without the same cost/benefit scrutiny of lower margin markets.

From the quality of the Sierra-1's and HTM-200SE's I own I think if there was a sonic reason to go 3-way or floorstanders at a given price point, there would already be an Ascend offering to meet that requirement. I think those who are looking for output are then diluted among the "subwoofer" crowd and the floorstander crowd.

[Blake1214]

I personally understand what Jim is saying. I love the sound of my Sierras, but sometimes, I wish the soundstage can be bigger. I just want MORE of the Sierra sound. Another member stacked 4 pairs of Sierras to achieve this. Unfortunately, that adds up to roughly $4000 for a "stacked" pair which is out of reach for most. I would definately be interested to see a floorstanding model and a center channel with 2 or more woofers. But all this may not be consistent with Ascend's business model.

[curtis]

Blake...are your Sierras toed in at all?

jrhooper, the first question would be what do you want more of, or what do you find lacking? Is it more output? If so, have you tried feeding them more power?

[sbeveraggi]

The addition of a Rythmik F12SE made a huge difference in my setup.
It blends perfectly with my Sierras, they instantly became hi-end floorstanders.
Not only it provides a lot of authority with low frequencies, the Sierras sound more open and clear now with bass duties off their backs.

[Galwin]

I wonder if Dave could comment about whether there are any inherent advantages to a well executed 3-way design versus a 2-way. Does applying these designs in a monitor versus a tower significantly effect that equation?

[Quinn]

I wonder if Dave could comment about whether there are any inherent advantages to a well executed 3-way design versus a 2-way. Does applying these designs in a monitor versus a tower significantly effect that equation?


There really is very little, that is why the 3 way has fallen out of favor. It adds a 2nd crossover, which can cause more issues, and the need for another compartment in the cabinet. You also get into the best place to put speakers in your room may not be the best place for bass response in your room.

I'd like to see a floorstanding cabinet with a 7" driver. Unfortunately, how heavy bamboo is would make shipping costs for such a speaker quite expensive. Ascend would likely have to use a different shipper than UPS for a floor stander as that size and weigh isn't what UPS does. Take a look at shipping costs on floorstanders from other ID companies.

[curtis]

Even though bamboo has more tensile strength than MDF, it is a bit lighter.....so that it is a plus....but it is MUCH more expensive.

Shipping costs of floorstanders really bites into the value. Costs more to ship the cabinets to Ascend, and then costs more to ship to the customer.....and in the warehouse, they obviously take up more room which translates into higher cost of keeping inventory.

[jvillas]

Having read similar threads to this one, and not being a Sierra owner myself. It seems that most Sierra owners are very satisfied with the sound quality of the speakers. Putting aside a subwoofer,and please correct me if I am wrong some Sierra owners simply want there speakers to play louder, and to be more room filling. So follows the request for floorstanders, towers, MTMs etc.

The question I must ask is the Sierras max sound pressure level (SPL) sufficient for most users or should it be kicked up a notch?

[Blake1214]

[QUOTE=curtis;32133]Blake...are your Sierras toed in at all?

QUOTE]

Yes they are. I played around with various toe in angles and currently, it provides the best sound to my ears. If I toe them in any more than they are, they sound way too direct. If toed out, it sounds thin. They play loud enough for my listening taste, but I wouldn't mind to be enveloped in its sound just a bit more.

[Tushar]

Larger distance from wall and between the speakers were the two things that had the most effect on sound for me. I'm sure you've tried that, though.

[Blake1214]

Yeah...I played around with that as well. The back is currently 19 inches away from the wall and just a tad over 7 feet apart. Listening distance is almost 9 feet. I tested it with a couple of other speakers at the same location and they did indeed have a "bigger" sound than the Sierras. But I enjoyed the sound of the Sierras more.

Regardless, I'm very happy with my purchase, but if the Sierra ever gets a bigger brother, I'd be all over it.

[curtis]

Yes they are. I played around with various toe in angles and currently, it provides the best sound to my ears. If I toe them in any more than they are, they sound way too direct. If toed out, it sounds thin. They play loud enough for my listening taste, but I wouldn't mind to be enveloped in its sound just a bit more.
I would try reducing the toe-in and moving them closer to the rear wall.

[ccotenj]

I would try reducing the toe-in and moving them closer to the rear wall.

at the risk of hijacking someone else's thread... :)

toe-in is something i've never been able to nail down with the sierra's... either i've missed it, or dave hasn't supplied much guidance here (i'm betting i missed it)...

currently (well, kinda currently, i'm in between sierra's right now until the new ones come), front speakers are 8 feet apart, 8 feet from the listening position, toed in so that the angle meets slightly behind the listening position... due to the shape of my room, 1 is 5 feet off the rear wall and the other is a bit over 6 1/2 feet... both are approximately 3 feet off the side walls...

previously, my mains were about 3 feet off the back wall... this "new" configuration seemingly made the soundstage much "deeper" (could be placebo, since an a/b test is out of the question)...

what i'm wondering is if anyone has any commentary they'd like to share on toe-in... also, any commentary on speaker positioning is more than welcome... here are some pictures of what it looks like (http://gallery.me.com/ccotenj1#100174)... the rack is no longer in the front corner... and yes, i know, the positioning of the surrounds needs work... :)

[debo]

I like the turtle. I play with toe in and width and depth a half inch at a time and have been amazed at the change in sound at times and I believe it all comes down to your room. Just keep experimenting.

[curtis]

Right...it is all a matter of preference.

[Blake1214]

Thx Curtis. Due to floorplan, I have limited configuration options. However, just to test things out, I moved the front speakers closer to the wall and reduced toe in. (They're now only 6 inches away). I do hear more bass but not sure if it made a noticeable difference in soundstage to make it conclusive. The bass however doesn't seem as tight. Not sure if it's from it bouncing off the walls?? I'll play around with it some more over the weekend.

[Bill Mac]

I found recently that toe in can also equipment specific. I had my Sierras toed in a good bit and found this best after many subtle changes. I have my system in a fairly small room which is 13'D x 17'W with the room opening to a staircase on one side. The Sierras are 6' apart about 12" off the front wall and I sit about 8' away dead center.

I recently added a TADAC tube pre/DAC with HT Bypass to my system. Once I sat down to listen to some music I found I had to reduce toe in due to the soundstage being to centered. I toed the Sierras out a bit and found that the soundstage extended outside my speakers much more with toe in reduced.

So as has been discussed here it is best to take the time to sit down and try multiple positions for your speakers to get the best SQ.

Bill

[ccotenj]

I like the turtle. I play with toe in and width and depth a half inch at a time and have been amazed at the change in sound at times and I believe it all comes down to your room. Just keep experimenting.

thanks... the turtle was supposed to end up somewhere else, but he liked it there, so i let him stay... :)

yea, i think when the "newies" get here, i'll do a bunch more experimenting... i hadn't had them in the pictured configuration for very long before i sold them...

a good project for a rainy weekend...