Announcement: A Sierra-1 add-on enhancement!

[davef]

I am most pleased to announce a new add-on product for our highly regarded Sierra-1 loudspeakers.

Introducing Q-Plugs... (sorry for the lousy pics :o )

**Please use this link to order: Sierra-1 Q-Plug Kit (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=BASK&Store_Code=AD&Action=ADPR&Product_Code=9QPKSR1&Attributes=Yes&Quantity=1)


http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/images/ascenduploads/qp_all.jpg

In short, 2 specially designed and custom tooled port plugs made of an open cell acoustic foam. Q-plugs allow “tuning” of the Sierra-1 bass response to allow more flexibility in optimizing in-room performance while dramatically increasing placement options.

Q-Plug A
Simply plugging the port of a properly designed ported loudspeaker is generally a bad idea. A woofer that is designed for a ported enclosure will act differently when installed in a sealed enclosure. The compliance of the woofer is not designed to see the internal pressures created by a sealed enclosure and the speaker then becomes overdamped, subjecting the woofer to greater excursions (often exceeding its mechanical limits) and pre-mature bass roll-off. You can also end up with a higher than normal impedance peak at system resonance.

However, the advantages to plugging a port can outweigh the disadvantages if the speaker is going to be positioned so that the port tube is close to a wall or the speaker is in an enclosure. The challenge we faced was how to offer the flexibility of plugging the port without crippling our woofer which is fully optimized for a ported design.

The solution was to transform the Sierra-1 into an aperiodic enclosure, an enclosure that allows a specific amount of pressure to be released through the cabinet. This allows precise control of woofer damping resulting in improved bass response compared to simply sealing the port while also lowering the high impedance peak.


http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/images/ascenduploads/IMPQPA.gif
notice the reduction in the impedance peak compared to a "sealed" Sierra-1

Q-Plug A consists of a cylindrical tube with a 5mm thick “end cap” made of acoustic foam that allows a specific amount of air to pass through.

It is recommended to use Q-Plug A when the Sierra-1 will be wall mounted or within several inches of the wall. Use of this port plug can also improve subwoofer integration as the in-room response of the speaker changes to -3dB at 60Hz with a 12dB/octave roll-off as compared to a stock Sierra-1 which is approximately -3dB at 40Hz in room with a sharp 24dB/octave roll-off.


http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/images/ascenduploads/OWSVSQPA.gif
notice the reduction in the bass bump caused by close location to a wall

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/images/ascenduploads/STKVSQPA.gif
in-room response comparing stock Sierra-1 with Q-Plug A

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/images/ascenduploads/SLDVSQPA.gif
in-room response comparing a "sealed" Sierra-1 with Q-Plug A


Q-Plug B
This plug was designed to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of the Sierra-1, especially when used in smaller rooms or where room modes cause over emphasized bass. It consists of the same cylindrical tube as Q-Plug A but without the end-cap.

Q-Plug B creates a mass loaded damped port, lowering the port tune frequency by 10Hz while also damping port tube resonances and dramatically reducing port noise. When compared to a stock Sierra-1, we get 3dB less output in the 50-70Hz range and 3dB more output in the 30Hz range. The speaker will have less “punch” but a deeper bass response. The woofer will contribute more to the bass output which can result in a cleaner and even more articulate response. One interesting phenomenon that I noticed was that imaging was improved and the soundstage was deepened. I attributed this not to the deeper bass response but to the damping of spurious out-of-phase port noises that can cause subtle comb filtering.



http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/images/ascenduploads/STKVSQPB.gif
in-room response comparing stock Sierra-1 with Q-Plug B

A quote from one of our Beta-Testers:

“Stereo 2.0
No Plug: Very full sound, punchier, hits chest, a tad boomy at loud volume levels. Room and entertainment center resonate.
Plug B: Very full sound, deeper and cleaner, hits chest but not as much as with no plug. Only entertainment center resonates.
My preferences varied a bit depending on the song being played…In the end I chose leaving Plug B in, with and without sub.”


In Summary:

Our new Q-plugs greatly expand the versatility and placement options of the Sierra-1. We chose to avoid using additional crossover components to offer different bass alignment options. Adding additional crossover components causes an increase in distortion and phase anomalies and is against our “less is more” design philosophy for the Sierra-1. Instead, we came up with a unique solution that changes bass alignments without adding any additional negative effects.

Q-Plug A: Recommended when the Sierra-1 will be positioned so that the rear port tube is close to a wall, wall mounted, or when the speaker is placed in an enclosure. Also recommended to improve integration with a subwoofer and it is the ideal choice if you want to use a subwoofer but do not have bass management for the speakers (speakers full range with a subwoofer)

Q-Plug B: Recommended in smaller rooms where room modes might cause over emphasized bass. These plugs will provide a deeper more articulate bass response with less punch and possibly less boom, and can also enhance imaging and soundstaging.

These plugs will be sold as add-on kits:

Pair Q-Plug kit (4 plugs, 2 of each) = $31.00, includes domestic shipping

Center Q-Plug kit (2 plugs, 1 of each) = $19.00, includes domestic shipping

Pair + Center kit (6 plugs in total, 3 of each) = $43.00, includes domestic shipping

We will be setup for online purchasing within the next 24 hours. Shipping will begin immediately :)

Enjoy!

[Gov]

WOW very cool, congrats on this new product. I have two questions.

1. Any idea if these would work on the 170/340's? Or even if you considered making an add-on for them?
2. Would there still be a benefit run "small" and crossed at 60 or 80hz?

Thanks!

[gtoboss]

Would it be better if your going to run the plugs in the center channel to go ahead and run the plugs in the mains as well. Or if your going to run the plugs in the surrounds will it be better to run the plugs in the mains and center also?

[buddhadas]

Finally a new product from you I don't "need". :D
Thanks Dave.

Jim

[DaveHo]

Very cool. Much more interesting solution than I thought was coming. Not that I'm surprised!

Do the plugs have any effect on power handling or distortion levels in the affected frequency range?

-Dave

[millerwill]

[/Quote]In Summary:

Our new Q-plugs greatly expand the versatility and placement options of the Sierra-1. We chose to avoid using additional crossover components to offer different bass alignment options. Adding additional crossover components causes an increase in distortion and phase anomalies and is against our “less is more” design philosophy for the Sierra-1. Instead, we came up with a unique solution that changes bass alignments without adding any additional negative effects.

Q-Plug A: Recommended when the Sierra-1 will be positioned so that the rear port tube is close to a wall, wall mounted, or when the speaker is placed in an enclosure. Also recommended to improve integration with a subwoofer and it is the ideal choice if you want to use a subwoofer but do not have bass management for the speakers (speakers full range with a subwoofer)

Q-Plug B: Recommended in smaller rooms where room modes might cause over emphasized bass. These plugs will provide a deeper more articulate bass response with less punch and possibly less boom, and can also enhance imaging and soundstaging.
[/QUOTE]

Does the better integration of a sub with Plug A suggest that this might be a good choice for HT purposes (as opposed to primarily music)?

[Mag_Neato]

We will be setup for online purchasing within the next 24 hours. Shipping will begin immediately :)

Enjoy!

;);):cool:

[merrymaid520]

Dave F.,
In my setup as pictured in the recent ascend setup pic thread, would my sierras benefit from any of these enhancements being roughly 12-14" from the wall running them set as small crossed over at 60hz? As you know I have the rythmik sub now too. I just thought I would ask before i researched it any further.

Thanks!
Brandon

[millerwill]

Q-Plug B: Recommended in smaller rooms where room modes might cause over emphasized bass. These plugs will provide a deeper more articulate bass response with less punch and possibly less boom, and can also enhance imaging and soundstaging.

Any definition of 'smaller rooms'? Is 2000 cu ft the boundary between 'small' and 'medium', or is a less figure a better rule of thumb?

[millerwill]

In Summary:

Q-Plug A: Recommended when the Sierra-1 will be positioned so that the rear port tube is close to a wall, wall mounted, or when the speaker is placed in an enclosure. Also recommended to improve integration with a subwoofer and it is the ideal choice if you want to use a subwoofer but do not have bass management for the speakers (speakers full range with a subwoofer)

Q-Plug B: Recommended in smaller rooms where room modes might cause over emphasized bass. These plugs will provide a deeper more articulate bass response with less punch and possibly less boom, and can also enhance imaging and soundstaging.



So, if one is using Sierra's L/C/R for HT, crossed at 80 Hz with a sub, is PlugA are good idea, so that the roll off is more gradual?

[davef]

Would it be better if your going to run the plugs in the center channel to go ahead and run the plugs in the mains as well. Or if your going to run the plugs in the surrounds will it be better to run the plugs in the mains and center also?

It is fully dependent on the location of the speaker. If you want to use a Q-Plug in the left front, you should also use it in the right front. However, it is perfectly acceptable (and can be advisable depending on placement) to use a Q-Plug in the center and leave the left/rights as stock. If your rears are close to a wall, use them.

We purchased a large amount of these in order to bring the costs way down so that we can offer them to you for a very reasonable price. With that in mind, my plan was such that for a few extra dollars, you can experiment with them and determine what configuration sounds best to you. They are an inexpensive tweak (especially for audio ;) ) that can make significant improvements in your in-room bass response.

In my home, I enjoy the Sierra-1 with Q-Plug B when I run them full range (no subwoofer).

[davef]

Any idea if these would work on the 170/340's? Or even if you considered making an add-on for them?

These won't fit into the CBM-170 port and are not properly "tuned" for the CMT-340 SE.




2. Would there still be a benefit run "small" and crossed at 60 or 80hz?

Thanks!

Yes -- absolutely! Crossover setting in your receiver is independent of the Q-Plugs and should be first priority.

[davef]

Please use this link to order: Sierra-1 Q-Plug Kit (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=BASK&Store_Code=AD&Action=ADPR&Product_Code=9QPKSR1&Attributes=Yes&Quantity=1)

Be sure to choose the number of speakers you want plugs for.

[Gov]

not properly "tuned" for the CMT-340 SE.


That makes sense :( If the 340's would benefit from a plug designed for them for people like me that have them mounted fairly close to a rear wall, I would LOVE for you to consider designing some :D

Thanks!

[kylem]

Thanks Dave, I've just ordered one for my center that's in a cabinet. Seems like a minor investment if it gives any benefit at all so I'll give it a shot. :)

[Droht]

That makes sense :( If the 340's would benefit from a plug designed for them for people like me that have them mounted fairly close to a rear wall, I would LOVE for you to consider designing some :D

Thanks!

+1. I'd be curious to know more about how customized these are. You hear about people using socks to plug ports. It doesn't get much less custom than that.

[davef]

Very cool. Much more interesting solution than I thought was coming. Not that I'm surprised!

Do the plugs have any effect on power handling or distortion levels in the affected frequency range?

Using Q-plug B, power handling levels would be slightly increased (distortion would be reduced) from 34Hz - 70Hz compared to a stock Sierra-1.

Using Q-Plug A, power handling would be increased and distortion reduced below 44Hz compared to a stock Sierra-1.

[davef]

Does the better integration of a sub with Plug A suggest that this might be a good choice for HT purposes (as opposed to primarily music)?

There are just too many variables that affect this for me to provide a definitive answer to your question. Depending on various room acoustics and speaker placement, when used with a sub -- Q-Plug A (Aperiodic) can be beneficial for both music and movies. Much also depends on how well your subwoofer handles the 60Hz range and the low-pass filter slope. Ideally, you want the high-pass slope of you speaker to precisely match the low-pass slope of your subwoofer. Since both of the Q-Plugs change the natural bass roll-off the speakers, either can be beneficial. In your situation - Q-Plug A can offer a dramatic change while plug B would be more subtle.

Hope this helps!

[Mr.Lawrence]

Pair + Center kit (6 plugs in total, 3 of each) = $43.00, includes domestic shipping

You mean "2 of each", right?

I don't know if these will improve the sound of my system, but I think that I'll give them a try.

[Mag_Neato]

You mean "2 of each", right?

I don't know if these will improve the sound of my system, but I think that I'll give them a try.

No, he means "3 of each". 2 mains + 1 center, 2 plugs per speaker(1 "A" & 1 "B" plug each).

Gives you all the flexibility of mix-n-matching!

[Mr.Lawrence]

No, he means "3 of each". 2 mains + 1 center, 2 plugs per speaker(1 "A" & 1 "B" plug each).

Gives you all the flexibility of mix-n-matching!

Oops!!! :o I got it now.

[Sam1000]

I Posted the following on AVS.

It's been a few days since Ascend started shipping the port plugs for Sierra.. Did anyone have a chance to compare the performance at home with and without the port plugs. I know that the performance will vary with different rooms. I will go for them anyways, but it's always nice to hear the feedback from fellow Sierra owners...

I have the speakers 18" from the back wall and I keep experimenting between playing them full range and cross them over at 60htz to Mirage S12. (planning a subwoofer upgrade as well.)

On an unrelated note, I turned off the up sampling on my HK247 and the sound improved a lot. It was counter intuitive

[Pilk]

Ok. I got my Q-Plugs yesterday and have spent the last few hours doing some A/B testing with a variety of music. I have my Sierra's in cabinets that I have deadened as well as possible with isonodes, quietmat, subdudes, etc. The cabinet is pretty inert at this point. I have a pair of ULW10's on isonodes with the Sierra's on top of the ULW's. The Sierra's are separated from the ULW's by Subdude isolation pads. I've been enjoying the Sierra's for about 6-8 months but they really came alive when I added the ULW's (I call them the TWINS ;) )about 2 months ago. My best settings have been flat across the board with my Yamaha RX-V2700, with my Oppo 980H running the CD/DVD's. The subs are set in phase and at about 9-10 o'clock gain setting. Crossover set at 80, speakers to small. I've loved this setup, full rich, detailed and there's a quality to the combo I can't describe. It will make you stop and sit and listen.

Fast forward to the QPlugs. I've always known that the cabinet placement was a weakness but it is a necessary evil. The one thing that stuck in my mind at times was that certain vocals faded back from the sound stage, like the singer was behind my moniter. If I pulled the volume up a bit it helped but then certain vocals got a little congested or strained. I guess you could say there was some muddy areas with certain types of music. I'm being picky with this assessment...I was very happy. Now, I inserted the A-Plugs per the instructions and spent several hours listening to some of my reference material. I was hoping to clean up the areas I mentioned and bring the vocals forward. I was not dissappointed one bit. In fact, this may be the best $40 I have ever spent.

The Q plugs allowed the Sierra's do what they do best, play detailed, rich music with an incredible soundstage that extends well past the speakers. I did get the feeling that I lost a certain 'quality' in the midbass, but couldn't put my finger on it. I had always kept the sub gain down to about 25-30%, otherwise they would overpower the system and get a bit boomy. With the Sierra's free to sing I began to tweak the subs a bit and found I can set the gain to about 40%, which brought that missing quality back and then some. It feels like each speaker is doing what it was intended to do and letting the other drivers do their job. The vocals are out front and clean as can be. The piano details are fantastic. The Sierra's sound like they finally have that 'room' to breath with the plugs inserted.

I suspect it would be best to free the Sierra's up all the way and put them on stands but it aint happenin' in this house, maybe the next one :D. As it is with the QPlugs, I'm a very satisfied customer. This guy Dave, he knows about what he speaks. Thanks Dave.

BTW, just for kicks I tried the B Plugs...it didn't seem make a much difference from the non-plugged sound overall but it certainly didn't help my situation. I keep them around in case the Sierra's ever get a new home.

[Pilk]

I Posted the following on AVS.

It's been a few days since Ascend started shipping the port plugs for Sierra.. Did anyone have a chance to compare the performance at home with and without the port plugs. I know that the performance will vary with different rooms. I will go for them anyways, but it's always nice to hear the feedback from fellow Sierra owners...

I have the speakers 18" from the back wall and I keep experimenting between playing them full range and cross them over at 60htz to Mirage S12. (planning a subwoofer upgrade as well.)

On an unrelated note, I turned off the up sampling on my HK247 and the sound improved a lot. It was counter intuitive

18" sounds like plenty of room for the Sierra's. I definately think a quality sub is a big help to the Sierra's. No 5" driver is going to do what a 10, 12, 15" driver can do. Having said that, I wouldn't waste my time on a cheap rumble butt sub (not saying your Mirage is one...don't know anything about it), but a sub capable of musical midbass and some authority down low will extend the reach and take over where the Sierra's leave off. I'm thrilled with my dual 10" subs (see my post above). I think the Ascend/Rythmik subs would be a great addition. I cross my subs at 80. I can't tell a difference between 80,90,100 but when I drop down to 60 I loose midbass and its pretty obvious. Hope that helps...its getting late and my brain is getting soft. :o

[Sam1000]

18" sounds like plenty of room for the Sierra's. I definately think a quality sub is a big help to the Sierra's. No 5" driver is going to do what a 10, 12, 15" driver can do. Having said that, I wouldn't waste my time on a cheap rumble butt sub (not saying your Mirage is one...don't know anything about it), but a sub capable of musical midbass and some authority down low will extend the reach and take over where the Sierra's leave off. I'm thrilled with my dual 10" subs (see my post above). I think the Ascend/Rythmik subs would be a great addition. I cross my subs at 80. I can't tell a difference between 80,90,100 but when I drop down to 60 I loose midbass and its pretty obvious. Hope that helps...its getting late and my brain is getting soft. :o

Thanks for your input. I did order the Q plugs and will get them tomorrow. I did have a discussion with Dave about rhythmik subs and I think I'll order 15" Rhythmik in next few days before the holiday sale ends...

I agree with you assessment on the crossover of 60 vs 80..

[curtis]

I agree with you assessment on the crossover of 60 vs 80..
Interesting. With the Rythmik in my system, I don't notice much difference at all between 60hz and 80hz crossover points.

[Pilk]

Interesting. With the Rythmik in my system, I don't notice much difference at all between 60hz and 80hz crossover points.

While I was playing with the crossover point on my Yamaha, I could really cross the subs at 80,90,100 without much difference. When I went 60 on down it really shut down the midbass and tone quality of the system. It became very thin. I don't know much about how it all works...I just plug in the numbers until I think it sounds good.

I do think the plugs were a plus for my situation. It takes all the guilt out of having the Sierra's in the cabinet. :o

Sometimes I wish the Rythmik subs had been an option earlier...I might have ponied up for a pair. As it is the ULW10's only cost me $280 each and they perform like champions. They are not limitless but when played within their design limits they sing and really extend the Sierra's. Having the dual subs located with the L/R Sierra's makes everything so seemless that it feels like I've got giant floorstanding speakers. :D

[Sam1000]

I got my port plus couple of days ago. I have not done any critical listening yet but it did seem to have extended the sound stage with b-plugs. I did not notice much difference with a-plugs with 10 minutes of non-critical listening..

[kylem]

I got mine for my center (thats in a BDI cabinet) a few days ago. After listening for a day or so I decided to check my levels again and noticed that I needed to bump up the level on my center just a hair. Did anyone else notice this or is that unusual?

[Pilk]

I've done a little bit more tuning with my Yamaha. I've experimented with the crossover some more, tried a little eq work. In the end, I settled on 80 for a crossover (60 was too thin, 100 got boomy on certain music). Set the eq flat and my ULW's to about 40% gain. That seems to be a well balanced setup that handles everything I put in and is capable of delivering on low volume listening, but still stays behaved when I push the system. I was thinking about adding a larger sub for HT but now that I've got the Sierra's plugged I can run things louder without stressing the vocals and that gets me more LFE out of my subs. I could probably use more LFE below 30 but this isn't a HT...its a living room with a music/ht setup as stealthy as possible. Enjoying it daily.

[Pilk]

I got mine for my center (thats in a BDI cabinet) a few days ago. After listening for a day or so I decided to check my levels again and noticed that I needed to bump up the level on my center just a hair. Did anyone else notice this or is that unusual?

My center was further away from the listening area by about 1.5'. I didn't think much of it until I was having to run the center 2db hot (this was before the A Plugs). I had all the L/R/C all set to the same distance. I decided to adjust the speaker distance on the center to add the extra 1.5' and it made a noticeable difference. You might check the distance settings on the speakers first. What they did for me was to balance my system out and bring out the details that were lost with the in cabinet placement. Try tweaking things and you might be surprised what you will get out of them.

[kylem]

Yeah, I have played around with the distance settings quite a bit in the past. When I originally used my HK's EzSet/EQ it appeared to be a little off and I settled on using actual measurements with a tape measure. Once I bumped up the level of the center everything really sounds perfect now. :D

[davef]

I got mine for my center (thats in a BDI cabinet) a few days ago. After listening for a day or so I decided to check my levels again and noticed that I needed to bump up the level on my center just a hair. Did anyone else notice this or is that unusual?

Hi Kyle,

This is to be expected actually and basically means that plugs are working correctly for you. Since you have the center in a cabinet, it is more than likely that you have a bump in the response, typically somewhere in the 50-80Hz range. When you check levels with an SPL meter, it basically measures the average SPL over the entire frequency range being reproduced. By using the plugs and reducing the bump in the response, the average spl will measure lower.

Speaker sensitivity hasn't actually changed since sensitivity is typically calculated by using the output level of the midrange frequencies, of which the Q-Plugs will have no effect.

The benefit here is that the bump in the speaker's response has been reduced, the speaker will now measure flatter and setting center speaker levels will now be more accurate. Vocals should be more upfront, more prominent.

[kylem]

Thanks Dave, your explanation confirms what my ears were telling me about the vocals. They are definitely more pronounced now. :)

[omegacentrix]

Just wanted to add some more feedback to the thread - I got the plugs in about two weeks ago and have been putting them through the paces. I've got a pair of Sierras in a pretty small room and the Q-Plug A is definitely the winner for me. It clears up some mid-bass congestion and the sound is much more focused. Kudos to Dave F. for another great product!

Regards,
Dave

[jk121764]

I'm running mine with the A-plugs. If I had one slight :) crit of the Sierras was that the mids seemed slightly recessed and this could be because of the very strong mid-bass. The A plugs seemed to bring out the mids a little more.

But as with anything it all depends on the room, front end electronics and listening preferences. The plugs are definitely a nice option.

[fraseronly]

Kudos to Dave F. for another great product!

Regards,
Dave

I have my plugs being shipped to me, I will add some feedback when I have my HT build out finished, one q springs to mind though, I have some 170SE which I will be using for my rear's they will be wall mounted using an omnimount from Ascend, as they are rear ported too and will be close to the wall, anyone have thoughts on the requirement for a setup like this for a q plug too ?

[curtis]

I have my plugs being shipped to me, I will add some feedback when I have my HT build out finished, one q springs to mind though, I have some 170SE which I will be using for my rear's they will be wall mounted using an omnimount from Ascend, as they are rear ported too and will be close to the wall, anyone have thoughts on the requirement for a setup like this for a q plug too ?
The Q plugs are designed/engineered for the Sierras.

Crossed at 80hz, and a few inches from the wall, the 170SE should be fine.

[millerwill]

Hi Kyle,

This is to be expected actually and basically means that plugs are working correctly for you. Since you have the center in a cabinet, it is more than likely that you have a bump in the response, typically somewhere in the 50-80Hz range. When you check levels with an SPL meter, it basically measures the average SPL over the entire frequency range being reproduced. By using the plugs and reducing the bump in the response, the average spl will measure lower.

Speaker sensitivity hasn't actually changed since sensitivity is typically calculated by using the output level of the midrange frequencies, of which the Q-Plugs will have no effect.

The benefit here is that the bump in the speaker's response has been reduced, the speaker will now measure flatter and setting center speaker levels will now be more accurate. Vocals should be more upfront, more prominent.

I have Sierra-1's L/C/R, on stands ~ 2 ft from a back wall (though the C sits on an equipment bench 2ft from the back wall), which are crossed with a sub (SVS PB10) at 70 to 80 Hz. I do have the plugs, but it's not clear to me if they really have much to offer since the sub takes the lower freqs. (Room is small/medium: 17' long, 14' wide, 8.3' high.)

Any suggestions for A, B, or none?

[curtis]

I have Sierra-1's L/C/R, on stands ~ 2 ft from a back wall (though the C sits on an equipment bench 2ft from the back wall), which are crossed with a sub (SVS PB10) at 70 to 80 Hz. I do have the plugs, but it's not clear to me if they really have much to offer since the sub takes the lower freqs. (Room is small/medium: 17' long, 14' wide, 8.3' high.)

Any suggestions for A, B, or none?
First, try the mains as large without a sub with some good music material, then with the "B" plugs, then with "A" plugs, and then at various crossover points to a sub with and without the plugs.

[davef]

I have Sierra-1's L/C/R, on stands ~ 2 ft from a back wall (though the C sits on an equipment bench 2ft from the back wall), which are crossed with a sub (SVS PB10) at 70 to 80 Hz. I do have the plugs, but it's not clear to me if they really have much to offer since the sub takes the lower freqs. (Room is small/medium: 17' long, 14' wide, 8.3' high.)

Any suggestions for A, B, or none?

To really make the best use of the plugs, in-room measurements would be recommended so that we can actually "see" the various changes the different plugs make.

If measurements aren't available or if you don't want to get into that, Curtis offered the best recommendations :)

Have fun!

[millerwill]

To really make the best use of the plugs, in-room measurements would be recommended so that we can actually "see" the various changes the different plugs make.

If measurements aren't available or if you don't want to get into that, Curtis offered the best recommendations :)

Have fun!

Thanks, Dave. I have tentatively settled on the B plugs. Since the Sierra's are not enclosed or too near walls, I don't think the A's are called for. And your comments about the B's 'integrating well with a sub' convinced me to go that route. I use the Audyssey room eq system (MultEQ XT, of an Onkyo 805 AVR), and this seems to give a very nice result overall with the B plugs.

Problem is, my ear is probably not well enough 'educated' to discern one of these options from the other. So if not, I guess 'why worry'!

[davef]

Thanks, Dave. I have tentatively settled on the B plugs. Since the Sierra's are not enclosed or too near walls, I don't think the A's are called for. And your comments about the B's 'integrating well with a sub' convinced me to go that route. I use the Audyssey room eq system (MultEQ XT, of an Onkyo 805 AVR), and this seems to give a very nice result overall with the B plugs.

Based on the info you have provided regarding your setup, I would agree -- "B" plugs would be the best choice.

Enjoy!

[millerwill]

Based on the info you have provided regarding your setup, I would agree -- "B" plugs would be the best choice.

Enjoy!

Thanks for the feedback, Dave. Yes indeed, I am enjoying!

[davef]

Thanks for the feedback, Dave. Yes indeed, I am enjoying!

You are most welcome :)

[nickmo]

I am getting ready to wall mount my LCR Sierras. I run them with a Rythmik D15SE crossed over at 80Hz at my receiver. My question is, should I/will I need to use Q-plugs to preserve the Sierra's frequency response?

Thanks,
Nick

[curtis]

I am getting ready to wall mount my LCR Sierras. I run them with a Rythmik D15SE crossed over at 80Hz at my receiver. My question is, should I/will I need to use Q-plugs to preserve the Sierra's frequency response?

The port will not come into play very much when crossed at 80hz. That said, my center channel on has about 7" of space behind it, and crossed at 80hz. The use of Q plug "A" did make a noticeable improvement.

[MichaelG]

I apologize if this sounds foolish..:o. but does it matter which way I put in the A Plugs? Does the capped end go in first, on the outside, or does it even matter?

[ride525]

I apologize if this sounds foolish..:o. but does it matter which way I put in the A Plugs? Does the capped end go in first, on the outside, or does it even matter?

The instructions that came with my plugs said the capped end of the A plugs go in first.

Jeff

[ride525]

The port will not come into play very much when crossed at 80hz. That said, my center channel on has about 7" of space behind it, and crossed at 80hz. The use of Q plug "A" did make a noticeable improvement.

Ok Curtis, I'm a bit confused. You said the "port will not come into play very much when crossed at 80hz. But your center channel is crossed at 80hz, and "the use of Q plug "A" did make a noticeable improvement".

[curtis]

Ok Curtis, I'm a bit confused. You said the "port will not come into play very much when crossed at 80hz. But your center channel is crossed at 80hz, and "the use of Q plug "A" did make a noticeable improvement".
Even though the port does not do much at that point, plug "A" did make an improvement.

[GaryB]

I don't wish to put words in curtis's or davef's mouths, but Dave did mention that he noticed an improvement in imaging and soundstage when using Q-Plug B which he attributed to "the damping of spurious out-of-phase port noises that can cause subtle comb filtering".

I don't see any reason why similar effects shouldn't be expected from Q-Plug A, and might be responsible for the improvement that Curtis noticed when using it in his center-channel Sierra-1.

[jahjd2000]

Hi, first post here. I am seriously considering replacing my current def tech CLR set up with Sierra's. Had a question about rear clearance.

Would 5" of clearance behind the Sierra's be enough to run them w/o plugs? I read that 12" was ideal. If plugs are recommended, which one(s) should I consider? I plan to run them with a sub but will experiment with 2.0 for music.

I didn't peruse each post in this thread but I did a cursory forum search for the answer to my question to no avail. Appologies if I missed it an am asking again.

[ride525]

jahjd2000,

The plugs come as a kit, with A plug and B plug. Looks like $12 for each speaker kit.

You might call Ascend and ask Dave about your need for plugs, and whether they might help.

[waynes]

can these q- plugs be used with the 340's & 170's

[curtis]

can these q- plugs be used with the 340's & 170's
Nope. But call Ascend and they might have a solution for you.

[davef]

Was wondering what the new sierra nrt' will cost?

Hi Waynes,

We have moved your posts into a new thread where it will get more exposure. This thread is dedicated to our Q-Plugs...

Here is the link to the new thread: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=4657

[Mag_Neato]

Just looking for initial recommendations here.

I just ordered a set of Q-plugs. My Sierra's are on 30" stands approx. 18"-19" out from the wall, maybe 8'-9' apart. They are in my basement, which is finished with drywall/wainscotting, shag carpet and a 7' drop ceiling. The floor is concrete. It is an open space with only 1 close sidewall which has a patio sliding door. I have a 12" Rythmik sub in a custom built cabinet which is about 15"x15"x22"(?)long. I have it sitting on a box full of books maybe a foot off the floor at the most. The back of the sub(Along the 22" dimension) is about 4" from the wall. It sits just to the inside of the left speaker. Crossover set at 80Hz. No surround speakers, only 2.1 for music.

Ok, now to the question. I assume I will only need to try Q-plug "B" based on all of that information? As the B plug is said to reduce some punch yet extend the low end response of the Sierra, should I change the crossover setting to 60Hz? Any other recommendations to set up settings are welcome. I am just trying to squeeze all of the performance I can out of the system.

Thanks!

[Dark Ranger]

Hi Ed,

I experimented with both A and B plugs, and now run exclusively with type B.

My older Denon only supports a global crossover for all speakers, so I run a jerry-rigged "HT Bypass" setup. For normal 2-channel listening, I run the Sierras full-range. For HT or loud 2-channel material, I switch inputs and run the system (Sierra L/R and non-Ascend surrounds) with a 80Hz global crossover to keep the surrounds happy.

Overall, the B plugs work best for my listening room. When the Sierras are run full range, I noticed that type B reduces the mid-bass "boom" and improves sound quality in the lower octaves. Type B also integrates fairly well with my Rythmik F15 when the Sierras are crossed over at 80Hz, although the type A plugs do a slightly better job of seamless integration. Ultimately, I decided that since I run the Sierras full-range about 60% of the time, I wanted the performance benefits of the B plug.

My suggestion: try the B plug with 80Hz first, then try 60Hz. However, definitely give the A plugs a go with your current 80Hz crossover setting.

[Mag_Neato]

Thanks for the advice, Jacob!

I should have them by Wednesday. I will definitely experiment with both A & B to get an idea of what each does to the sound. I have owned the Sierra-1's since they first came out in 2007, and did the NrT upgrade as soon as that was available, so I am very familiar with the sound. I've been thinking of trying the plugs ever since they came out.

Anyone else with experience to share? (Dave F.?)

[curtis]

Mag...as you know, every room has its own characteristics.

It doesn't take much to play around. I currently have the "B" plugs in all the Sierras, crossed over at 80hz. I couldn't hear a difference crossed at 60hz, so I went with the higher crossover.

[Mag_Neato]

Oh, I know it is no big deal to experiment with the different plugs, Curtis, just looking for any advice that will give me a head start and better understanding of what to expect. The real fun of this hobby is trying different things.

[Mag_Neato]

The plugs are "Out for Delivery" according to the UPS tracking number!

I hope I have time this evening to "play"!!:)

[Mag_Neato]

OK, I got the Q-plugs yesterday and did a little experimenting.

First, I tried the "A" plugs. This basically acted like a low pass filter(If I am thinking correctly), and cut off the bass frequencies rather sharply. I can see how this would be advantageous for on-wall, near wall or inside cabinet installations. I did not leave the "A"s in very long. I sometimes like to listen in pure-direct which sends the Sierra's a full range signal with nothing to the sub.

Next went in the "B" plugs. Hmm. Not as punchy, or full, as no plug at all. But, with the sub playing and crossed over at 80Hz the sound seems to be very cohesive. Not that the sub ever seemed to not blend, but the sound seems to be more natural. Listening to some jazz streamed through Pandora, the horns were not "connected" to the speakers, but rather floated in a space somewhere between the L/R. On some bass heavy techno stuff the sound was very cohesive and punchy, or snappy. I cranked the volume up to -10 where as I usually go maybe to -15, but usually stay around -20. The sound kept its composure and seemed to want to go even louder, but I am only running a 100 watt/ch Marantz AVR so I did not want to push my luck.

I will have to spend more time playing, but initially it seems the results are positive.

[Alleric]

So have had enough time to fiddle with these and decide which I dig.

No plugs: midbass and bass is much more punchy, much more assertive transients

Plug A: sounds completely... tame? bass is still there, but it's muted slightly

Plug B: oh hey there... not quiiiiite as punchy as no plugs, but acceptable, and yeah... the imaging down there just got a little more interesting

[DavidR]

I'm wondering if I should use a Q-plug on my center Sierra-1. It's in an entertainment center on a shelf under the TV, but it's not completely enclosed on the sides or back so I'm not sure whether it'd benefit or not.

The back panel is about about 6.5" behind the speaker, but does not go all the way to the top. The bottom 5" of this shelf has a back, but the top 3" do not. There's 14.5" from the back pane to the wall behind. IOW, the speaker is in some sense both 6.5" away from a surface, and also 21" away. Also there's about 4.125" on each side of the speaker (total shelf is 22.5" wide), and it's angled up slightly such that there's no space above or below.

Does it seem like it would be worth trying a Q-plug in this case? Or is the port unrestricted enough in this situation?

Thanks for any advice,
-- Dave

[curtis]

I'm wondering if I should use a Q-plug on my center Sierra-1. It's in an entertainment center on a shelf under the TV, but it's not completely enclosed on the sides or back so I'm not sure whether it'd benefit or not.

The back panel is about about 6.5" behind the speaker, but does not go all the way to the top. The bottom 5" of this shelf has a back, but the top 3" do not. There's 14.5" from the back pane to the wall behind. IOW, the speaker is in some sense both 6.5" away from a surface, and also 21" away. Also there's about 4.125" on each side of the speaker (total shelf is 22.5" wide), and it's angled up slightly such that there's no space above or below.

Does it seem like it would be worth trying a Q-plug in this case? Or is the port unrestricted enough in this situation?

Definitely worth trying.

[kylem]

Definitely worth trying.

I agree, I have a similar setup and have one in my center.

[DavidR]

Definitely worth trying.


I agree, I have a similar setup and have one in my center.

Thanks guys. I think I'll order them and experiment. Kylem, are you using the A or B plug in your situation?

Out of curiosity, I did some quick nearfield (12.5cm and 1m) measurements today, and this is the result. For the nearfield (125mm) I centered the mic on the woofer, which I assume explains the response >1KHz. For the 1m measurements I aimed the mic right between the woofer and tweeter, also on-axis. The room obviously has a big affect on the 1m measurements.

It looks like the center is getting some good re-enforcement between 50-150Hz relative to the left speaker. Dave's plots don't show an effect above 80/90Hz, though, so I'm not sure what'll happen in my situation. Of course some of what I see could be the result of minor mic placement differences too.

[kylem]

Kylem, are you using the A or B plug in your situation?

I'm using the A plug in mine.

It's been a while since I installed it but I believe I tried both for a bit and ended up sticking with the A which is what I believe Dave recommended in a setup such as ours. If I were you, I'd try both for a few days and see which is the more pleasing to your ears.

[fozzythebear]

I need to purchase the Pair + Center kit, but I can't seem to find it anywhere in the store. Its not under Sierra-1, and it isn't under accessories. Is this still offered?

e: never mind I found the link in the original post.
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=BASK&Store_Code=AD&Action=ADPR&Product_Code=9QPKSR1&Attributes=Yes&Quantity=1

But I can't find the Pair + Center
The shopping cart:
Qty_Needed: 3_speakers

[curtis]

I need to purchase the Pair + Center kit, but I can't seem to find it anywhere in the store. Its not under Sierra-1, and it isn't under accessories. Is this still offered?

e: never mind I found the link in the original post.
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=BASK&Store_Code=AD&Action=ADPR&Product_Code=9QPKSR1&Attributes=Yes&Quantity=1

But I can't find the Pair + Center
The shopping cart:
Qty_Needed: 3_speakers
the plugs for the center are no different, so you just need to use the pull down menu and order three.