Damaged 170 Classic - repair and stay "Classic" or upgrade a pair to SE?

[mclaire]

First time poster, long time owner.

It looks one of my kid's "guests" pushed something through the woofer of one of my front 170 Classics (I had the grills off that day for the first and last time ever).

Decision time: Do I repair it with a similar woofer for about $65 (that's probably what I'll do). Does spending about $180 or so to upgrade the front pair to SE make more sense? I do NOT want to spend $320 to do all 4. If it's all or nothing, I'll stay classic and be happy.

If you need more info, I'll keep going:

Physical space: Dedicated basement home theater about 12 wide, 24 long and 7' 6" to the bottom of the exposed floor joists above (sprayed flat black). Acoustics are good because I have lots of 2'x4'x4" high density 703 acoustic panels and a padded/carpeted floor. Walls are insulated sheetrock.

Equipment: 4 170's (now apparently referred to as "Classic"), a 340 "classic" center and a HSU VTF-2 Mark II (if I recall correctly). 5.1 sound with properly positioned speakers, all of this has been in place since June 2003 (meaning they're out of warranty. Upgrading to SE resets warranty another 5 years). All driven with an Outlaw 1050 until last month, when it died and was replaced with the awesome H/K 7200 7.1 receiver (100W RMS all channels driven, found on AVS Forum classifieds for $400 - I always go for bang-for-the-buck).

80% of what we do is standard def DVD with 5.1 DD/DTS. The remaining 20% "active" music listening with quality source material. I say active because it's a dedicated listening space so it's not background music. But I dont claim to be a "critical listener" by the standards of this forum.

Sound formats and speaker decisions: We borrow standard DVDs from the library, and the local store only rents standard DVD. I have an HD plasma for TV. The theater is just for watching movies. And I want to run the wheels off my great 4805 projector since its resale is so low anyway. For now I'll use the spare 2 H/K channels for Zone II (living room) stereo.

SE vs Classic:

Woofer improvement: I have a good sub, and the 7200 has great bass management. It doesn't seem like I'm going to get much benefit from the improved SE woofer. True?

Tweeter improvement: Enough to really matter (80% HT use)? I know how subjective that question is, but I'd love to get some opinions.

I won't consider upgrading more than just the front pair. Any issues with that? Will I be worse off than just staying "classic" Don't forget my 340 center is also Classic. As great as the Sierras no doubt are, I don't see upgrading to a pair of them when 80% of my use is HT and the 170s are great as is.

Summary: I like good stuff, and I'm sure I'd hear and appreciate the upgrade. But I'm cheap and if the improvement is not substantial I don't need it. What I have is already great. In 2003 nobody articulated a "need" for what the SE apparently brings. I'm serious but not passionate about "ultimate" home theater or sound, and I have 3 college educations to think about....

Any advice/guidance appreciated.



Thanks
Mike

[DougMac]

How about this. Fix the 170, sell the front two and buy 170 SE's! Better yet, put Sierras across the front!

Seriously, since you seem like a practical guy without unlimited resources and you're happy with the sound you've got, I vote for fixing the broken speaker. Take some of the money you save and buy a cane to thrash your kid's "guests".

Hopefully others who have upgraded from 170's to SE's will chime in. I bought some used Classic 200's to determine if I liked the Ascend sound, figuring they'd either end up as surround backs in my HT or I could always use them elsewhere if I decided to go another route. I've ended up with 340SE fronts, 170SE surrounds and those 200's as surround backs. They blend in just fine for HT.

Doug

[BradJudy]

I have upgraded through most of the Ascend models and currently have Sierra's, 170s, 170SEs and 200s in various capacities. I use "classic" 170s as rears with my Sierra front 3 in our HT. The 170SEs are on my computer.

It's hard to judge if it would be worthwhile for you to upgrade. Since you are mostly HT, there's more of a difference in upgrading the center than the fronts. Ideally, one would upgrade the front three.

Clearly I won't suggest upgrading the rears since I have gone through "classic" fronts, SE fronts and Sierra fronts while keeping "classic" rears.

The SE's add a bit more clarity and performance on the upper frequencies. As you have mentioned, classics are no slouch and the release of the SEs has made the classics into a super deal on the used market if you find them.

You sound like someone who isn't nagged by wanting the latest/greatest thing and you won't second guess either decision. Fix the speaker and when one of your kids is the right age, pass them on as their first speakers and buy new ones then.

[ebh]

I agree with the consensus here. If you don't feel up to upgrading all three front speakers to SE, just fix the one broken speaker and pocket the cash. Then down the line you can consider upgrading the front soundstage with something else.

[mclaire]

Thanks for the sanity check guys.

I called Ascend and ordered a new "classic" woofer. I'll have it in a week or so. Once it's installed I'll forget I gave serious thought to ditching at least one pair of 170s in favor of Sierras. Yeah they'd be great, but what I own is already very good.

30 years ago I bought my first stereo - a pair of Advent "Large Utility Loudspeakers" which cost $100 each, along with an awesome 65 Watt Yamaha integrated amp and a Dual turntable. 15 years ago the foam woofer surround rotted so I re-coned them, and threw another $75 to upgrade the tweeters. I still use the amp and speakers together in an upstairs family room. It still sounds great, better than new, and better than what most people listen to. I was doing a lot of dumb stuff in '78, but the Advents and the amp were a great decision.

Five years ago I bought the Ascend/HSU setup because Ascend just felt like the "new Advent" to me. Five years into it, I got what I bargained for but I read some posts on the Sierras - the Advent comparison comes up short.

Advent's philosophy (Henry Kloss's philosophy) seemed to be "value through simplicity and minimal design". However, the Sierra is a high technology product with a value price. I gathered that David developed the design with minimal Ascend R&D investment, but it's his design and only Ascend can market it. It seems like he leveraged "free" global design and manufacturing capability on the promise of future volume - not capital investment. This is amazing. None of this was possible before internet communications and direct marketing. I'm not an an MBA but if I have it right, it's amazing and a very powerful demonstration of how things have changed.

It sounds like it would make a great B-school case study, but for me the 170 classics sound as good now as 2 weeks ago and 5 years ago - I'll stay with them.



Mike