receivers in the $600-$800 range

[ebh]

Hi folks,

I'd like to upgrade my Panny xr55 to a receiver that does HDMI and potentially can handle the newer audio formats (i think I'm going to get a ps3 for dvd and blu ray playback). But, I don't really know what's out there. Right now I'm considering the Marantz 7001 (~$750 from accessoriesforless.com). What else should I be looking at in this price range? Sound quality is most important to me. For whatever reason, Onkyo, Denon etc. don't really appeal to me. Used is ok too. I'm running a panasonic 509UK (768p) plasma, sierras in the front and 200s in the rear. Any help would be appreciated. thanks!

[PizzaTheHutt]

I know a lot of people across the net like the Onkyo 805. Its actually on sale at Amazon for $687.21 (from $999.00)

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR805-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B000OBJW1S

I do not have this receiver, I have an older Onkyo, however I do have a PS3 and can tell you that it has been updated to decode certain audio formats so your receiver does not have to, so you might not necessarily need to get a receiver that decodes if the PS3 can do it for you. This is done over PCM.

Whoops, I actually just re-read your post and realized what you said about Onkyo. Sorry about that, but maybe you could still take a peek just to compare. Good luck with your search!

[ebh]

thanks for the advice. that's actually a good price. i have no good reason for my prejudice, it's just how the "branding" has worked on me. For some reason--probably nothing to do with reality--I've gotten the feeling that Onkyo and the like are known more for whiz-bang features than quality amps and the like. In any event, I'll be doing more research. The field is just very large.

[bdfin]

If sound quality is the most important thing then I think you would be happy with the marantz. I have a SR7200 that is approx. 5-6 years old that has the same 110 watt per channel specs as the one you're looking at, just older without HDMI. I keep trying to find a reason to replace it but I just can't. I use mine 80% music , 20% HT. I'm not going to tell you that you should buy one because I have one, there are other receivers with identical and even more features for less, probably the Onkyo, Denon and others, and there are several people on here that use them ( Onkyo and Denon ) and like them alot. I am running 2 pairs of Sierra's up front ( just purchased, thanks Dave still lovin em ), PSB's front and rear center and some big home builts with 3- 12" JBL's per LR in the rear and the thing doesn't have a problem. There have been a 1 or 2 models of the Onkyo's I think that had some problems, but the others can fill you in which ones they were.
The sierra's would like the 110 wpc ,I wouldn't buy anything less powerful than 100 wpc but there are several brands / models that would fit that bill in that price range.

[BradJudy]

I'm actually looking into this topics right now as well. I'm currently running on a JVC receiver that I knew would be a temp purchase.

I'm definitely looking hard at the Onkyo 805 and would not consider it "bells and whistles" over quality amp - this receiver has a good reputation for sound quality. It has had some reported heat problems that seem hit-or-miss.

I'm also looking at the newer H/K receivers, which is the classic Ascend recommendation. Partially because they sell them and partially because some of us "old timers" used them originally.

I wouldn't worry too much about wattage. I have used the Sierras on amps ranging from 12W to 165W. While I wouldn't recommend 12W for a typical home theater, I think anything reliably rated at 50W or more is good for the Sierras. For example, I'm definitely considering an H/K AVR 347, which is rated at 55W (H/K is known to be conservative in their ratings).

[muzz]

I just purchased a Denon 988 for $649 at Circuit City, this is basically the same as the 2808Ci with a different remote- slight differences.
I don't use the onboard amps, so I cannot tell you how good that sounds, my guess is it sounds pretty good- 110x7 is the rating, although I didn't study the measurements specs- because I really didn't care.
I bought it to use as a Pre/Pro, and it's working fine- NP at all.
It decodes all the formats in bitstream(Pass-Through), and accepts PCM/2 channel/Multi as well.
Passes 1080P/24 too.
Has Audyssey Multi EQ XT if that means anything to folks, I have set it up using that, and have run that 6x- still tweaking the sound- but it sounds decent.
It only has 2 HDMI inputs, but it doesn't suffer from heat issues that some other favored AVR'S do.
I only use 1 HDMI input right now, cuz I bought a Dual Format HDM Player, and my cable box is using component right now.
As a pre/pro it was a no-brainer for me for $649, as I will wait till more Pre/Pros are available for a decent price before I jump again, then I will retire this to another part of the house as a good AVR.

I was actually laughing to myself as I walked out of the store.

[blindcat7]

I am in the same boat as you except that I am moving from a Panny xr57. My top contender right now is the H-K AVR-354. I was looking at the 254, but think that the extra power would be beneficial with my Sierra frontstage. In the past, I have liked Denon, but the last model I owned was the AVR-3300, so I don't know how the Denon sound may have changed. I was kind of interested in the volume equalizing function on the new Denons, but the H-K sound quality has me leaning strongly in that direction. The anticipation and official threads for the new H-Ks have got me reading AVS again. Input from new owners of the 254 has been coming in for a bit now and now new 354 owners are beginning to post their impressions.

Chris

[ebh]

Those HKs sound pretty good. The 254 is fairly reasonably priced and it doesn't seem to lack too many features of the 354. Some people seem to be reporting issues with their ps3 tho, which has me a little worried. In your research, did you see what the crossover selections for these receivers are? Now that I have the Sierras I'd love to try a 60hz crossover.

[blindcat7]

I don't think there are any general issues with the PS3, there are several PS3 owners on the threads that seem to be using them with no issues. The biggest issue of concern to me is that the video processing off mode does not seem to work completely. The BTB and WTW issue that this creates does not concern me since I don't use a HTPC or play video games anymore, but I don't want the video of my BDs or the SD DVDs upscaled by my Oppo touched by the reciever or display's processing. There seem to be some HDCP issues, particularly with DVI displays which is a concern to me until I upgrade my display, but those issues are pretty much universal in the world of HDMI.
I don't know about the crossover level, I believe that the 247/347 had crossover settings down to 40 Hz, but I am not absolutely sure of that. I hope that this is true. I plan on staying with an 80 Hz crossover, especially if I eventually am able to add the Hsu MBM-12 that I have been wanting, but I would like to experiment more with the Sierras bass capabilities and to have the option of lowering the crossover from time to time for 2.1 music.

I have wavered a few times on spending the extra on the 354, I have dreams of getting an external amp and the extra power and better power supply on the 354 are the only upgrades that are of any real meaning to me, but realistically, barring a major windfall, I am a LONG way away from a separate amp and I think the extra power and better power supply might make a noticeable difference with the Sierras. I am considering going with the 354 and selling the Bridge 2 iPod dock to recover some of the extra since I avoid the iPod brand because of low vision accessibility issues.

After hearing the Yamahas at a store in Las Cruces and after reading some early experiences with the Pio 1018 I have crossed them off of the list of possible alternatives. Barring better sound in the new line of Onkyos, I don't want to go that route, so I am left with the H-Ks, the new Denons, and the lower end Pio Elites. I am really leaning towards the H-Ks and think that unless a real dealbreaking issue comes to light I am going to end up going that way. I would really have liked it if H-K had taken this opportunity to catch up in the inputs area with a minimum of 4 HDMI inputs, but I don't need 4 at this moment and have a 5X1 switch, so not a real issue, I just like to have room to grow.

I still wish that Panny would continue the digital reciever line with some higher end, more full featured models, but their new reciever is either analog, or some kind of analog/digital amp hybrid depending on which article you read and there has been no word I have read on what new features have been added, so I am not really even considering that one.

Chris

Those HKs sound pretty good. The 254 is fairly reasonably priced and it doesn't seem to lack too many features of the 354. Some people seem to be reporting issues with their ps3 tho, which has me a little worried. In your research, did you see what the crossover selections for these receivers are? Now that I have the Sierras I'd love to try a 60hz crossover.

[ebh]

I don't think there are any general issues with the PS3, there are several PS3 owners on the threads that seem to be using them with no issues. The biggest issue of concern to me is that the video processing off mode does not seem to work completely. The BTB and WTW issue that this creates does not concern me since I don't use a HTPC or play video games anymore, but I don't want the video of my BDs or the SD DVDs upscaled by my Oppo touched by the reciever or display's processing. There seem to be some HDCP issues, particularly with DVI displays which is a concern to me until I upgrade my display, but those issues are pretty much universal in the world of HDMI.

That is troubling re: the processor off mode. I also do not want the receiver touching the upscaling done by my ps3. I will continue to follow the thread. I think my choice is going to be between one of the HKs or the Marantz.

[blindcat7]

At least the prossing problem should be fixable via firmware update unlike some other problems that often pop up in new model recievers. I am still unclear as to whether the processing problem actually touches 1080p signals which are supposed to be able to be passed through untouched even when processing is on for lower definition material through the same input. If it leaves those alone, I don't care about anything else since I would likely use processing for anything not hitting the reciever at 1080p, once I get a 1080p display anyway. Since the vagaries of my eye condition have made my RPTV a pain to see in any detail anyway I don't really care if it touches my video going out as 1080i to this display. Until I get a LCD display that my eyes have less trouble with, it doesn't really make any difference to me now, it is the future that concerns me.

I may have to look into the Marantz new models as options. Don't think I have heard a Marantz reciever for a number of years. Liked what I heard way back, but prefered the Denon models back then.

I am definitely going to be watching the H-K threads closely, didn't catch up yesterday, will have to check in tonight. Now that people are getting the 354 and the 254 is becoming more widely available, it should get more informative. The hard part for me is that my current fund has enough in it for me to get the 254 next week if I care to, but will require about a month for me to get the 354 or any of the alternates I am looking at. The temptation to just jump and get instant gratification is just really looming. Especially since my system needs to be completely rewired and I have promised my sighted help not to ask them to mess with it until I get the new reciever if they promise not to kill me for asking them to go through another setup gauntlet with me drill sergeanting. I just keep telling myself that I can watch Dish and DVDs on my system and that I can stand having to watch my Blu-rays on my brother's PS3 for a bit longer until mine can be reintegrated into the system with the new reciever.

Chris


That is troubling re: the processor off mode. I also do not want the receiver touching the upscaling done by my ps3. I will continue to follow the thread. I think my choice is going to be between one of the HKs or the Marantz.

[tcat]

I moved from a Panny XR57 to the Onkyo 805 and am very happy. Only thing I don't like about it is the weight, size, and how hot it gets... but I guess that means it's working hard, and it's cheaper "per pound".

[scape]

i owned the hk avr-254 for about a week. it was solid and performed well. it ran at moderate temperature, looks sleek, and the menu system is a breeze to work with. however, the control over the features are lacking a bit. i returned the unit due to it making excessive fan noise (yea it has a fan for the video unit) and that is unacceptable to me at that price range. i moved on and struggled between a denon avr-988 and 1909, i ended up wanting the new audyssey features so i bought the 1909 and have never looked back. it is extremely well built, has a dizzying amount of control and features and in my opinion made my speakers sound fantastic compared to the hk unit; which sounded great in it's own right-- audyssey features are something else, there is a reason it is in many of the top tier avr units. the downside to the denon? well it is certainly not as pretty, no pre-outs for the 7 channels, the menu is terrible to work with, no way to update any firmware (the hk does have this), and the controller is something left to be desired...the ups? extremely finetuning control over the features, higher rated amps per channel, and no fans (to my knowledge!)

it's a great unit, and i highly recommend it-- for what that's worth! :D

[blindcat7]

I have also been looking at Denon as a possible alternate route. Until I went with the Panny XR-57 I was a Denon only guy for many years. The lack of preouts on the 1909 is a deal killer for me. I want my next reciever to be a step towards separates and so if I give up on the HK, I have to go all the way up to the 2809 to get the number of HDMI inputs I need plus preouts. Also, the 1909 does not likely have any more power than the HK. Denon and HK use different standards for reporting amp power, HK is about the only company that actually reports their amp power with all channels driven with a real world signal. That is why their recievers always report less power than other companies. If Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, and Onkyo did the same, their recievers power levels would be listed at half or less of what the manufacturer's claim. This does not mean that there is anything wrong with their amps, like I said I have been a Denon guy for years, I just wish the myth of reciever amp power ratings would disappear. Power wise, the 254 is probably somewhere between the 1909 and the 2309 in amp power and it might even equal the 2809, but I would not state that confidently without actual comparison. Again, I don't state this to say anything aginst your choice to switch to Denon since I love Denon and might be going back to them myself, I just wish that this particular myth would go away, mostly I just wish that Denon and the others would abandon the numbers game and would report the numbers based on actual all channel use. The conversion from what HK reports to what other brand reports usually means that one should multiply the power of an HK by 1.5 to 2 in order to get a fairer comparison. Some have said that the multiple should be larger, but the times I have been exposed to an HK in someone else's system has lead me to stick to the 1.5 to 2 number.

Personally, the fan thing would not have made me switch brands, if the reciever was working well for everything else I would have simply exchanged it since there are plenty of people who do not have the fan noise problem, but everyone approaches these issues differently depending on how much such things bother them. From my perspective, the fan thing is fixable, it is the other reported problems that are giving me pause on going with a HK 254 or 354.

For me, the biggest things giving me reservations on the HKs is the PPCM issues since I use a PS3 as a Blu-ray player, the inability to completely turn off the video processing, though I don't know if this actually has an effect on sources that are already 1080p. If it does not then it becomes a non issue to me, and the biggie is the apparent tendency of the HKs to jump to Logic 7 whether it is told to or not. I don't know if I like Logic 7 or not, but as someone who needs to be able to either hit a button for a particular setting be it stereo, surround stereo, PLII, or Logic 7 and have the reciever stay there until I tell it to do something different, or to be able to do the same thing cycling with a single button, the important thing to someone who can't read the OSD is to be able to memorize patterns of functions and have the unit do what I tell it to and not go off on some Logic 7 tangent. What concerns me is that some have said that this issue is one that HK has allowed to persist on other models so, even if they fix everything else, it might make the 254 or 354 not an option for me.

Sadly, issues around a family health emergency caused me to spend my reciever fund elsewhere, so I am starting over again in saving up for a new reciever. My desire to have the HK sound and its reported chemistry with my Ascend speakers has me hoping aginst hope that HK will actually fix the issues in a timely fashion. Otherwise, I will be saving longer for a Denon that I know from past experience will work just fine for me, but that will cost me a great deal more to get the same level of features and performance. The fact that I have to go up to the 2809 also has me watching the new Pioneer Elites that fall in between the price range of the 254 and the Denon 2809. Maybe I should just give up on the HKs, but I have been interested in their wide current amp approach for a long time and have especially wanted to try an HK since getting my first Ascends and hearing people talk about the symbiotic relationship between Ascends and HK amps. But if HK is going to be unable to bring these models up to snuff, I will be all too happy to go back to Denon or to try out a Pioneer Elite, the last time I had a Pioneer was when I had an entry level Pio Prologic reciever paired with my first laserdisc player. Confidence from past experience has me leaning Denon's way, but the shorter time it would take to save for a comparable Pioneer with preouts keeps me from just making up my mind and targeting the 2809 with my reciever fund.

Chris


i owned the hk avr-254 for about a week. it was solid and performed well. it ran at moderate temperature, looks sleek, and the menu system is a breeze to work with. however, the control over the features are lacking a bit. i returned the unit due to it making excessive fan noise (yea it has a fan for the video unit) and that is unacceptable to me at that price range. i moved on and struggled between a denon avr-988 and 1909, i ended up wanting the new audyssey features so i bought the 1909 and have never looked back. it is extremely well built, has a dizzying amount of control and features and in my opinion made my speakers sound fantastic compared to the hk unit; which sounded great in it's own right-- audyssey features are something else, there is a reason it is in many of the top tier avr units. the downside to the denon? well it is certainly not as pretty, no pre-outs for the 7 channels, the menu is terrible to work with, no way to update any firmware (the hk does have this), and the controller is something left to be desired...the ups? extremely finetuning control over the features, higher rated amps per channel, and no fans (to my knowledge!)

it's a great unit, and i highly recommend it-- for what that's worth! :D

[scape]

yea not picking back up the hk was actually pretty difficult for me, but the company explicitly told me they cannot guarantee it will not happen again or even which batches of the models were affected. the hk did have just a dead silent signal transmission, even the denon seems to have a small amount of hiss when the volume is way up, i'm sure when i clean up my components and get a new dvd player things will sound better. but, in the end the solid quality of the denon, the audyssey features, the very fine grain controls (including hdmi upconverts and color range), and what seems like a large online backing won me over...well that and impatience :\

[ebh]

Blindcat, I'm basically in the same boat as you. I'm thinking about Pio elite and maybe the 2809, as well as waiting to see what happens with the prices on Marantz 7001 or 7002 (or 8001 or 8002) whenever the higher number x003 pieces are released (some say October).

Another thing I am considering is picking up a HK 247 from Newegg refurbished for $250 (I have also heard Frys is clearing out there stock of 347s for something crazy like $200 but I have not taken the journey to find out if it's still available).

The HK 247 appears to have all the kinks worked out with the latest firmware, unlike the extremely shoddy x54s. As far as I can tell, the only thing it won't do that the x54 series does is matrix the uncompressed audio from 5.1 to 7.1. This is a feature I would like, but I am still not watching so many blu-ray disks that it would be a deal breaker. At $250 it might be a good holdover until something else comes up.

[DougMac]

I am in the same boat as you except that I am moving from a Panny xr57.
Chris
I notice Chris and others here have moved on from the Panny XR55/57.

For those of you who have, did you notice a significant difference in SQ? It may not be a good question without taking in consideration where you moved, to, but most have moved to a $600-$800 range and I imagine that receivers in that range are fairly similar.

I have a Panny XR57. I find the SQ very detailed, but sometimes it sounds a little "thin", for lack of a better term.

I'm trying to simplify things. We had a friend check the house and cats while we went to see our new grandson for a few days. She wanted to use the home theater. Five remotes and three pages of instructions later, I realized how silly my current setup is. The Panny has one HDMI in and I've got two HDMI sources running to a switch box, which has it's own remote.

In addition to battling the video issues, I suffer from the well known LFE bug. I compensate by choosing different subwoofer settings on the Panny, but it's just one more bit of fiddly business.

Lastly, I got an unexpected bonus from my company (for making my customer look really good). My wife insists I spend it as mad money. To compicate this discussion, I'm looking at the Sony STR-DA4300ES ES, which is on sale at Amazon for less than the STR-DA3300ES ES. Edit - I just did a little research. These Sony models are discontinued and it seems that they had so many problems Sony has set up a buy back plan. Looks like I'll be looking elsewhere!

Thanks for any thoughts on SQ.

Doug

[scape]

i would double check the reviews on that sony unit, i read in a few places it is not exactly up to snuff compared to similar avr's, i do think anything you get in this price range will be outstanding and make things easier on yourself in the long run. but to be honest, i'm still with 4 remotes!

edit re sony: hah beat me to it!

[blindcat7]

Exactly why I want to move on. I have no power problems with the 57, but the hookup situation is absolutely asinine. I never was able to get a single HDMI device to give video through the Panny to my DVI RPTV, even though I got them to work when directly hooked up to the display and when hooked up through the HDMI switch. Right now my setup is mostly dismantled because of my sighted help getting sidetracked while trying to help me get the complicated mess put back together in a more orderly and functional way.

I still haven't moved on and don't know when I will replenish my upgrade fund. I am having surgery week after next that will leave me mostly in bed for the next month or so, so I should have plenty of time to consider which way I am going to go. Would have been a good time to have the new reciever to tinker with, but such is life. I am hoping that while I am out of commission HK might actually fix their line, butif not, I will probably start saving for the Denon while watching the HK threads for fixes and keeping up with the Pio threads as well. If Panny was to start putting out class D digital recievers with feature sets comparable to the HK, Denon, Pioneer, etc. options, I would gladly stay with them. I love the sound, but they don't seem interested in going that route from what has been released about their new reciever, so I am looking elsewhere.

Chris


I notice Chris and others here have moved on from the Panny XR55/57.

For those of you who have, did you notice a significant difference in SQ? It may not be a good question without taking in consideration where you moved, to, but most have moved to a $600-$800 range and I imagine that receivers in that range are fairly similar.

I have a Panny XR57. I find the SQ very detailed, but sometimes it sounds a little "thin", for lack of a better term.

I'm trying to simplify things. We had a friend check the house and cats while we went to see our new grandson for a few days. She wanted to use the home theater. Five remotes and three pages of instructions later, I realized how silly my current setup is. The Panny has one HDMI in and I've got two HDMI sources running to a switch box, which has it's own remote.

In addition to battling the video issues, I suffer from the well known LFE bug. I compensate by choosing different subwoofer settings on the Panny, but it's just one more bit of fiddly business.

Lastly, I got an unexpected bonus from my company (for making my customer look really good). My wife insists I spend it as mad money. To compicate this discussion, I'm looking at the Sony STR-DA4300ES ES, which is on sale at Amazon for less than the STR-DA3300ES ES. Edit - I just did a little research. These Sony models are discontinued and it seems that they had so many problems Sony has set up a buy back plan. Looks like I'll be looking elsewhere!

Thanks for any thoughts on SQ.

Doug

[scape]

Good luck on the surgery, hope all is well.
I have to say, my denon was a great purchase, perhaps in time you will go that route. As for panny making receivers, I always fear a company outreaching too much, the level of quality begins to suffer. I like the idea of sticking with companies that do only a few things really well, rather than many things pretty good or worse.
take it easy!



Exactly why I want to move on. I have no power problems with the 57, but the hookup situation is absolutely asinine. I never was able to get a single HDMI device to give video through the Panny to my DVI RPTV, even though I got them to work when directly hooked up to the display and when hooked up through the HDMI switch. Right now my setup is mostly dismantled because of my sighted help getting sidetracked while trying to help me get the complicated mess put back together in a more orderly and functional way.

I still haven't moved on and don't know when I will replenish my upgrade fund. I am having surgery week after next that will leave me mostly in bed for the next month or so, so I should have plenty of time to consider which way I am going to go. Would have been a good time to have the new reciever to tinker with, but such is life. I am hoping that while I am out of commission HK might actually fix their line, butif not, I will probably start saving for the Denon while watching the HK threads for fixes and keeping up with the Pio threads as well. If Panny was to start putting out class D digital recievers with feature sets comparable to the HK, Denon, Pioneer, etc. options, I would gladly stay with them. I love the sound, but they don't seem interested in going that route from what has been released about their new reciever, so I am looking elsewhere.

Chris

[ebh]

I'm considering waiting to see what emotiva's coming pre-pro will be like. while it+amp will be out of the price range of this thread, going separates could be cool. I just hope it will have less bugs than the first pre-pro they put out.

[DougMac]

going separates could be cool.
Agreed. It just makes so much more sense. Get some amps you like, then only upgrade the processor. I've got an NAD T762. I like the way it sounds, but it was built pre-HDMI. There are ways around the problem, but it's fiddly business. It's funny how perceptions change. I thought nothing of plunking down $1200 or whatever it costs, but now I think spending more than $800 is extravagant.

Doug

[scape]

Agreed. It just makes so much more sense. Get some amps you like, then only upgrade the processor. I've got an NAD T762. I like the way it sounds, but it was built pre-HDMI. There are ways around the problem, but it's fiddly business. It's funny how perceptions change. I thought nothing of plunking down $1200 or whatever it costs, but now I think spending more than $800 is extravagant.

Doug

technology gets cheaper :D these avr's would be well in 10's of thousands in the 80's and early 90's...

[ebh]

i have to say, the onkyo 805 at ~$600 is starting to call to me too. I still hear mixed things about sound quality for music but overall seems like a solid unit. oh the decisions!

edit: changed my mind. apparently it can't layer 7.1 on a 5.1 uncompressed track. and, it has lipsynch issues. might as well go with an old hk 247 for $200, which is another thing I'm considering. Then I could buy an Emotiva amp or something.

[blindcat7]

Thanks, since the surgery is going to allow me to eat without pain that has been with me for several years now, I am looking forward to it as much as I am dreading it.

The reason the last few generations of Panny recievers were such a craze was their use of class D digital amp. Basically the amp did the amploification and the digital to analog conversion all in one step. Since one of the big goals is to keep conversions to a minimum, it was the ultimate in having a pure digital path. The XR57 I have mow definitely beat my previous Denons and many much more expensive recievers that friends brought around to compare in pure AQ, especially detail and lack of distortion. What one gave up in these inexpensive recievers was almost any bells and whistles, a lot of features that were standard on other brand recievers several generations back, like 7.1 over HDMI and the end of the LFE bug that made the LFE channel 10 db lower from certain sources. Their newest effort still does not, AFAIK have any kind of video conversion or transcoding from component video to HDMI. So, they have traditionally offered SQ that is just WAY beyond the price point but with entry level features and a slower curve at adopting all that one might want from HDMI and fixing some of the little annoyances like the LFE bug. Oh, they also offered a little feature that allowed one to bridge unused amps when using a 5.1 instead of 7.1 setup or playing stereo music. Basically, the unused amps were used along with the main left and right channel amps and it was actually quite nice. If they had gotten the idea to try to actually compete with the major brands on features, most particularly transcoding and upconversion, I would happily stick with them, but they seem determined to keep up their status quo and that just doesn't work for me anymore. I keep hoping that Denon, Pio, or one or more of the other big players will try out the Class D digital scheme. It is a dream of mine to hear DSD over HDMI on an SACD that is digital from start to the very end of the chain, but so far the closest is the upper end Pio Elites which are using analog Class D amplification.

Right now, the Denon 2809 is top of my list, though I am considering one of the analog ICEPOWER Pioneer amps if I can manage to save enough (can't recall which is the first model to use these amp modules, so not sure what the minimum target price is), I still haven't given up on HK fixing the problems by the time I replenish my reciever fund. I am also sort of tenatively looking at the new Onkyo's though I did not like the sound of the X05 line in store, and I am also considering, since I am basically starting saving from scratch, saving for Outlaw's new preamp and a starter amp from them or Emotiva which could then set me up for saving up for a Class D external amp at a later date. My dream is to eventually have monoblock digital amps for center and main and then a 4 channel amp for ther rest of a 7.1 setup. Any of these routes will allow me to take this modular approach which helps with my current piddling income level, but it is tempting to save a little longer, sell some collectables I've been holding onto and go the Outlaw route getting to separates a little sooner than planned. But then I remind myself that I still need to get a flatscreen to dump the behemoth 1080i Hitachi that is taking up half of my room and the less pricey options begin to look more attractive again.

The biggest bummer in living with my current complicated mess of a setup is that my brothers were supposed to help me get my setup rewired in time for me to be able to spend my coming down time enjoying BDs and DVDs on my system. Life and circumstances kept them from managing it in time, so I will have to spend my 4 to 6 weeks of downtime watching DVDs on a Toshiba portable DVD player and listening to audio books. Bummer, but could be worse, at least I have about a hundred DVDs in the queue that I haven't watched yet and a stack of audio books a mile high, and when all is healed I have a list of foods I haven't been able to eat for years that I am going to indulge in for at least a month straight.

Good luck to all of you other reciever questers. I'll be reading the forums and should start posting again once I am feeling better.

Chris


Good luck on the surgery, hope all is well.
I have to say, my denon was a great purchase, perhaps in time you will go that route. As for panny making receivers, I always fear a company outreaching too much, the level of quality begins to suffer. I like the idea of sticking with companies that do only a few things really well, rather than many things pretty good or worse.
take it easy!

[scape]

if 2809 is in your view, don't forget last years 988/2808- it may not have audyssey dynamics, but they are astounding for their current price (plus have pre-outs). these upper 2000 series have burr-brown DAC's (two) for great SACD audio quality.
i for one cannot believe i almost passed up this denon i own now, 1909, it is far superior than the hk 254 I had for a few weeks; this is in my opinion and for my uses (and that is strictly my opinion, the hk was amazing in it's own right!) at first I thought: "denon, who?", but after using this receiver I don't think I'll be looking back. there is always, I mean always ups and downs of anything being sold in a competitive market-- it really comes down to what you want and need. I didn't need pre-amps, but did need good quality amps. I didn't need need hdmi but wanted that feature. you know...
i will say this, the dynamic volume is a beloved feature that I practically cherish, I can't stand cable tv's volume issues; and with dynamic eq, late night movies are not a problem (everything is audible and clear). I will say this though, the auto calibration on the HK's (if you're going to calibrate) did not allow me to calibrate without more than 2 speakers (which I find strange because even simple setups may need calibration and eqing, or atleast I think so). If you have the money, test your top two choices and send one back.
good luck on your surgery!