Best Low Volume performance: CMT-340 SE or Sierra-1?

[VanJerry]

Well...

Thanks to HSU being out of stock on their VTF2 MK3 I've had a wonderful opportunity to entertain a pre-order upgraditus. It starts out: If I can't get a sub for what may turn out to be who knows how long, well then, what was that about the Sierra's extended and punchier bass...? The more I looked deeper into the speaker I couldn't afford, the more I found I couldn't afford not to look into it. What remains to end my reevaluation comes down to this...


The question:

Which of these two choices would provide the best low to middle volume performance both in stereo, and as centers? - Any way you'd care to approach it: though weight, intelligibility, nuance, imaging and the ability to sound "in the room" natural would be some obvious aspects that I could think of.


CMT-340 left, right, center

Sierra-1 left, right, center


I'm putting this out on behalf of those who prefer or expect to face volume restrictions. In my case my wife and I always do our movie watching together but she cannot stand to listen to movies run too loudly. When we listen to 2-channel music it's usually at moderate, often even at background levels. Man! We're O-L-D!

I've read about the low level performance of the Sierra in Sean Fowler's AffordableAudio.org review (see excerpt below.)

On the other hand I'm still looking to come across anything about the 340's at low volume. Anyone?

So, just based on hardware, it's more refined components vs. pretty darn refined components with double woofers. Till DaveF weighs in on the physics of this, what are your experiences?

I should add on a related level how DaveF observed that while his Sierra's were playing loudly he found himself able to carry on a normal conversation! Hm, might this be a cure for my wife's (and sometimes my own) avoidance of the joy of loud? There could be those occasions, even for the very very very old...;)



From AffordableAudio:

"I am a hopeless romantic (some just say I’m hopeless) that enjoys softer late night listening sessions - meaning that my ears tend to perk in the direction of components that are able to render great low level resolution. The Sierra 1’s do not disappoint in this regard, and while they do lose an ever so slight bit of sparkle on top – they still deliver all the goods that leave me content and in my chair. Even at whisper volumes, Diana Krall’s “Live in Paris” sounded expansive and alive. Nirvana’s “Un-plugged” album retained its atmosphere and edge." - Sean Fowler

[curtis]

First, low volume performance of the entire Ascend line is excellent, 170SE, 340SE, and Sierra.....I have yet to hear the 200SE, but would expect the same. Excellent performance at all volume levels is something that I think Ascend/DaveF strives for.

That said, the Sierra would perform best in that range, as it would in its overall operating range.

If sitting down and listening to music is important to you, then I think the Sierras are the way to go. In fact, I think most of us here have ended up listening to more music than we thought we would after getting our Ascends.

If the room is going to be used for mostly HT, then my choice would be to save a bit and go the 340SE route. You would still have an excellent music setup.

It is a tough decision to begin with, and even tougher when you can not experience the difference in person.

[VanJerry]

Thank you Curtis,

Hearing that DaveF institutes excellent low volume performance for the entire line - well, that just provides yet another measure of the kind of sincerity of purpose that attracts me to choose an Ascend: You can't go wrong - it just remains to be determined how much to go right.

[MichaelG]

I'm putting this out on behalf of those who prefer or expect to face volume restrictions. In my case my wife and I always do our movie watching together but she cannot stand to listen to movies run too loudly. When we listen to 2-channel music it's usually at moderate, often even at background levels. Man! We're O-L-D!

I've read about the low level performance of the Sierra in Sean Fowler's AffordableAudio.org review (see excerpt below.)



From AffordableAudio:

"I am a hopeless romantic (some just say I’m hopeless) that enjoys softer late night listening sessions - meaning that my ears tend to perk in the direction of components that are able to render great low level resolution. The Sierra 1’s do not disappoint in this regard, and while they do lose an ever so slight bit of sparkle on top – they still deliver all the goods that leave me content and in my chair. Even at whisper volumes, Diana Krall’s “Live in Paris” sounded expansive and alive. Nirvana’s “Un-plugged” album retained its atmosphere and edge." - Sean Fowler

I think that quote is quite good for listening to lower volumes.

My wife also did not like to listen to loud movies. Often, when watching movies she would ask me to turn it down because it hurt her ears. I find with the upgrade to Sierra's, that she does not complain about the loudness. I too find that I can listen to music and movies louder. I'm sure Dave could explain the why's better than I.

Michael

[VanJerry]

Thanks MichaelG,

Wow, it dawns on me DaveF's created a speaker for our times:


Romantically delivers the goods even at whisper quiet.
Restores man's primeval access to play it loud with approval.


In an increasingly stressed out, crowded, polarized world sounds like Sierra's possess best of everything.

This will save ears.

This will save evictions!

This will revitalize marriages!! :D

...This may bring peace to the world...

DaveF for President! (......oh he is president?)

[guard52]

Thank you Curtis,

Hearing that DaveF institutes excellent low volume performance for the entire line - well, that just provides yet another measure of the kind of sincerity of purpose that attracts me to choose an Ascend: You can't go wrong - it just remains to be determined how much to go right.

Low level listening is one of the factors that I find so enjoyable with the Sierra 1's.
They are capable of reproducing full sound at very low levels. Other speakers I have owned tended to sound a bit tinny and lifeless until you cranked them up a bit. BTW I am in Chilliwack B.C. so we are almost neighbors.

[VanJerry]

I thought I heard a nice sound on some Easterly winds.


Low level listening is one of the factors that I find so enjoyable with the Sierra 1's.
They are capable of reproducing full sound at very low levels. Other speakers I have owned tended to sound a bit tinny and lifeless until you cranked them up a bit.

...Mostly the best I've read about or heard for myself were a few speakers that didn't need to be played loud to sound satisfying. I think I've only heard of a couple of speakers that could do that at low levels. Here's a speaker that exceeds my wildest expectations and reproduces full sound at very low levels. Even among those who don't need it to, this must be a real measure of exceptional design and execution that lends confidence about the performance at all levels.

When I think about it, it's remarkable. Here appears to be a speaker that absolutely frees the listener to hear it exactly the way they wish! Soft, it will satisfy. Loud, it won't irritate. Sub or no sub... And you can sit pretty much where you please.

Thanks guard52.

[zkaudio]

Call me crazy but I consider the sierras to be a much better speaker at high volumes than low...

[curtis]

Call me crazy but I consider the sierras to be a much better speaker at high volumes than low...
Not crazy at all...I think they are great at lower volumes, but I would much rather crank them up.

[VanJerry]

That's cool, zkaudio. I'm not looking for a freak of a loudspeaker that only sounds better down low. :)

From user posts it's clear the Ascends are all great LOUD. It just happens they are pretty talented in my direction too and I'd like to confirm which of these two in particular does that trick best.

[dallas]

Personally, and I'm not an expert but not a amateur either, I feel the sierra's sound great at low level, but you have to get to a moderate volume until the bass "builds up" enough to carry through the room. At low levels, it seems not neccessarily absent, but very muted.

I'm guessing it part of the rear-ported design that after a certain amount of airflow/power, it really starts to kick in and catch-up to the other frequency's. As a motorcycle rider, I woud analogize it to power-band on a 2-stroke. MMMMmmm, power-band.

[VanJerry]

I feel the sierra's sound great at low level, but you have to get to a moderate volume until the bass "builds up" enough to carry through the room. At low levels, it seems not neccessarily absent, but very muted.


I appreciate that information dallas. But you make me realize I neglected to define what's "quiet", "low level" or moderate. I'd struggle to say from somewhere above a whisper through conversational up to 60 or even approaching 70 dB which I know is still quite a range.

[Editing note: earlier I interpreted the comments as being 2 1/2 to 2 1/2. On reexamining the comments to this point I realize I was being too severe in my tally in that any hint of a hedge and I didn't give the Sierra's their full "point." If instead I honor the spirit of each poster's intent I see those that find the Sierra's are talented at low levels vs those that say it's nice but not quite working for them till it gets louder is about 3 3/4 to 1. (1/4 subtracted due to one opinion bass needs a little more volume to fully kick in. Though for me, aside from HT, that's what a sub is for: subtle fill-in at low volumes so I can forgive any speaker that could use some low volume bass boost.) But then I invited comments instead of setting up a poll so I shouldn't even be messing with numbers at all, really. And one more thing... I realized that I should also have asked everybody to include what they were using to power the speakers - so I'm afraid anybody using this information will have to keep that in mind. Forums are a new medium for me: I'll try to think things through better in the future.]

The only other thing I'd wonder about is whether some have the advantage of a quieter environment (the way things sound louder when the 40 dB of urban daytime background noise subsides.) Or which of you are more used to high SPL's... What is it - something like a day for ears to return to normal? For some the daily dosing may be always just short of achieving full recovery. ... ... I SAID FOR SOME THE DAILY DOSING MAY OUTPACE RECOVERY. ... Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply any of you were slamming your hearing: - That was just me losing my memory... ;)

[VanJerry]

Here's DaveF's take on the matter.

I asked him about it briefly while ferreting out some other information: very hush hush - all I can tell you is that it involves bamboo mats, the sea sponge option, and the correct placement of the lower tomato.


"Without question, the Sierra-1... Quality low-level listening requires exceptional coherency and the Sierra-1 provides this in spades..."

I was curious if the 3 MDF inch equivalent bamboo enclosure would play a role in this:


"The bamboo enclosure certainly helps. Any leakage of energy through the cabinet walls and cabinet resonance will detract from low-level (and high-level) listening. One important requirement for quality low-level listening is a characteristic that can be defined as signal to noise ratio and a clean cumulative spectral decay. For example, if the output of the speaker is 70dB, how much of that is noise and various distortions. With the Sierra-1, the bamboo cabinet almost completely eliminates the cabinet effects of resonance and energy leakage resulting in a larger percentage of that 70dB output being the source material, rather than noise and various distortions. Another requirement, as mentioned, is clean spectral decay -- in basic terms, the ability for the speaker to release and recover from energy release (rather than storing energy). MDF cabinets flex greatly compared with the laminated bamboo enclosure, when walls flex they must return to the original position and that "return" releases an opposing force that is contradictory to the next transient the speaker is attempting to reproduce -- that would be an example of stored energy."

Who said physics wasn't cool. Turns out Newton makes for great music. You know Newton, don't you? He's the guy that first noticed that iPods break when they hit the ground...

[VanJerry]

Looks like the Sierra is the best fit for me.

But in the interest of being fair and balanced and to avoid appearing ridiculously evangelical I have to put out that perhaps some of the "whisper quiet" performance in Sean Fowler's review might be due to the Red Wind Audio Signature 30 he used. I mean, Sean was good enough to also use the HK 3470, but reading the 6moons review (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/redwine4/30.html) indicates the 30 has certain advantages for helping low level performance, not the least of which would be a phenomenally low noise floor. Add that to the exceptional coherency of the Sierra-1 and, wow, what a dream team. And half of it is affordable!

Well, it reminds that though the Sierra's are very accessible price-wise, that doesn't mean they're not ready and deserving of being treated in the style of their multi-thousand dollar equivalents. Which is nice to know really... someday my Sierra's are going to be mingling among the rich and famous :cool:

Fowler's Affordable Audio review equipment:
Source: Arcam Diva 62 ; E-MU 1212M
Integrated Amp: Red Wine Audio Signature 30 , Harman Kardon 3470
Cables: Totem Acoustic Sinew interconnect ; Totem Acoustic “Tres” speaker cable;
Zu Cable “birth” power cable
Room Treatments: Eighth Nerve “Adapt” Triangles ; GIK Acoustics 242 Panels