Just bought my first ever 2 ch pre-amp!

[merrymaid520]

If you followed my ICE amp thread, you may have noticed I have been upgrading some things in my system lately.

The current setup is now my front 3 sierras and 170's for surrounds.

Equipment,
Yamaha Rx-V2600 receiver
Proceed Amp3 3 ch amp
Oppo DVD player
Xbox 360 for streaming music

The new pre-amp will be a parasound Halo P3. I have always wanted to improve my 2ch performance and was told a dedicated pre-amp will make the most difference, obviously without upgrading my sierras. I am still thinking about snagging a used proceed "pre" for comparison, if I find a decent deal on one.

Anyway, I will incorporate this into my surround system with some rigging & screwing around with using both the balanced & unbalanced inputs of the proceed amp. It may not be ideal, but i can get it to work just fine.

I will run the analog outs from my xbox and oppo into the p3 for sources.

Does anyone have any experience from using a mid level receiver going to a dedicated 2ch pre-amp with some ascends?

I will keep you all posted as to the results when it arrives!

Later,

Brandon

[curtis]

What is the analog performance of the Oppo or PS3 suppose to be like?

[merrymaid520]

The oppo has pretty decent analog performance for the price it costs. As for the PS3 & 360, they both get good reviews, not high end by any means but not bad either. I stream quite a few WMA lossless files across the 360, therefore avoiding any compression.

I have to imagine the new pre-amp will easily trump the yamaha in terms of 2 ch performance.

What are your thoughts on going this route curtis?

Later,
Brandon

[curtis]

I am wondering if the "decent" performance with an analog connection to the pre-amp will actually be better than a digital connection to the Yamaha.

In other words, are the DACs in the players better than the DACs in the Yamaha?

I have thought about getting a pre/pro with an HT bypass, but if I went that route, I would want to get an external DAC. I also would have to think about sub integration.

[merrymaid520]

I hear ya. The p3 does not have a way to integrate my sub, which is fine for me. As for which unit has better DAC's, I guess only time will tell. I figured the receiver focuses on so many different tasks and a dedicated pre only has one thing to do and its built for that purpose.

If I dont like it or theres no noticeable benefit I can sell it again.

With a seperate DAC, you run a digital connection out of the CDP(transport) to the unit then analog outs to the preamp correct? This then allows the DAC to handle all the conversions I think.
Hmm....someday maybe.

Later,
B

[mightymouse]

Please post your impressions of the Parasound preamp when you get around to it. Looking forward to reading it.

[merrymaid520]

I will post my impressions after it arrives on Thursday.

[BOLTS]

Excellent pre-amp. I have had it for about three years now with no complaints. The front face does scratch easily so use care.

I use a Monarchy Dac for use with my Yamaha music server (horrible DAC). If needed e-bay can be a good used source. With the Monarchy the server presents convenience and quality. You will need to judge your source units quality but my NAD DVD-Audio player sounds perfect via analog connections.

BTW the P-3 has a good quality Phono Pre-amp but no sub-out so y-connectors on the power out was my best solution although the Kappa 400 speakers really do not need a sub for music.

[merrymaid520]

BOLTS,

Glad to hear I picked a decent pre-amp:D
You also run your setup with sierras just as I do......good to know!

Do you feel the pre-amp is a decent step up over a mid level receiver in terms of 2ch listening? As for the seperate DAC debate, I am going to wait and see. I just ordered the newer oppo 980 and sold my 970. The 980 has upgraded DAC's for better analog sound. This might help a bit and is far cheaper than adding a seperate DAC.

Can you elaborate on the Y connector & how you managed to intigrate a sub with the the P3?

Thanks man!

Brandon

[BOLTS]

The speakers are most important, of course but using the direct inputs (there are two) on your best sources keeps the signal as pure as possible. I added both the Parasound and the Bryston at the same time so it is difficult to determine how much improvement is due to each. For me the improvement was most noticeable at moderate to lower sound levels.

Regarding the sub, I use a y cable connector from the pre-amp with one cable connected to the power amplifier and one to the sub.

[curtis]

Regarding the sub, I use a y cable connector from the pre-amp with one cable connected to the power amplifier and one to the sub.
In this configuration you are sending the fullrange signal to both the speakers and the sub.....right?

[BOLTS]

Yes, the full signal goes to both. I have the crossover set quite low. It actually works quite well for music. The sub is really unnecessary but what the heck. It makes the bass a bit louder but does not materially improve on the Kappa bass. It does help when watching the occasional movie in the den.

[merrymaid520]

Thanks Bolts.

I will use the direct inputs on the p3 per your recommendation. As for the sub connection, I may see how things sound without and can try it later on.

It arrives tomorrow, looking forward to my first pre-amp!

[merrymaid520]

The p3 arrived and sounds good but there is a issue possibly related to my setup. I need to have the parasound at almost full volume(around 70 out of 80max) in order to get a decent amount of volume out of it.

To refresh my setup with the new Halo P3 is its running into a proceed amp3 running 150w / ch then into my sierras. The source is just a basic CD player for the time being until my new oop arrives.

My previous setup running the pre-outs of my yamaha into the amp3 then into the sierras was just fine......never needed to get close to max volume.

The biggest issue is at that high of volume setting on the pre-amp, when musics paused, the sierras emit a bunch of hiss/hummming which was never the case with the yamaha. The seller is indicating this is due to the lower power of the amp I am using and the 87db sensitivity of the speakers? He claims his friend who had the same preamp also had this issue with it.

What do you all think? The pre-amp operates just fine and sounds good but I run out of volume way to quickly and I dont listen that loud.

Brandon

[curtis]

Does not seem right to me. I would call Parasound.

Seems like there is a mismatch with output/input voltage somewhere.

[BOLTS]

I suggest e-mailing Parasound. I had a question once and it was answered by the engineer who actually designed the pre-amp. They are really helpful in troubleshooting problems.

[merrymaid520]

I did contact parasound and talked with the tech there. Based on the info I gave him, he concluded that this was the way the P3 was designed. He claims the volume/gain starts out very quiet and only gets quite loud toward the end of the volume adjustment.

He also said with less sensitive speakers, the higher this gain is set, the higher the noise floor will become.

I do believe him, and the P3 gets loud but I am at about 90% of full volume which is very strange to me.

In conclusion, its up for sale on good ol Audiogon. Its just not going to cut it plus I have my eye on a different one already anyway:) I really want a 2 ch pre with home theater bypass anyway.

Anybody want a used halo p3 less than a year old, mint condition?


Later,

Brandon

[BOLTS]

I don't buy that expalantion at all. 33 on the volume is about as loud as I can take. My kappa's in the den are similar sensitivity as the Sierra's so something is very wrong here. Do you have more than one source? If not try switching the cd player to another input. You might check to ascertain that the direct 1 select switch in in the unbalanced (right) position if using that input.

[merrymaid520]

Bolts,

I checked that the switch was correct and it was. I really dont have enough experience with pre-amps to know one way or another. I have someone local who wants to buy it already. I dont know whether to let him know or not? I dont want to hide anyhting but yet, maybe it is still working properly.

Plus it still has like 9 years of warranty left.

hmmm......

[davef]

I have to say that I don't buy the explanation either. If the noise level of the pre-amp increases (the hiss you hear) such that the balance of the noise floor to the source changes and shifts more towards noise (signal to noise ratio, which should be maintained regardless of gain level on the pre-amp) something is wrong....

The wattage rating of your amplifier (power) has nothing at all to do with this. The gain of your power amp might be low but I strongly doubt this since the amount of amplifier gain is fairly standard throughout the industry.

2 possibilities here:

1. Something is wrong with the pre-amp
2. The pre-amp has low-gain and in this case, it is not going to work for you.

Hope this helps!

[merrymaid520]

Thanks Dave.

I am a bit leary of the explanation too. Both the previous owner(well respected on audiogon) and the parasound tech both came to the same conclusions? The tech mentioned a low gain and he specifically said"if the pre-amp reaches the volume you need it to, then its just fine". He felt there was no concern that i was listening to the preamp at the levels I mentioned.

Maybe it just simply wont work in my setup?

I believe I have it sold anyway. Dave, any recomendations on 2 ch preamps to go with my sierras?

Thanks,
Brandon

[davef]

The tech mentioned a low gain and he specifically said"if the pre-amp reaches the volume you need it to, then its just fine". He felt there was no concern that i was listening to the preamp at the levels I mentioned.

In this regard, the tech is correct. There is nothing wrong with having the pre-amp volume control turned high. For example, in your previous setup, a volume control level of 25% might have delivered 3 volts to your power amp and with the new pre-amp, it might take a volume control level of 75% to deliver 3 volts. While amplifier gain is fairly standard, there are no standards with regard to pre-amp gain.

My concern was that you mentioned hiss became more evident when the volume on the pre-amp was turned up. If you heard this hiss without any music being played, that is normal, but if hiss became evident when music was being played when the gain of the pre was increased -- that is a flaw.


any recomendations on 2 ch preamps to go with my sierras?


More mainstream, but I have had good results with NHT and Rotel in the past.

[merrymaid520]

The hiss was only evident with no music playing. It sounded great when the music was on. So maybe the unit itself is operating correctly and i need to seek a preamp with a higher gain for my situation.

Thanks for the suggestions too!

always so helpful,

thanks Dave.

Brandon

[davef]

The hiss was only evident with no music playing. It sounded great when the music was on. So maybe the unit itself is operating correctly and i need to seek a preamp with a higher gain for my situation.

Always happy to help!

What you heard then is perfectly normal and I suspect the pre-amp is functioning as it should....

Have a geat weekend!

[merrymaid520]

Well good news,

I bought a used proceed "pre" pre-amp on a-gon. This should be a great fit with the proceed amp. It also has a surround sound processor bypass feature which allows it to integrate into a 5.1 setup.

Hopefully the gain on this preamp is designed a bit louder:) I imagine it will be because its an identical match to the amp.

I hope this ends my journey to improve my overall 2 ch performance with my sierras. I can't believe I will have the urge to upgrade both proceeds in the near future. Both amps & preamps don't change much in terms of new technology.

I will keep you all posted.

Brandon