New lossless HK receivers?

[Maniac_Matt85]

Hey, first time poster here. I have decided that my next speaker purchase will be through Ascend. :)

Now I've been having trouble finding a good receiver to fit my needs though. I am somewhat new to the audio tech world.

I'm aware that Ascends mate well with HK receivers, and I was pleased to see that Ascend offers packaging discounts when you purchase speakers along with a receiver. The only problem is that I really want a receiver that can handle DTS-HD MA and Dolby True HD (HDMI 1.3a).

Will Ascend sell the new HDMI 1.3a HK receivers (AVR 254 and AVR 354) when they are released? And for HK owners, how easy are HKs to get up and running for a newbie like myself?

Thanks!

Matt

[Sam1000]

Setting up HK is pretty easy(Isn't HDMI great?) . Their On Screen Display is very intuitive for set up.

What will you be using as a source so that HK can decode DTS MA?

[Maniac_Matt85]

Nothing as of yet. AFAIK there isn't much that can bitstream HD audio, cuz most the players decode the tracks internally and pass them as PCM.

IDK... Since my PS3 decodes TrueHD and will soon decode DTS HD (april 15th Firmware!!!) and my Tosh XA2 decodes TrueHD internally, I'm wondering how necessary it is for me to have a AVR that decodes these formats.

But.... Im concerned that later gens of blu-ray players will do away with internal decoding. That could leave me in the dust if I look to update.

Can anyone recommend a high quality HDMI HK that will accept HD audio as PCM?

[Sam1000]

Nothing as of yet. AFAIK there isn't much that can bitstream HD audio, cuz most the players decode the tracks internally and pass them as PCM.

IDK... Since my PS3 decodes TrueHD and will soon decode DTS HD (april 15th Firmware!!!) and my Tosh XA2 decodes TrueHD internally, I'm wondering how necessary it is for me to have a AVR that decodes these formats.

But.... Im concerned that later gens of blu-ray players will do away with internal decoding. That could leave me in the dust if I look to update.

Can anyone recommend a high quality HDMI HK that will accept HD audio as PCM?

I use hk 247 as pre-pro which does accept multi-channel PCM from PS3. This model did have LFE issues which were addressed with the latest firmware. If I were in your shoes, I would wait for HK254. Some online retailers are taking pre-orders now, but their pre-order price seems to be bit higher than street price.

I have also used 247 without an external amp. It does have a good sound qulaity and it goes well with Ascends..

[Maniac_Matt85]

Hey Sam I appreciate the help.

I was looking into the AVR 254 but it seems that it won't be out until July. Though there is no concrete release date yet. I was really hoping to get something set up by the end of next month. I'd to have everything up and running by the release of the new Rambo on Blu Ray. :D

I found an ID website has the 347 for a pretty good price. I'm thinking of jumping on it. But again the LFE issue, the PQ distortion, and other problems have made me hesitant.

I have been looking seriously into the Onkyo SR-705. The lip sync issue kind of scares me, but I have researched the 705 enough to know how to correct it. AVS has a really good FAQ on the 705.

Out of curiousity, I have noticed alot of people prefer to do as you have mentioned. (Use a receiver as a pre/pro and then have an external amp.) Do you recommend doing this? AFAIK the Onkyo has 100w x7. (Of course that is probably rated at 2ch, and the wattage would be much less when powering all channels). Nevertheless, shouldn't this be more than enough to power the ascends? What benefit do you gain by adding an external amp?

One last question... Don't know if you can help me with it or not. My space constraints limit me to a 5.1. If I am sending 7.1 DTS HD PCM to a 7.1 receiver, will it automatically downmix it to a 5.1 for me? Will it be degraded quality or still DTS HD MA?

Once again I appreciate the help.

[Sam1000]

You should be fine with 5.1. I do not think you would not lose quality of your 5.1 channels.
The main reason I'm using external amp, My room is pretty big and has large openings to dining room and kitchen. ALso, I listen to music and movies at relatively large volume level :-). Is it a significant improvement over 50w/ch HK? It could be psychoacoustics :-) I was pretty happy with HK itself, but then I saw an ad on Craigslist for used amp that I could not resist.

[robruffo]

Remember that any HDMI 1.2A or higher receiver that amplifies HDMI sound will do the job. You do not need the receiver to decode HD-audio internally - this is a useless feature.

I personally prefer Yamaha - more neutral. You can get an RX-661, or HTR-6060 for very small coin online. I've listened to much more expensive models and coudl not heard a difference, but then again, I can't go loud here.

My biggest gripe with Yamaha is no internal equalizer on lower models like mine. Then again, I use pure-direct and "straight" alot, with the equalizer off, and things sound exactly as they should - like symphony instruments sound very, very similar to live - maybe even identical on my Sierras. (Really amazing...) so if equalizer was there, I most likely woudl not use it anyway.

[Maniac_Matt85]

I was just looking at Yammies last night, and was very impressed. Both the 661 and 663 look very good. I think I would get the 663 though, simply because I read that the 661 won't upconvert a component signal to HDMI, meaning I would need to run component cables from wii-receiver and also another set for receiver-tv. Plus the 663 has a better amp in it.

Sam, I also have a large room with many openings. I am primarly HT, not alot of music, and I like to go loud as well. :) Perhaps I can benefit from an amp.

I have done some research on amps, but I can't seem to understand exactly what I would need. I know that the amp would hook up through the pre-outs on the receiver. If I am doing a 5.1 and would want to give extra juice to my LRC 340SEs, what kind of amps should I be looking for? I know the the basic function of an amp is to amplify, but I have never own nor seen an amp so I have no idea what I would need to do.

[robruffo]

No, teh 6060 will not upconvert component sources to the HDMI - it will only pass all anaolog sources through it's component output. A pain if you have a projector - but it will switch 2 HDMI sources.

With the 340se set-up I had here (and also with the Sierras) my ears hurt before I could hear any distortion. Personally, I don't think anything more after my 6060 is at all necessary.

I woudl also recommend doing an A/B on the two amps. I personally could not hear a difference.

[Maniac_Matt85]

I think I can get a 663 from JR for just about 100 more. This hundred more would also mean I wouldn't need a new component cable setup, because the 663 can have all my HDMI and component inputs output thru 1 HDMI to the TV. May be worth it, thanks for the advice.

It's a real pain trying to decipher which receiver will do what I want thru the mfg spec sheet. The words "HDMI repeater" and "HDMI switcher" carry different meanings for different mfgs. I've seen repeater advertised on an avr, only to read that it doesn't allow audio thru HDMI. IMO it would be alot more easier if they would state "HDMI Audio = Yes/Video = Yes". That would be so much simpler.

I'm know this is probably the most asked question but, In your opinion is the Sierra worth the jump from the 340SE? I can afford either, so $ is not the issue. But I am 99.9 % home theater, and I like to go loud. So I am really thinking that Sierra would actually not be the best thing for me. What's your take?

[robruffo]

If Sierras cost 5 times what they do, they'd still be worth it.

For HT you can "hear into" actor perfromances much more - like hear a slight strain in their voice, or a false lilt - that you can't as much with 340s - and that's not to knock the 340s. It's like HD, but for sound.

340s = 720p Sierras= 1080p

[MichaelG]

I think the Sierra's are worth the money. They seem to allow me to listen to movies louder without bothering my wife. She used to complain that there was too much noise. Now she will ask me to turn it up a couple of notches.

Michael

[Maniac_Matt85]

Thanks for the input. I'm pretty confident that I have decided on a receiver. The Yamaha V663. 95Wx7. Pretty sure this is plenty to feed either the 340s or the Sierras.


What are you guys doing for stands for the Sierras?

I'm aware that there is a guy who does custom stands but I have seen them and don't think that they would match with my equipment.

Is it completely impossible to use the TP24 stands used with the 340s for the Sierras?

Still debating between the Sierras and 340SEs though. My HT is in my living room which has many openings into everything and a very HIGH ceiling. I emailed DaveF yesterday but haven't gotten a response. Hopefully he can lay out a solid recommendation. But all the positive reports on the Sierras are leaning me toward them. I'm just concerned that with my 99HT/1Music preference and room space, that maybe the 340s would be better. I don't know.... I would like to place an order by next week though. So either way I'll be getting Ascend speakers! :D

[curtis]

Is it completely impossible to use the TP24 stands used with the 340s for the Sierras?

The TP24's work with the Sierras as well.

[Maniac_Matt85]

The TP24's work with the Sierras as well.

Really? Wow. I was unaware of that. Is the connection tight or will I need putty or some form of adhesive?

[curtis]

Really? Wow. I was unaware of that. Is the connection tight or will I need putty or some form of adhesive?
The interface is the same as the CMT-340SE since the footprint is the same. Using something like earthquake putty or blu-tac would certainly make things more secure.

The the finish of the TP24 doesn't match the Sierras though.

[davef]

Hi Matt,

Welcome to our forum!


Will Ascend sell the new HDMI 1.3a HK receivers (AVR 254 and AVR 354) when they are released?

Yes -- absolutely!


And for HK owners, how easy are HKs to get up and running for a newbie like myself?

Very simple if want them to be, or complex if you want to "tweak" to try to get every ounce of performance...

Seems like you have already received some great advice in this thread.

Please let me know if I can be of any assistance.

[MichaelG]

Matt, I am no expert but my understanding has been that you want the tweeters at seated ear level for best results. I started with the Sierras using the SP 30 stands, which placed the tweeters too high for my listening position. I am currently trying them with the 340m (TP24?) stands that my 340's were on and they are a tad low but seem to be a better choice and the Sierra's mount securely on them. The finish doesn't match but it doesn't stand out to me.

Also, I don't think you will go wrong with either speaker set. I was totally in love with my 340's and had I not had the opportunity to upgrade (and the money) would have been happy for years to come. That said, if you have the money, the Sierra's are the way to go.

Good Luck!

Michael