Sierra 2?

[mightymouse]

I have been reading about the 170 and the Sierra 1. The Sierra 1 looks very tempting. But I have been wondering, does Ascend have any plans for putting a 6.5" woofer into a Sierra class cabinet, sort of like a 170 on steroids?

The larger woofer would definitely add more punch on the low end.

[curtis]

I have been reading about the 170 and the Sierra 1. The Sierra 1 looks very tempting. But I have been wondering, does Ascend have any plans for putting a 6.5" woofer into a Sierra class cabinet, sort of like a 170 on steroids?

The larger woofer would definitely add more punch on the low end.
Have you heard the Sierra? IMO...it doesn't lack in the low end, in fact, it has more punch than some other respectable bookshelf speakers with 6.5" woofers.

[mightymouse]

No, I have not heard the Sierra-1. I am just curious if having a slightly larger woofer would make the Sierra sound even better.:)

[curtis]

No, I have not heard the Sierra-1. I am just curious if having a slightly larger woofer would make the Sierra sound even better.:)
It probably wouldn't just be a bigger woofer....it would have to be a bigger speaker overall....and bigger doesn't always mean better. :)

[davef]

Curtis is right. To get the same bass extension of the Sierra-1 with a 6.5", the cabinet would have to be considerably larger. It would be a different speaker altogether. The only aspect that would be guaranteed to be "better" would be efficiency, and even with that we could only expect perhaps 1 - 2dB higher efficiency. Efficiency has no relation to sound quality.

Hope this helps!

[mightymouse]

Thanks guys for all the helpful replies.

Learn something new everyday.:)

[sharpie2828]

just wondering if a Sierra floorstand speaker is in the works? With the new lines and development of speakers from "the other ID company", just wondering if ascend is going to offer a "high end" floorstander, a cut above the 340SE,(which IMO is great, i have a pair).

[davef]

just wondering if a Sierra floorstand speaker is in the works? With the new lines and development of speakers from "the other ID company", just wondering if ascend is going to offer a "high end" floorstander, a cut above the 340SE,(which IMO is great, i have a pair).

We have a few ideas we are tossing around at this point. I can't say for sure either way, but using this much bamboo is very problematic and absurdly expensive.

[openwheelracing]

May I make a couple suggestions (from a prospective buyer's point of view)?

MT and MTM floor standing options
Transmission line
MDF
Cheaper finish: oak veneer? painted satin black?

[robruffo]

One of the great things about a Sierra 1 is how fast the transient response is. A bigger woofer would likely only diminish that.

Why a floorstander? It's not like most floorstanders extend bass any more than the Sierra - they just take up more room.

I for one only wish Ascend made a subwoofer - this would save me a lot of research and shopping time, and I wish they offered more stand options - like a low center channel stand, and higher stands for Sierras and surrounds. I suggest they work something out with Jason Coleman, who makes beautiful bamboo stands for the Sierras.

The Sierra itself seems very difficult to improve on - then again that's what I used to say about the 340se :-)

[drewface]

I for one only wish Ascend made a subwooferi think there are a lot of us waiting for an ascend subwoofer announcement, especially since their sub page has had a "stay tuned" message for over a year, which i just noticed was updated to read:

"Seriously though, we very much look forward to making our much anticipated announcement regarding our plans for subwoofers for 2008 and beyond. Please be patient with us, these things take time."

this makes it sound like there is definitely something coming.

[jvillas]

I would like to see a Sierra mini monitor, perhaps not quite the bass extension. Possibly packaged with a dedicated subwoofer. All bamboo of course.

[tank418]

Hey dave can you show us any pictures on the new sub ? or what it might look like ?

[Mr.Lawrence]

How about a Sierra MTM center? That would be nice

[Mag_Neato]

Let's review our history:

1. Ascend introduces the CBM-170 to rave reviews; customers want a
floorstanding version; Ascend gives us the CMT-340 instead with the
option to mount on the pedestal stands to give them a tower "look".

2. Everyone wants a floorstanding version of the CMT-340; Ascend gives us
the Sierra-1; people are now itching for a Sierra floorstander.........!

Is there a pattern here? I think the next Sierra, the "-2", will be a different purpose speaker, perhaps a sub!?

[davef]

Hi Mag,


Let's review our history:

1. Ascend introduces the CBM-170 to rave reviews; customers want a
floorstanding version; Ascend gives us the CMT-340 instead with the
option to mount on the pedestal stands to give them a tower "look".

Actually, the 340 main was born from the 340 center, which is what the majority of our customers wanted back then (a dedicated center)


2. Everyone wants a floorstanding version of the CMT-340; Ascend gives us
the Sierra-1; people are now itching for a Sierra floorstander.........!"

The Sierra-1 is just the beginning... Like every other product I have ever introduced, these things take time.

Right now I am experimenting with a more workable form of bamboo that holds much promise. It actually costs more but might prove less expensive in the long run because it is easier to work with and more consistent.

[davef]

Hey dave can you show us any pictures on the new sub ? or what it might look like ?

Sorry -- we are not at this point yet. Many things are still up in the air and nothing has been finalized as of yet.

[JasonColeman]

Right now I am experimenting with a more workable form of bamboo that holds much promise. It actually costs more but might prove less expensive in the long run because it is easier to work with and more consistent.
I actually found the Plyboo brand of bamboo (which, if I'm not mistaken comes from the same source as the material Ascend uses) a pleasure to work with. Of the 22 or so sheets of mostly 3/4" I worked through, I had an incredibly low occurrence of tearout or splintering and found the material to be consistent in coloration, density, and workability. I'm sure that whoever is building your cabinets is going through hundreds of sheets, but I found that the Plyboo is in fact a lot easier to machine and finish than most other plywoods.

Jason

[davef]

Hi Jason,

The very first bamboo material we experimented with was actually the plyboo you mention. Unfortunately, this did not have the same acoustic properties as the solid vertical grain we use now, possibly because of the horizontal grain layer (which I am not a fan of).

We have our hands on something a bit different. I can't really talk much about this now but if I like it, you can be sure I will be discussing it here :D

[tank418]

We Want A Sub !!!!!! We Want A Sub !!!!!!! We What A Sub !!!!!!!! Need I Say More !!!! :)

[drewface]

just out of curiosity, if this new bamboo material you are experimenting with turns out to be good, would it replace the material currently used in the sierra-1, or would it only be used in newer products? and if it would be used for the sierra-1 as well, would this cause a slight name change to the sierra to signify the change in material?

[davef]

We Want A Sub !!!!!! We Want A Sub !!!!!!! We What A Sub !!!!!!!! Need I Say More !!!! :)

I take it that you want an Ascend subwoofer, huh? :rolleyes:


just out of curiosity, if this new bamboo material you are experimenting with turns out to be good, would it replace the material currently used in the sierra-1, or would it only be used in newer products? and if it would be used for the sierra-1 as well, would this cause a slight name change to the sierra to signify the change in material?

I am not sure at this point... the change (if it were to happen) would be transparent. We have, in fact, already gone through (3) different bamboo suppliers. The material is basically the same but it is manufactured in a new way.

I think the majority of you would be very pleased if you knew what projects are in the works - but ask any longtime Ascend customer, I will not be discussing these until I am fully satisfied and production is underway. All I will say is that without question, I have been listening to all of you ;)

[DougMac]

The discussion of Plyboo piqued my interest. I did a little internet research. I couldn't find many suppliers, but when I did it was an eye opener.

I'm used to paying ~$20 for a sheet of MDF, ~$50 for a sheet of birch or oak ply. The prices I found for a sheet of Plyboo was ~$250!

That may help put Sierra's in perspective.

Doug

[openwheelracing]

..............I have been listening to all of you ;)

Including me? :cool:

[JasonColeman]

The discussion of Plyboo piqued my interest. I did a little internet research. I couldn't find many suppliers, but when I did it was an eye opener.

I'm used to paying ~$20 for a sheet of MDF, ~$50 for a sheet of birch or oak ply. The prices I found for a sheet of Plyboo was ~$250!

That may help put Sierra's in perspective.

Doug
Yeah..welcome to the pricey party! I paid $230/sheet plus freight shipping to get 3/4" Plyboo shipped to my house from our nearest supplier, which was Eco Supply in Richmond, VA. Awesome place...father and son startup with all kinds of products and ideas and solutions to make the world a bit greener...01/20/09 comes to mind, though it'll take more than a Son & Pop to get it done...

[GirgleMirt]

We need a FAQ. (for the why no MTM Sierra, etc)


Have you heard the Sierra? IMO...it doesn't lack in the low end, in fact, it has more punch than some other respectable bookshelf speakers with 6.5" woofers.

For the life of me I can't understand why it has better punch than even some floorstanders. Few weeks ago we had an audio trade show in Montreal, I was more than a bit disappointed by a few of the systems... Even some floorstanders rated 30hz with double 7 inch bass woofers, costing significantly more than the Sierra, seemed to have less punch. (no level match not even A/B though, just my recollection of wow, this speaker has no punch..).

Hoping I'm not opening a can of worms, but how can that be? Dynaudios seem to have that punch, or another bookshelf also surprised me, the ProAc D2 http://proac-loudspeakers.com/dtwo.php, also was able to deliver the punch similarly to the Sierra (though it costs what... 3000$?), but it's surprising how many speakers lack that punch...

Anyhow, always interesting to hear a lot of different speakers, always somewhat highlights imho the fact that most speakers are simply tradeoffs. Good at something, bad at others... Best performance ends up being average of all the traits... Sierra does this very well. 'Super' speakers sometimes don't even seem to do that...

Larger, more costly, also really doesn't equate better sound. The $150000 Kef Muon was there. It was one of the most crowded room. http://www.kef.com/products/muon/ It sounded ok. Really nothing special. In a room right beside, was a Wilson system, either Sophias or Puppy8, with subs, and it was mostly empty, it did not look as impressive, but if all of the participants were blind, I'm sure there would have been a lot more people listening to the Wilsons than the Muon... Or Dynaudio had their 30 year anniversary Saphires, for a tenth of the price of the Muon, they sounded fabulous.

Pierre Gabriel was also a 'giant' speaker with big price which really, makes you wonder about big vs small speakers. http://www.stereotimes.com/images/JadisKey.jpg I'm 100% sure you could make a 2 way speaker costing 10 times less with the exact same drivers, put it in the same room, and would have ended with a better sound... Ok maybe not play as loud, but basically all two ways can handle normal listening levels, and even above. Huge speakers for huge rooms, normal speakers for normal rooms is my advice. When you stick big speakers in normal/small rooms, always seems like a waste to me, and for some reason most often than not simply does not sound that great...

Verity Audio was once again, truly excellent. http://www.verityaudio.com Great speakers, I don't know how Kef can try to sell the Muon for 150000$ when such excellent speakers as Verity Audio costs less (I'm guessing!)...

The end sound you can get with 'small' bookshelfs, Sierra, ProAcs, Harbeth, etc. often really rivals some of the much more expensive floorstanders.

Ok enough rambling... Btw, Ascend should really participate to some of these shows, it would be a hit I'm sure.

[mightymouse]

Nice to read all the input in this thread!

In terms of materials, someone mentioned Wilson audio. I read somewhere that Wilson audio uses some special kind of polymer for their cabinets, making their cabinets very non-resonant. Can Ascend try something along that line?

And in terms of bookshelves that dig deep, the one that immediately comes to my mind is the Totem Manni 2. The Manni 2 uses 6.5" dynaudio woofers stacked back to back, this is what gives Manni 2 that amazing bass response. But this configuration also means that a very powerful amp is needed to make the Manni 2 sing.

And oh, I like the soft dome tweeters used in Ascends. I can't stand metal dome tweeters.

Anyways, just throwing out some ideas.:D

[Mike^S]

I'm pretty sure that the material Wilson uses is VERY expensive.

[DougMac]

Nice to read all the input in this thread!

And in terms of bookshelves that dig deep, the one that immediately comes to my mind is the Totem Manni 2. The Manni 2 uses 6.5" dynaudio woofers stacked back to back, this is what gives Manni 2 that amazing bass response. But this configuration also means that a very powerful amp is needed to make the Manni 2 sing.

And oh, I like the soft dome tweeters used in Ascends. I can't stand metal dome tweeters.


In addition to having to pony up for the muscle to drive them, I did some research and found the Mani-2 is more than 4x expensive as the Sierras.

It's interesting that we're discussing much more esoteric and expensive manufacturers when comparing Sierras. I went to the Wilson web site. I got some perspective when I saw they quoted Absolute Sound reviews.

Doug

[GirgleMirt]

Nice to read all the input in this thread!

In terms of materials, someone mentioned Wilson audio. I read somewhere that Wilson audio uses some special kind of polymer for their cabinets, making their cabinets very non-resonant. Can Ascend try something along that line?

You mean like bamboo? :confused: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=2597&highlight=sierra

[DaveHo]

An M-T-M Sierra would get my attention.

[azanon]

Sorry -- we are not at this point yet. Many things are still up in the air and nothing has been finalized as of yet.

I wonder how many of these VIP turkeys (said with love) who live near you get to come in the "secret room" without their digital cameras, of course!

[tank418]

a sub would get my ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!!

[davef]

I wonder how many of these VIP turkeys (said with love) who live near you get to come in the "secret room" without their digital cameras, of course!

Ha --- too many I am afraid. While I am good at keeping things hush hush with regard to online chatter etc, our warehouse and engineering area is a mess -- prototypes everywhere I am afraid.

Come visit :D

[davef]

a sub would get my ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!!

......... ;)

[merrymaid520]

Ha --- too many I am afraid. While I am good at keeping things hush hush with regard to online chatter etc, our warehouse and engineering area is a mess -- prototypes everywhere I am afraid.

Come visit :D

An excuse to get back to CA. My wife and I visited Temeculah last summer and loved it.......too much excellent wine I'm afraid:)

Careful about the invite, you might have 20 people knocking on your door in the morning wondering what Dave has cooking:eek:


Enjoy your weekend all,

Brandon

[azanon]

Ha --- too many I am afraid. While I am good at keeping things hush hush with regard to online chatter etc, our warehouse and engineering area is a mess -- prototypes everywhere I am afraid.

Come visit :D

Man I'm so envious of someone like you because of your cool job. I wish I had the know-how to basically "invent" such awesome products that are arguably in some ways, second-to-none. It's gotta be pretty cool to see your invention shipping out in droves. I could easily see how your success would drive you to constantly want to "one-up" yourself!

Oh well. I'll just have to live with being one of the many recipients of Ascend speakers. On the schedule for tonight; A blu-ray movie recorded and played in DTS HD Master played via a PS3/Marantz 7002 and a full compliment of Ascend speakers/HSU sub. Life is rough! ;-)

[davef]

Careful about the invite, you might have 20 people knocking on your door in the morning wondering what Dave has cooking:eek:

Well, at least give us a few days notice so we can at least clean up :p


Man I'm so envious of someone like you because of your cool job. I wish I had the know-how to basically "invent" such awesome products that are arguably in some ways, second-to-none. It's gotta be pretty cool to see your invention shipping out in droves. I could easily see how your success would drive you to constantly want to "one-up" yourself!

Don't be... I have to say that I love the engineering aspect but the dark side of this industry and all the BS eats at me every day of the week. I have to say that I envy you -- the ability to kick back and simply enjoy audio with no thoughts of "hmmm, I should have done this" "why didn't I do that" "that could sound better" becomes a bit obsessive with me and takes away from the enjoyment. You know what they say, "Grass is always greener..."


Oh well. I'll just have to live with being one of the many recipients of Ascend speakers. On the schedule for tonight; A blu-ray movie recorded and played in DTS HD Master played via a PS3/Marantz 7002 and a full compliment of Ascend speakers/HSU sub. Life is rough! ;-)

Ha -- A Barney DVD is on in my living room right now (for my youngest), followed by an episode of Ben 10 for my son's turn. The wife and I have been trying to watch "No Country For Old Men" for the past week, by the time the kids are done and in bed, one of us usually passes out. Maybe tonight....

I just don't get this Barney thing...:confused:

[azanon]

Ha -- A Barney DVD is on in my living room right now (for my youngest), followed by an episode of Ben 10 for my son's turn. The wife and I have been trying to watch "No Country For Old Men" for the past week, by the time the kids are done and in bed, one of us usually passes out. Maybe tonight....

I just don't get this Barney thing...:confused:

LOL.

I hear "No Country For Old Men" is great. It's in my Netflix queue for sure. I'm behind myself on movies - 49 in the queue and constantly rising!

[muzz]

I would like to see a Sierra mini monitor, perhaps not quite the bass extension. Possibly packaged with a dedicated subwoofer. All bamboo of course.

Sealed for the wall mount crowd- matching perfectly.

[scape]

it'd be interesting to see a 3 way mini-tower...but to say sierra-2 already...well that's just a bit too early :D

i second the mtm center sierra as well as some new satellites
to get into the sub business is a whole new devil, no? i mean look where it's heading now? midbass and subbass subs, just to provide the perfect fill. soon we'll have two way subs that fit behind the whole tv unit!
hey...that's not too bad sounding