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View Full Version : AMP Selection very CRITICAL!!



Jugdish
03-01-2008, 03:22 PM
Want to share my story so that others can avoid the issues I had when I first got my Sierra's..........My original setup was a Rotel RX-1052 integrated amp/receiver, and a Rotel RDV-1060. I couldn't WAIT to get the sierra's hooked up. Well, Sierra's came, and disappointment set in. I couldn't understand the rave reviews these speakers were getting, because they just sounded ok to my ears, nothing special. I thought I was nuts so neighbors came to listen and they agreed, good speakers, not great. The mids and highs were crisp and detailed, but the bass was very punchy and seemed to easily bottom out, and when tweaked through the Rotel, they just ended up sounding sterile. I thought I was going to be the first one to return a pair of Sierra's.

I wrote to Dave, and he gave some good feedback which lead me to add a sub. I added an Earthquake Sound Minime 8" sub which really added to the low end. However, the fact that all the reviews talked about how great these speakers were, even with suprising bass, just ate away at me.
Well, I started the search for an integrated amp with bass management to see if I could take the work off of the speakers for the low end and let them focus on mids and highs. I came across Outlaw Audio's RR2150.

The Outlaw offered everything I needed including a sub out with selectable crossover points. They have a 30 day no risk trial so I figured what the hell. The Outlaw arrived and I went to hook it up only to find it was 1/2" too deep for my built in cabinets.......damn. So I get longer cables and just hook the amp up outside the cabinet. I pop in Sarah Mclachlan's surfacing CD, set the crossover to 80, and................HOLY SH!T! THIS IS WHAT I HAD BEEN WAITING FOR. The Sierra's sounded simply stunning. I picked up the phone and told my neighbor to come over, that he wouldn't believe that the Rotel amp was the weak link in the chain. Well, he was stunned as well.

With the Sierra's hooked up to the Outlaw, the entire lower end was detailed, and pure, not the least bit punchy and no bottoming. We proceeded to throw everything we had at the Sierra's from Pussycat Dolls "Hot Like Me" to Warren G's "Regulate" (two tracks with serious bass). The kicker was we bypassed the bass management and let the speakers handle the full range of the amp. We both sat there totally stunned. For whatever reason, the $900 Rotel integrated made these speakers sound like they came from Radio Shack. Hooking them up to the Outlaw, the difference was night and day. So now I am modifying my cabinet to fit the deeper Outlaw.

I wanted to share this with everyone, because I would have never thought that my Rotel receiver could have failed me like this. Afterall, Rotel is a highly respected, and storied hi-fi electronics manufacturer. Well, I am here to tell you that price does not necessarily mean you are getting better equipment. I'm not knocking Rotel, but as far as the Sierra's are concerned, it's not a good match.

I was very close to returning the Sierra's and am so glad that I sought out David's advice. I can honestly tell you that with the right equipment (not necessarily expensive, as the Outlaw RR2150 ran $650), the Sierra-1's are hands down the best speakers you will currently hear for under $1000.....period.

My Rotel is headed to E-bay!

davef
03-01-2008, 09:02 PM
Hi Brian,

This is really an interesting progression. I am almost wondering if something was not quite right with the Rotel, since the speakers were bottoming with this unit but not with the Outlaw, even when being run full range.

In your emails to me, you were really pushing the speakers to very loud levels. Are you still able to achieve these same loud levels with the Outlaw running full range yet without bottoming?

It almost seems like the Rotel had a loudness contour option turned on. I have generally had good results with Rotel through the years but I have no exerience with the RX-1052. I should say that I have had quite a few customers report excellent results with Outlaw gear :)

debo
03-02-2008, 06:55 AM
Brian,

I have a Rotel RX-1056 and love it! Since I bought the Seirra's I listen to two channel music full range no sub for all my music and the bass is full and detailed. Everyone who has heard my setup falls in love with the sound.

Well at least now you love the Seirra's.

Jugdish
03-02-2008, 06:58 AM
I thought the same thing about the Rotel, so I took it into the dealer last week. They did some diagnostics and hooked it up to other speakers and gave it a clean bill of health. What I didn't share with you in the emails was that with the Rotel, the bass just didn't seem right at any volume level, always punchy. The Rotel dealer kept blaming the smaller woofer of the Sierra's. I'm glad I didn't take their conculsion to heart.
I have always had good luck with Rotel home theater gear, but for some reason the 1052 was a bust. My jaw still hurts from hitting the ground upon hearing the Sierra's through the Outlaw!

GirgleMirt
03-02-2008, 08:10 AM
What is wrong with punchy bass?! :confused: You actually want the bass to be tight and punchy, not boomy and flobby... What is conculsion? Concussion you mean? Again, you want speakers to have that sort of good transient response, drums for example should have an instant "THUD"... But maybe you were hearing distortion?

The specs of the outlaw seem better than the Rotel. I'd have liked to see damping factor of the two.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html
http://www.rotel.com/NA/Products/ProductDetails.htm?Id=40

Anyhow, interesting to read :) I had made a thread about how the Sierras sound/improve with different amplifiers but I think I got absolutely no answers...

Any others have any experience with different amps with Sierras? I have a 35 watts Rega Brio which I haven't yet tried with the Sierra, but I don't really see how that could improve over a QSC 1450 (~260 watts) so haven't bothered so far. The Outlaw looks like an interesting unit!

Jugdish
03-02-2008, 10:05 AM
When I say punchy, I mean the bass didn't sound natural with the Rotel. It was like the the lower end was emphasized even with the bass gain at 0. At normal listening levels, I had the Rotel set to -2 on the bass setting. The higher the volume went, the more downward adjustment I had to make on the Rotel's bass setting. The entire soundstage improved with the Outlaw, not just the bass. Don't know what to make of it other than the fact that I love these speakers with the Outlaw. Interestingly, I am able to play them louder with the Outlaw vs. the Rotel with much better results.

davef
03-04-2008, 01:17 AM
I wonder if the Rotel had one of the left/right output channels out of phase? I have seen this before... It can easily slip past QA testing and can really muck up bass performance. You would need a qualified technician to test for this.

Either way, I am very pleased that you are enjoying the Sierra-1 with the Outlaw. We have lots of very happy Outlaw customers.

azanon
03-12-2008, 07:22 AM
I also would prefer to believe that the Rotel you had either had something wrong with it, or something wasn't hooked up right. I just spend 1K on a Marantz SR7002 that I hope is not only "just adequate" to drive a Sierra-1, but also will make Sierra's sing beautiful music. I'd like to eventually upgrade my 340SE L/R.

A lot of folks are buying SR7002's and then adding a separate amp, but I'd prefer to not spend that kind of money if it isn't necessary. Any speaker that my $1399 retail receiver cant operate properly is just not going to be for me.

Jugdish
03-12-2008, 07:41 AM
I had the Rotel checked out before I sold it on ebay, and it was given a clean bill of health. Don't know what else to say..........Couldn't have been hooked up improperly, because I switched polarity on both speakers looking for a fix.

azanon
03-12-2008, 07:56 AM
Hmm, now I'm starting to wonder if I should have ponied up for the SR8002 with the Toroidal Power Transformer.

Jugdish
03-12-2008, 08:15 AM
May have just been how that particular Rotel sounds with the Sierra.

Harry
03-24-2008, 02:01 PM
Hi all,
I am getting set to pull the trigger on a new home theatre, but am a little concerned about the amp matching mentioned here. I was going to get the sierras across the front with possibly in ceiling speakers for the surrounds (7.1). I haven't decided on a sub yet, possible an SVS. My selection for the amp was going to be a Pioneer Elite 94. Does anyone have any experience with this amp and the sierras?
Thanks

Jugdish
03-24-2008, 02:40 PM
this is where the 30 day trial period will come in handy............

davef
03-25-2008, 07:12 PM
Hi all,
I am getting set to pull the trigger on a new home theatre, but am a little concerned about the amp matching mentioned here. I was going to get the sierras across the front with possibly in ceiling speakers for the surrounds (7.1). I haven't decided on a sub yet, possible an SVS. My selection for the amp was going to be a Pioneer Elite 94. Does anyone have any experience with this amp and the sierras?
Thanks

Hi Harry,
I am a fan of Pioneer Elite receivers and the VSX-94 is no exception. It is an excellent receiver. Actually, I can't recall a customer ever expressing any complaints regarding the line of Elite receivers.. PLENTY of power for our Sierra-1 :D No concerns at all...