Audyssey thinks HTM-200SE is large?

[azanon]

I just "installed" my new Marantz SR7002 this weekend. My first run through audyssey resulted in the test deciding that my 340SE L/R and my center HTM-200SE were "large" (full-range) speakers. The test found my surround and surround back (HTM-200 regular) to be "small".

I just found that interesting and was curious if this is what I should have expected from audyssey. I switched them all back to small though since I'd rather not lose any bass and want to route 80hz or less to my VTF-2. The Marantz doesn't allow individual speaker crossover settings like my old H/K 140 did.

[curtis]

That happens with many of the auto calibration/eq systems due to bass reinforcement that comes with speaker placement.

[azanon]

That happens with many of the auto calibration/eq systems due to bass reinforcement that comes with speaker placement.

So is that generally a good thing (bad, or neither) that my speakers are passing as large? I do have a lot of unintentional sound treatment in the room (carpeted, lots of fabric furniture, thick fabric wavy drapes over the window).

Also, is the general consensus to ignore audyssey when it does that and set them to small anyway if they're not technically full range speakers?

[curtis]

I don't know what the right thing is to do, but I would set them to small.

[Gov]

I agree, set them to "small"

[mziegler]

The large setting is actually based on your receiver, and the fact that THX crossover is 80hz. It is arbitrary. In other words, you should absolutely set your speakers to small.

[azanon]

The large setting is actually based on your receiver, and the fact that THX crossover is 80hz. It is arbitrary. In other words, you should absolutely set your speakers to small.

You were a little too brief for me to understand your point.

It was the audyssey process that took the measurements that resulted in a "large" setting for the HTM-200SE, even if it was the receiver that made the final call, so to speak. Also, if the THX crossover at 80hz were the factor, then they'd all be set to small since, as you said, THX calls for crossover at 80hz and there's no such thing as full range speakers from the THX perspective.

In any event, I'm convinced of the punchline i'm hearing from everyone; set the HTM-200SE to small. Done.

[davef]

In any event, I'm convinced of the punchline i'm hearing from everyone; set the HTM-200SE to small. Done.

Correct -- definitely set them to small, 80Hz should work well. Auto-EQ systems (like audyssey) often report the wrong results.

[mziegler]

According to Chris, the Audysessy (executive? owner?) who posts at AVS, the decision about large and small is made by the receiver, not Audyssey. He said he would prefer it if this decision was not made by the receiver at all.

I have found the thread at avs pretty interesting. I'm not very good at explaining this stuff, but getting it right is very easy, so I don't sweat it.

[azanon]

According to Chris, the Audysessy (executive? owner?) who posts at AVS, the decision about large and small is made by the receiver, not Audyssey. He said he would prefer it if this decision was not made by the receiver at all.

That's odd because my Marantz SR7002 manual (PDF available at their website) on page 6 says the "Audyssey Multi-EQ" makes the decision whether speakers are "satellites, full range, or subwoofers". It also says the Audyssey multi-eq decides on the crossover point for satellites.

It clarifies at the bottom "Audyssey Multi-EQ" is a trademark of Audyssey Laboratories, Inc. thus clarifying any potential argument that would potentially claim that that "multi-EQ" means my receiver.

Did someone bring up this inconsistency with Chris in the AVS thread, or should I go bring it up? ;-) Sounds like a case of passing the buck on a problem with their technology.

I'm guessing the trusty Radioshack sound decibel level meter and a tape measure to measure speaker distance (for delay) are still hard to beat.

[mziegler]

The fact is that my Integra and Denon 2807 labelled the same speakers differently says it is the receiver manufacturer. Trust me when I say that it makes no difference whatsoever--if your speakers are not full range then you will set them to small. Nothing else will be affected.

Audyssey does set the crossovers, but you can override these settings.

I think the thread is worth reading, and Chris does deal with this issue in detail numerous times.

I found the Audyssey distance settings for the speakers remarkably accurate, except for the sub. I forget the reason for this, but it is clear from the thread that it doesn't really matter with the sub. I recommend you run audyssey then confirm with your own measurement. I also level matched the speakers before I ran audyssey at 75 or 80 dB--the settings can get screwed up of the sub is not loud enough.

It is probably easy to switch back and forth between audyssey and your own setting on your receiver. I recommend you do some comparative listening. I and Curtis think audyssey made a big improvement in my room, but there are people who do not care for it in their homes.

[azanon]

The fact is that my Integra and Denon 2807 labelled the same speakers differently says it is the receiver manufacturer. Trust me when I say that it makes no difference whatsoever--if your speakers are not full range then you will set them to small. Nothing else will be affected.

All I was saying was that if you look at that part of my manual, you can see that Marantz basically inserted a description of Audyssey multi-EQ that was drafted specifically by Audyssey. It wasn't Marantz's interpretation of what Audyssey was saying, in other words. So at some point, Audyssey took the position that their test was, among many things, making the decision of satellite, vs full range vs sub. It seems they've changed that position somewhere along the way.

Of course in the end I'll set them to small. It is curious to know specifically what's going on there. For instance, I'd bet (without asking them) that Marantz wouldn't be jumping for joy if they were to discover that Audyssey, Inc. is (now) blaming them, albeit inadvertently, for this error in the process.


Audyssey does set the crossovers, but you can override these settings.

Yeah I know. I was a little disappointed that my retail $1399 Marantz doesn't allow individual crossover settings. Oh well.


I think the thread is worth reading, and Chris does deal with this issue in detail numerous times.

I've been meaning to read it. Now I feel its more important that I do so since my manual which copied Audyssey text is saying one thing and "Chris" is (now?) saying another.


I found the Audyssey distance settings for the speakers remarkably accurate, except for the sub. I forget the reason for this, but it is clear from the thread that it doesn't really matter with the sub. I recommend you run audyssey then confirm with your own measurement. I also level matched the speakers before I ran audyssey at 75 or 80 dB--the settings can get screwed up of the sub is not loud enough.

I've been meaning to do this. Its hard to find the time when I have the house to myself minus the noise makers. The wife averages 60 dB; 95db if i pi$$ her off, and my 4 year old boy is probably 70-75db average. All of these are bad for the audyssey test.

I already tried asking the wife to leave the room one. That just resulted in the decibel level rising too instead of going down.

[mziegler]

I also find it difficult to get a quiet house.

I am pretty useless with technical issues, so even when I know what to do I'm bad at explaining the why. Chris does, however, do a good job.

[mattopia]

Curious what people are using for the Sierra-1's via Audyssey. My Denon avr-787 detected them as "large" and I think that's reasonable.

[azanon]

Chris's opinion is that virtually all loudspeakers should be configured as "small". Putting Sierra-1's as large is probably as you say; a reasonable choice....... But not the best choice.

If the Sierra-1 does better bass in the 20-60hz region than your sub, chances are you ...... need a new sub. Not only that, but just taking the stress off of both the receiver as well as the Sierra's to have to play that low bass makes crossing over to a sub probably a stronger choice.

[mattopia]

If the Sierra-1 does better bass in the 20-60hz region than your sub, chances are you ...... need a new sub. Not only that, but just taking the stress off of both the receiver as well as the Sierra's to have to play that low bass makes crossing over to a sub probably a stronger choice.

I run subless. The sierra's have been more than adequate for me in the lower end, so I just haven't felt the need. I'd loose some of that low end if I switched from "large", but will likely go to a higher crossover point if I ever introduce the sub.

[azanon]

I run subless. The sierra's have been more than adequate for me in the lower end, so I just haven't felt the need. I'd loose some of that low end if I switched from "large", but will likely go to a higher crossover point if I ever introduce the sub.

I hear they're beautiful sounding speakers when run full range, so in the case of Sierra's, I don't think its anything major one way or the other.

Being more into Home Theater, it means something to me for "positioning" to be as accurate as possible, but they say when you get in those really low frequencies you can't identify the position. Of course I have to take that with a grain of salt since, at least in my house, I'd have no problem at all identifying the location of my sub if someone were to move it while I was blindfolded and I was asked to point out where it is. And to be clear, I think I could do it even with 40hz tones or lower. * shrug *