I may be interested in Ascend speakers...

[TJHUB]

I currently have B&W 602.s3 (mains), LCR600.s3 (center), Speakercraft (in-wall surrounds, and an SVS 20-39 PC+ sub. I've recently (2 weeks ago) upgraded my electronics to include an Emotiva MMC-1/IPS-1 pre-pro/amp combo and an Oppo 980H universal player.

I have a large room (18' x 25' with a 9' x9' foyer, 15' high catherdral ceiling, and a large opening to my dining room. I don't really consider the room bright, but there are a lot of windows with aluminum mini blinds and bare wall space. It's carpeted and full of furniture as well.

I'm not completely sure why, but I've had the itch to change my speakers. I've always appreciated the sound of my B&W's and I've been a B&W owner for about 13 years now. Until just recently I felt the B&W's were a little too harsh in the bottom end of the tweeters. I'm a Nine Inch Nails fan and playing their music was very unpleasant. I was feeling that unless I listened to jazz, classical or the like, my B&W's weren't up to the task. Then I start to also feel like the midbass output was lacking. Well that was until I started playing with my speaker placement. I've toned them down nicely now and things are really very satisfying for almost anything I throw at them. Midbass output is good as well. The sound stage is wide and high with great focus. I won't say I get the perception that my stage depth is any more than the 15' I sit away from the speakers themselves.

Still, I've been spending about 2 hours plus per day searching for info on speakers. I'm going to listen to some B&W 683's, CM7's, and 703's as well as some Paradigm Studio 40's and 60's this Friday. To be honest, I got a decent quote from the B&W dealer where I purchased my current speakers, but the Paradigm dealer is MSRP only so they won't get my business. If I decide I want the Paradigms, I have to find a different dealer farther away. I already have to go 60 miles for the closest speaker dealers.

I've researched the above listed speakers along with KEF, Rocket, PSB, and some others I can't remember. However, for the most part Ascend come up a lot in discussions and has peaked my interest.

I've been leaning towards tower speakers to improve midbass output, but I'm ok with the SVS blending in the bottom end. This is where Ascend comes in. The Sierra is obviously getting some incredible praise, but they seem VERY small. So small, I'm not certain I'd even see them in my room. This has me concerned that they just wouldn't be enough. I'm also not too fond of the finishes. Then there is the 340SE's. These seem to get a lot of love as well, but it seems most think the Sierra is much better overall.

I'm wondering if anyone (even from Ascend) can say that any of these Ascend speakers can out perform my B&W's for sonic performance, output, and staging. I'm mainly concerned about music, but home theater is important as well. But to me if a speaker makes me happy for music, it'll be more than adequate for movies.

To be clear, I'm looking for mains and a center only. I love to listen to set of Ascends, but I'd have to be fairly confident I won't want to send them back. I hate auditioning speakers in stores as it's very far from representative of how they'll sound in my room with my electronics.

What do you think?

[Galwin]

I don't think anyone can tell you that Ascend will perform better than the B&W. As a Sierra owner, I can tell you that you can expect to pay at least double their cost to get comparable performance. For example, I auditioned the Paradigm Studio and Signature models (among others) and to my ears, the Ascends compete quite well with the $2,000 Signature model. The Sierra's can also play quite loud. With a good sub you can fill a big room with no problem. I also like the look of the bamboo cabinet. They look even better in real life than in the pictures.

In my view, it's worth risking the shipping to audition the Sierra. After several months of listening I continue to be amazed at the depth and detail I can hear in my music collection. It's an amazing prodiuct.

[Pilk]

Not a direct comparison but I listened to some B/W 804???'s, book shelf speakers in a listening room at a B & M shop. I thought they were to harsh on the high end...fatiguing. I just didn't get it, not impressed. I also listened to some Veinna Mozarts book shelfs at Magnolia. Better but still didn't make me want to put any $$ down. I bought the Sierra-1's with the knowledge that I could return them if I didn't like them...no chance of that happening. I have my Sierra-1's in a acoustically terrible living room and I couldn't be happier. I will never look back. I am adding a sub to fill in the low end. I have been listening full range and can say most people will be content running full range, but from an old car audio idiot, I need some kick to make me smile.:D

[TJHUB]

Thank you for your comments guys. For a while there, I was starting to think there was no life here. :)

I don't really expect users to tell me if Ascends will be better. I was hoping that at least someone would say: "yes, with the return policy, you should absolutely try them." I got that...

I'm only on page 19 of the thread for Ascend SE owners on avsforum. I ran into a post from a guy who had B&W 602.s2's. It's funny, but I feel exactly the same as he does about the B&W's. Like him, when listening even last night, I just can't tell you anything the B&W's are doing wrong. They are incredible to listen to. I love Nine Inch Nails and since I've changed my speaker placement around, listening to Pretty Hate Machine is just plain fun! The music is like an adventure and sonics are wonderful (even the intended distortion sounds good ;)). I was listening to Prince song (can't remember which one because I have so much) on one of his jazz albums and I had to check my equipment to verify that I didn't have it in surround mode. Pretty weird. Sitting there I absolutely sourced sounds from my rear left at low volume. Center staging is near perfect, but that's always there unless the recording is bad. Anyway, like this other gentleman, I need to hear what I'm missing...maybe...

I also did a couple of stupid room brightness tests last night. I guess even though I don't hear a bright room when playing music, the tests I performed really show that my room is revealing. So I suppose the room is a little bright. Maybe the metal dome tweeters of the B&W's are on the bright side and Ascends will be "better".

I'm going to make my way through the rest of that thread on avsforum today/tomorrow. Right now I'm still really thinking while the Sierra is quite the little speaker, it's just that...little. Too little maybe. As such, at this moment I'm almost certain I'll be ordering the 340SE's. I think the "neutral" sound and dual 6.5" drivers may just fit the bill. I also just sold my basement speakers (a JBL 5 speaker surround setup) this morning, so even if I don't prefer the Ascends to my B&W's, I can just set them up in the basement if I'm compelled to keep them.

Still thinking...

[curtis]

The Sierras soundstage is at least as "big" as the 340SE's IMO. The difference is in ultimate output.

[tdogr]

Thank you for your comments guys. For a while there, I was starting to think there was no life here. :)

I don't really expect users to tell me if Ascends will be better. I was hoping that at least someone would say: "yes, with the return policy, you should absolutely try them." I got that...

I'm only on page 19 of the thread for Ascend SE owners on avsforum. I ran into a post from a guy who had B&W 602.s2's. It's funny, but I feel exactly the same as he does about the B&W's. Like him, when listening even last night, I just can't tell you anything the B&W's are doing wrong. They are incredible to listen to. I love Nine Inch Nails and since I've changed my speaker placement around, listening to Pretty Hate Machine is just plain fun! The music is like an adventure and sonics are wonderful (even the intended distortion sounds good ;)). I was listening to Prince song (can't remember which one because I have so much) on one of his jazz albums and I had to check my equipment to verify that I didn't have it in surround mode. Pretty weird. Sitting there I absolutely sourced sounds from my rear left at low volume. Center staging is near perfect, but that's always there unless the recording is bad. Anyway, like this other gentleman, I need to hear what I'm missing...maybe...

I also did a couple of stupid room brightness tests last night. I guess even though I don't hear a bright room when playing music, the tests I performed really show that my room is revealing. So I suppose the room is a little bright. Maybe the metal dome tweeters of the B&W's are on the bright side and Ascends will be "better".

I'm going to make my way through the rest of that thread on avsforum today/tomorrow. Right now I'm still really thinking while the Sierra is quite the little speaker, it's just that...little. Too little maybe. As such, at this moment I'm almost certain I'll be ordering the 340SE's. I think the "neutral" sound and dual 6.5" drivers may just fit the bill. I also just sold my basement speakers (a JBL 5 speaker surround setup) this morning, so even if I don't prefer the Ascends to my B&W's, I can just set them up in the basement if I'm compelled to keep them.

Still thinking...

If money is not a big issue, why not order a set of each to determine which you would like better.

[TJHUB]

If money is not a big issue, why not order a set of each to determine which you would like better.

I wouldn't say money isn't a big issue, but I'm not going to throw it around wastefully. :rolleyes:

I've basically already ruled out the Sierra's, so I'm thinking I'll just try the 340SE's and hope they're a winner. Ultimately if this doesn't work out, I'll go back to my plan of picking up some B&W 683's or CM7's and the appropriate center channel speaker. If I can't get an improvement from a bookshelf, then I'll just go floorstander and be done with it...

[tdogr]

I wouldn't say money isn't a big issue, but I'm not going to throw it around wastefully. :rolleyes:

I've basically already ruled out the Sierra's, so I'm thinking I'll just try the 340SE's and hope they're a winner. Ultimately if this doesn't work out, I'll go back to my plan of picking up some B&W 683's or CM7's and the appropriate center channel speaker. If I can't get an improvement from a bookshelf, then I'll just go floorstander and be done with it...

There is a thread over at avsforum.com that gave the Sierra's high praise from a get together involving several other speakers. The Sierra's came in second to Dynaudio Contour 1.4s which retail for about $3000. Start reading at post #131 if interested.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=982465&page=5

[TJHUB]

There is a thread over at avsforum.com that gave the Sierra's high praise from a get together involving several other speakers. The Sierra's came in second to Dynaudio Contour 1.4s which retail for about $3000. Start reading at post #131 if interested.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=982465&page=5

Thanks for the link, but I already was following that. I should have went as I'm only about a 50 minute drive from those guys. They all seem like really good guys too...

I'd love to try the Sierra's. I'm just very concerned they're just too small for my room. Maybe I'm wrong, but those things are a lot smaller than my B&W's and I'm thinking the B&W's are too small. Maybe I'm wrong and being a little stupid here, but sometimes size does matter. Doesn't it?

And don't think for 1 second that listening to those Sierra's isn't driving me nuts. EVERYONE that hears them thinks VERY highly of them. Now you're not helping either! :p

[curtis]

I just realized the size of your livingroom is about the same size as my Parent's. They currently use the older "classic" CMT-340's with no issues. I highly doubt the Sierras would have a problem, but I have not tried them over there because I don't think my Dad would let them go afterwards. :)

Maybe the guy that brought the Sierras to the GTG(merrymaid) will work with you to get a listen to them.

[jvillas]

Hi TJUB, you do have a large room. I have a friend who lives in a loft of similar size, possibly larger than yours. I don't know your listening pleasures,nor your l
listening habits(loud,soft,close to speakers or far away,rock,classical,jazz etc.).
Rather than trying to fill her whole space with sound she prefers a more intimate setting for music enjoyment.In her primary listening area is a 2.1 set-up. When she wants or needs more room filling sound(for parties), she just turns on a second pair of speakers. These are all bookshelf loudspeakers, and are more than capable of filling her room. There is also the added flexibility of easily changing the configuration of the set-up,this is a real plus for her. If there is a weakness in her system it is probably in the bass.I think a little more may be needed( that is just my personal taste). Sorry I cannot recall the brand of speaker she is using I just know they are Canadian.

I hope this helps you a little.

[merrymaid520]

tjhub,

I'm the person that brought the sierras to the GTG last week.

I live near mukwonago if you want to demo them? I am not sure where you are form, but its an open invite.

The sierras faired really well against the others at the GTG. Like tdogr said, other than the very expensive Dynaudio's, they were on top. When we first played them everyone walking into the room was blown away from the sound coming from the little bamboo speaker:) All had thought someone turned the sub back on!

Curtis, if anyone is looking to demo almost any line of ascends ( I own most all and just ordered the 200Se's yesterday), send them my way.

Take care,

Brandon

[jronne]

I picked a pair of the 340s 4 years ago and have been very happy.

The replaced a pair of DIY speakers from the 80's that where similiar to the b&w nautilus series with the cylinders, phase alignment and low phase shift and slope crossovers (they had a switchable extrnal crossover with high and low power points). These where great but had a very low WAF.

When I got the 340s and I did a side by side blind tests for a few days against a pair of larger KEFs that I also own and the speakers that I was replacing.

They where slightly better and more aesthetically pleasing than the low WAF cylinders being replaced.

I would say the speakers are reasonably efficient and relatively neutral.
Without subwoofer and L/R speakers only, they compared favorably to the larger sealed KEFs.
They an accurate and pleasant to listen too.
They are no overly bright or "tiring".
I would say that materials and drivers have steadily improved
After following speakers for 30 some odd years there is no definite correlation between price and quality.
It is very subjective and you just need to know your perferences and spend enough to get a quality speaker which these ascends are.

I use two massive 9 cubic subwoofers (again low WAF, these are probably going to be replaced by a single MFW-15 subwoofer) so the base extension of 340s is not an issue.

[TJHUB]

I just realized the size of your livingroom is about the same size as my Parent's. They currently use the older "classic" CMT-340's with no issues. I highly doubt the Sierras would have a problem, but I have not tried them over there because I don't think my Dad would let them ago afterwards. :)

Maybe the guy that brought the Sierras to the GTG(merrymaid) will work with you to get a listen to them.

Curtis:

I'm not sure that I'm even thinking about this the right way. Sure my room is big, I sit 15' from my speakers, but I'm just not sure how much or what exactly this affects. I almost think bass is what suffers most from a larger room than mids or highs. I'm starting to think that with my SVS sub, maybe it's not that big of an issue to use a slightly smaller speaker *IF* it's a capable one. I'm not sure, maybe I'm wrong...

Here (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41158) is a thread I started on audioholics regarding my Ascend interest. I'm really only linking this because of my auditions of some Paradigm's today. The B&W auditions didn't work out...

Here (http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi?board=preamps&action=display&thread=1185730919&page=8) is a link to a post at emotivalounge that shows my room and gear. The only thing I've changed since these pics is the toe on my B&W's. I have them about 3-5 degrees toed in from perpendicular to the rear wall. Things sound really good this way.


tjhub,

I'm the person that brought the sierras to the GTG last week.

I live near mukwonago if you want to demo them? I am not sure where you are form, but its an open invite.

The sierras faired really well against the others at the GTG. Like tdogr said, other than the very expensive Dynaudio's, they were on top. When we first played them everyone walking into the room was blown away from the sound coming from the little bamboo speaker:) All had thought someone turned the sub back on!

Curtis, if anyone is looking to demo almost any line of ascends ( I own most all and just ordered the 200Se's yesterday), send them my way.

Take care,

Brandon

Hey Brandon. I really wish I would have spoken up when Patrick posted to me on audioholics the week before that GTG. I would have loved to meet with you guys! I live in Manitowoc (about 70 or so miles North of Milwaukee - I even work in Sheboygan).

So besides the Sierra's, you have 340(SE)'s as well? If you have them all, maybe we should work something out. I really appreciate the offer. It would be nice to meet up with other audio enthusiasts as I know of only one other. No one I know really understands audio bliss. I feel very alone a lot!.

To everyone else: It's hard to decide between these two offerings from Ascend. Like the poster above this one, I've read so many posts from satisfied 340(SE) owners it's not funny. There have been many that owned Paradigm Studios and sold them to keep the 340's. This has me VERY curious about the sound. Now throw in all the love for the Sierra's and I'm confused. If the Sierra was bigger, no issue. Is it too small? Who knows?

A little about my listening habits: I listen to EVERYTHING but country music. I have an extensive and eclectic music collection. I listen to jazz mostly at home for sonic bliss (Fourplay, Peter White, Jean Luc Ponty, Dianna Krall, Sade, Patrica Barber, Prince (yes Prince - if you don't know his jazz efforts, you are missing out BIG TIME), but I also love Nine Inch Nails, Lenny Kravitz, Yo-Yo Ma, Tool, Tom Petty, Talking Heads, The Cars, Pink Floyd, Robert Plant, Led Zepplin, Clipse, Ludacris, Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Cold Play, The Cure, Linkin Park, Kid Rock, Godsmack, Evanescence, etc. That's just a few off the top of my head.

I don't listen to music very loud; just loud enough to be *clear*. I don't think that's loud, but my wife and kids think it's too loud. I'll pull out my db meter tomorrow and listen a what I consider to be too loud with the my sub off and post the sound level. I'm curious as well. I'm usually at about 85db in my car (I've got nice setup in my car) when running RTA's at high volume. I get near 95db with the sub in my car as I run it a little hot due to loss at highway speeds (I commute to work).

I'd like the speakers to be capable of making my hometheater "fun". I'm not sure how to quantify that. :D

[Mike^S]

Funny thing about playing music in the car. I too have whipped out my spl meter in the car to see how loud I was playing music, and to my surprise it was near 100dB, quite loud! At home, I'm rarely over 85dB.

I can think of a few reasons for this.

1) In a car, you have to overcome the sound of engine and traffic noise.
2) The speakers in my car are not that great, so I turn them louder to hear the music clearer. (With the Sierras, I don't have to turn them so loud, and you hear everything).
3) The faster I drive, the louder the music gets. :cool:

[TJHUB]

Funny thing about playing music in the car. I too have whipped out my spl meter in the car to see how loud I was playing music, and to my surprise it was near 100dB, quite loud! At home, I'm rarely over 85dB.

I can think of a few reasons for this.

1) In a car, you have to overcome the sound of engine and traffic noise.
2) The speakers in my car are not that great, so I turn them louder to hear the music clearer. (With the Sierras, I don't have to turn them so loud, and you hear everything).
3) The faster I drive, the louder the music gets. :cool:

I completely agree with you. You can't hardly understand words in the car at 85db when you're driving ~75mph (like I do every day). :D

I'll be running my db test a little later...

[merrymaid520]

TJHUB,

I just sold the 340SE's when I upgraded to the sierras. I still have a pair of 170's, 3 pairs of 170SE's, a 340c SE, the 3 sierras, and soon to be arriving HTM-200SE's. I have no problem letting others demo by stuff. Us enthusiasts are a unique group:)

You are quite a hike from me, but thats your call I guess.

Just let me know what you think.

Take care,
Brandon

[TJHUB]

TJHUB,

I just sold the 340SE's when I upgraded to the sierras. I still have a pair of 170's, 3 pairs of 170SE's, a 340c SE, the 3 sierras, and soon to be arriving HTM-200SE's. I have no problem letting others demo by stuff. Us enthusiasts are a unique group:)

You are quite a hike from me, but thats your call I guess.

Just let me know what you think.

Take care,
Brandon

To the best of your ability, can you describe the differences between the 340SE's and the Sierra's? Would it be your opinion that I should just try the Sierra's?

[TJHUB]

I just ran some loudness tests. I had to use my PAA2 RTA because I can't seem to locate me RS analog meter...

I've been paying attention to my volume number on my pre/pro so that I could reproduce the same listening levels I seem to normally be at when listening to music.

For these tests I left my high pass filter set at 70Hz and turned the sub off. I seem to listen at about 75-80db at my listening position to "sound clean and clear". I would consider my max to be almost 90db (this is where I've set the upper limit max on my pre/pro 2 weeks ago). 90db at my listening position seems to be about 103db at the speakers. My listening position is 15' from the speakers.

Sub back on, I see about 85db at my listening position for "clean and clear" sound and I saw about 95db at max volume.

What does this tell you?

BTW: My B&W's handle this without any signs of strain. They just play loud and clean.

[curtis]

I just did some quick measurements with my Radio Shack meter set at C weighting and slow response.

Those levels are pretty loud, but no problems with my setup.

[merrymaid520]

TJHUB,

I unfortunately did not do a direct A/B comparison with both sets but from memory/lots of listening time on each here are my thoughts:

The 340SE's played louder much easier-----more efficient
The sierras can keep up, but just need more juice.
The sierras have much deeper tighter bass(the most noticeable difference)
The sierras have better imaging & clarity.

Both are great speakers! For critical music listening the sieras would be my choice, for home theater/movies only, the 340SE's are more than adequate.

Hope this helps,

Brandon

[TJHUB]

TJHUB,

I unfortunately did not do a direct A/B comparison with both sets but from memory/lots of listening time on each here are my thoughts:

The 340SE's played louder much easier-----more efficient
The sierras can keep up, but just need more juice.
The sierras have much deeper tighter bass(the most noticeable difference)
The sierras have better imaging & clarity.

Both are great speakers! For critical music listening the sieras would be my choice, for home theater/movies only, the 340SE's are more than adequate.

Hope this helps,

Brandon

Thanks for the post.



I just did some quick measurements with my Radio Shack meter set at C weighting and slow response.

Those levels are pretty loud, but no problems with my setup.

Thank you for taking the time to get these readings. I'll admit after all of the reading I've done today, I am now thinking I may just order a pair of Sierra's. If I think they fit the bill, I'll order the matching center channel and wait until the upgrade bug bites again.

[TJHUB]

Ok, the search is over... All the indecision and stressing is going to stop...at least until I know if I love the new speakers or not. ;) I hope I'm happy with my desicion. :D

[Pilk]

Ok, the search is over... All the indecision and stressing is going to stop...at least until I know if I love the new speakers or not. ;) I hope I'm happy with my desicion. :D

I went through the same thing. I've gone through this a bunch with car audio. I switched out several sets of equipment over the years. Sometimes in rapid succession, finally finding what I was looking for. I hadn't swapped home equipment in 14 years, my old HT was subless, and not much good for HT. It was fine for music but rarely found the time to just listen. I went through the whole AVS forums as well as others, going back and forth. I had settled on the 340SE's when, at the last moment I couldn't shake the thought that I would probably be wanting to upgrade, or at least see what the Sierra's were like. I skipped the upgrade dilemma and went straight to the Sierra's and have no desire to go anywhere, I don't care is they come out with the Sierra-2, 3, 4 or5. I love these speakers. Enjoy. :D