Difference Between Ascend 170 and Axiom M3?

[jerry]

I've narrowed it down to these 2 speakers.They are both about the same price.What are the sonic differences between these 2 speakers. Thanks.

[curtis]

Sound wise, the Axiom that best compares to the CBM-170SE is the M22(3-4 years ago, some of us compared the classic 170 to the M22).

The major difference with the M3 is that it has some emphasis in the bass area. If you are not going to use subwoofer, you may appreciate the emphasis because it gives the perception of more bass.

[jerry]

What's the difference between the 2 tweeters.Axiom is a metal tweeter and Ascends is not.

[curtis]

What's the difference between the 2 tweeters.Axiom is a metal tweeter and Ascends is not.
Well...that is the major difference, they are different designs with different materials. As for sound, it is a matter of tastes.

[jerry]

I always hear that it's a matter of taste but I cannot afford to order both pairs of speakers to audition them so I'm trying to get some idea of the how these 2 speakers sound.Don't metal tweeters sound differently than soft dome tweeters?Thanks.

[curtis]

Don't metal tweeters sound differently than soft dome tweeters?Thanks.
That is a box of worms.....

In general, yes, there is, at least in perception, that there is a difference. But differences also come from how the tweeters are implemented. I have heard tweeters of all kinds and I don't think I could readily tell you what material the dome is and feel I was accurate.....maybe I could surprise myself, but I have never bothered trying.

Do you have any audio shops nearby where you can listen to various speaker types?

Maybe there is an Axiom owner or Ascend owner nearby that will have you over for a listen.

[GirgleMirt]

Well the Axioms are often commonly referred to as bright. Some say "they make their ears bleed", some say that they're not bright but just detailed, some say it's the aluminum driver ringing... So who knows, I've not heard them yet.

I think many say that soft dome tweeters sound like this, aluminum sound like that, but I'm very doubtful that most who make these claims could identify tweeter types under blind conditions. I think it's more of a psychosomatic reaction that people associate metal to harsh/bright and soft dome to more mellow sound... Though its true that metals drivers have a tendency to ring (http://www.google.ca/search?num=100&hl=en&q=speaker+metal+drivers+ringing&btnG=Search&meta=) if they're not integrated properly... But again, that depends on implementation, so you can't generalize.

[Asliang]

Lol I think that vicious rumor of Axiom about ears bleeding was made by Alimental. I didn't find that to be the case with the Axioms (I owned the M22tis). I found them to be slightly clearer than the Ascend 170SEs, although definitely a little brighter--although less bright IMO than the Sierras. The main reason I sold the M22s was because I found the sound a bit thin, and I'm not a fan of using the sub for music.

[curtis]

So you feel the 170SE's have bit less treble energy than the Sierras? I have never done a direct comparison of the two, but with the 340SE's I feel the Sierras have a tad less.

In my own home, people have felt the same as I do, and the opposite...same set-up and same speakers. It is very interesting.

[GirgleMirt]

Lol I think that vicious rumor of Axiom about ears bleeding was made by Alimental. I didn't find that to be the case with the Axioms (I owned the M22tis). I found them to be slightly clearer than the Ascend 170SEs, although definitely a little brighter--although less bright IMO than the Sierras. The main reason I sold the M22s was because I found the sound a bit thin, and I'm not a fan of using the sub for music.

Weird that you describe the Sierras as bright, even more so that you say that they're brighter than the m22ti :confused:

The Axioms, I'm sure pretty much everyone will agree, are forward speakers. That's pretty much what many refer to as bright... Many complain that they are speakers which cause listening fatigue, which 'hurts your ears'.


After carefully listening for days and many different speaker locations I found the M80V2 speakers to be too abrasive sounding and almost an in your face type of speaker. These gave me a headache!
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7631

Answering "what speakers you wished you never bought"


DOUBTINGTHOMAS29
I fell for the internet hype and bought a pair of Axiom M60ti's. Big mistake, they made everyones ears bleed.
Mogul
I'm with you.
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-90564.html


The highs are clean, fast, and a bit forward in the mix (this makes matchups, particularly with SS amps, very important). [...] The biggest caveat for the M22 is the top end can be annoying on systems with high-end brightness
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/12/121175.html


Anyhow, as mentioned, might depend on the room, associated equipment, etc... It's just that Axiom seems to be associated with bright, so if you really dislike forward speakers or can't stand any type of brightness, these might not be the best choice...

[Asliang]

When I had the M22tis and compared them to the 170SEs the latter was definitely more laid back, and I didn't think the M22s were that bright (granted I had horrendous Sony receiver back then and the tweeters hissed quite a bit even at low volumes; that was probably clouding the sound, lol). So is the M22ti less/more bright than the Sierra? I'm going by very outdated memory of course; obviously both the control and the passage of time has eroded my memory. Don't take what I say too seriously; I'm just going by memory here (although the room and location remained the same, much time has passed...over a year actually, hah!).

I can't speak for the 340SEs because I've never heard them; but I listen to alot of songs that would be considered on the bright end; particularly with female vocals I have to say IMO the Sierra were a bit too forward for me on-axis. If i toe them outwards the brightness toned down significantly. The room of course plays a role but I swapped the Sierra's with the 170SEs with the same room and placement. Obviously memory isn't perfect but I felt there was a distinctly increased upper midrange. The measurements I got did show something of a upper midrange bump on one of the speakers (actually one speaker appeared to be 1db louder overall according to the measurements).

These are just my experience. Toeing outwards helped with decreasing the upper mids but I felt going from the 170 to the Sierra's the upper mid vocals got a bit brighter. On some songs it's slightly irritating so I had to decrease the volume. The interesting thing I found was that the Sierra's sensitivity did not seem to be much of an issue; output to me at least sounded neglible at the same receiver volume levels (using the consumer's friend receiver the Panasonic SA-XR55).

On the flip side the decay times are amazing. Male vocals that used to have a lingering sound are now almost live rather than seemingly from a loudspeaker. It was definitely a noticeable upgrade but from a treble perspective I personally feel it's a little brighter than the 170SEs...and the measurements on the pair I got do point slightly in that regard (although it could be just a case of trying to find evidence to justify my beliefs).

[donkelly]

Jerry - did you decide yet?

I have M22s and old 170s and I would think the 170s might be slightly better than the M22s and clearly better than the M3s (which I had for two weeks). The M22s a little brighter than the 170s and the M3s not as bright as the 170s. I think the 170 SEs are the flattest and have the most bass. If you like the way they look I would go with the 170s. You might feel the M3s are too bumped up in the mid bass to sound good long term. You might not, but the 170s don't seem to get many bad customer reviews at all. Axioms get a few more bad customer reviews than the 170s. All three speakers get great professional reviews.

[keithpkp]

Jerry,

I auditioned the M22 just recently. I returned them just a few days ago. Note this is really not bashing the M22 in anyway. IMO they sound fairly nice nothing too weak. I felt that they did not have enough clarity in the trebble nor mid range for me. The imaging was OK but again not exception. I took them to the Home Theater store and compare them to the Dynaudio 52 NOT 52SE and felt them to be one notch or 1 1/2 below the Dynaudio 52 (again IMO). Overall IMO they did not have the clarity and punch I was looking in sound. Note the finish (clear gloss cherry) is beautiful on the M22 and looks better than the Dynaudio. I prefer the tweeter and midrange sound on the Dynaudio.

I ended up ordering the Sierra a week ago. Will get to hear them on Friday as I am traveling for work this week.

Keith P.