Are the 340SEs loud enough for you?

[ajt976]

Hello all you Ascend forum members! Hope you have been well.

I've run into a little predicament, well…not so much a problem, just a feeling of “I want more”. I am currently running a 5.1 setup with 340SE’s across the front. My speakers are being run by my trusty AVR635. My Ascend setup has been nothing short of amazing for HT. Movies simply kick @ss! :D And I’m always getting compliments on how articulate they are. My problem lies in music. They reproduce the music terrific (especially the highs), but it’s just not loud enough for me. Maybe I’m going deaf or something, but sometimes I get the urge to crank it up and I just sense that I’m pushing them too hard.

It’s funny though, on movie soundtracks, I can get them plenty loud; I can push them farther than my ears can stand at least. They just seem to kind of wuss out on my music. It also doesn't help that my setup is in the living room that is opened up to the kitchen and dining room, fairly large space to fill with mind numbing rock. :)

So, what do you guys think? Maybe I should look into a separate amp to drive them? Maybe I should get better cables? Maybe I should get my ears cleaned out? I just badly want to get that ear to ear grin when I blast Little Wing (SRV) or Bold as Love. C’mon guys, input please?

Thanks in advance,

Andrew

[curtis]

Have you ever measured the peak SPL when listening to music?

How big is your room? How far do you sit from the speakers?

In my 14 x 18 room, my old classic 340's with older HK 525 could drive me out of the room.

[dae3dae3]

Maybe I should get better cables?
Andrew

Unless your current speaker cables look like dental floss I doubt new speaker cables would make a bit of difference in volume.

What are you using as a source for music? Since movies are full bore but music is wimpy it may be a matter of the music source putting out a weak signal to the amplifier.

With that said, I have the original 340's and they do give out and start to sound harsh before my subs but my subs are a little on the ridiculous side so I can't hold that against the 340's too much. :D

I also found that in my own case a good part of my problem turned out to be problems with my room that caused the mid-bass to get muddied up which made music sound a little weak at higher volumes. I put up acoustic panels and I was able to get the subs and 340's really tightly calibrated together and go to the next level on music.

[Jacob C]

Since movies are full bore but music is wimpy it may be a matter of the music source putting out a weak signal to the amplifier.

This is the first thing I thought when I read it. On my system movies actually sound quieter than music. Running music at the same reciever setting as I run movies is very loud and I only have 170's. Get an SPL meter and measure the difference in volume. Post the results, it may help. It you haven't tried it yet try playing the music through your DVD player and see what happens.

[muzz]

Sounds like a configuration issue to me.
Different sources I assume (as has been mentioned previously)?

As previously advised, use an SPL meter to test BOTH sources to determine where the discrepancy lies.
The 340 is fairly sensitive, I seriously doubt they are the issue, especially where you mention that movies can crank loud enough for your ears.

Sounds like a simple effort expenditure to me.

GL

m

[ajt976]

Sorry for the late response guys, thanks for the speedy replies!

I have yet to get a SPL meter and take some measurements, so I will try and do that and let you all know. I attached a very rough layout of my room with some quite approx. values just to give you guys an idea of what I'm working with. It's not the ideal setup but it's what I have to work with since I'm in an apartment.

As far as source, I usually use my PS3 for both movies and as a music server...so the source is the same.

Let me know if I can give anymore specific information, but I probably won't reply until late tonight because I'm going to the lake for the day.

Thanks again for the replies,
Andrew



ETA: I just now noticed how small my image is coming up. If I have time later I'll host the pic on my webpage. Starting at 12:00 and going clockwise those measurements are: 22ft, 14ft, 10ft, 10ft, 18ft. Sorry! :)

[muzz]

Are you using the same input on the AVR, IE: Optical/coaxial/analog/hdmi for both?

Awfully strange that a movie can pretty much drive you out of the room, and Music is not quite loud enough.
Source material?
AVR settings the same for both, DD/Stereo etc...?

It looks like you are less than 11' from the mains, and any decent receiver should easily power that, even with the opening to your right(from seating).
I have a similar opening to my left, but even the sierras(lower efficiency) at 9' can EASILY power the room, even on my old Yamaha HTR-5550 (75x5- this has been replaced- but it was plenty loud enough).
Even when seated in MY open area(app 12' or so from left speaker), it is still plenty.
My ceiling height is app 7.5'....
Even still- Movies are cranking, and music isn't, doesn't make alot of sense....

Something doesn't seem right.

Have fun at the beach!!

[ajt976]

Right now I'm using optical to from the PS3 to the AVR, and that would be the connection for both movies and music.

And I did think that source material was part of the problem, some of my music is ripped to HDD at fairly questionable bitrates, but I notice the same lack of volume even when listening straight from the CD's or FM tuner. And I have played around with the decoder settings on the receiver, nothing really seemed to make a difference. I thought that maybe stereo mode would be better because the 635 is supposed to dedicate more power when just driving 2 speakers but I think it sounded worse than when in DD 5.1 music.

Do you all generally think that music is more taxing on speakers than soundtracks? I'm still kind of wondering this. You would think that all the explosions and gunshots and whatnot would be harder for a speaker to reproduce, but the 340's do all that with ease. I mean the other day when I was watching the opening chase scene in Casino Royale those speakers were unleashing some dB's for sure! The second I turn on some music though, all that power seems to disappear. The best way I can describe it is maybe strained. It makes me feel like I will hurt them if I turn them up louder.

[marksanctuary]

I wonder if you’re sensitive to the bitrate differences of CDs vs the Dolby Digital DVDs there is a difference and I can hear it at times. Or are you comparing Stereo music to 5.1 surround sound because that could make a big difference. I listen to my CDs in 5.1 which does add more. Also you said some of the music is coming from compressed files on your server, which never sounds as good as a CD or DVD. Also if you’re using a media server to play your disks it may have difference with PCM vs Bitstream mode. Media servers almost never give you the performance that a solid DVD player will.

I have a Yamaha 2400, running full range into all three front speakers, sides crossed over at 80Hz, and I just measured 110db to 112db with my sound level meter playing “I wish it would rain now” from Phil Collins Best of CD. And I still had about 10db more my receiver knob could go but I was starting to crap my pants from the base drum and snare drum trying to rip my chest open. These speakers rock! I have never heard such clear high sound levels like them before.

[dae3dae3]

I was starting to crap my pants from the base drum and snare drum trying to rip my chest open.

Isn't it distracting having those guys assault you while you're trying to listen to the speakers? Maybe next time you should ask them to leave.









;):o

[marksanctuary]

Isn't it distracting having those guys assault you while you're trying to listen to the speakers? Maybe next time you should ask them to leave.

Always a kidder in the group. Geese! :rolleyes:

[S_rangeBrew]

The 340's are very efficient, and can get very loud with very little power.

I have the same problem as you are having with the XM Radio stations on DirecTV. The signal is just too low. Has nothing to do with the speakers, amplifier, wires, etc. Maybe your PS3 has a similar problem. Try hooking up a different source to your reciever (examples: cd player, IPoD) and see if that is better.

Try "Direct" stereo mode on your reciever... DSP settings can sometimes mute things.

The last thing I can think of is lack of power. Maybe you need a beefier amp, although with the efficiency of the 340's, I would doubt it.

[audibleconnoisseur]

I have had the 340's for about 9 months and I can say without question, and using measurements, that the 340SE's are MORE than capable of causing you permanent ear damage if you stay in the room where they are being..... aired out so to speak. I have personally run mine to over 110dB and will say that anything above 90-100 can cause loss of hearing depending on the health of your ears and age. :(

At 110dB, they were still impecably clear and precise (for the few seconds I was able to stay in the room). Don't try to push these with an underpowered system or you can/will blow them and I am pretty sure this will really ruin your day! Of course you could then go get you some Sierra's and be even happier. ;)

Good luck in your listening and love your speakers, just don't LOVE your speakers! :eek:

[S_rangeBrew]

Don't try to push these with an underpowered system or you can/will blow them and I am pretty sure this will really ruin your day! Of course you could then go get you some Sierra's and be even happier. ;)



Agreed with everything you wrote except this part. The 340SEs are far more efficient than the Sierra's, and can get much louder because of that. If you blow the 340s, you will blow the Sierra's even faster. And that would not make you happier. :(

[azanon]

I hurt my ears all the time with my Ascend 340SE's; and that's driving them with a 40x5 H/K. (55x2, 2 channel). Granted, I also use a VTF-2 with a 60hz crossover. My room is medium sized and open to adjacent rooms.

I actually feel like i'm battling addiction now. On the one hand, I love a 45minute to an hour session of loud music. But when I do that, I usually end up plugging up one ear, and that ear doesn't feel "open" until usually the next day. I already know i'm damaging my ears doing that!

[imromo24]

I haven't bought my spl meter yet but I have experienced your question. They are so clear up to what must be unsafe decibel levels that you are trying to reach a volume level that "hurts" in order to judge volume (hurting ears as well as the speaker, for instance distortion is usually an indicator of volume to some). I have found that listening alone is a bad idea because there is no way to judge volume when alone. However when the wife comes down it becomes quickly apparent that the volume is excessive.

Is this your first set of quality speakers?

[bdfin]

Back to the original issue. To me it must be the PS3. I don't own the 340's but experience the same type of volume difference with my setup. I can run music files from the Mac through a USB analog imput to the receiver and must boost the volume considerably to get the volume I may want. If I then switch to cd playing in the oppo dvd/cd unit it would blow you out of the room.

[muzz]

As I stated earlier, it has to be a config issue, the 340SE is a pretty efficient speaker, and will handle a fairly large amount of CLEAN power...
Enough to drive ya outta the room.