Another Nice Review for Sierras

[JackT]

Audioholics has published a bookshelf speaker "shootout" review, and the Sierras come of pretty nicely IMO.

One other notable point is that the x-ls is panned again, as is the HB-1. It was essentially unanimous that the Polk Audio Monitor 30 was a better value than either in that price range.

[chas]

Very interesting read, and a great example of the subjective nature of speaker review. For example in the MC-6C/Sierra comparison one reviewer noted the RBH had "more anchored vocals", while another reviewer found the vocals "slightly better anchored" on the Sierras. One reviewer felt the Sierras "lacked width in soundstage" while another reviewer "loved the wide soundstage" of the Sierra.

I'm not mentioning this to knock the review - I really enjoyed the format with the opinions of several people on each speaker. I hope to see more faceoffs like this from Audioholics!

[BradJudy]

I don't know that I'd say any speaker was panned or totally praised. I think chas is right that it shows the subjective nature of reviews as the comments were all over the place. I think it's interesting to read something where multiple people gave their thoughts on the same listening experience and I wish more were like that.

[davef]

I think Audioholics did a nice job with the shootout. I very much enjoyed reading the different likes and dislikes from the different reviewers. I feel this is a good format for reviews. I also feel that the best reviews are ones where the reviewer's own speakers, the ones he is most familiar with and most used to listening to are kept out of the comparison. Since I believe the Audioholics reviewers own different speakers than each other, a review process like this one holds a bit more weight.

In hindsight, I should have sent a pair of 170SE. From my interpretations of the various personal tastes of the reviewers, the 170SE would have done exceptionally well. Perhaps even being that one speaker that "jumped" the price barrier that they felt was missing in this shootout. ---- Next time.

[Mike^S]

I think the Sierra fared quite well in this comparison. I liked the differing opinions as well.

Definately a few things I disagree with. One is how they said the RBH had better high frequency extension. But it is clear from the measurements, that they have the same high frequency extension.

I also disagree on their opinion of the Dali. Didn't we hear those at the shop Curtis? They sounded hollow and tinny to me. The bass was also pretty weak.

[curtis]

I also disagree on their opinion of the Dali. Didn't we hear those at the shop Curtis? They sounded hollow and tinny to me. The bass was also pretty weak.
Nope...we didn't hear the Dali Mentor 1, we heard the Helicon 300, and I didn't like it much at all.

[muzz]

Those Dalis would probably cause me fatigue at reasonable listening conditions......
Are those High Frequency plots typical of a ribbon, or are they purposely boosting to try and show " Airyness/Detail".

I had a set of ribbon speakers years ago, I don't remember the name, but they were LARGE, and heavy speakers- pretty sure they were from Germany, supposedly expensive(got them from a Divorcee- who basically said"You can have these if ya want them, they were my husbands... as she laughed").

I remember feeling/hearing what I just saw in that graph(high end).

[mziegler]

I think it interesting that the Helicon 300 is supposed to be quite a step up from the Mentor, at least in terms of price. I think the Helicon retails for something like $2300.

Curtis and I also compared the Dali Ikon 1 to the 340 SE. Thin seems to be a Dali characteristic.

I find it difficult to imagine enjoying the Mentor that much. Given the chance, though...as long as it is at Curtis's--I love the shop where we heard the Dali's, but I hate the listening environment.

Even though I thought the review at audioholics was pretty good, I can't forget that RBH advertises with them.

I would like to hear some RBH speakers, but it seems very difficult to do in L.A. country. I read somewhere that they are available in Orange County. I can forsee a trip in our future...

[GirgleMirt]

One thing which I keep thinking about when reading reviews and often seeing 'weird' comments, is how much the room and placement play an incredible role in the sound...

I just moved my Sierras from about 2.5 feet to 3 feet from the back wall, and I was really surprised to hear how the bass was affected. My room always seemed to suffer from some kind of room gain around 60-80hz, but this time, it seems to almost magically fixed the room. (or fall in the perfect place to fix the issue) Bass is still very present, but was just a little reduced so that it's now basically a perfect level for the rest of the spectrum, whereas before, it was a little predominant.

I just went thru the 1st disk of PF's The Wall, and it was really reminiscent of... lol The best systems I've heard. :) I always liked the sort of punchyness and tightness of Dynaudios and the Sierras can really shine in that area too. And surprisingly, it seems that 0.5 feet also helped a bit in tightening things up a little.

Btw, the sand filled 340SE stands + Sierras are pretty damn heavy to move though.. hehe

Anyhow, vs the RBH, when you do side by side comparisons like that, I seriously doubt the Sierras & RBH were each at their ideal locations. And in my room, I can somewhat agree that the Sierras can seem a bit bass heavy (like was mentioned in the Sierra audioholics review), but it's an effect on ALL the speakers I've had, due to the room... BUT, with some time & some trial and error, which I seem to have just tonight managed to get better than I had so far with the Sierras, it can make a WORLD of a difference and make them sound as they should. (where other speakers I had which really had a bass predominance could never sound so good)

So I'm not sure how the placement was for Sierra & RBH, but if it was close to the rear wall, then it could somewhat explain the comments like:


When directly comparing the MC-6C’s to the Sierra 1’s, I found the former to sound a bit thin since the latter had so much pronounced bass. [...]The bass on the Sierra 1’s wasn’t boomy, it was just too excessive for my tastes making them sound dull in the top end.

The RBH having no bass vs the Sierra, each must have a very different ideal placement in room... If Sierra is placed closer to back, which reinforces the bass, next to where the RBH should be more at home, might make them seem bass heavy. Which in fact they really don't seem to be.

Anyhow, placement doesn't seem to only alter bass either... So for these kind of A vs B, it's always a little disappointing to think that they might have heard so much of the room, and maybe so little of the speakers themselves, or that the placement could have played such a big part of what they heard, and it might not have been ideal...

Anyhow, just wanted to share my experiences with placement, which I think would make an interesting thread... For me 3 feet seems better than 2.5 feet... Does Ascend recommend a specific distance from the back wall?

[edit: made a placement thread: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=2893 :)]


I'd say the RBH's were "sterile" and the Sierra-1's were "warm."
See that's what I mean... The Sierras can sound warm, depending on placement, but fiddling a little it's really not that hard to find the placement where the room doesn't make them sound 'warm'... And according to the measurements, they're not warm... I don't doubt that they might have sounded warm next to the RBH... But inherently, they're not warm... No bass emphasis.

And another thing, when you look at THEIR measurements: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/bookshelf-speaker-faceoff-2007/800spk.JPG/image_view_fullscreen You see that they ALL somewhat follow the same curve: bump at 50hz, dip at 75hz, dip at 125hz, bump at 160hz, dip at 400hz... That must be all from the room... Also, according to the measurements, doesn't seem that the Sierras are warm either. Anyhow, they sound "fuller" than other speakers, or sound a lot closer to 340SE + sub than 340SE on their own (or RBH), but that doesn't make them warm... Just... A more complete sound, with solid bass reproduction capabilities.

"Sierra-1's were "warm.""... *sigh*

[cool_runner]

I don't want to step on any toes, but Audioholics always has a preference for RBH (especially Gene).

I also have a stange feeling it has to do with advertisement and free gear.

[dpristin]

Guys, come on... Don't let this thread do deteriorate into something we've already seen before. Dave builds great speakers and shows utmost integrity and class both as a person and as a head of the business; what a great way to build a loyal customer base. I think we all should exercise some restraint in our posts in the company-managed forum (except for our reviews of the Ascend speakers :) ).

[rogerm]

There is a new Sierra review up today. Quite a nice one too!! http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0907/ascend_acoustic_sierra_1.htm

[curtis]

Thanks rogerm!


edit: Just read it....WOW!

Clarke's take on the Helicon 300's is interesting....perhaps I need to try them with different music. A couple of us even thought the Dynaudio Focus 140 was fairly different too.

[clarke68]

Clarke's take on the Helicon 300's is interesting....perhaps I need to try them with different music. A couple of us even thought the Dynaudio Focus 140 was fairly different too.I knew you were going to say that! :mad: ;) :p

I read your comments about the Dalis and the Dynaudios after I had already sent my review in. I know you hear this often (although not often enough), but room and set-up have a lot to do with how systems sound. The salesperson I was dealing with was a huge fan of the Dalis, and I think he knew very well how to set them up in that space to exploit their strengths.

Given a proper A/B set-up, I'm sure I could have found differences between the Dynaudios and the Sierra, but I was pretty much at the mercy of the dealer, who performed an elaborate (and time consuming) 'set up ritual' every time we switched speakers. I'm certain, however, that I would never have found $1000 worth of difference between them, so I went ahead and wrote what I wrote.

I actually carted the Sierra around quite a bit comparing to different speakers...once all the way to Costa Mesa to run them against a very highly regarded pair of $6k monitors. The room and overall quality of the set-up were so poor, however, it rendered the entire comparison moot. Despite it's flaws, the shootout I did with the Dynaudios and Dalis was far and away the most fair, which is why it made it into "print".

Next time, I'm coming down to Manhattan Beach to meet with your guy! :D

[tank418]

really nice review

[curtis]

I knew you were going to say that! :mad: ;) :p

I read your comments about the Dalis and the Dynaudios after I had already sent my review in. I know you hear this often (although not often enough), but room and set-up have a lot to do with how systems sound. The salesperson I was dealing with was a huge fan of the Dalis, and I think he knew very well how to set them up in that space to exploit their strengths.

Given a proper A/B set-up, I'm sure I could have found differences between the Dynaudios and the Sierra, but I was pretty much at the mercy of the dealer, who performed an elaborate (and time consuming) 'set up ritual' every time we switched speakers. I'm certain, however, that I would never have found $1000 worth of difference between them, so I went ahead and wrote what I wrote.

I actually carted the Sierra around quite a bit comparing to different speakers...once all the way to Costa Mesa to run them against a very highly regarded pair of $6k monitors. The room and overall quality of the set-up were so poor, however, it rendered the entire comparison moot. Despite it's flaws, the shootout I did with the Dynaudios and Dalis was far and away the most fair, which is why it made it into "print".

Next time, I'm coming down to Manhattan Beach to meet with your guy! :D
Hey Clarke! :D

I will be the first to say that the conditions we heard the Dalis and Dynaudios were less than ideal. I'd much rather hear speakers in my own room....I am pretty lucky that it is pretty dead without room treatment. My local shop does not have a good listening area IMO.

That said....the differences between the Dalis, Dyns, and Sierras were very pronounced....and by far, to me, the Helicon 300 was the least desireable. As you mentioned in your review, maybe it is my choice in music. Granted....we did not hear the Dyns and Dalis in the same room, but both were in the same room as Sierras.

All that said....I think your review of the Sierras was spot on.

When you are down here...let me know and hopefully we get together..

[buddhadas]

I will second your WOW Curtis!

[Mike^S]

Great review! I have been waiting for this one.