Are 'Bright' AVRs better for HT, and 'Warm' ones for music?

[millerwill]

I'm researching AVR's, a new HDMI one to handle the new audio codices from BR and HD DVD, to go with my Ascend 340's (LCR) and 200's (SR and SRB). The new Onkyo's (805, 875) seem to be a step up in 'features' this year, but I have heard various references to them as typically 'bright', more so than HK and Pioneer AVRs which are usually described as 'warm' and seem to be preferred for Ascends, at least for music.

I'm not really sure how much sense any of this makes, but if Onkyo's are indeed 'brighter', might this not actually be very good for HT, while the 'warmer' AVRs preferable for music? Can anyone with some experience comment on

[karmaminusone]

Hey!

Thought I would reply since I own the 805 driving Sierra1s. So not the same set up, but I will put in my two cents. And hopefully you can find some piece of this review useful.

This new year model receiver is huge. It barely fits in my tv stand (much deeper than my dlp, plus the extra room for the banana plugs). I'm glad I won't have to move this again. If I get a chance, I'll try to get some pictures up on the site of my setup. It tips the scales over 50lbs. So I don't know if you will be able to compare it to previous onkyo models in the category of sound as most of the internal workings are new to the 800 series, including the 20 extra pounds. I've never found it lacking in the area of power or ability to reproduce what I think is accurate sound. To my ears it sounds dead on neutral. Take that with a grain of salt as I have never compared receivers side by side with the same speaker. Fortunately My friends have quite the eclectic collection of receivers ranging from Pioneers, Yamaha, Sony, and HKs, so I have had some hands on experience with them. I've always found the speaker (quality components in the woofer/tweater) to be the make or break deal for if the sound is warm or bright.

If I was going to give any complaints regarding the 805 is that it will not convert analog to digital greater than 720p resulting in my xbox being connected directly to my tv at 1080i. Though I blame microsoft, not onkyo, for not putting in a hdmi out. The 3rd zone is only available via preouts, it doesn't have any speaker plugs. The club of a remote is large but well laid out and lights up. However it doesn't always work with every component correctly. For example it will not turn my dvd player on, but after that it, it is able to reproduce all the rest of the functionality of the dvd remote including turning it off. Another remote quirk is that it has a separate tv input (dvd, xbox since it is directly connected to the tv) button that is always available so I can pop up that menu on the screen but need to put the remote in tv mode to toggle over and select the actual input. I can also foresee the need to have more than 3 hdmi in connections, even if they are 1.3. And I have a small issue with blue lights... any color but blue please... *serenity now* (not to worry most of it can be configured to dim or turn off completely). And finally the onscreen menu, though simple and easy to navigate and only a limited use feature for initial setup or possibly adding components, is text base and not graphical.

But what you are getting I believe greatly out weighs the negative (and most of the negative could be removed by buying a harmony remote or an hdmi switch). You are getting a ton of clean watts (130 discrete per channel) with low distortion. There is no hiss to the speakers when I turn it on or for that matter, at any point. Beautiful sound reproduction. And besides the boat loads of connections and features, you get a couple cool sound features, above the thx ultra certification and dst-hd including pure (receiver basically shuts off with the exception of the sound), theatre-dimensional (basically a simulated 5.1 for 2 or 3 speakers)... nice if you are slowly building your system. The 805 doesn't have the several dozen sound fields like a yamaha or sony, but what it does have, is done very well and I find most of the extra sound fields frivolous in those other models. Pre-outs for every channel and zone if you ever wanted to get separates. Compare the price to features and nothing currently out is in the same league.

Hopefully other brands will start to compete with their entries later this year or next year. I hope this was objective review for the most part... some of my opinions did make it in. As well as a plethora of () and commas. Hope you don't mind.

Sincerely,
-Brian

[karmaminusone]

A realization came across me, that in my attempt at reviewing the 805 for you, I didn't directly answer your question regarding a bright receiver being better for movies while a warm sound being preferred for music. If I had a choice I would favor a neutral sound for both applications... but given the two, I would prefer slightly laid back in comparison to bright for both movies and music. I have hard time listening to anything that is bright (you might consider it a phobia or at least the equivalent of finger nails down a chalk board)... it cuts down on my enjoyment of listening immensely.

The second question being whether the onkyo 805 is bright. I think I answered that in my post. That being I don't believe the new onkyos can be compared to their predecessors. And no I don't find the 805 bright.

Hopefully I can figure out how to move the review to the correct section.

Sorry about that,

-Brian

[millerwill]

Thanks, Karma, for great info. It certainly sounds like I should keep the Onkyo on my short list. I think I will wait until the new Pio Elites are out, to see how people rate them in comparison, but on paper at least, the Onkyos certainly look like the best product and best value.

[logicology]

I also have the Onkyo 805 with Sierra L/C/R. I do not find the 805 to be "bright". Out of the box it may have been a little bright, but I think it was more my room acoustics than the receiver. I ran the Audyssey and it really tuned the sound and focused it. I believe the 805 and Sierras are an unbelievable combination. The Sierras even with a bad receiver would probably sound great. But there is truly an unimaginable sound stage and imaging. Even at soft volumes, dialog is intelligable and music is precise. I am a composer by profession and spend most of my days in professional studios working with totally flat studio monitors and perfectly tuned rooms. I have to say, I am *seriously* considering adding Sierras to my studio monitoring setup.

I know I kind of went off on a tanget here. But the point is, I don't believe the 805 is a bright or dark receiver. To my ears, it is actually fairly transparent. I think it really lets my Sierras shine.

[logicology]

And as a follow up. I personally believe that bright AVRs are better for HT and warm better for music. Although others might diasgree. I think it's a matter of taste. My brother loves his Denon and Kliptch speakers for music. I believe these are very bright... too bright for my taste. But for HT it might be better.

[millerwill]

Thanks, logicology--very helpful. Sounds like the Onkyo 805 (or 875 if video processing turns out to be useful) is in my future.

[Mag_Neato]

My Onkyo 703 does a nice job with my Sierra-1's. I had a Denon prior, and it did a good job as well. I think the Onkyo is a bit more user friendly, but the Denon is probably tweakier, and it attenuates volume and channel levels by 1/2db steps, where the Onkyo does 1db steps. The Onkyo seems to provide a bit more punch when pushed, even though they are rated similarly. The surround effects are very active and create that enveloping sound we all want. The THX Re-EQ can be turned off if desired as well. At 100 watts x 7, I usually play movies at -20, depending on the recording level of the DVD. I have run it at -13 or so, but it gets louder than I need without becoming harsh. The Sierra's will take all the clean power you can feed them.

I must say that the Onkyo offers some neat features. Intellivolume allows you to set a preset turn-on volume regardless of where it was at power-off. You can adjust the different inputs to be level matched, so you don't go from, say, listening to a cd or watching a DVD at maybe -20, then switching to the tuner and getting blown out of your seat. It's not perfect, but it does most things right.

[millerwill]

Thanks MagNeato: All these comments and insights are extremely helpful.
Bill

[muzz]

I PERSONALLY think Neutral is the best way to go, tough to achieve of course, but IMO it should be what is strived for.
One of the reasons I have Ascend speakers.

I want my gear to sound like the soundtrack(either) if possible.

Some folks like coloration, I'd prefer none(as little as I can afford), in either situation.

[millerwill]

I PERSONALLY think Neutral is the best way to go, tough to achieve of course, but IMO it should be what is strived for.
One of the reasons I have Ascend speakers.

I want my gear to sound like the soundtrack(either) if possible.

Some folks like coloration, I'd prefer none(as little as I can afford), in either situation.

So do you have a specific AVR to recommend?

[muzz]

So do you have a specific AVR to recommend?

Nope, I haven't heard any of the new breed of AVR's. I went seperates instead, and will continue that trend as long as I can afford to(which SHOULD be endless as long as I have a JOB!!).

Have you taken a look at the New Sherwood Newcastle gear, I HAVEN'T, but their gear usually specs out close to it's specs(according to reviews), where most other AVR's (even name brand AVR's falter) don't when pushed.

Sherwood Newcastle also makes a fair share of the "Good" AVR's out there under different names, they just put their name on it, and maybe change a few things.
Denon(?) and Marantz are 2 right off the bat (I THINK- I'm NOT sure about ALL models- I could be wrong, but I thought they bought these).

Maybe I'm blowing smoke, but thats what I've read, to what extent it's true, I dunno.....

YOU may wanna look into that!!