Sierra's...set to small or large on receiver?

[merrymaid520]

Hello everyone,

My sierras are scheduled to arrive via ups on Friday...yeah! I have always been under the impression to set all speakers in a 5.1 setup to small rather than large to redirect bass from them to my SVS sub for cleaner mids & etc. My setup included 3 340SE's across the front now being replaced with a pair of sierras in front and 170's for surrounds with the 340SE center still. I run them off of a yamaha receiver(rx v1300) and into a B&K 200.3 amp. The yamaha only always a small or large setting(no choice in frequencies) and bass to the sub, mains, or both option. Now that the sierras go so low, would I be gaining more mid bass by setting them to large but leaving the other LFE setting to the sub only? I had the previous setting to small for all speakers and just am curious if I should change it. I listen to alot of 2 channel music, DVD-A dics in 2ch & MCH, and of course movies.

Just looking for suggestions before they arrive. The one thing I want to avoid would be damaging them of course too. I do listen loud at times but never near crazy levels by any means.

Thanks,
Brandon

[curtis]

Play with the settings you have and see what you like best.

A receiver with an adjustable crossover would do you well IMO.

[merrymaid520]

Thanks curtis. I will see what sounds best once I get them up & running. I wish my yamaha had more settings for that but I am stuck with it for now.

Will I risk any damage(too much bass) to the sierras if set to large with LFE directed only towards the sub?

Thanks,
Brandon

[curtis]

Only if you play it super loud.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

I have always been under the impression to set all speakers in a 5.1 setup to small rather than large to redirect bass from them to my SVS sub for cleaner mids & etc.

Well, that's right, but it's not just for cleaner mids--the truth is that even with action movies, you'll often find that much (if not most) of the deep bass (LFE) is contained in the main channels (particularly the front channels). The LFE-specific channel (i.e. the .1 channel) is used a lot by some mixers, but most are quite selective about what they put there because there are phase issues with which to contend. If they can put a bass effect entirely in the main channels, then they often will, but it varies, and we can't assume anything except for what the soundtrack can contain.

In most setups, you have to set all of your speakers to SMALL in order to ensure that all of the bass in the main channels is reproduced. The main channels--which include the surrounds--can go all the way down to 3 Hz, just like the LFE channel.


The yamaha only always a small or large setting(no choice in frequencies) and bass to the sub, mains, or both option. Now that the sierras go so low, would I be gaining more mid bass by setting them to large but leaving the other LFE setting to the sub only?

These settings would mean that anything lower than about 40 Hz in the front left & right channels would be lost. At higher frequencies, the Sierra-1s could increase the total mid-bass capacity of your system in theory, but only if movies are mixed specifically to take advantage of your setup, which is obviously not very likely. ;) The reality is that the Sierra-1s would never work with the sub, and would limit the bass output of the front left & right channels.

I know it's tempting for Sierra-1 owners to want to make the most of the speaker's amazing bass capabilities (for its size), but for HT, I would suggest setting them to SMALL just like I would if they were full-sized floor-standing speakers. Now, music is a different matter, and I think you'll want to experiment.


I had the previous setting to small for all speakers and just am curious if I should change it. I listen to alot of 2 channel music, DVD-A dics in 2ch & MCH, and of course movies.

In the case of music (with any number of channels), try setting the Sierra-1s to LARGE first, and then try redirecting the bass from the SMALL speakers to the LARGE Sierra-1s (leaving the sub out entirely).


Just looking for suggestions before they arrive. The one thing I want to avoid would be damaging them of course too. I do listen loud at times but never near crazy levels by any means.

What Curtis said, and with movies, just set all of your speakers to SMALL and you should be fine.

[merrymaid520]

Robert,

Very informative post. I never realized real low bass can be incorporated into the surround channels, not just the LFE ".1" channel. I just rather keep them on small for safety & maybe experiment on 2 channel listening. I have always left my 340SE's on small and they sound great when listening to cd's & other music. Plenty of bass output too! The sierras should exceed them nicely:)

Also, when listening to DVD-Audio thru the 5.1 analogs ins, my receiver cannot do any bass managment that I know of, so they are playing on "large" anyway, right? If thats correct, I leave them on small and I am safe for movies, and they revert to "large" when playing DVD-audio. I guess if I felt like it I would still have to switch them from small to large when listening to standard pcm cd's though. Options...options...options!

The sierras are set to arrive tommorow still. I will post impressions early next week. Will UPS leave them if I am not home?

Brandon

[Dread Pirate Robert]

I never realized real low bass can be incorporated into the surround channels, not just the LFE ".1" channel.

I don't blame you--the very existence of a dedicated bass channel would seem to imply that's where all of the bass (at least what you'd want to be played by the subwoofer) would go. However, the Dolby Digital standard allows for a lot more flexibility than this with regard to mixing and playback, which is why they also required bass management for their decoders (the situation is virtually identical for DTS), and why we almost always have to use it (at least for movies).

By the way, it's interesting to see how varied the mixes of movies can be. For instance, some movies, such as Casino Royale, have a ton of high-energy content in the LFE channel, while some others, such as Titanic, have content of surprisingly low volume in that channel. And of the two movies I've mentioned, the one with much lower LFE channel volume actually has higher total subwoofer output at its loudest moments (at least according to the meter on my equalizer). Aside from bass, there are also many variations between how different elements, such as dialogue and music, are mixed into the main channels, even though both the intent and result can end up sounding similar. :)


Also, when listening to DVD-Audio thru the 5.1 analogs ins, my receiver cannot do any bass managment that I know of,

Most that I've seen cannot, unfortunately. :(


so they are playing on "large" anyway, right?

From the receiver's point of view, yes, but you might want to check whether your player can do some bass management of its own. Unfortunately, many, if not most, cannot (what a sad state of affairs for DVD-Audio), but it's worth a peek at the manual.


If thats correct, I leave them on small and I am safe for movies, and they revert to "large" when playing DVD-audio.

That might actually be a good thing, as long as it sounds good to you. Most multi-channel audio titles, despite being 5.1, have little or no actual content in the center or LFE channels, and most of the heavy bass will probably be played by the Sierra-1s in front. Movies are very different, of course, generally having much greater and deeper bass content, as well as a heavy emphasis on the center channel.


I guess if I felt like it I would still have to switch them from small to large when listening to standard pcm cd's though. Options...options...options!

That's right, it's the "tyranny" of options (or choice, as the case may be). Things are so much easier when we have few or none, aren't they? Yep! But would we be willing to give up our options? Nope! :D


The sierras are set to arrive tommorow still. I will post impressions early next week. Will UPS leave them if I am not home?

You might want to email or call Ascend about this (I'm local and picked mine up), but I would think not, considering the value of the items (PRICELESS! :eek: ). If they miss you, though, you could always drive to the distribution center to pick the speakers up yourself.

[merrymaid520]

I appreciate it again! You're right on the soundtrack for Casino Royale. I have watched it on Blu-Ray in my theater and its quite impressive:)

Unfortunately my DVD Audio player is several years old and has limited to no bass management. I would most likely just leave the setting to large anyway for the fact that most multi channel music & etc. has limited deep bass.

I jst sent an email to James in regards to the shipping. If I recaill, the last time UPS arrived with ascends, I was home anyway. I feel a cold coming on....cough....cough;)

I always apreciate the help I receive in the forums and from James & crew at ascend!

Thanks,
Brandon

[muzz]

I run my Sierras Large with Music, and small in Movies.

I can't even begin to imagine my Sierras trying to play War of the Worlds with them set to large!! :eek: