Sierras, thumbs up up up up up!!!!

[Mike^S]

Well, I just got home from work and decided to do some spirited listen to my Sierra's, neighbors be damned. :p

I just played several songs from Tool's 10,000 days, not everyone's cup of tea, but my favorite band. Oh my God! It was awesome! I was playing fairly loud, -15dB on my Denon 2805, but it was so smooth, detailed and clear. The soundstage extended far beyond the width of the speakers and the imaging was not compromised. I don't know if I've ever heard a clearer center image, at least not anywhere near this price.

Oh, and the bass! I have no desire to turn my subwoofer on for music with these speakers.

Everything is so clear. You know how when you go the optometrist and he asks you to read the letters on the charts. Some of the letters are too small and you have to squint to read them. Then when you put the lenses on, everything is so clear and you don't have to try to see the little letters. That's how these speakers are. You hear all these little details so clearly and so easily. It's like an orgasm for the ears. :eek: :D :D

[curtis]

I won't talk about orgasms, but so far, I concur!

[JasonColeman]

We all appreciate that Curtis...let's keep it to the speakers! :eek:

How do you like the natural finish? How are the corners and the ends of the cabinets?

J.

[curtis]

the cabinet is great. I can't find the seams.

[JasonColeman]

That's good to hear. Would you post a couple of up-close pics of the cabinet if you have a chance? Particularly the corners and the top edges? I'm curious how they work those surfaces together.

Thanks,

J.

the check's in the mail...

[curtis]

I'll see how close I can get with my camera.

[curtis]

Here you go...the flash really exposes everything well. I found a seam/joint. to the touch, it is smooth.

http://changpics.smugmug.com/photos/154281688-M.jpg

http://changpics.smugmug.com/photos/154281776-M.jpg

[Mike^S]

A little update. For music, running them full range sounds great. For movies, you do miss some of the very deep bass. So what I did was run the Sierras full range and then add in the subwoofer (VTF-3 HO) with the crossover set to 40hz for movies. To me this sounds very good. Nice punchy bass plus deep bass that shakes the room. I wish I had a JL Fathom F112 or F113, but they are so pricey. :(

Hopefully, running the Sierras full range like this won't hurt them. My amp is a Denon 2805 rated at 100 watts per channel. I'm not hearing any distortion at -10dB.

[curtis]

I just watched and listenned to some DTS movie clips and DTS multichannel music. I am still running the Sierras fullrange, and they continue to impress.

The 170SE's are working fine as surrounds, but I do wish to try Sierras there as well....need to figure out a nice way of mounting them.

Next, I will listen/watch the same stuff with a 60hz and 80hz crossover for the Sierras.

BTW, I able to cross my surrounds independently from my center and L/R, so while the Sierras were being run fullrange, the 170SE's are small/crossed at 80hz.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

I have never been a fan of wood finishes on electronics, including speakers, but the lacquered natural finish on the Sierra-1 looks unique and very, very nice. The pattern on that front corner in the first picture really shows off the fact that the cabinet is made of bamboo by revealing some of its internal structure. Because I generally prefer black aesthetically, I can't believe I'm saying this, but if or when I upgrade to the Sierra line, I think I'd go with the natural finish because it's not merely a veneer and it would be such a shame to cover the natural beauty of the real material (that was designed for performance above all else).


Hopefully, running the Sierras full range like this won't hurt them. My amp is a Denon 2805 rated at 100 watts per channel. I'm not hearing any distortion at -10dB.

They were designed to be run as full-range speakers, so I doubt that you could hurt them at reasonable levels, but as you know, movies can have some crazy bass at times. The LFE channel is calibrated to run 10 dB hot, which means that on its own it can potentially demand twice as much bass power from your speakers as the other five channels combined. :eek: Only Dave can provide a definitive answer, but personally, I'd cross them over to a sub at no lower than 60 Hz for movies and run them full range without a sub for most music (pretty much in line with Dave's own suggestions). Obviously, this would ease the strain on the Sierra-1's woofers, which helps keep the midrange clean. I'm just guessing and being conservative, though--try all the configurations you want (while being careful) and let everyone know the results, which may be quite surprising.


The 170SE's are working fine as surrounds, but I do wish to try Sierras there as well....need to figure out a nice way of mounting them.

Take your time in order to ensure that you get the best results, although I doubt there would be a better way than using a shelf-type mount designed for small direct-view TVs (with a few modifications for securing the speaker in case of earthquakes and the like). I wish I could be of more help, but it's not easy to mount speakers like this without drilling into them. :(


BTW, I able to cross my surrounds independently from my center and L/R, so while the Sierras were being run fullrange, the 170SE's are small/crossed at 80hz.

Even when crossed over at 80 Hz, my 170SE surrounds have at times produced enough bass for me to feel in my gut with the subwoofer turned off (been experimenting)--a sensation that I normally neither get nor expect from this speaker even when used at full range. This shows us how insane some movie soundtracks can be (my experiments are conducted at the "standard" 75 dB home theater level).

[Mitch G]

Unknowledgeable Person Warning (i.e. go easy on me):

I thought (quality) speakers had built-in protections against frequencies that are too low (or high). I assumed this was part of the job of the cross-over circuitry.
So, is there really a danger at running a speaker like the Sierra as full range?


Mitch

[curtis]

It is not so much running the speaker fullrange, you can do that with any speaker.

The problem occurs with turning up the volume high and the speaker receiving signals that push the drivers to over excursion. Also, having an amp/receiver that is not up to par, can cause it to clip at high volumes, and thus damaging the speaker.

[curtis]

I emailed the local A/V shop owner and asked him what his favorite bookshelves were, price no factor, and that mziegler and I wanted to compare.

He came back with this:



have a few that i really like:

the dali helicon 300 (but you have to have enough space to let the tweeter breath)
the kef reference 201/2 (havent heard it yet, but i expect it to be fantastic)
usher is releasing a bookshelve with the beryllium tweeter. i have this on order.

you may borrow any, or spend time in the store listening.

So when time permits, we are going to try and set this up.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

Curtis' answer is exactly right, and just to add to what he said, with movie soundtracks playing at their full dynamic range, you'd have to turn the volume up high enough to hear the dialogue when characters are whispering, and that's when the mighty LFE channel can potentially damage your speakers while running full-range (the main channels are also quite dynamic--much more than you'd get from an audio CD, depending on the movie). I don't mean to be an alarmist, but amid the excitement over what the Sierra-1 can do, I don't want people to blow out their new speakers by playing bass-heavy movie DVDs at full range and volume. More likely than not, it would be the amps that would fail first, sending a highly clipped signal or a huge DC current that could fry any speaker.

The choice of the frequency at which to cross over to your sub is not based only on what frequency range your speakers can handle (which is important), but also the total amount of bass that it can reproduce with adequate volume and safety. Obviously, as this frequency goes up, more of the bass will be diverted away from the speakers and to the subwoofer. At the same time, the lower the crossover frequency your speakers can handle, the better the quality of the resulting bass will be, albeit only to a point. Dave himself had suggested a 60 Hz crossover frequency for music (if you need a sub at all, like for organ music), and I've been suggesting that people at least try out slightly higher frequencies for movies that have wicked levels of bass (although 60 Hz may be perfect given the Sierra-1's considerable capabilities--there's only one way to find out and that is to experiment).

[curtis]

Actually, that brings up a question or two.

If you have no sub in your system....ie. sub=no, does the LFE(.1) channel get directed to the mains?

If you do have a sub....ie. sub=yes, speakers set to large, what does the spec say in terms of the recording....what is the frequency range sent to the mains, and for the sub?

I had thought the FR for the sub was 120hz and below, but I have never read anything about the guidelines for the mains.

[drewface]

yeh... whenever all this talk of blowing out speakers with bass-heavy movie soundtracks comes up i get really scared. since i don't own a sub yet, i have my speakers set to large all around with the low frequencies being sent to the front speakers (just the mains, according to the on-screen display of my receiver). i haven't had any problems yet, but these threads always make me worried i am screwing up my speakers...

[Gov]

Bottom line.......if you like to watch bass heavy movies at high SPL's do your Ascends a favor and run them "small", get a decent sub and cross at 60, 80 or 100hz (whatever floats your boat).

[Dread Pirate Robert]

If you have no sub in your system....ie. sub=no, does the LFE(.1) channel get directed to the mains?

That's a good question, and the broadest answer is that the standard is flexible with regard to bass management (typical :rolleyes: ), and that most AVRs (certainly the ones with which I'm familiar) will mix at least some of the LFE into either the front left and right speakers or possibly divide it up amongst all speakers set to Large. Here is what the ATSC A/52 (Dolby Digital) standard actually says:

Downmixing of the lfe channel is optional. An ideal downmix would have the lfe channel reproduce at an acoustic level of +10 dB with respect to the left and right channels. Since the inclusion of this channel is optional, any downmix coefficient may be used in practice. Care should be taken to assure that loudspeakers are not overdriven by the full scale low frequency content of the lfe channel.

That's probably not a very satisfying answer, but it is what it is. To take one example, my Denon receiver, like many others, allows the user to set the LFE mix level (-10 to 0 dB plus the standard +10), which also affects how much LFE makes it into the front left and right speakers in the absence of an externally powered subwoofer. I'm not absolutely sure whether the LFE signal is automatically attenuated by some amount in order to prevent overload when downmixing to 5.0, but it sure seemed to all be there when I've played with that configuration. This may not be true for all receivers, by the way.

Including the LFE in 2.0 downmixes, as opposed to 5.0, is likewise considered optional, but in practice it is virtually always left out entirely (I have yet to see an exception to this rule in consumer electronics).


If you do have a sub....ie. sub=yes, speakers set to large, what does the spec say in terms of the recording....what is the frequency range sent to the mains, and for the sub?

The spec makes a lot of sensible, logical suggestions but dictates very little with regard to reproduction. The receiver is free to send pretty much whatever it wants to the mains, within reason, and the meanings of the settings vary among different makes and models; some even allow you to send the combined signal intended for the sub to the mains in addition to their own full-range DD channels.

Regarding the encoded soundtrack itself, all of the channels should be high-pass filtered at 3 Hz, and the LFE channel should be low-pass filtered (eighth-order elliptic) at 120 Hz. In practice, Dolby's encoder will also low-pass filter the five main channels at 20 kHz when the bitrate is 448 kb/s (DVD), 18 kHz when it's 384 kb/s (DVD and LD), and 15 kHz when it's 320 kb/s (commercial theaters); additionally, mixers avoid using the frequency range 80-120 Hz in the LFE channel because most receivers will low-pass filter the subwoofer output at the crossover frequency, potentially throwing out this information anyway.


I had thought the FR for the sub was 120hz and below, but I have never read anything about the guidelines for the mains.

The main channels are all full range: from 3 Hz to 20 kHz. However, the LFE channel, as noted earlier, ideally (according to Dolby) has twice the power of all of them combined from 3 Hz to 120 Hz (80 Hz in practice).


yeh... whenever all this talk of blowing out speakers with bass-heavy movie soundtracks comes up i get really scared.

Note that I'm trying really hard not to spread disinformation and undue paranoia here. :) We don't hear about people blowing up their speakers constantly, so it's not likely to happen under most circumstances (although it can and does occasionally). I just want everyone to be careful and use some common sense instead of getting carried away with pushing the limits of their new speakers. For example, if the speakers begin distorting or the amps begin clipping just as a scene is about to get even louder, then for God's sake, reduce the volume right away! :eek:


since i don't own a sub yet, i have my speakers set to large all around with the low frequencies being sent to the front speakers (just the mains, according to the on-screen display of my receiver). i haven't had any problems yet, but these threads always make me worried i am screwing up my speakers...

Some people have even damaged their subwoofers by driving them too hard, and unfortunately it's difficult to offer any concrete guidelines because there is so much variation between movies, preferred listening levels, bass management schemes, and so forth. Don't worry so much that you can't enjoy your speakers--just pick the "bassiest" scene you know of, replay it repeatedly as you gradually increase the volume each time to determine what the limits (if any) are, make some adjustments on your receiver (e.g. LFE level, dynamic range compression) if necessary, and let fate take care of the rest.


Bottom line.......if you like to watch bass heavy movies at high SPL's do your Ascends a favor and run them "small", get a decent sub and cross at 60, 80 or 100hz (whatever floats your boat).

Great advice, Gov, although I just remembered another reason I like to cross over at 80 Hz for movies (alluded to above): most AVRs stupidly low-pass filter the subwoofer pre-out at the crossover frequency, which means that you could lose some of the LFE signal from the crossover frequency to 80 Hz. :mad:

The bottom-bottom line is that if you want accurate and complete reproduction of movie soundtracks, you must have a full 5.1 (or 6.1 or 7.1) system, a bass management crossover frequency of 80 Hz or higher (80 Hz is best), speakers that are all capable of being crossed over at this frequency, and a subwoofer that digs down to 10 Hz if possible (20 Hz is a more practical goal to shoot for in most cases). Anything else would leave you at the whim of many variable, uncontrollable, often unknowable factors from many different sources.

Geez, if ignorance is bliss, then it seems that all I ever do is spread misery. :rolleyes:

[Gov]

Curtis,

I am really interested in your opinion crossing the Sierra's at 80hz (small) with a sub for music and movies. I am wondering just how much better (if at all) they are compared to the 340SE's in that roll.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

most AVRs stupidly low-pass filter the subwoofer pre-out at the crossover frequency, which means that you could lose some of the LFE signal from the crossover frequency to 80 Hz. :mad:

Note that I said "most AVRs"--some do this right, and if yours has independent crossover settings for each speaker or type of speaker, then it's a pretty safe bet that you can set your crossover lower than 80 Hz without missing out on any of the LFE signal.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

Curtis,

I am really interested in your opinion crossing the Sierra's at 80hz (small) with a sub for music and movies. I am wondering just how much better (if at all) they are compared to the 340SE's in that roll.

Agreed, it would be very interesting indeed. Theoretically, they should still sound cleaner, of course, but the question is whether their dynamics will be noticeably superior in this common configuration. Generally speaking, crossing over at a higher frequency may seem like a waste of the Sierra-1's frequency range, but even much larger floor-standing speakers can benefit from the reduced load.

By the way, yet another issue concerning the selection of an ideal crossover point for 5.1 audio is the interaction between the bass in the main channels and the LFE channel with respect to phase. Any time different filters are used on multiple channels to derive a single combined channel (i.e. the subwoofer pre-out), there is a strong possibility of phase cancellation due to all of the disparate phase shifting going on. This issue is well known in the industry, and mixers will take it into consideration when they determine what to put in the LFE channel, but as far as I'm aware, they only monitor the end result when crossed over at 80 Hz (the de facto industry standard). Crossing over at any other frequency can result in some unpredictable amount of bass cancellation, which while probably not severe or even noticeable in most cases, is still less than ideal. And crossing over at more than one frequency--particularly within the front stage--can introduce even more arbitrary cancellation at the electronic level.

[curtis]

I did integrate the sub last night with a 60hz crossover. The integration was easy, and there seems to be a trade off in bass definition, with the Sierras alone seeming to be a bit better in this regard. Of course, with the sub, you get more of the deep material if it is there.

I will play around with sub integration and crossover points over the long weekend.

If I had a more flexible pre/pro, I would set it up to play 2 channel music through the Sierras fullrange, no sub, and for TV/movies to use the sub.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

I did integrate the sub last night with a 60hz crossover. The integration was easy, and there seems to be a trade off in bass definition, with the Sierras alone seeming to be a bit better in this regard. Of course, with the sub, you get more of the deep material if it is there.

It's hard to tell exactly what's happening because reproducing deeper bass can often make everything sound a bit less defined or "tight," especially if it excites a room mode with slow decay.


I will play around with sub integration and crossover points over the long weekend.

I'll try to do some additional pointed research and experimentation myself (albeit not with Sierra-1s) to make sure our understanding is accurate, and get a more detailed picture of how movie soundtracks are actually mixed.


If I had a more flexible pre/pro, I would set it up to play 2 channel music through the Sierras fullrange, no sub, and for TV/movies to use the sub.

That would be nice, but if you have a remote with macro capability, you could hopefully be able to switch configurations at the touch of a button, I would think.

[curtis]

Yeah...I have a Home Theater Master MX-700 and have a couple of macros setup. The problem is if for some reason the remote controlled devices do not pick up the signal, because then you are kind of screwed....the macro may do somethng very different to the configuration.

[curtis]

Last night I watched "Blood Diamonds" with the new Sierras. The center does a fabulous job. Like all great centers, the dialouge was clear and inteligible....and never once did I feel like I was listening to a center channel. The blend with the left and right was a seamless soundstage.

I also listenned to a lot of music yesterday and this morning. The imaging is very precise(at least compared to what I have heard), instruments and voices are seperated and put in their spots across the stage.....but also in depth. Nothing emphasized unless called for.

[muzz]

Great to hear that Curtis.... I can't wait to receive mine!!

[spunky721]

Curtis,

Did you have to do a lot of tweaking to the placement of the Sierra's to get the imaging and soundstage that you've described?

[curtis]

Curtis,

Did you have to do a lot of tweaking to the placement of the Sierra's to get the imaging and soundstage that you've described?
I have not done anything in regards to that. They are in the same exact place where I had the 340's.

[Mike^S]

You know, another thing I've noticed about the Sierras is how well they reproduce horned instruments. I'm just listening to Pink Floyd's Money and there is a loud horn solo. With many speakers, including my previous Ascends, the horns have a tendency to sound bright and harsh. And I always felt like turning the volume down. Not so with the Sierras. Loud and clear, but not harsh at all.

[curtis]

I never felt horns were harsh with my previous Ascends.....felt they were very accurate and realistic.

[Quinn]

My observations are kind of all over the place so far. It has been a busy day without much sit down critical listening. Demanding detailed pieces are where, to me, the Sierras shine. Remember when you got your Ascends and went through all your music again rediscovering it and all the things you never heard before on familiar discs? That is what it is like for detailed demanding pieces. Then for simple stuff the imaging, sound stage, and bass are what you notice most. But, then I played some of the Jewel concert, just her and her guitar for the most part, I have in HD on the DVR and it was like holy crap that was amazing compared to listening to it just 2 or 3 nights ago on the 340s.

The Fairfield Four's Standing in the Safety Zone was the disc that impressed me the most today for what the Sierra can do. The four part harmonies had more separation of the individual voices and the depth of the timbre, that I had not been hearing before, was captivating on the Sierras.

Oh and the Sierras can play LOUD with no strain. I started to worry if I was going to run into clipping.

[drewface]

But, then I played some of the Jewel concert, her just her and her guitar for the most part, I have in HD on the DVR and it was like holy crap that was amazing compared to listening to it just 2 or 3 nights ago on the 340s.good choice. i've been a big fan of jewel for a while now, and when i got my ascends it made her that much sweeter to listen to. her solo acoustic stuff is definitely the best to listen to.

[curtis]

Remember when you got your Ascends and went through all your music again rediscovering it and all the things you never heard before on familiar discs?
Yup! I even bought a bunch of new stuff from Amazon!

[Quinn]

The Sierras are really good. The timbre/tone of instruments and voices that I hadn't been hearing before is pretty amazing. The attack and decay is very good and very smooth. One thing I have noticed is there is no note hang over meaning when a note ends that is it, there is no fade away. I'm guessing this is where the bamboo cabinet comes into play.

I heard a lot of more expensive speakers at CES this year that I feel the Sierras are better than.

[Quinn]

The Sierras are a lot more revealing than the SE but yet they are a good bit smoother and a more relaxed presentation. I've listened to a few familiar pieces that suddenly weren't that familiar with the extra details the tone and timbre being revealed. Buena Vista Social Club comes to mind.

I'm also really impressed with strings. Cellos and standing bass are so good on the Sierras.

Oh, and the Sierras just beg to be cranked up!

[Quinn]

OK, I do have a complaint about the Sierras. My VTF-2's bass now sounds bloated to me. I guess it will now only be on for movies.

[Mag_Neato]

OK, I do have a complaint about the Sierras. My VTF-2's bass now sounds bloated to me. I guess it will now only be on for movies.

Do you think my UFW-10 will be ok to use with mine? Man....I cannot wait to hook up my Sierras. Next week sometime :(

[Quinn]

Do you think my UFW-10 will be ok to use with mine? Man....I cannot wait to hook up my Sierras. Next week sometime :(

I'm a fan of the UFW-10. Let me know how the combo is for you.

[curtis]

Do you think my UFW-10 will be ok to use with mine? Man....I cannot wait to hook up my Sierras. Next week sometime :(
I don't think there will be much difference in using the UFW-10 with the Sierra in regards to music...just a bit more extension. Most of the stuff I remember reading has the UFW-10 rolling off around 30hz, with the Sierra getting down to 40hz in-room, you are just getting another half octave of extension.

The issue that I have with my VTF-3MK3 is the slight loss of punch and texture/definition when I use it...but it definitely has more extension when called for. I currently have them crossed at 60hz.

If I had a more tweakable pre/pro, like an Anthem, I think I would set it up to do music with no sub, and movies/TV with a sub.

[Mag_Neato]

That's why we are waiting for Dave's Reference Bamboo Sub, or RBS-1!

As a side note, I did see a bamboo-coned woofer in the latest Parts Express catalog.

[dallas]

That's why we are waiting for Dave's Reference Bamboo Sub, or RBS-1!

As a side note, I did see a bamboo-coned woofer in the latest Parts Express catalog.


hehe, BamBoom.

[curtis]

hehe, BamBoom.
that's a good one!

[dallas]

that's a good one!


thanx. Your welcome to use my lame puns at parties and call it your own :)

It's outside the "mountain" theme though of ascend. He'll probably call it something like "Fault line' or "Avalanche". Maybe an asian translation for paying homage to the bamboo.

[steveklein]

hey guys... to those of you lucky enough to have used both the 340SE and the sierras, i have a question.

i know that many people consider the center channel to be the most important channel in a 5.1 setup, so i have to ask this...

would using a pair of sierra 1's for fronts and a 340SE center sound work better or worse than just using 340SE's across the whole front? the reason i ask is it will be virtually impossible for me to use a sierra center because i am resting an lcd tv on top of the center channel speaker and the tv's footprint is too large for the sierra (but fits nicely with the 340SE).

i just wonder if i would be better off having 3 identical 340SE's across the front.

for what it's worth, i'll be using a pair of HTM-200s for surround duty.

[dallas]

hey guys... to those of you lucky enough to have used both the 340SE and the sierras, i have a question.

i know that many people consider the center channel to be the most important channel in a 5.1 setup, so i have to ask this...

would using a pair of sierra 1's for fronts and a 340SE center sound work better or worse than just using 340SE's across the whole front? the reason i ask is it will be virtually impossible for me to use a sierra center because i am resting an lcd tv on top of the center channel speaker and the tv's footprint is too large for the sierra (but fits nicely with the 340SE).

i just wonder if i would be better off having 3 identical 340SE's across the front.

for what it's worth, i'll be using a pair of HTM-200s for surround duty.

I haven't used both, but likely the answer will be 3 340's will be better for movies and multi channel music, and the 2 S-1's and 1 240 will be better if/when you listen to 2 channel music.

[Mag_Neato]

I am wrestling with that very issue myself. I have a new 32" LCD set still in the box. My old 20" CRT allowed me to rest the center directly on top of it. If I keep my current center, it may be large enough to support it, but I really don't like the center to be lower than the other speakers, so I am considering building a stand that will put the center directly above the set.

[Quinn]

I like BamBoom a lot! I think Avalanche has been done by a driver builder. If he is sticking to SoCal inspirations I like San Andreas in the same vein as Fault Line.

[dallas]

I like BamBoom a lot! I think Avalanche has been done by a driver builder. If he is sticking to SoCal inspirations I like San Andreas in the same vein as Fault Line.

Grand Theft Auto may sue over that one. :)

[Quinn]

Grand Theft Auto may sue over that one. :)

Shows how old I am, or that my kids are girls, that I had to google Grand Theft Auto to find out what it is. But if San Andreas isn't a subwoofer in that game I don't see an issue.

[dallas]

Shows how old I am, or that my kids are girls, that I had to google Grand Theft Auto to find out what it is. But if San Andreas isn't a subwoofer in that game I don't see an issue.


ya, that game is probably the best known modern game. 1 because it's good, but even more so because the media uses it as the symbol for video game violence and politicians try to ban/regulate it.

New york's mayor even came out against the new version which takes place in new york. He has issues with a game involving violence, but not the 15 Law and Orders on daily showing 2 murders/rapes/etc per episode or CSI or any other number of shows/movies that show criminals in new york.

sorry, back on topic.

[Mitch G]

Well the speaker fairy left a couple of natural Sierras on my porch today.

My system (5.1) as of yesterday consisted of Paradigm Atoms all around with the matching Paradigm C-170 center and an SVS 25-31 PC+ (tuned to 20Hz - equalized with a BFD) driven by a Yamaha receiver.

Over the past 9 months or so, I've been poking around looking to see if I could find a replacement for the Atoms mains that would fit in (well enough) with the rest of the system for 5.1 movies and still provide a step up for 2.1 channel music listening without breaking the bank.

I was seriously considering the 340SEs and I even convinced a fellow Napervillian to let me into his house to listen to his. I found them to be too bright (or something) for my tastes. (This coming from a guy with Paradigms being driven by a Yammie!). Regardless, they just didn't work for me.

I also listened very briefly to some Monitor Audio Silver RS-6 (?) and Bronze B-4s, iirc. I found them a bit too harsh for my tastes. I also checked out the new Paradigm Monitor 7 speakers. They were way too harsh. And, I auditioned some PSB T-55s in my home for a long weekend. They sounded nice, but as a floorstander they were a bit too big for my room and they didn't provide enough of a sound upgrade to justify buying them. The bottom line for me at this point was that I found, for the money, the Atoms really worked for me and so I kind of put the upgrade idea on the shelf.

Then, these Sierras came out and I really liked what I read about them. I also really liked how they weren't announced until they were ready to be ordered. It reaffirmed my generally good feelings about Ascend as a company.

So, rather impulsively - for me anyway, I ordered a pair. I figured even if I decide to send them back, it'll only cost me about $2/day in shipping costs to trial them in my home.

The early exit polls are good. But, I haven't had a chance to do any real critical listening yet. Once I do, I'll bore you further with my thoughts.


Mitch

[curtis]

Set them to large and shut off the sub.....

[steveklein]

Set them to large and shut off the sub.....


hey curtis... do the sierras deliver that well in the bass department? the svs subs are no slouches... do you think getting the sierras across the front means i may not have to buy a subwoofer? that'd be great because i kind of think subs are big/ugly... not to mention $500 and up for a good one from Hsu or SVS.

[muzz]

hey curtis... do the sierras deliver that well in the bass department? the svs subs are no slouches... do you think getting the sierras across the front means i may not have to buy a subwoofer? that'd be great because i kind of think subs are big/ugly... not to mention $500 and up for a good one from Hsu or SVS.

It depends on what ya need, if Home Theater is your bag, then in no way should you be without a sub...... for stereo listening? I THINK he's stating that Ya really don't NEED a sub.
I guess the Articulation of the Sierras is so good, that a mediocre sub(even a good sub for that matter), is a bit muddy in comparison for music..........

Maybe I'm wrong, but thats what it seems like to me.

HTH

[Quinn]

Muzz hit it. It is going to take a nice sub to match the Sierra's articulation. Then it is pretty specific music that has much content below 40Hz.

Now then the Sierras are not bumped up in bass but balanced top to bottom. If you like your bass to be a tad above everything else you'll want a different speaker or a sub.

[muzz]

Muzz hit it. It is going to take a nice sub to match the Sierra's articulation. Then it is pretty specific music that has much content below 40Hz.


Like the bamboo ryhtmic I've been planning ( for months) to build? :D

hehehehe

[Johnal]

Last Sunday (05-27-07) I was able to drive up to Curtis’ place to get a listen to the Sierra-1’s. I brought over a pair of 340 classics to do some comparing, and I was pleasantly surprised with all aspects of my listening experience. The 340 classics are great speakers and they’ve served me well over these past few years, but the Sierra’s are obviously the next step in the evolution of Ascend Acoustic speakers.

I’ve always felt that the 340 classics were missing a little bit of “punch” on the lower end of the spectrum, but it’s never really hindered my listening experience since I use a PC-Ultra to complement my setup. While at Curtis’ place I spent a couple hours playing music that I was very familiar with and I was first blown away by how full sounding the Sierra’s sounded without the use of a subwoofer. They were crisp, clean, and accurate sounding through and through.

As my audition continued it became more and more apparent how clear sounding these speakers really were. Not to sound cliché, but I found myself hearing things I had never heard before in my music. These subtle details brought me back to what it was like the first time I heard great sounds from the 170s and 340s. Ascend Acoustics is constantly raising the bar on the products they deliver. I left Curtis’ eager and anxious to get a set of Sierra’s for myself.

Yesterday evening I swapped out my 340s for some B-stock Sierra L/C/R from James. I raced home to set them up and see how they would sound in my room’s layout. The clarity was just as awesome as I recalled from my listening experience on Sunday and I couldn’t be happier. They look great, and they sound great! What else could I ask for?

[muzz]

God Johnal, your killing me!!

I'm listening to Nora right now, daydreaming about my Sierras that won't be here until next Wednesday!!

You just ruined my high, I hope your happy!! :D ;)

[curtis]

all I made Johnal do was clean the bathrooms! :D

He brought over some music that I do not normally listen to....gave the Sierras a good workout.

[brehms]

Last Sunday (05-27-07) I was able to drive up to Curtis’ place to get a listen to the Sierra-1’s. I brought over a pair of 340 classics to do some comparing, and I was pleasantly surprised with all aspects of my listening experience. The 340 classics are great speakers and they’ve served me well over these past few years, but the Sierra’s are obviously the next step in the evolution of Ascend Acoustic speakers.
I’ve always felt that the 340 classics were missing a little bit of “punch” on the lower end of the spectrum, but it’s never really hindered my listening experience since I use a PC-Ultra to complement my setup. While at Curtis’ place I spent a couple hours playing music that I was very familiar with and I was first blown away by how full sounding the Sierra’s sounded without the use of a subwoofer. They were crisp, clean, and accurate sounding through and through.
As my audition continued it became more and more apparent how clear sounding these speakers really were. Not to sound cliché, but I found myself hearing things I had never heard before in my music. These subtle details brought me back to what it was like the first time I heard great sounds from the 170s and 340s. Ascend Acoustics is constantly raising the bar on the products they deliver. I left Curtis’ eager and anxious to get a set of Sierra’s for myself.

lol, I think you were the guy who showed up as my wife and I were leaving Curtis's place Sunday. I am the super tall guy with the short blond.

As for my experience, The Sierra's are very close to the sound quality of my pro speakers. I was able to hear all the same details, instruments sounded like real instruments, and voices sounded like voices. We auditioned alot of speakers up to $2400/ea, and you'd be suprised at how often most fail at properly reproducing various instruments and voices. The one area the Sierra's surpassed my speakers is in imaging / soundstage, the fact that they are timber matched, and about 1/5th the size. Also, The WAF is exceptional. My pro speakers had a leg up though when it came to the low end, and overall db. They have single 12" woofers, except for my center which has 2.

Overall I am pleased with them, and about ready to pull the trigger. My wife and I want to hear the RBH MC-6C, and JBLpro LSR4300 1st though. Which will be this Sat.

Is there any more b-stock left or are they all sold out?

[curtis]

lol, I think you were the guy who showed up as my wife and I were leaving Curtis's place Sunday. I am the super tall guy with the short blond.
Yup.....Johnal showed up as you two were getting ready to leave. It just dawned on me that I didn't really introduce the three of you.....how rude....my apologies.

[Mitch G]

After several hours of listening, I have to say these are wonderful speakers.
I agree with the statements about the great imaging and clarity.

I've already come across two tracks that had sounds I had never heard before. In one case it was some acoustic guitar behind an acapella (sp?) part. I had never heard this guitar before and seriously started wondering if it was coming from some other system in the house or neighborhood.

Now, in all fairness, I am upgrading from Atoms which are about a third of the price, so I better be hearing an improvement. But, as I stated in my previous post, when listening to other speakers priced closer to the Sierras, I didn't notice such an improvement.

So far continues to be so good. :)


Mitch

[Dread Pirate Robert]

I was seriously considering the 340SEs and I even convinced a fellow Napervillian to let me into his house to listen to his. I found them to be too bright (or something) for my tastes.

Out of curiosity, what did you guys listen to during the session? Personally, I've found that source material that has a lot of clipping sounds particularly bad on my 170SEs. I'm pretty sure it's the clipping because I have both the original and remastered (into clipping! :mad: ) versions of some pieces of music, as well as the clipped CD and non-clipped DVD versions of other pieces of music (checked afterwards by ripping/decoding and visually examining the waveforms), and the clipped versions invariably sound really harsh to me. On my other speakers, such material sounds annoying and lacking in dynamics, but the 170SEs are not nearly as forgiving.


(This coming from a guy with Paradigms being driven by a Yammie!). Regardless, they just didn't work for me.

Obviously, tonal balance can also make speakers and receivers sound warm or bright (or both--the Paradigms I've auditioned generally had a laid-back midrange, sort of a built-in "loudness" function), but all Ascend speakers are designed to be as neutral and balanced as they come in this regard (and actually measure as such). I'm not arguing against what you heard, of course--just wondering out loud about the nature of auditory perception (as well as recording and mastering practices).


Then, these Sierras came out and I really liked what I read about them.
...
The early exit polls are good. But, I haven't had a chance to do any real critical listening yet. Once I do, I'll bore you further with my thoughts.

If possible, could you listen to the same source material with which you auditioned the 340SEs?

[Mitch G]

It was a while ago that I listened to the 340SEs, but material probably consisted of The Shins, Alison Krauss, Jenny Lewis, Secret Machines (possibly?), The Ditty Bops, maybe some Pixies and/or Nirvana. In other words, rock and acoustic stuff. Now, I don't know what you mean by "clipping" in this context. So, I don't know if any of these recordings fit that category.

Auditory perception is the crux of the problem of describing speakers, isn't it? :) What you hear and what I hear are affected by everything from age to aural abuse (I'm still feeling the effects of sitting front row at that Cars concert in high school) to simply what sort of sounds you like. (I'm more a fan of mezzo as opposed to soprano - viola vs violin, for example). It's funny you describe Paradigms as laid back. Everyone describes them as bright and Yamaha receivers as bright, yet from what I understand of "bright" I always thought my Atoms sounded pretty even keeled - laid back, I suppose. And, when I heard the 340s I found them relatively brighter.

I have been listening to the same basic set of material on the Sierras and I would say that I definitely like the Sierras' sound better than what I remember of the 340s. They are fuller sounding. There's a brightness there, but the lower frequencies balance it out quite well. And, there are a bunch of other variables at play here as well. For one I listened to the 340s in someone else's house while the Sierras are right here in my family room. I used CDs when listening to the 340s while here in my house I'm streaming FLAC through a Squeezebox with a toslink to my receiver.

Anyway, I'm listening to Alison Krauss and Union Station right now and they sound lovely. :)

Hope this helps,


Mitch

[Dread Pirate Robert]

It was a while ago that I listened to the 340SEs, but material probably consisted of The Shins, Alison Krauss, Jenny Lewis, Secret Machines (possibly?), The Ditty Bops, maybe some Pixies and/or Nirvana. In other words, rock and acoustic stuff.

I'd have to do some research, but I'd imagine that the acoustic material would probably have reasonable mastering, while the rock might have some amount (possibly a great deal) of digital clipping.


Now, I don't know what you mean by "clipping" in this context. So, I don't know if any of these recordings fit that category.

Digital formats all have an absolute numerical (integral) limit to their headroom, and for well over a decade now, engineers have been mastering CDs at such a loud (and always increasing) level that the waveforms have been clipped in the digital domain, often rather brutally. This mostly affects rock and other "popular" music, and as a result of this so-called "loudness war," many modern CDs actually do sound markedly inferior to their increasingly rare vinyl counterparts. :mad: I'm sure that analog pundits would love to know that they're right after all, but obviously it's for the wrong reasons.


Auditory perception is the crux of the problem of describing speakers, isn't it? :) What you hear and what I hear are affected by everything from age to aural abuse (I'm still feeling the effects of sitting front row at that Cars concert in high school) to simply what sort of sounds you like. (I'm more a fan of mezzo as opposed to soprano - viola vs violin, for example).

You're right, although from what I've seen, this goes beyond what we can physically hear and what we prefer. We all have a reference to what things really sound like (i.e. using our ears in the real, live, unrecorded world), but there are still differences in what each of us perceive as realistic with regard to the reproduction of sound.


It's funny you describe Paradigms as laid back. Everyone describes them as bright and Yamaha receivers as bright,

Semantics might be an issue here. In my opinion, Paradigms are generally "laid-back" in the midrange, and a bit hot in the treble and upper bass regions--without looking at any graphs, I'd say they seem to exhibit a relatively mild "smile" or "loudness" curve that many people subjectively find rather pleasing. Overall, most of the high-end models do sound somewhat brighter than neutral to me on any sound with sufficient harmonic content (they certainly would on a Yamaha receiver, based on the Yamahas I've heard), while my Ascends sound as absolutely neutral (to me) on well recorded material as any speaker I've ever heard.


yet from what I understand of "bright" I always thought my Atoms sounded pretty even keeled - laid back, I suppose. And, when I heard the 340s I found them relatively brighter.

The Atoms I've heard (long ago--I don't know about later versions) definitely sounded warmer than the high-end models, and while they still seemed to have the "loudness" curve at lower volumes, they seemed to get comparatively shy in the treble when pushed. I'm not sure as to whether this was a function of volume, the amount of treble content in the source, or something else altogether. I actually haven't heard the 340SE, but the 170SE, which is said to sound very similar, is more neutral than the Atom at all volume levels, in my opinion, and if anything, is definitely not shy when pushed in the treble region.

A much more extreme example to consider is the cheap, cheesy set of computer speakers that I got for free with a computer system. While it makes human voices sound much brighter than they do on the 170SE, it doesn't sound nearly as "bright" or "sparkly" when playing material that actually contains a lot of detailed treble. Certainly for this comparison, I would consider the 170SE to be more accurate.

So there's volume to be considered, possibly, as well as certain characteristics of the source material that I'm finding difficult to cohesively reconcile with what I and others hear (especially since we're not doing a controlled scientific study, obviously). For example, with many TV soundtracks, which are not known to be great recordings, the 170SE can sound rather "crunchy" at times (some would describe this as "bright")--voices can take on a harsh, tinny quality that we just don't hear in real life. This is something that I do NOT hear on the 170SE at all with good recordings. Being a hobbyist, whenever I notice this specific characteristic, I try to detect the same thing on my headphones, and in every case so far, I have been able to hear this "crunchiness" in the headphones, only not as pronounced. Because known good recordings do not have this characteristic on either the 170SE or the headphones (to my ears and perception), I'm inclined to attribute it to the source. Similarly, digital clipping, which I mentioned earlier, is most definitely a characteristic of the source, and sounds awful to me on the 170SE.


I have been listening to the same basic set of material on the Sierras and I would say that I definitely like the Sierras' sound better than what I remember of the 340s. They are fuller sounding. There's a brightness there, but the lower frequencies balance it out quite well.

Generally, the tonal balance of a speaker can really only be evaluated within its frequency range, and undoubtedly the Sierra-1 is more capable at the lower end, where some would say that the other Ascend speakers are a bit shy when pushed (the cost of using extremely lightweight woofers, I suppose). What I'm starting to wonder, though, is whether the 170SE and 340SE seem overly bright to some not so much as a result of tonal balance but because of some kind of oversensitivity to flaws in the source material. Obviously, the next question is whether the Sierra-1 also exhibits this characteristic, and to what degree. Can it be more detailed yet more forgiving at the same time?


Anyway, I'm listening to Alison Krauss and Union Station right now and they sound lovely. :)

And that's what's important in the end. :) Thanks for your input, by the way. I might have to find out whether there's a valid, feasible way to make some sense out of all of this (probably not, but I can try!).

[Mitch G]

DPR:
Nice post.
As far as clipping is concerned, then yes I would agree that some of the rock I listen to is clipped.

I should probably do some A-B with the Atoms just for snicks and see if I notice any smiles besides the one on my face. :) <- Or that one.



Mitch

[ebh]

It was a while ago that I listened to the 340SEs, but material probably consisted of The Shins, Alison Krauss, Jenny Lewis, Secret Machines (possibly?), The Ditty Bops, maybe some Pixies and/or Nirvana. In other words, rock and acoustic stuff. Now, I don't know what you mean by "clipping" in this context. So, I don't know if any of these recordings fit that category.


just from my experience with some of that music, i find the shins and pixies to be generally well-recorded. however, i was disappointed when i put the secret machines on my 170s. was expecting "first wave intact" to just sound punishingly intense, but it seemed muddled. same with the new arcade fire CD. I saw them last night and the sea of instrumentation was amazing and powerful, but the intensity doesn't come through very well on the CD.

The Shins and Pixies (at least surfer rosa) I think are good rock records to demo speakers with imo (i.e. I don't think there is much clipping tho i could be totally wrong--this is just from what I hear out of my speakers). I highly suspect the Secret Machines have a lot of clipping/dynamic compression. or maybe just a poor engineer.

[Mitch G]

Your assessment of the Shins, Pixies and Secret Machines is consistent with what I found. Although the Shins' "Oh Inverted World" is a bit muddy.


Mitch

[ebh]

Your assessment of the Shins, Pixies and Secret Machines is consistent with what I found. Although the Shins' "Oh Inverted World" is a bit muddy.


Mitch

maybe so--i'll have to go back and listen. i was thinking of their most recent album, which i thought sounded pretty decent. good dynamics and imaging.

[JasonColeman]

The new album is a totally different animal from both their first and second albums. Though they're still on SubPop, they've used different studios and have had different people do the mastering. The first two albums were recorded in Mercer's basement (and portions in a Seattle studio), the new album was recorded entirely in a Portland studio with a new producer.

OK, back to the thread...what are people using for stands for their Sierras? I've been contemplating building bamboo-veneered or bamboo plywood stands, but if there's a good option out there that would save me the time and runaround I'm interested.

Thanks,

J.

[muzz]

Good luck on the bamboo Veneer way..

Bamboo ISN'T wood, it is grass, and is cut, dried, and pressed (with glue)on a machine.

I've used it, and ya probably better off just going to a Floor dealer, and seeing if they have any long enough cutoffs for stands, and using a finetooth table saw(or better yet, have someone with a CNC cut it for you) to cutoff the tongue/groove.
And then using Bosticks Best(the BEST floor Glue- about $150 for 5 gallons, IF you can even find it) flooring glue to glue it together(with clamps).
You can probably use other glue and clamp, but Bosticks is the ballz.....

Isn't as EZ as it sounds when dealing with Bamboo, that much I know for certain.

[muzz]

BTW- For folks that are looking to match the color of the Sierras(IF they are the same color as MY Vertical carbonized Bamboo floor), I have what I feel is a good match...
Plain Red Oak, with 2 coats of Matte/Satin Poly.....

Thats it.

I have pics of my vertical carbonized bamboo floor,and I used The afforementioned threshold(OBVIOUSLY the grain isn't the exact same, but the color is very close IMO).

LMK if ya need to see them.

Actually,Curtis could you host the pics of my threshold?

[curtis]

Yup...they should show up here sometime soon...I hope.

http://changpics.smugmug.com/gallery/2938302#P-2-15

[muzz]

Thx bro

I realise my color match puddy is awful.......
One of these days I'll fix that!!

[Mitch G]

This thread's been kind of quiet lately, so I thought I would post my week 1 impressions. I received my speakers a week ago and have pumped at least 20 hours of music through them as well as a couple of movies and regular TV viewing. I'm happy to report that they mesh well enough with my Paradigm center and surrounds for TV and 5.1. But, my real goal for these was for 2.1 music and for this they are fabulous. I've really been enjoying the imaging and sound quality that these speakers produce. Even less than stellar recordings like Pink Floyd's Atom Heart Mother sound better than ever before. So, if you were hoping for a pair of b-stock returned naturals, you'll have to look elsewhere. :)

Oh, and in case anyone cares, I have them on Omnimount Cosmic 24" stands. These stands have a "brushed" silver post and black base which matches well with my Sony LCD RPTV silver and matte black detail. They are a bit top heavy with the Sierras on them - even with the post filled with fish gravel. But, in my layout there's really no danger of someone bumping into them causing them to topple over.


Mitch

[curtis]

I don't feel I can say enough about them. IMO, an outstanding speaker compared to what I have heard.

They simply need to be heard and compared.

[tanaka]

Well, while I'm waiting here for the sierras to arrive(may be a while since it probably won't be till next week) I figured I'd register and post. :rolleyes:

I wanted to buy my dad a set of bookshelves as a gift. He likes music but he's not insane about it like me. So my original budget was to keep the speakers between 3 and 4 hundred dollars. But with amp and everything I wanted to keep it under 800. ;)

I was reading around on avs about 2 months ago and started thinking about getting some bookshelves from a certain company there that has a pretty big presence. After reading a while I came to the realization that Dave F. handled himself in one manner and lets just say other people from other companies handled themselves in another manner. :mad:

This made me want to look into ascend more fully. I originally was looking into getting the cbm 170 se but I'm really glad I waited now because after reading all of the wonderful things being said about the sierras I just had to order a pair. :D

I ordered monday and there were cable issues so my order got revised on tuesday. No word yet on when they will be sent out but I live in an area that takes 5 days for them to get here. So needless to say I'm very anxious esspecially since I have this week off and the next, and was hoping to give them a thorough listen before giving them to my dad. :eek:

Heres hoping they arrive soon! :)

[Mitch G]

Hehe, I bet you'll be picking up a couple of speakers from Best Buy to give your dad after you listen to the Sierras. :)


Mitch

[brehms]

When you ordered them, did they say weither or not they received their order of tweeters?

hmm...I wonder if there is going to be a fathers day special? lol.

[tanaka]

Your mentioning of the tweeters is the first I've heard about it. You mean there is a back-log on parts? :(

DANG. :( :( :(

[tanaka]

Ok I'm replying to myself now because the waiting is killing me.
I guess everyone is listening to their sierras. (insert crying face here)

Where was the info about the tweeters posted?

My order was put in tuesday. Any chance I'll get the sierras next week? I live in PA.
I'll be back to check for the flood of responses right after I replace this soaking wet hanky.

[curtis]

I would call and ask.

I would much rather be listening to my Sierras than working, but I felt that way about the 340's too.

[steveklein]

Ok I'm replying to myself now because the waiting is killing me.
I guess everyone is listening to their sierras. (insert crying face here)

Where was the info about the tweeters posted?

My order was put in tuesday. Any chance I'll get the sierras next week? I live in PA.
I'll be back to check for the flood of responses right after I replace this soaking wet hanky.


lol. your entire post is ridiculous

[tanaka]

lol. your entire post is ridiculous

:D :D :D

[DarkWolf]

I called right now and he said the tweeters had come in on Thursday. I ordered on Wednesday of last week and he said they should be going out on Tuesday.

[ravingndrooling]

Mr. UPS man was at my house yesterday!! I have only had a few hours with them but love them so far! I was really surprized at the BUEATY of the bamboo. It looks alot better up on stands in MY room. Time to go listen some more!! :D

[tanaka]

I called right now and he said the tweeters had come in on Thursday. I ordered on Wednesday of last week and he said they should be going out on Tuesday.


Thanks for the info. Hopefully, if they do go out this tuesday, I might get them by friday or saturday.

[tanaka]

Mr. UPS man was at my house yesterday!! I have only had a few hours with them but love them so far! I was really surprized at the BUEATY of the bamboo. It looks alot better up on stands in MY room. Time to go listen some more!! :D



WELL.....Give those of us that are still waiting some more info! These forums are our only solace while we are experiencing sierra depravation. Get some photos too! I love the way the bamboo looks in the pictures. I've ordered the naturals myself.

[curtis]

Here's a downside to my Sierras:

In the three to four years with my CBM-170's and CMT-340's, I only dusted them occasionally, and maybe wiped them down with a damp cloth a few times.

In the three weeks or so with the Sierras, I have already used furniture cleaner/polish on them a few times....today because I have people coming over to check them out. :)

[DPlettner]

I've been very happy with how easy it has been to care for the piano black Sierras. The speakers were perfectly clean out of the box, and they came with cotton gloves. I used the cotton gloves to put the speakers in place, and I haven't touched them them.

I have had the speakers almost two weeks, and twice I just ran a Swiffer duster over them. It works great, and it only takes about five seconds per speaker.

The cotton gloves make the speakers VERY slippery. I wonder how the workers avoiding dropping a few.

-Dave

[Mike^S]

Hmm, I have been dusting mine about 3 to 4 times a day. Is that too much? :confused:

btw, great get-together today Curtis. I really enjoyed hearing the Sierras vs those other speakers.

[Mitch G]

I trust there'll be a little review/comparo thread popping up from the forementioned gtg?


Mitch

[curtis]

I trust there'll be a little review/comparo thread popping up from the forementioned gtg?

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=23516&postcount=2

[Mag_Neato]

OK.......I have moved in to my new place and set up the Sierras. They are not going to stay where they are most likely, but I played them with a few things. The most striking quality to me was the bass response. Deep, punchy and articulate. I have not felt the urge to set up my sub. The midrange and highs are spot on as well. They play bigger than they appear, and sound better the louder I crank them. No strain at all, and the tweeter never sounded harsh yet delivered detailed highs. This is from brief, informal listening. Speakers are too close to the wall and the right speaker behind an angled loveseat in the corner.

The only problem now is a result of the new AQOUS LCD TV. It appears there is a lip sync issue with certain sources(DVD), and I may need to replace my Denon receiver with a model that has a delay feature.

[Mag_Neato]

These Sierras are incredible! The bass in particular just keeps suprising me. I still have not hooked up my sub. It will add some bottom end rumble, no question, but not by much. If these sound good with a mid-priced Denon receiver I am wondering what a seperate amp will do for them.

OK Dave.......when is the bamboo sub coming? ;)

[tanaka]

Finally was able to get back to the forums, don't have internet access at my place...

Nice responses all and I cant wait to get mine! I hope ups is carefull with the speakers. Man would it be a bummer if they arrived damaged.
I'm going to do what I can to try to lessen the chance of damage by driving to ups and asking them to hold the package for pickup. I'ts about 35 minutes away and I can get them first thing in the morning hopefully instead of waiting around all day for them to arrive.
I got a call from ascend monday saying that they were going out that day. That means ups should get it by friday over here. :D

[curtis]

For me, I have gotten used to the quality of the bass.....I expect it now. The items that catch me now are resolution, detail, and transparency.

And when I actually get to sit down and listen..the imaging is great too.

[Johnal]

I love the Sierra speakers. I've only just begun to get into the multi-channel listening experience associated with SACD/DVD-Audio and i'm so curious how having Sierra's for all 5 speakers would sound...i'm jealous of some of you guys who already have that!

[steveklein]

woohoo...

so i placed my order for some piano black b-stock sierras and htm-200 rears as ascend was closing down shop on june 5th. because it was b-stock, i was quoted a 3-4week before my item would ship. that was fine...

so i don't even check my email for like the last week... turns out they were shipped on tuesday (!!!!) just a week after i ordered them and they will be here on monday! wowowowow.... im so excited. these speakers are gonna go great with my samsung lcd which has a piano black finish as well :)

[Mike^S]

Congratulations! I just added a Sierra center channel to my setup. So now I have three piano black Sierras across the front. I'm not using any rears right now.

[tanaka]

Wow, just wow. :eek:

I've had the sierras in natural finish since friday morning and I've probably listened for around 10 hours so far.

When I first took them out the first thing I thought was "They look THIS good?!" I know other people have said it but pictures do not do these beauties justice. The craftsmanship just looks and feels top notch too.
While listening it was hard not to just admire these things and wonder what the retail on a speaker like this Would have cost me.

I started throwing all kinds of stuff at them right away.
My favorite female singers singing old songs from italian operas.
Trance and electronica.
Soft and hard rock.
Ambient.
Some stuff that might defy classification.
And classical.

First of all,
Everyone keeps talking about the bass. "The bass is tight" "these things go low" etc etc. Well, there is a reason for that...its all true.
The sierras go really low. And for their size it's trully surprising.
The other surprising thing is that no matter how much bass you throw at them it never overwelms the midrange, every peice of the music still remained distinct and clear.
I've heard on some speakers, when a low sound comes in and a vocal is also overlapping it that the purity of the voice is a bit compromised. It's hard to explain exactly but, the sound becomes blurry at a point.
This Never happened with the sierras.

2nd of all,
The sierras are clean and detailed. I kindoff already alluded to this in typing about the bass but I need to mention it further here.
I really like clean sound. I actually almost bought some studio monitors in the past but ultimately went with the gallo 3.1s because of musicality and some other reasons I won't mention here.
The problem with some monitors is that they are SO clean that they end up sounding sterile, thin, etc. Not exactly what you want to listen to for hours.
The sierras, remarkably, stay clean and detailed without losing musicality. In my tests listening for details that are revealed with my gallos the sierras actually brought out some of the detailes even better than they did. That is trully amazing considering that the gallos cost more than 3x the amount!
The sierras were cleaner and a tad brighter than (what I would consider to be) my neutral gallos. I love my gallos though, and they are better in other respects (for me).

I could go on but I'll leave it here. These speakers are for my dad and I would be shocked if he didn't like them. I'll be keeping my gallos because for me, they are still the right speaker. If in the future I was in the market for a bookshelf, the sierras would be at the top of the list.

Anyone out there that is still on the fence, I must tell you that if you can afford to buy a pair,(and they are an enormous bargain) you Will Not regret it! You simply will not find a better speaker in store for 2x the price, and maybe even 3x.