Help me with my next upgrade

[MichaelG]

I am very happy with my system and sound but if I should decide to upgrade I'm not sure what will give me the best bang for the buck.

My System:

Speakers: 340SE L/C/R, 170's for surrounds (5.1)
Sub: Sony SAWX700
Receiver: Sony SDR-DE998
DVD: Sony DVPNS70H
CD: Sony SCD-CE595 (SACD)
The room is 14w X 22D X 9H

Obviously the awesome part is Ascend. My current thoughts have been either to upgrade the sub to a HSU VTF3-MKII or to upgrade the Receiver to an HK 635 or something stronger. Neither is an issue or problem but I can't help but wonder if I would get a significant difference from either upgrade or something else I am missing. I do have GIK treatments to help with first reflection points and corner. I watch movies and listen to quite a bit of music. My taste is more country and jazz rather than rock in music.

Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.

Michael

[Mag_Neato]

I'm thinking the sub would be my first upgrade. Go for it!

[curtis]

I would lean more towards a sub, but I do not know much about that receiver, so I would investigate that as well.

[bikeman]

I'm not a fan of Sony receivers but it'll get the job done and the sub will make a world of difference. Let us know what you decide.

David

[MichaelG]

Thanks for the input!

Its funny but my audio knowledge and experience was pretty limited for many years (and still is!). I bought a Sony component system 12 years ago and it was fine. When the receiver and sub finally failed I figured that I would replace them with like components. :o They aren't the dregs but over time I have realized through reading forums that I might have made other choices, a bit more money but better audio quality.

I am leaning towards the sub too but will I notice a big difference? The sub is a unique Sony with dual 10" woofers, one forward firing and one down firing. It is a sealed design and goes down to about 30hz according to the SPL meter (please don't push me for much more info though). Was highly rated on Circuit City a year ago and not poorly thought of but when I read about the HSU, it seems like it would be a significant upgrade. My room is directly below my wife's living room so more thump is less important than sound quality if that makes any sense.

Michael

[bikeman]

I haven't heard the Sony so I don't speak from first hand experience but I'd be more than mildly surprised if The Hsu wasn't a very noticeable improvment. The best way to tell (for me) is to use the Hsu everyday for two weeks and then put the Sony back into the system. You should have your answer pretty quick.

David

[BGHD]

Is this your receiver?

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-STR-DE998-Channel-Surround-Receiver/dp/B0007Y6AO4

If so, I'd upgrade the sub. The receiver looks decent enough on paper. Personally, I'm waiting for the HDDVD/BD format wars to work itself out then plan on buying the player and receiver at the same time to ensure full HDMI compatibility.

[MichaelG]

Yes, that is my receiver. My sub is:

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SAWX700-Watt-Active-Subwoofer/dp/B0000VB7NS/sr=8-1/qid=1172379142/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-0352060-3456661?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

I think you are making a good decision to wait. I had my old receiver and sub fail and didn't take enough time to research. Getting HDMI switching and audio would be my choice today!

Michael

[picasso]

My $.02 is you'd prefer a receiver upgrade which incorporates a high current output.

With 30 day trial periods, you can try both.

Let us know how it worked out for you.

[tp7539]

I agree, for the immediate, more noticeable impact to your audio quality of your system.....and an upgrade of your sub is probably the right way to go.

But I was curious to know what your budget was for either item. For me I'd want to spend $750 - $1000 on a new receiver, but could see only spending about $500 on the new sub, with my 15' x 22' room in mind. And just because I'm a little obsessed with 'completing' a system (although I'm sure it's never truly complete), if I had the money, I'd likely spend it on the more expensive receiver first (get the larger purchase out of the way). And my thinking would be that I'd be more likely to follow up with the lower cost purchase of the sub sooner rather than later. This logic is of course flawed, but this is just what would make me 'feel better' about my own system.

[MichaelG]

After much thought I decided to go with upgrading my sub first. Seemed like the biggest bang for the buck! I did enjoy reading every possible review first.

I decided to go with an HSU VTF3 MKII. Just like when I researched the Ascends, there were no negative comments from anyone that owned one that I could see. Sounds like it will blend very well with my Ascends.

I was going to get the HSU VTF2 MKIII but they were out of stock so spent the extra $59 rather than wait. Now the hard part is sitting here waiting for delivery!

Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts!

Michael

[audibleconnoisseur]

All things being equal, you got about the same sub! The 2.3 is the 3.2 but with a 100W less rated amp. It has been updated and the sound is apparently similar. The 3.2 will have a slightly better ability to produce more spl, but apparently not really noticable to the ear. You will enjoy this sub!

[MichaelG]

Well, my VTF 3.2 came in yesterday, one day early. I let it warm up and then installed it in my left front corner, not far from my Sony SAWX700. I havn't moved it around yet (cause that sucker is heavy) and have only used an SPL meter to tune it 2dbs hot but here are my first thoughts.

Although 3 times what I paid for my Sony the VTF is a significant upgrade over my previous subwoofer.
1) It blends beautifully with the Ascends. With the Sony I could tell where is was if it was placed in the corner. It had to be placed inside the Ascends to help neutralize that issue. The VTF makes it appear the bass is coming from any of the 5 speakers.
2) A significant improvement in low lever sound quality. I found out that Diana Krall plays the piano with her left hand too! Lower keys are easy to hear and clear.
3) Improved soundstage. Music seems warmer and more complete.
4) Clarity is improved. Music is not boomy. Clear tones. My wife and daughter watched a couple of episodes of Stargate SG1 with me. My wife commented that her ears did not hurt. Apparently to get the effects I was looking for I had been playing it very loud.
5) More feel to the movie. I watched Batman Forever (working through the series) and you could feel the heat if that makes sense.

So team, thanks for helping me to make the right decision. I am very happy with my new system! Well worth the money!

Michael

[Classpro]

"My taste is more country and jazz rather than rock in music."

First thing to upgrade is your taste in music :-)

How about some classical suggestions?

But seriously, it's hard to know without hearing it what your sub or receiver sounds like. I have some older Sony stuff in the garage, and it was pretty bad sounding. Reliable as all getup, but acoustically very bland.

I'm a big fan of the new Panasonic digital receivers (XA-SR55 and SR57) for digital audio - they are very clean. I think they sound better than my far-more-expensive Marantz (which I suspect sounds better than your Sony and probably similar to the HK).

But there are some disadvantages to the Panasonics too (80hz is lowest crossover available, no separate xover settings for different speakers, no pre-amp out). They are available for under $200 on sale, so it's not that expensive to upgrade, and is a very impressive sounding unit for the money. I expect we're going to see a lot more and a lot better digital amplifier products in the future too. I also have some T-Amps, and they are nice too. I think digital amps are going to take over completely. They are that good.

I agree with the general consensus that a great sub would make a noticeable difference. I have an old cheap sub, and it obviously does not sound very tight. When playing a string bass, it doesn't sound like a string bass. Rumble without distinction. I suspect the better subs do a good job of producing bass sound accurately.

You might consider a smaller sub AND a new receiver. There is very little music down there at 20hz. I'd be happy with something that did 35-80hz very cleanly. Smaller subs may not be able to go as low or as loud, but they can move more quickly and so may do a better job in the higher bass regions. My cheap (but newer) 8" sub sounds much, much better than my cheap (older) 10" sub. MUCH better. I guess a 10,000 watt dual 15" sub might be enjoyable for watching the dinosaur walk by on a DVD or for scaring the neighbors, but for music in any normal size room I can't imagine needing more than a great quality 10" sub. And I like listening to organ music. I'm sure there are people who disagree.

I hope the rambling helps (probably not).

[BGHD]

I havn't moved it around yet (cause that sucker is heavy) and have only used an SPL meter to tune it 2dbs hot but here are my first thoughts.

Sounds like you spent your money well. Depending on your flooring, you can tip the sub on it's side, place it on a towel to drag it around. Also, I recommend the sub crawling method to find the best location.

Have you considered the Turbo upgrade? I haven't been keeping up, but seems like it's been avail for a while. From the pics I've seen, I don't think it'd fly with the WAF.

[MichaelG]

Not sure I need the turbo yet. Still enjoying the upgrade. I moved it around a lot yesterday. I played Avia frequency sweeps and tried to get the meter to stay somewhat centered. Overall, I found the most consistent response back where my old sub was however I'm not sure I like it as well as in the corner. It gets quite a boost in the low frequency in the corner but I like the sound and effect better.

I have a Gramma Isolation pad due in today. I have wood floors and figured it might help. We will see!

Michael

[bikeman]

I have a Gramma Isolation pad due in today. I have wood floors and figured it might help. We will see!Michael
The pad made a big difference with my 90 year old hardwood floors. Let us know the outcome.

David

[MichaelG]

My gramma acoustic pad arrived friday and it took about 1 minute to put it under the VTF3.2. I have a friend visiting so not able to do much comparison this weekend but it has tightened up the sound even more and I moved the sub back closer to the corner to provide more deep bass during March Madness. Love that snap of the ball through the net!

Gramma fits perfectly under the VTF and has removed any sense of boominess when the sub was in the corner (was never bad). It is a keeper!

Michael

[MichaelG]

I ended up placing the VTF3.2 where my last sub was as it gives me the most even response on frequency sweeps. I only used an SPL but feel really good about how it sounds. I did end up setting my crossover on the receiver to 80hz and turning the c/o on the sub to in and set to 90hz.

I had the enjoyment of watching War of the Worlds yesterday. :eek: With the old sub it was an intense movie. With the new VTF it is truly an experience! Even Gramma could not suppress the impact during the scene where the tripod comes out of the ground! My wife told me that she felt the vibration when she was trying to take a nap. I am in the basement and she is on the 2nd floor! Awesome! I may never go to a theatre again!

Music wise I really feel blessed to have such a great sound system. Everything is so crisp and clear. I have enjoyed listening to all my old DVD concerts and music!

HSU went out of stock on the VTF3.2 two days after I ordered so I guess I made my decision none to soon. They are out of stock on many of their subs right now and I can see why. They are an excellent match for the Ascends from my viewpoint!

Michael

[curtis]

I did end up setting my crossover on the receiver to 80hz and turning the c/o on the sub to in and set to 90hz.

Why are you using the crossover on the sub? You are now using two filters inline for the sub. How does it sound with the crossover on the sub set to "out"?

[MichaelG]

I read somewhere that using the crossover on the sub helped to reduce too much bass at the 80hz transition. I didn't do anything special to measure but it did seem to take away what sounded like an overemphasis of bass and cleared up the sound of voices and other instruments. It could be a receiver issue?

I honestly don't understand all the details of the filters so I may be doing it wrong. It merely sounded better too my ears. I am open though!

Michael

[curtis]

I'd like to read that post if you have a link to it.

The bottomline, if it sounds better to you, that's all that matters.

[MichaelG]

Thanks Curtis. I'll see if I can find it. I believe it was in the HSU forum but I have read sooo much in the last few weeks it may be a challenge! I doubt it was from an expert source, more likely someone had experimented and like it.

I did go back to check it with Avia sweeps and my spl meter. With the c/o out it shows a push of 3-4 decibels from 80hz down to 65. With it in I get a much flatter response. I do have a couple of 5-7 db dips in the higher levels at 120 hz and roughly 150 that I'm not too crazy about. I'm not sure how to remedy that but it will give me something to read about!

I also checked out the sound level on WOTW. I was listening around 70 db but when the tripod comes out it peaks near 100db! I never understood the significance of high output but I'm getting an idea.

Michael

[MichaelG]

First, I am incredibly happy with my current system. I have the 340SE's across the front and two 170SE's for surrounds. I chose the subwoofer (HSU 3.2) over the receiver as an upgrade and have been very happy. I have also added 3 more GIK 242 panels and truly love the sound and imaging. I listen to 90% music. 30% is SACD, 30% is 5.1 DVD concerts and the last 30% is 2.1 channel CD listening

Now reading about the Sierra's I am wondering what my next upgrade would be (this gets expensive doesn't it). I have a Sony STRDE-998 as a receiver.

My thoughts would either be the new Onkyo 605/805 or updgrade 2 speakers to Sierra 1's (about all I can afford on my next upgrade). Now my receiver will only do one crossover point for all speakers. That would limit me to a C/O of 80 if I replaced my two 340's. However, if I replace the 2 340's with the Sierra's and move the 340's to surround duty I could set the C/O to 60 for all speakers.

So my two questions that I would appreciate input on are:

Should I replace my receiver or upgrade my speakers first?

Will the addition of the 2 Sierra 1's as L/R speakers be a significant upgrade and integrate correctly in the way I have proposed or should I consider another approach?

Thank you!
Michael

[curtis]

What are you using as a SACD player at the moment?

If you were to go the Sierra route, and your listening habits as far as multi-channel goes(SACD/DVD concerts), I would suggest a Sierra center channel as well.

As for replacing the Sony...I don't know anything about it to offer any advice.

[MichaelG]

Thanks for responding Curtis! I am using a Sony CDP 595 for SACD. I have been pretty happy with it for SACD and CD.

Do you feel that the Sierra's won't integrate well with the 340SE center or that it would detract from 5 channel music? A Sierra center makes the cost of the upgrade a longer term solution but I wouldn't want to buy the two and not be happy.

Michael

[curtis]

Thanks for responding Curtis! I am using a Sony CDP 595 for SACD. I have been pretty happy with it for SACD and CD.

Do you feel that the Sierra's won't integrate well with the 340SE center or that it would detract from 5 channel music? A Sierra center makes the cost of the upgrade a longer term solution but I wouldn't want to buy the two and not be happy.

Michael
Not because they don't integrate well.....the match is better than most other companies that I have experienced with unlike centers and mains. It is just that the center channel is an important part of multichannel music and I think it should be treated like the L/R speakers as much as possible.

Have you thought about a universal disc player so that you can include DVD-A's in to your listening experience? That would be another nice upgrade option, especially since you like SACD's.

[MichaelG]

When I was looking at DVD-A I didn't see a very wide selection and it seemed that SACD provided the most options. I did not do a huge amount of research though. Do you have any suggestions that I might research? You are right that part of the upgrade is the system and another is the selection of music!

Michael

[curtis]

I think I have more DVD-A discs than SACD discs.

Have you seen this site?
http://www.highfidelityreview.com/reviews/index.asp