LFE and your Ascends/setup

[audibleconnoisseur]

All,

I just spoke with Denon about a few things and this was brought to my attention. I am posting here b/c it is the most read area and will apply to all of you with Denon and Ascend or other speakers. Maybe you know and maybe you don't, but I didn't and was a little surprised as well as this explains the mild, quiet pop sound I have heard with the HSU disk at the 16Hz and 20Hz tones... please read on and pay attention (if you know this, sorry, but I didn't and they agreed that the manuals do a poor job of explaining but coming from Japan, apparently something got lost in translation)...

I am explaing this as our Ascends (340SE's) drop to 45 but a lot of LFE is produced here and lower...

When using DENON and setting the LFE to your sub, connect as usual, LFE from receiver to LFE in on sub. Now, set ALL of the speakers to small that you are using and your desired choice of crossover Hz (60, 80, 100, etc.). NOTE that if you are using LARGE speakers, ALL LFE WILL GO TO ALL SPEAKERS SET TO LARGE REGARDLESS OF THE CROSSOVER SETTING FOR THE SUB!!! They said that if the setting is set to LFE + mains and the speakers to small, THEN & ONLY THEN is the crossover going to put all of the LFE into the sub and none to the Ascends (or whatever you own). I was under the impression from reading the manual that LFE+mains meant that LFE was going to the sub and the mains, it is in fact the other way around.

So when you are setting up, note that the crossover is set to your choice, 60Hz, 80Hz, whatever, and the sub should be set to LFE + mains and ALL other speakers to small so you are running all LFE to your sub only. If you set any of them to large, by default they will receive the full LFE from the receiver even with the crossover set at your choice! If you knew this great, if not, be warned and make the change. Obviously if you want the LFE to your mains, you will set it up this way but for those of us with Ascends, they can not handle the full spectrum so we need to use the above as a guide!

I strongly suggest anyone with DENON call to confirm so you know for certain. This is just what they told me about my 1905 and the DENON product!

[BradJudy]

Yep - this is how most receivers work, although not all of them have the LFE+main terminology. Many just have large vs small and a crossover setting. In general, small is the way to go, but when it comes down to it, use whatever you think sounds best (of course, there is a risk of blowing out a driver if you run bookshelf speakers full range to high volumes).

[audibleconnoisseur]

I tried what DENON said and I still get vibrations and movement from my drivers. I got movement all down to 16Hz on the Ascends through both drivers with LFE+mains and just LFE chosen. Got with small and large settings and all combinations inbetween. Bottom line is I am nervous I am putting through LFE to the sub and the speakers as I not only hear it via the Ascends, but feel it as well (lightly letting driver hit back of fingernail). Anyone else out there try this? I don't want to blow my system b/c I am pushing too much through them that should not. Anyone out there try this?

I did not ever unhook the sub, only turn off in the menue setting and use large/small on the mains and also left sub on in menu but turned to -12 and off with alternate sub adjustments. I am confused :confused:

[curtis]

Crossover setting?

You need to measure what is going on with an SPL meter.

[bri1270]

Turn your sub off and run a test tone lower than your crossover.

[Jonnyozero3]

Don't forget, it's a crossover with sloped filter (12dB per octave or 24dB, something like that), not a brick wall filter, so you will get a bandwidth of frequencies that are going to both the speakers and sub around the crossover setting. That said, 16Hz sounds a bit excessive to be going through to your mains - I'm surprised the Ascends are trying to reproduce that. Maybe it's a harmonic?

[SteveCallas]

Please explain a little more clearly what the Denon menu is asking of you. Under what option are you selecting LFE+Mains?

I'm not aware of any case in which LFE will get sent to all speakers, but it can be sent to the mains. To avoid this, have your speakers set to small and set LFE out to sub only.

[audibleconnoisseur]

In the DENON setup feature (button on remote around 2/3 way down on left hand side), go to option 12-15 (somewhere in this range) and it will ask you if you want LFE or LFE+mains. This is where I am a little confused b/c after testing wtih SPL and chaning the options, I still get a little movement from the drivers using SPL or SPL+mains. I was hoping to get NONE so all went to the sub. I will have to elaborate later, I have to head out for some things. Call DENON and they willl explain further as well. I would like a "concrete" answer myself!

[SteveCallas]

option 12-15 (somewhere in this range) and it will ask you if you want LFE or LFE+mains
It's asking you LFE or LFE+mains in regards to what though?

[Mag_Neato]

I thought of this thread over the weekend while watching a movie, so I checked the LFE setting on my Denon 885/2105. I had it set to "NORM". I switched it to "+ MAIN". From what I observed I thought the bass and overall clarity improved somewhat. If this is the correct setup for proper bass management, Denon's manuals need a big overhaul!

[drewface]

i don't have a sub yet, but i have experimented with the LFE settings on my yamaha receiver a little bit. from what i gather from this thread, it works the same way as the denon.

in my current setup, the auto-setup feature ends up setting all the speakers to large, meaning that when it runs its tests, they all output a wide enough range of frequencies in the receiver's opinion. (i normally run the auto-setup and then make a few tweeks based on my ears alone, don't have an SPL meter and Avia disc yet, i'm getting there, though) the bass sounds really nice with all the speakers set to large (remember, i don't have a sub yet). when i go through and switch some of the speakers to small, the bass takes a huge hit, even if it is just the surrounds.

should i not be running these speakers as large? i don't think i ever put an excessive amount of power through them, but i do like to turn up the volume at times, (mainly for movies)

[bikeman]

should i not be running these speakers as large? i don't think i ever put an excessive amount of power through them, but i do like to turn up the volume at times, (mainly for movies)
Without a sub, you definitely want to running large.

David

[drewface]

Without a sub, you definitely want to running large. alright, that's what i thought. this thread sort of got me worried that i could damage the speakers by running them as large, even though i read a lot about this sort of thing in the past and decided that i would be ok. :D it was mainly the 170s i was worried about. thanks

[audibleconnoisseur]

I know Mag Neato,

"I thought of this thread over the weekend while watching a movie, so I checked the LFE setting on my Denon 885/2105. I had it set to "NORM". I switched it to "+ MAIN". From what I observed I thought the bass and overall clarity improved somewhat. If this is the correct setup for proper bass management, Denon's manuals need a big overhaul"


Overhaul is what they were telling me. I would still verify with them in person (phone) but this is what I was told. I don't want to be responsible for anything going awry... I still find it strange!

[scottyh]

I have my Denon 2807 set to LFE+mains and sounds great. Hopefully this is right. I actually have another question though about my Denon setup. The default settings had the center at 60 hz, mains at 80hz, surrounds at 120 hz, and surr backs set to 90hz. Is this right? Or should I just set them all to 80hz? Thanks!

[debo]

I don't know which speakers you have but I would set the 340's at 80 or 60, 170's at 80, 200's at 80 or 100. Try 80 all the way around and see what you like. Auto setups don't do a very good job. Speaker frequency response determines crossovers not the receivers auto setup.

[Gov]

I have my Denon 2807 set to LFE+mains and sounds great. Hopefully this is right. I actually have another question though about my Denon setup. The default settings had the center at 60 hz, mains at 80hz, surrounds at 120 hz, and surr backs set to 90hz. Is this right? Or should I just set them all to 80hz? Thanks!

The different XO settings for your speakers are fine, as long as it is slightly above their lowest rated HZ. Example: for the 200's a 100HZ XO would probably be best, 170's an 80HZ and the 340's 60HZ or 80HZ. This is a general rule and may be different in your application

[audibleconnoisseur]

I have a Denon 1905 and I only am asked for one XO setting... I can use 60Hz, let's say, but not a mixture of different XO's for different speakers (mains, surround, rear, etc.). Is this the norm to have only one XO setting, or a multiple of settings for each set of speakers in your system?

[debo]

I can only speak for the receiver I have which is a Rotel and I can select a crossover for fronts,center surrounds and sub.

[curtis]

Most mid-fi receivers have a single global crossover for all the speakers. Some allow you to set different crossover points for sets of speakers such as L/R, center, and surrounds.

[cyberbri]

Yep - this is how most receivers work, although not all of them have the LFE+main terminology. Many just have large vs small and a crossover setting. In general, small is the way to go, but when it comes down to it, use whatever you think sounds best (of course, there is a risk of blowing out a driver if you run bookshelf speakers full range to high volumes).


I think the Denon is the exception, not the rule.

Normally in a receiver, bass from speakers set to Small gets sent to the sub/lfe. With all speakers set to Small, the only option for the sub is on/lfe. If any speakers are set to Large, then on the sub the options are LFE (lfe and re-routed bass from speakers set to small) or LFE+Mains or Both (LFE, plus bass from speakers set to Small AND Large).

At least that's how it works on my HK. There is no LFE+Mains option available unless some of the speakers are set to Large. That doubles up the bass.

[cyberbri]

I have a Denon 1905 and I only am asked for one XO setting... I can use 60Hz, let's say, but not a mixture of different XO's for different speakers (mains, surround, rear, etc.). Is this the norm to have only one XO setting, or a multiple of settings for each set of speakers in your system?


My HK AVR240 has independent crossover settings. I can keep this global for all sound modes, or do independent so the settings can be different for each sound mode.