340 to 340SE upgrade

[airs]

Anyone here done this? Would you say it was worth it? What sound differences can I expect? I currently have 340's as my L and R with a 340SE for my center. 170's (non-SE) are my surrounds.

Thanks,

Eric

[bikeman]

Anyone here done this? Would you say it was worth it? What sound differences can I expect? I currently have 340's as my L and R with a 340SE for my center. 170's (non-SE) are my surrounds.
Yep, I did it. The SE's are different but not night and day different. They do go a good 10db lower in my room. I don't use a sub for music so this is important to me.
With Ascend's return policy, I'd encourage anyone to A/B the Classics and the SE's. I can see some folks still prefering the Classics but I'm guessing that most will opt for the SE's. If you have a larger listening area or sit more than 10 feet from your speakers, I'm pretty sure the SE's will get the nod.
Dave F. has posted the differences and I really can't add anything of value to that.

David

[Jonnyozero3]

10dB lower huh? ;)

[audibleconnoisseur]

Yes, that 10Hz makes a big difference! I am glad mine drop into the 40's, that means I don't have to use the sub for most music...

[bikeman]

10dB lower huh? ;)
One should not write and do work at the same time. Brad and Curtis have caught me on some real blunders when I've been writing from my desk. Welcome to the club and I'm sure you won't be the last member. :o :p

David

[Jonnyozero3]

haha, it's all good. Was just a little funny :) :p

For our casual readers - he meant Hz, not dB.

[airs]

Found some more posts by DaveF and decided to bite the bullet ;)

[audibleconnoisseur]

you won't be disappointed! it is not the ringing bass that you may get from other speakers, but punchy and tight, as well as smooth on the high end. heads up, break them in before you really "get on them" or you will be making a second purchase!

FWIW, I found myself having some fun two nights ago at the speakers expense and with my Denon 1905, was pushing the speakers to peaks of 112dB! That is SERIOUSLY loud and I don't recommend doing this if you have an underpowered amplifier but the point is that they play very clean and smooth at this level and I sustained that dB for about three minutes during a particular Josh Groban song. The power in this man's voice at this level can be astonishing. They will play loud an proud or demure at your leisure, just learn quickly how far NOT to push them - then walk right up to that line all the time and have some fun :D


Let us know what you think but remember to play about 20-30 hours at moderate room levels before you open them up to test them!

[azanon]

Anyone here done this? Would you say it was worth it? What sound differences can I expect? I currently have 340's as my L and R with a 340SE for my center. 170's (non-SE) are my surrounds.

Thanks,

Eric

Would I say its worth it? No.

Off all the Ascends Ive owned so far, the one i enjoyed the most was my former 340C (non-SE) that i had to sell due to going from a CRT to an LCD. Forcing the vocals out of that speaker produced a beautiful, room filling sound.

I eventually "upgraded" my 170 regular L/R to 340 SE L/R and was thinking i'm going to regain at least the "vocal" power of my old 340 Center. To my ameteur ears, that just didn't happen.

So i didn't compare the two directly, but i can say it must not be that big a difference.

Finally, if you use a H/K like me, you're optimal crossover point for either speaker will be 60hz, since the SE's cant do 40hz at -3 db, so the new capabilities of the SE become mostly academic (though i acknowledge there is minor "spillover" of sound below crossover, it would be picked up by the sub regardless).

[chas]

So Azanon, are you saying you no longer have a center channel?

[Jonnyozero3]

Regarding crossover spillover - run a sweep from AVIA from 200Hz to 20Hz (at a normal volume level) and lightly leave your finger on the rubber surround on your left or right speaker. With my crossover set at 80Hz I can feel the cone reacting way, way down into the 40s (maybe 30s IIRC). It surprised me.

Just Gee Wiz for ya :)

[audibleconnoisseur]

I played the CD that came with the HSU sub and when it hits the 16Hz tones, I can hear a clicking or VERY quiet popping through the 340SE's. Thing is that I have the 340SE's hooked to the Denon 1905 and the D1905 was set for the mains to small and sub to yes, as well as crossover at 60Hz. I also use 80Hz depending. Still, one would think that when D1905 is set to small for mains, sub yes @ 60Hz, NO signals would go to the mains that are less than 60Hz. I am concerned that this might be or become an issue. Anyone else heard of this or can you help explain why this might be the case?

[azanon]

Regarding crossover spillover - run a sweep from AVIA from 200Hz to 20Hz (at a normal volume level) and lightly leave your finger on the rubber surround on your left or right speaker. With my crossover set at 80Hz I can feel the cone reacting way, way down into the 40s (maybe 30s IIRC). It surprised me.

Just Gee Wiz for ya :)

I dont doubt that, but my point was the sub is still picking up the same sound below 80hz (since you crossed it over), so having duplicated sound is probably just as much a bad thing as it is good.

Now for sub-less systems, i probably would upgrade. 10hz at that level would be a lot, if you have nothing else to pick it up.

Remember, we were told that Dr. HSU went with mere HTM-200s due to wanting to adhere more closely with Dolby specifications because the sub could handle the rest.

...............

To answer the other guy, i now have an HTM-200 center sitting directly on my LCD. I took a couple of pics in the sticky above. Now its definitely a downgrade from the old 340, but i much prefer it over "phantoming" the 340SE L/R.

[Jonnyozero3]

I played the CD that came with the HSU sub and when it hits the 16Hz tones, I can hear a clicking or VERY quiet popping through the 340SE's. Thing is that I have the 340SE's hooked to the Denon 1905 and the D1905 was set for the mains to small and sub to yes, as well as crossover at 60Hz. I also use 80Hz depending. Still, one would think that when D1905 is set to small for mains, sub yes @ 60Hz, NO signals would go to the mains that are less than 60Hz. I am concerned that this might be or become an issue. Anyone else heard of this or can you help explain why this might be the case?

Clicking or quiet popping doesn't sound normal, although I guess it could be noise in the recording.

However, with a crossover set at 60Hz, you WILL get plenty of sound below that out of your mains - even set to "small" and sub "yes" - because it's a sloped crossover, not a brickwall filter. The mains should be -12dB down or something at 60Hz, and will drop -12dB per octave below that, or something (numbers could be wrong, but you get the point). Try doing what I said above - run a sweep down from 200Hz and lightly leave your finger on a rubber surround on one of your L/R mains, you'll be surprised how low you feel movement.

[Jonnyozero3]

...............

To answer the other guy, i now have an HTM-200 center sitting directly on my LCD. I took a couple of pics in the sticky above. Now its definitely a downgrade from the old 340, but i much prefer it over "phantoming" the 340SE L/R.

Doesn't this go in the category of, "duh" ? :) (not meant in an offensive manner, however) Of course the cheaper, smaller, less extravagant HTM-200 is not going to sound as good as a big ole CMT-340SE. That's terrible to say there isn't a difference between the 340 classics and the SE's based on that comparison - it's just not apples to apples.

Edit - my comments apply to using 340SE's with a phatom center in comparison to having a 340 classic center, as well. Still not apples.

[bikeman]

To answer the other guy, i now have an HTM-200 center sitting directly on my LCD. I took a couple of pics in the sticky above. Now its definitely a downgrade from the old 340, but i much prefer it over "phantoming" the 340SE L/R.
I'm used to a 340C but just for the heck of it, I substituted one of my 200's as a center. I'd prefer phantoming to using the 200 as a center. I think the 200's make good L/R speakers when used with a decent sub and they are very good as surrounds but they just don't do it for me as a center. 340's have spoiled me and I'd rather go without than use a 200. If I wasn't used to the 340C, I might have a different opinion.

David

[MrTomasulo]

To me, the biggest improvement in the SEs over the Classics had nothing to do with the bass, but with the better tweeter. SEs are clearer and more open.

[azanon]

Doesn't this go in the category of, "duh" ? :) (not meant in an offensive manner, however) Of course the cheaper, smaller, less extravagant HTM-200 is not going to sound as good as a big ole CMT-340SE. That's terrible to say there isn't a difference between the 340 classics and the SE's based on that comparison - it's just not apples to apples.

Edit - my comments apply to using 340SE's with a phatom center in comparison to having a 340 classic center, as well. Still not apples.

If it went without saying, then why did you waste yet another post to state it again?

[azanon]

I'm used to a 340C but just for the heck of it, I substituted one of my 200's as a center. I'd prefer phantoming to using the 200 as a center. I think the 200's make good L/R speakers when used with a decent sub and they are very good as surrounds but they just don't do it for me as a center. 340's have spoiled me and I'd rather go without than use a 200. If I wasn't used to the 340C, I might have a different opinion.

David

I prefer my voice attached to the TV; not coming from the side of the room i'm sitting on. When you phantom, that's what happens. Even sitting in the center though, voices are not as attached.

The HTM-200 uses the same tweater as the old cbm 170, and has wider horizontal dispersion than a 170 used as a center. I also have a sub for bass. So for home theatre, the difference is hardly noticeable. For 6 channel music or DPL II music, obviously that's another matter all-together.

[azanon]

To me, the biggest improvement in the SEs over the Classics had nothing to do with the bass, but with the better tweeter. SEs are clearer and more open.

It probably matters for audio professionals. If i were being completely honest about it, i couldnt tell a difference.

Are you guys sure you could pass a "grill-on" a/b test between an old 340 and an SE and tell which is which? I probably couldnt. Heck, i'm liable to like the old one more if i were to do that.

[Jonnyozero3]

If it went without saying, then why did you waste yet another post to state it again?


Who's wasting posts? You told the OP that the SE's weren't worth upgrading to because of a false comparison. I said as much.

[bikeman]

I prefer my voice attached to the TV; not coming from the side of the room i'm sitting on. When you phantom, that's what happens. Even sitting in the center though, voices are not as attached.
I prefer the same as you. Our experience is different. I'll go with mine, you go with yours.


The HTM-200 uses the same tweater as the old cbm 170, and has wider horizontal dispersion than a 170 used as a center. I also have a sub for bass. So for home theatre, the difference is hardly noticeable.
The difference is quite noticable to me. Our set-ups are most likely quite different as is our perception. There is no universal answer here. We're both correct. For us.

David

[Quinn]

To me, the biggest improvement in the SEs over the Classics had nothing to do with the bass, but with the better tweeter. SEs are clearer and more open.

I agree there is a lot more improvement in the SE than just the bass extension. I'd say there is more overall detail and the SE is a bit more natural sounding too.

[audibleconnoisseur]

I have not heard the prior classics but have the 340SE's and the 200's. Taking into consideration that a prior post mentioned the classics and the 200's have the same tweeter, I would venture to guess there is a noticable difference in sound and clairty, as well as smoother highs. I like the 200's laid back but quality sound. I love the 340SE's brighter and clearer/crisper presentation. I can not speak to the bass extension of any as I have nothing to compare to and 340 to 200 would not be fair regardless...

Point is I think the 340SE's are the way to go if you like that crisp, detailed presentation more than the smooth laid back sound.

[MrTomasulo]

It probably matters for audio professionals. If i were being completely honest about it, i couldnt tell a difference.

Are you guys sure you could pass a "grill-on" a/b test between an old 340 and an SE and tell which is which? I probably couldnt. Heck, i'm liable to like the old one more if i were to do that.

Absolutely. My girlfriend and I acutally did exactly that, and it's pretty easy to tell. She noticed the differences even more than I did, to tell the truth. The Classics sound much more 'muffled' in comparison to the SEs to us.

The first week we had the SEs I was watching "Collateral" and a gunshot in the movie literally scared the bejeezus out of my girlfriend who was in the kitchen, as she said she literally thought a gun had gone off in our living room it sounded so real. That type of thing had never happened before.

[airs]

Well, I got my new SE's and they sound incredible. I think the cost was well worth the sound performance increase. I like them so much I sold my 170 classics (rears) and have 170SE's on order. The biggest thing I've noticed is that my ears dont fatigue like they did with the classics at high volumes. YMMV!

[Johnal]

Is the upgrade still available (to go from the classics to the SE)? I know I probably have an e-mail from James or Dave somewhere but I'm at work and can't check my personal e-mail. *sigh* I need to stop getting into hobbies that are out of my price range. lol

[audibleconnoisseur]

Have you read about the newest Sierra line? Might be time for another immediate upgrade!?

[Johnal]

Have you read about the newest Sierra line? Might be time for another immediate upgrade!?

indeed, but it's not like i would scrap my 340's either ya' know. :P I guess I could "pull a Curtis" and give my 340's to my parents if I decide to upgrade to the Sierra's.

*Edit*
Nevermind...sorry parents but i have no money, and apparently there might be a trade-up option available. :P