Upgraded speaker wire

[MichaelG]

I upgraded my speaker wire today. When I bought my Ascends last summer I didn't want to use new wire until I decided on my speakers final resting place. The last couple months I have been waiting for monoprice.com to get their 12 ga. wire in stock (great price). The wire I have been using was from my previous system (12 years old) and must have been around 18 ga. (comparing to 12 ga). I didn't think it would make a difference but it certainly seems too.

I have loved my Ascends every week since I bought them but tonight they seem clearer and stronger. Is it possible that speaker wire can impact imaging? Even 2 channel sounded better.

I was watching the Colts/Patriots game in HD (I am a Bears fan) with Diana Krall(SACD) on instead of the announcers. The only way to watch football if your favorite team is not playing. I hated to switch over to listen to the game! Hard to believe I seldom listened to music before I bought these speakers. Now I can't turn it off!

Probably all in my mind but I sure do love these speakers. I just don't know how you could do much better. Thought I would share my joy with the many who understand! :D

Michael

[musicforme]

I recently took delivery of a pair of 340s and loving them.

I'm using some generic 14 gauge wire from Lowes from my HK635 to the 340s. Would it be worth the effort (and money) to go to thicker or better wire?

[audibleconnoisseur]

Generally, yes... the thicker the wire (within reason) will produce better music, especially in longer runs. Take into consideration the quality of the wire, type, etc. If you were to buy 18g or 12g, from The Home Depot, Lowes, whereever, it would be best to get the thicker of the two all other things being equal. I have 12 or 14 guage in-wall for my Ascends (that should be here Friday hopefully)! They work well and I have been pleased. Only testing other wire would I know any better from here. Sure am not going to pull it out of my walls and try again though!

I do have a question though... is that expensive Monster wiring made "especially for music" that has the midrange signal wire wound one way and higher freq wire wound tighter, etc really worth the extra money and does it really make that much of a difference over say 12g or 14g wire from HD?

[bikeman]

I recently took delivery of a pair of 340s and loving them.

I'm using some generic 14 gauge wire from Lowes from my HK635 to the 340s. Would it be worth the effort (and money) to go to thicker or better wire?
Some folks say yes and some of us say no. You'd be ill advised to spend a lotta money to find out the answer for yourself. If you can check out the results at a reasonable cost, why not try it. Then you'll know which camp you're more likely to join. I'll let it go at that.

David

[bikeman]

I do have a question though... is that expensive Monster wiring made "especially for music" that has the midrange signal wire wound one way and higher freq wire wound tighter, etc really worth the extra money and does it really make that much of a difference over say 12g or 14g wire from HD?
M*nster is first and foremost a marketing company. I don't think we need to go any further but sometimes folks can't help themselves. ;)

David

[audibleconnoisseur]

I know about that marketing machine... just look at the "no highs, now lows" company out there that shall remain nameless and they are raking it in still! Either way, I wasn't going to spend the insane amount of money they were asking for the wire just maybe hear better music.

First I can't understand how the wires are all stranded together, whether they are tighter or not, would be able to differentiat b/t one signal and another enough to send one faster and one slower through the same strand of wires. Therefore the entire argument didn't make sense to me. Wouldn't they all piggyback on each other and get there at the same time while riding each wire to the location?

[debo]

This is from a car audio thread but the same principle.
http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/speakerwireselectorassistant.swf

[ebh]

i upgraded from some 16 gauge generic cable to bluejeans cable 12 gauge and thought i noticed a positive difference--however, i have a feeling the clearer sound may have resulted from my use of banana plugs with the new cable, vs bare wire for the old. especially on my receiver, i don't think i was getting a great connection with bare wire b/c of how hard it was to stick the wire in.

did you change anything else about your setup that might have also made the difference? i'm generally of the belief that cables shouldn't make a difference except in scientifically reasonable areas (like for long runs, it does make sense to go with bigger cable, which is why i moved to the 12 gauge, b/c i bought surrounds). also, if you didnt cut fresh contacts for your old wire, there may have been corrosion that messed things up if they had been sitting around for 12 years.

[MichaelG]

EBH, I didn't make any changes except the wire. The wire I replaced was small and old. Certainly the connection of 12 ga. vs 18 was much better so it may have been that or corrosion. I also had runs to my surrounds of 30+ feet. I did check with my meter and didn't have to make any level changes afterward. One of the reasons I was in no hurry was that I had read on the internet that suggested larger wire wouldn't make much difference. It wasn't a massive difference but I did notice an improvement.

I'm not recommending that everyone upgrade their wire. I posted more just to share my enjoyment of my Ascends!

Michael

[Kingrsl]

I bought a 100ft spool of 14gauge at Lowes today for $24. It looks like it's very good quality as well.

[audibleconnoisseur]

EBH, I didn't make any changes except the wire. The wire I replaced was small and old. Certainly the connection of 12 ga. vs 18 was much better so it may have been that or corrosion. I also had runs to my surrounds of 30+ feet. I did check with my meter and didn't have to make any level changes afterward. One of the reasons I was in no hurry was that I had read on the internet that suggested larger wire wouldn't make much difference. It wasn't a massive difference but I did notice an improvement.

I'm not recommending that everyone upgrade their wire. I posted more just to share my enjoyment of my Ascends!

Michael


MICHAELG,

Use some of Ohms laws and consider the size of the wire will most likely have less resistance being bigger in diameter. The size does matter over longer runs due to this. If you are talking 16G over 12G @ 4'-6' then you will not hear any difference most likely. You will be able to measure a difference, but it will be very slight and again, not audible. Run that same 12G or 16G over 30' and now your ears will hear the audible difference. Just something to think about.

For the post above, KINGRSL, I bought a used 1000' spool from HI-FI/TWEETER when our house was being built and cut what I needed for surround and routed it through our walls for future (this weekend) hookup when I made the move to 6.1 surround. It was really neat b/c it was brand new wire that lengths had been cut from before and also had markings each foot up to 1000' on the wire. I started at 688' since others had used it before me, and cut down to some other foot mark, say 596' and when I returned the large spool to HI-FI, they only charged me for what I used, 688'-596'=92' at a simple and inexpensive rate. This way I didn't wast any wire and had more than enough to route through the walls without having to measure/guess how much was needed. It was ULW-2 rated in-wall 12g or 14g wire (I forget the actual #'s now) but is good stuff and I love it! Side note, I did the same and bought less expensive wire @ 100' from Lowes or HD for similar price (14G I think) and have been able to use it as needed for other wiring and the shootout we had two weeks ago. There are good, cheap ways to pick up wiring but I did like the inwall, one wire, protected for my needs. I was also privy to the studs during construction so It was easy.

One last thing... many of you are not sure what to do about wiring your systems without seeing the wire or wife upset b/c you have to hang wire to have surrounds. If you are patient and know how to use a simple tool, spackle walls with sheetrock mud and paint, you can try this as it DOES work if you have some patience and time and don't want to run more wire that needed or try to hide it around other items (DON'T DO THIS WHEN YOUR WIFE IS HOME!!). If you get a router, circular saw, or dremmel (sp?) style tool, you can set each to cut a 1/4" - 3/8" deep groove/cut into your sheetrock from where you can no longer hide the wire to your surround area. I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT YOU FIND A LOW OR HIGH AREA TO DO THIS SO YOU DON'T PUNCTURE THE WIRE IN THE FUTURE BUT REMEMBER WHERE IT IS SO YOU KNOW LATER IF NECESSARY!!! It will look like crap when you do it, so this is where the patience comes in! It has to be this deep to completely house the wire. You should note that the Lowes brand wire is side by side design and you can use simple narrow width cut but monster wire is usually thicker and round so you will have to use router type tool or wider blade on the saw. Once the obtrusive groove is cut to your desired speaker location, hook one end of the wire to your receiver while leaving plenty of room to push in and pull out the receiver when needed, hide what you need to, what you can hide, and push the rest an inch at a time into this groove. you might want to use small finishing nails to wedge in as well to make sure the wire doesn't fall out during installation - you can also use masking tape, just remove it before your spackle job - if you wish since you will have to repaint anyway! Once you get the wire to the position where you will have the speaker(s), drill a hole there and push about one foot of wire into that hole so you can pull down and put up the speaker(s) without issue. At the edge of the hole and the groove you just cut leading to this hole, make sure the wire is wedged well into this area so it can't be easily pulled out when you are changing, mounting or moving the speakers at that location. Stand back and look at your mess and the ugliness! Go have a beer - or coke or iced tea or whatever your personal thirst quenching vice and relax a minute. Now get off your lazy butt and get back to work... the wife will be home soon... Grab the spackle/sheet rock mudd and get to work covering the grove with the wire in it and don't slouch here... make it look nice and smooth! After this dries and when your spouse gets home, you will have some explaining to do to the her/unless you are a female ;) Weather the storm and encourage her that you "are the best spackler in the county (or your home, which ever is true) and everyting' will B ire!" Sand it down the next day smooth to the wall level and wipe it with a dry cloth/towel. Get out the paint and paint over the incredibly professional looking spackle job you have done. Did you ever take that second beer/drink after you spackled? You should have done that - if not, don't fret... it will still be in the fridge! Let paint dry (you will need two coats probably) and then ask wife back in to look at your professional wiring job! :cool: Oh, sit back and enjoy the new setup and feel free to send me $5 or $10 for the advice (I have to make a living somehow, eh? Consider me a consultant) :D

Like I said, time consuming but worth it in the end. Disclaimer: don't use power tools or tools you can't say the name of. Don't get drunk before or during using power tools or installation - get drunk after. I said beer, nothing harder - consult another person if you have to drink hard liquer while working in your home. Don't involve wife in your project. Don't call me if you mess it up, I won't fix it for you but I will laugh at you. Have fun and remember, it is a project but one you and future people that might own this home can enjoy but remember to know where you cut the groove so you don't punch a nail through it while hanging another picture or something else, or them if you move - you/they will get pissed off if you/they do this! You will also make a mess trying to fix it. If you do mess it up, admit it, slap yourself and post here for us to 'enjoy' your pain!

[drewface]

:eek:
wow...

[audibleconnoisseur]

What... it works! ;)

[drewface]

haha. i'm sure it does, and i think it sounds like a great idea! just seemed a little... wordy? ;)

[audibleconnoisseur]

Yea, I know. I didn't want to type it... but do you have ANY questions about what to do and how to do it? Sorry so wordy but I hope that someone can use it and it works for them. I am going to have to do it this weekend b/c I have in-wall wired now but am going to have to move the wires even further over b/c I didn't plan for them to be where they have to be to sound as good. Oh well, maybe I can read my own post and hopefully do it right :D

[BGHD]

First I can't understand how the wires are all stranded together, whether they are tighter or not, would be able to differentiat b/t one signal and another enough to send one faster and one slower through the same strand of wires. Therefore the entire argument didn't make sense to me. Wouldn't they all piggyback on each other and get there at the same time while riding each wire to the location?
I'm no EE, but doesn't electricity travel at the speed of light? If so, "timing" shouldn't matter, right?

Either way, I'm gonna stick by the "copper is copper" thinking and recommend going with any low-cost wire of the proper gauge. Just make sure it has decent enough insulation to prevent shorts.

[audibleconnoisseur]

yep, they both travel at 299,792,458 meters per second!