Repost of 8-10 spkr shootout on 1/14

[audibleconnoisseur]

Ok everyone, it is official and scheduled... here is the lineup as of 1/11:

DENON 1905 pushing 80W/channel + SACD/DVD player + HSU VTF-2 MK 3 + RS SPL meter x 2

$548 - CMT 340 SE's
$440 - Axiom M2v2's & M60's
$1000 (5sp surround - 3 1500's & 2 1000's) Sapphire 1500's
$800 & $2200 respectively - JM Lab 806V's bookshelf & 826V's floor standing
$few hundred new?? - Technics SB K915's (current 17 yr old)
$ - ?? - Boston's (don't know model)
* looking to get the NHT Classic Three ($800) and Energy RC-10 ($550) if I can but not if I have to pay a 15% restocking fee - sorry fellas :cool: . Might try for Paradigm Studio 20 v.3's too ($800+)?

I suspect a five hour shootout and a few Tylenol or Advil shooters will lead to some cheers and tears for some of us! I am hoping to see if we can all write something up here and and at Axiom and HSU when we are finished. I don't think it will be as elaborate as many others and I don't have that kind of time but we will provide our opinions - at least "I" will provide mine. Stay tuned...

Question to any of you. Wouldn't having a more powerful system (say 100W or 110W/channel make the speakers cleaner and/or louder at the same volume? I am considering selling off my Denon 1905 for a more powerful receiver if this is the case and it will help to better secure the quality and sound of the speakers. Also I want to keep from underpowering them at higher Db's - suggestions?

[bikeman]

Question to any of you. Wouldn't having a more powerful system (say 100W or 110W/channel make the speakers cleaner and/or louder at the same volume? I am considering selling off my Denon 1905 for a more powerful receiver if this is the case and it will help to better secure the quality and sound of the speakers. Also I want to keep from underpowering them at higher Db's - suggestions?
You won't notice any difference until you power way up. And going by specs is usually NOT the way to go. If your Denon really does 80w a channel, you'll want double that to get any real headroom. Room size, configuation and distance to the LP are all important when trying to determine if more power will make any real difference.

David

[audibleconnoisseur]

I am 13' to the LP and have a 15'6" x 15'11" x 18'h room open to above, so about 4500cuft. I spoke with DENON just now about my 1905. They told me it IS an accurate rating for the DENON @ 80W. I am at a loss. DENON told me that upgrading when I choose to the 2307 would be a much better jump for me b/ cof new board and additional and upgraded components, pass through HDMI, etc. I am looking into it but logic and physics of sound would tell me that 100W/channel would be better, louder and cleaner than my 80W!?

Send me a PM with your email and I can send you the layout. I can't save it from .xls into anything offered.

So taking what you said above... what would you recommend to help with not turning up as loud to get more volume from speakers so I am not near the +/- 0Db in volume on the 1905?

[musicforme]

Send me a PM with your email and I can send you the layout. I can't save it from .xls into anything offered.

If you have it Excel, you could take a screenshot (hit the print screen key), edit it in Microsoft Paint, save it as a JPEG and go from there.

[audibleconnoisseur]

Let's try this... sorry it is small, it won't allow much in size!

[Quinn]

I I am looking into it but logic and physics of sound would tell me that 100W/channel would be better, louder and cleaner than my 80W!?



For every 3dB increase in volume it takes doubling the watts. It takes a fairly quiet room to pick up a 2 dB difference. Going from 80 watts to 100 watts isn't going give you even 1dB increase in volume capability.

How good the amplifier section is makes a big difference in ability to deliver power on demand with dynamic volume increases. They are after all called amplifiers not wattifiers.

[audibleconnoisseur]

I know what you are saying. So what do you suggest that I do to play cleaner sound with less effort and not have to get to the +/- 0Db volume to play pretty loud? I would like to be able to listen to a movie loud if I wish without having to push the amp to this 0 level and having no headroom left for more to avoid distortion or clipping. At 0 now it is pretty loud but I have the back off the sub even more to prevent it from pushing to much. Is there an answer without spending $1K+ on a receiver? This DENON should be all that I need for my space. I do notice that when I play 2ch stereo, it is louder and when I switch to Dolby Pro Logic II or a few others, it reduces the sound...

[Quinn]

What dB level did you calibrate 0 to?

[buddhadas]

I had the same problem with my Denon 3805. What I have done is I use a Mcintosh 2505 amp (50 watts) for power, and that problem went away for the most part. -17 is about as loud as I can stand with both audio and video.
Hope this helps.

Jim

[audibleconnoisseur]

I have not done the testing to calibrate anything. I don't have the 9V battery required to power the RS SPL meter, keep forgetting and once I am home...

I will get that today as we are blasting away with the speaker shootout listed at another thread below this Sunday so I will need it and need to calibrate the HSU first. DENON is a great brand but why would this case be a problel with them? I would prefer NOT to buy another or even add an amp as there should be no need. I may have to though just in case. I just don't want to come close to any damage or negative things happening with the speakers I choose. I should be fine but we will see...

[Quinn]

Remember to use the sound meter to level match all speakers for your shootout.

[curtis]

If you are going to use the sub with the speakers, you will need to calibrate the sub every time you change speakers.

[leon55]

The boston speaker mains will be the vrm model.

[leon55]

Correction that is the vrb model mains, sorry.

[muzz]

Well, how'd that shootout go?

Football was on MY agenda yesterday!!

[badassfajita]

yeah this seems like a good test--anxious to read results. The 340SE is my standard for a bookshelf speaker--it will be interesting to see how the focal 806v compares side by side.

[audibleconnoisseur]

To make a very long story short since I don't yet have the write up (coming later this week), the CMT 340 SE's were the clear winner to my ears, although the Boston's and the Axiom's were certainly nice speakers and I would be pleased with any of them. Sidebar, the HSU didn't let down either! Funny to see/hear grown men (later 40's to later 50's - assuming) jumping from one spot to the other saying "You've gotta sit here to feel this!!"

More to come later in the week but I know that I will be VERY pleased with my decision to purchase a five or six set sytem later this morning consisting of 340 SE mains, 340 SE center, & three HTM 200 surrounds (due to size v/s placement constraint). I can't wait to set these fresh one's up, break them in and settle in to some quality time with my NEW girlfriends blowing sweet audible sensatios across my cochlea and into my auditory cortex! That didn't sound too dirty, did it?

More to come later but a BIG thanks to Leon55 for his help and his B-I-L for bringing his Boston's as well. I enjoyed having you over and hope you enjoyed the shootout! Thanks for coming to my place, that was very courteous and considerate as you were doing ME the favor. Thanks to Dan for brining his M22 v2's for the contest and offering his time and CD's as well. I really appreciate you guys.

For the person that asked about the 340 v/s the 806V... you did the right thing! The 806V are a nicer looking speaker without question but as someone on here has stated... you should enjoy the sound, not the looks. The 806V are French made (I believe) and the sound is different but the presentation of the Boston v/s the 806V was similar but I think I decided on the Boston's over all considering the sound, presentation, extension etc. I didn't A/B the 340 & 806V but knowing the 806V v/s Boston and the 340 v/s Boston... the 340 still won! Would like to have the 340 sound in the 806V or NHT Classic Three box if that was possible for asthetic purposes! Another side note... the HSU mixed/matched better with the Axiom and Ascend and then the Boston's, then the JM Lab's. More later, please see the "Anyone in Atlanta have the 340 SE's?" thread before this one for future information so I don't have to duplicate.

Oh, thanks to Dave for his expertise, courtesy and professionalism during my decision making process. You are part of this sale and I am pleased that I will be getting you and your great crew with the purchase into the future!

[davef]

Hi Audible,

I am really pleased to hear that the shootout went well. Of course I am glad that you liked the performance of the Ascends but what pleases me most is the effort you put into auditioning and the research involved.


Oh, thanks to Dave for his expertise, courtesy and professionalism during my decision making process. You are part of this sale and I am pleased that I will be getting you and your great crew with the purchase into the future!

You are most welcome and I bet you are glad that the decision making process is over. Soon you will be enjoying the fruits of your labor... We certainly shared a few emails ;)

Glad that James and I were able to be there for you.

Enjoy!

[audibleconnoisseur]

Dave, part of me wants to take them to the dealers and pit them against their 'higher' lines just to know and also just to shut them up! I couldn't get the Engery RC-10's to the house or the NHT Classic Three's and know I have also tested the Paradigm Studio 20 v.3's against the Axiom M60's a while back and they did quite well. The desire to know is killing me. I will step out and say that from audible memory (which admittedly isn't as good over time) I have not heard a better, more pure, flatter and as revealing a speaker at this or double the price point.

I will see if I can do some in-house testing of my new 340SE's against the other guys at their store just to see them pissed off after gloating about their $2K+ setups. I will admit that I will tell them they are worth $1000+ so they don't get the holier than thou attitude though. This way if I beat them, I can drop the real price on them and one of these :cool: and just walk away! - I dislike when people tell me I am "hearing things" when I test that they don't hear b/c my hearing is off the charts both high and low, especially when they are trying hard to sell me one speaker brand over the one I like best. If the sound is there, I will hear it and I don't walk out w/o my fair share of testing and certainly don't buy from a person whom is trying to pull one over on me. Caught one of them boys fudging the sound system to make A sound better than B. Called "BS" and was out of there after a quick chat with the mgr about their 'professionalism' and consumer deception. Come to find out later the speakers in question were being discontinued and they were trying to get rid of them to anyone that they could at full price before they went on clearance... I digress.

Dave, I love em' and am going to have fun when I get them! You are a good man and I appreciate your guidance and support during my, and I am sure others' decisions!

[curtis]

I have not heard the Energy, but I have heard the NHT Classic Three in my own room. It is very different from the CMT-340SE.

[DavidD]

I have not heard the Energy, but I have heard the NHT Classic Three in my own room. It is very different from the CMT-340SE.

In what way?

[audibleconnoisseur]

I agree, in what way? Different presentation, better, weaker? If you don't want to be negative towards either speaker, you are welcome to PM me and I will read it there.

[curtis]

I would call the Classic Three darker/warmer, with less clarity and detail overall. Some may call it a smoother sound. In my room, which is fairly dead, the differences were immediately apparent upon switching the speakers.

[audibleconnoisseur]

it is your opinion then that the 340SE's are the superior speaker for clarity and capability? i would assume with the 240W rms and 400W max that the 340's will stomp them in total output as well?

[muzz]

Looks to me like he is telling you that he preferred the REAL sound of the Ascends over a "Colored sound".....
IOW, he doesn't feel they are as accurate....
He also hasn't replaced his 340SE's with them.

Thats MY take on HIS comments, NOTHING more, and I COULD be wrong(doubt it though).

Curtis will try his best NOT to bash another brand(internet folks can be pretty volatile, and misinterpret things)

If I'm way off base here Curtis, I'm sorry bud... but thats how I look at it.

m

[audibleconnoisseur]

I figure that is correct as well. I don't care to bash anyone either. I just wanted his opinion on the match-up. That is why I asked him to PM me. Everyone hears differently!

[curtis]

OK...so I just read Absolute Sound's review on the Classic Three. What I heard and what the reviewer heard are very different. That guy loves the speaker.

In the same issue is a review or the Pioneer S2-EX speaker. Now with that review, I pretty much agree with.

So...what I am saying, you got to hear them for yourself. :)

[curtis]

Looks to me like he is telling you that he preferred the REAL sound of the Ascends over a "Colored sound".....

I don't know if I would call them colored, but almost like listening through an open door vs. a screen door.

[muzz]

OK...............
LMAO


Thanks for the clarification Curtis!! bahahahaha

[audibleconnoisseur]

can you send us a link to the three's article?

[curtis]

can you send us a link to the three's article?
It is not online yet.

Stereophile.com does have a review though.

[audibleconnoisseur]

Hey guys, the review is almost complete. It is not a pro review but I am not a pro reviewer... so there! I have it on my laptop and have to have it transfered to my email here so I can get it up on the web (assuming I can use the wireless network here at the office). I will try to have it up by noon if I can. If not I will have it up this weekend. FYI, there are no SPL measurements as we were not interested in that over the sound quality and presentation, soundstage, imaging, etc. Maybe when I get my own set broken in I will do another review and can put that up here then. Ciao for now

[audibleconnoisseur]

Hello all, AudibleConnoisseur here with a report on the Sunday speaker shootout in Dacula, GA! Along with three gentlemen and myself, we spent four hours at my place listening to a variety of speakers, eating some hotdogs and discussing music and bass! Here is the line up of speakers by pair:

Ascend Acoustics 340SE - $568
Axiom Audio M22v2 - $460
Boston Acoustics VRB - $500+?
Focal JM Labs 806V bookshelf - $800
HSU VTF-2 MK 3 sub - $469+sh
Sapphire 1500 surrounds - $1000 bought for $349
Focal JM Labs 826V floor standing - $2100

Many of these only got a few minutes b/c we were more interested in the first four and the sub. The Equipment used to test the speakers was a Samsung SACD/DVD/CD player, Technics 5-disc changer and a Denon AVR-1905 80W/ch receiver. The LP was approx 13’ back from the speakers and the speakers were approximately 6’ apart. The test was done in 2.1 stereo sound with treble and bass at +/-0. The speaker wire was 14 gauge, in-wall certified shielded speaker wire. Most tests were done at the –20 to –5Db levels as were shown on the 1905. The sub was set to just under 9 o’clock on the volume dial and 80Hz crossover setting within the 1905. The LP was from corner to corner.

The first test was the VRB’s v/s 806V’s. While I was not as privy to this test, I did hear much of the testing from afar. I let the VRB owner test first. He mentioned that he did like the sound of the 806’s but didn’t like them enough to warrant the cost difference. I agree, as did the Ascend owner.

Last test was the VRB’s v/s the Ascends. This proved to be the closest case of two similar sounding speakers. The presentation was similar and according to the others the 340’s were the winner by a smaller margin than the VRB’s v/s 340’s, I was the only one to tell a larger difference in the two (I have hearing above and below the regular hearing spectrum as has been tested when I was younger and as recent as three years ago). I noticed a few things different. First the SEAS tweeter was smoother at the top end and seemed a little less fatiguing than the VRB’s although by a slight margin during the short playing time. The VRB’s sounded more boxy and confined by about 15% as the 340’s opened up during the entire session and never sounded boxy. It was clear that the 340’s were made solid and presented well no matter where they were. Oh, there was only about 8”-10” of clearance to the back wall for each speaker. The VRB’s are a well built speaker that will win no award for looks, neither will 340’s. Both are capable of producing very loud music very clearly but the 340’s sing better and when pushed, so no signs of fatigue where the VRB’s seem that had they been given about 10 more Db’s (this would have been VERY loud), they might begin to show sibilance and or become shrill. They also have a nice sized woofer that is capable of producing decent bass if there is no sub to be had - one would be suggested for all of these though. The 340’s dropped lower on paper and held their own quite well but we didn’t push it to find out how well they did.

Ok, to the main event and why we were here… 340SE v/s M22v2. For the most testing these two were pitted against each other and it was FUN! We took them to +/- 0 at the highest point and didn’t care to push past this just in case as this level with the Denon is suppose to be reference level. I am not an A/V pro but I assume this to be true. The 340’s are capable of 220W rms and 400W max! That is some serious power they can hold with pristine sound and doubtful you are going to blow them unless you are doing something stupid or you have a very low powered / very, very high powered receiver. These 340’s can hold their own at any level you are capable of handling acoustically. The M22v2’s are rated at 200W max amp and I am not sure what rms or power they can handle but I don’t believe it is as high as the 340’s. Strange thing though is the 340’s are rated 92dB and the M22v2’s were 93dB so one would think the M’s would play slightly louder with the same gain and the 340’s would play slightly lower. Not the case. We found that the M’s took a touch more volume to play at the same perceived sound level as the 340’s. After some thought and a bit of adjustment, the 340’s were dropped to –4 treble (of –12) and the sound of the two were much closer as we think the forward presentation of the 340’s and the SEAS tweeter were just smoother and easier to hear. Also we could adjust the M’s to +4 and get similar presentation but this would produce a more harsh tinny sound from the M’s. B/C of this we found that the M’s were more reserved at all volume levels. Not so much a good reserved, but slightly laid back or maybe even a bit muddy with certain music, such as rock music. Most music, the M’s are quality and present well with smooth midrange and good sound. The M’s are also not bad with the high end presentation but I can see how they would be perceived as harsh or fatiguing over a long time, especially at +4 to match the smoothness and treble capability of the 340’s.

The 340’s present well with all types of music, including rock. They really stood out in this category and for me this was good. I enjoy all types of music but currently I listen to a lot of alternative rock and other types that you would find on a regular radio dial. They also image well and present a quality soundstage even when we had them 3’ too close for our distance back (should be spkr dist apart = .73 x LP distance). The 340’s were the standout to me as far as presentation, clarity, high end, smoothness, spot on midrange and ability to offer quick and refined bass with ANY music track or movie track we threw at it. The M’s stood out with better bass for rap and also had REALLY nice midrange. With both male and female voices, both performed well. We listened to some classical, jazz, rock, acoustic, Cassandra Wilson (great fun cd with a lot of soft acoustical performances and fun sound effects), Sarah McLachlan, Eagles, all the way to disturbed and Godsmack! Both reproduced quality music and we enjoyed our session with the variety of genre. When we were testing the female voices, I was noticing some things I hadn’t heard before or heard better with these speakers, such as the separation of Sarah’s lips when she sings (which personally takes me to the seat next to her and is a bit of a turn on if you are in to her. I have her at the top of my musicians for female vocals at this time b/c of her passion and the way she is able to pass that passion to the listener and make you feel the song in your soul), her quite breaths b/t lyrics, etc. There was another singer that eludes me at the moment (female) that had a really nice voice and during her session that was live and on DVD, I heard a few things that I didn’t from the M’s (or had to re-listen and really focus to hear them) while she was on. Many background sounds such as instruments moving, people talking, coughs and other artifacts that make live sessions so neat to hear and bring you to the stage with them - I really appreciated and enjoyed this. I was the only one that heard them the first time and consecutive times before I turned up the volume to a higher level and pointed them out to the others. The 340’s produced original content with no deviation in my opinion. The M’s did well but the sound seemed a bit more masked and these little artifacts that make that quality track were hidden at the same volume levels or muffled and that was a red flag for me. It was b/c of this that I was really sold on the Ascends. The 340’s REALLY DO project the original and accurate recordings so I can see how a bad recording will stand out. I didn’t hear any bad ones that day but that particular song (if nothing else) really sold me. This coupled with the Ascends presence and forwardness during rock playback as well as spot on midrange and no-nonsense reproduction is what sealed the purchase decision for me.

I can’t say that I personally found anything I didn’t like about the Ascends when they were in my home… except that they weren’t mine! Even the M’s owner said that he preferred the Ascends over his own M’s in the rock area and I think he also appreciated the quality of all other music as well... I hope there are no lingering afterthoughts of his decision with the M22 & m60’s he owns… they are damn nice speakers! He is still pleased with his M’s but I feel that had he been given another chance, he would have strongly considered the Ascends in his testing. Now to be fair, he has the M60’s as well and I have heard them last year when I went to his home to audition the Axiom line… they are very nice and range and image well when I last heard them. They will stomp the 340’s on bass extension and when he played the Pink Flyod cd for me… wow! I digress… I was near sold on them at the time but had to wait to purchase anything. From what I am being told, the M22v2 play everything the same as the M60’s w/o the bass extension and there is a ‘little’ lower and fuller midrange that you might give up b/c of the size of the two. However, when paired with a sub and the sub taking 80Hz and lower, the sound of them is near identical (this from an Axiom Audio Advisor). That being taken into account, I had to choose the 340’s w/sub. Now I can get the full range + the movie and depth LFE’s that I have been yearning for all these years!

[audibleconnoisseur]

At our session, the M22 owner brought the Pink Floyd cd and we played the cut with all the clocks at the beginning and with the 340’s, I could swear that there were a dozen in my room up high on the walls, behind me, in front and all were actually in the room, the imaging was that good! They all sounded accurate and not like ‘fake’ acoustically reproduced clocks. The M’s did well here also and should be proud but again their presentation is further back and at times I could tell that the speakers were doing the talking but not during this test.

When using the sub, they both got better and better. What the HSU can do paired with a quality bookshelf is incredible. The M’s and 340’s were born to run with the HSU and they did so at great pace. The JM Labs didn’t match well with the HSU for some reason and we could not figure why but it didn’t matter b/c they also didn’t match with our ears, so there you have it! The HSU is an awesome piece of audible equipment that will amaze many a people that don’t know what they can get for under $475+sh! I know that I have heard many a sub in that range and NONE come near the power, excursion, output and full depth the VTF-2 MK 3 does. Rated at 250W and 25Hz max output and 18Hz max extension is a conservative rating b/c I/we have personally felt a 16Hz tone from the little monster! I shouldn’t say little b/c it is a small and heavy (78lbs) end table that looks like a black box with a woofer installed! The build quality of the HSU is quite impressive and it is solid to the core. If you don’t believe me, just put in any LFE heavy movies and see for yourself. The dial on the back never really needs to go above the ¼ or 9-10o’clock mark so I am not sure why it is even on there but anything above this is overkill unless you really like the bass low and loud when the music is really low. I have yet to bottom out this sub but I feel I am giving it the old college try! With the disk the Dr (Dr. HSU – designer and builder of the HSU subs) gives you, you can actually bottom out the first thing you hear so start with it low! The first track is a great recording of a nice classical piece with a 32” pipe organ, whose sound output is similar to that of a military helicopter flying over your home. The music is pretty but the bass extension will literally shake your house and just an FYI, dogs and spouses don’t like it either! Disk also has some other songs on it and starting track 9, will drop a continued 16Hz tone and then change to a 20Hz, 22.5Hz, etc up to 200Hz+, then go backwards from 200+ back down to 16 in a continuous sonic drop. This will let you know what you need to tighten up in your home. Please consult a plumber before you attempt to tighten down the pipes in your walls! Yes, it will shake them too! Can’t find the loose change b/t the seat cushions? The HSU will turn your couch into a coin machine gone awry, and spit out the change you will need for your morning coffee or whatever other vice you choose. I am not saying the HSU is capable of shaking the ground outside of your home… but it does! When your neighbor tells you they can feel it at about 50’ b/t homes, “you do the math!”

We did not test the SPL of the sub but know that it is loud and goes deep like three wide receivers wanting to win the Super Bowl with 10 seconds left and down by five! The sub also has a few switches/knobs for you to play with: on/off/auto on, 0 & 180 phase, 18Hz max extension/25Hz max output (with foam plug) and the crossover in/out. The two knobs are gain/volume and crossover level (40-more than you need it for). It is also capable of many speaker inputs in case you need them although I have not used them, nor will unless something drastic changes in our audible lives :) . Quality plug and removable cord and volt switch, as well as the fuse are easy to see and read and use. Four hard plastic spikes that screw in to the bottom of the unit to keep the woofers excursion from hitting the floor and four firm rubber feet stands are also provided if your sub starts to walk on its own while on a wooden, marble or linoleum floor. It is suggested that you put it on carpet or put a throw or carpet under it if you can for best sound. Everything on this sub is quality and you will be impressed with its build. It’s girth is harder to hide as this baby needs about 16” x 25” (400in.sq.) floor space to breath properly (as 4-5” are suggested on the port side and at least 1” from the sides to the wall). Don’t worry, you will be happy you made room for it! You might have a harder time in the WAF area, but if she gives you grief, stick her head near it and play a quality bass track and it will rattle her brain so much she will forget whey she is arguing in the first place! (No, I do not condone or agree with spousal abuse – you are simply letting her feel the sub’s ability!) It is a plug-n-play system so even the instructionally challenged can handle setup and operation. I had it opened and installed in under ten minutes, that includes removing it from the box, simple quick placement and hooking up the wires. The knobs and switches came set already to 80Hz and 9o’clock gain (not sure if that was a fluke or not).

All in all it was a good time. The boys came over, I grilled out and we ate, talked shop and got to the testing. I do not have a full list of the cd’s used but we did test many of them such as: Eagles, Cassandra Wilson, Sarah McLachlan, Disturbed, Stone Sour, Metallica, U-571, Star Wars TPM, Matrix, HSU test CD, and many others consisting of acoustical and male/female vocals. Nice DVD of one woman whom eludes me that was one of my biggest reasons to pick up the Ascends acoustically and reproduction wise. Maybe one of the other gentlemen will pipe in with her name… ah yes, Diana Krall… that was her! It was this DVD of a live acoustical performance where she was on the piano that I heard the background sounds of moving musical instruments and persons talking that I did NOT hear in the M22v2’s that really pushed me much further to the 340’s. I didn’t need to hear any more after that A/B test!

Now people, don’t get me wrong… the M’s are very nice and great quality with solid construction and they look better than the 340’s with grill on or off, I just believe that the 340’s were superior in most every aspect FOR MY PERSONAL LISTENING DESIRES. When it came to the vocals of men and women, both were spot on in my opinion and both are really good quality, especially for the money, this is where I might give a slight edge to the M’s, when there were deeper male vocals. I told them both I wish I could mash the two together and that would be pretty sweet! The M’s win on looks and WAF but someone once said “You should not be as worried with the look of your speakers, as you are with how they sound!” It is my opinion that speakers should be noticed when people enter your home and after that, they should disappear and all the guests and yourself should ‘see’ is how good they make you feel when they are playing and appreciate the artist as they are attempting to be appreciated. You are suppose to get involved with music to appreciate it and if you know where the sound is coming from, you can’t do that as well with your eyes open, or closed!

The 340’s were my pick if you couldn’t tell, the Boston’s were really nice and I would need to A/B them with the Axiom’s to have a permanent opinion, but the did seem the nearest acoustically to the 340’s from the blind test and the M’s were right in there the whole way, just with a more laid back sound and at times the word muddy might be used when considering FINE detail that I can hear and many others may not. Great fun, great speakers, great shootout and the point was for me to make a decision. As such, I have placed my order for 340SE mains, 340SE center, & 3 HTM200 surrounds. They should be here next Friday and I am truly counting the days until then. I have returned the $3K worth of JM Labs and am keeping the Sapphire 1500’s for a couple more weeks to pull surround duty until I break in the Ascends and then I am going to set up a system for my buddy using them or sell them or return them as well.

Thanks for your time and I know this is long but it was my first one. No specific measurements b/c I don’t have the graphs or equipment, just good old fashioned listening and opinions. Take them as you will and use them how you wish. It was fun and thanks to the three gentlemen that helped out with your speakers. Best of luck to you all and I will report again in a few weeks when I have mine broken in. I will also be testing a few receivers as well if Leon55 can return to help me so we have the same speakers and we can give more input to them at such time: Pioneer VSX-81TXV, Denon AVR-1905, Denon AVR-2807, Possibly a Harman Kardon 645.

Ciao for now ~

[Quinn]

"We took them to +/- 0 at the highest point and didn’t care to push past this just in case as this level with the Denon is suppose to be reference level. I am not an A/V pro but I assume this to be true."

This is where a set-up disc like Avia or DVE and a SPL meter come into play. Because rooms are different and speakers have different sensitivity levels you need to use a set-up disc and sound meter to set reference 0 to whichever of the two standards you subscribe to; either 75db or 85dB at 0. Personally, I split the difference and adjust my reference 0 to be 80db.

[audibleconnoisseur]

Hey Q,

Would you be willing to call me later to explain that so I can give it a go tonight? I am hoping to be home at 4:30-5pm EST if you have a few minutes. Please send me a PM and I will reply with my phone # if you are free and willing.

[muzz]

Thanks for the effort and writeup!!
Looks like you guys a good time, and thats what it's all about.

m

[audibleconnoisseur]

Leon, what was the name of the Diana Krall DVD that we listened to?

They are asking me to wait another week Leon, I am having withdrawls already! Hey, can you come back over in a couple of weeks and bring your 340s and we can test the receivers I have with them? Maybe if we use our two centers together, we can compare three together at once if the sound won't be too off?

Dave, could we do this? Test his two on one, my two on one, and our two centers together on the third and if so, would the sound be the same so we could do blind tests, etc?

[curtis]

340SE center channels are different than mains...they contain the EXBAC baffle compensation circuitry.

For the comparing of speakers simultaneously, positioning is very important, as is level matching.

[audibleconnoisseur]

I figured but wasn't sure. Knew there was something different or it would be a main turned on its side! Maybe we can get lucky and find another GA owner that is willling to come and offer their set for a little bit to test it?

[leon55]

The Diana Krall dvd was Diana Krall live at the Montreal jazz festival, very good dvd for me anyway. Your speakers will be in before I could get back down there, I'm busy this weekend. Hope you get yours soon, I had to wait a couple of weeks on mine.

[Gov]

IMHO,
"Live in Paris" is even better

[buddhadas]

I will second that.

[audibleconnoisseur]

Leon55,

I meant if you could do it sometime AFTER I get them and break them in. This way we could test them without having to change speaker or using the A/B feature, assuming they were similar sounding with the break in. Just a thought since you were looking for another one in the future and I am considering it now.

[badassfajita]

Curious as to why you purchased the 826V as well - At $2100 they aren't nearly in the same price league as the other speakers.

[leon55]

I like the Diana Krall in Paris as well, but I like the 4 instruments in the one at Montreal better than the orchestra, just my opinion though.

[audibleconnoisseur]

badassfajita,

I know they are much higher than the others. I did that b/c the Axiom owner has M60's and I wanted him to compare them to much more expensive speakers as I felt the M60's would have held their own quite well. Ironically the 826V's were similar to the 806V's with a little more midrange. The 340's were the clear winner over the others, including the 826's... funny how a speaker that is 1/4 the price can compete with a $2K+ set of floorstanding speakers! Of course you have to add the sub as the floorstanding go lower.

[cyberbri]

This is late, but I just want to say that you can always use your receiver as a pre/pro and get an external amplifier for more power.

Haven't read the review on the 2nd page here, but I'm looking forward to it. :D

EDIT: Just read your write-up. Great report! Sounds like you guys had fun, and it sounds like you found "your" speakers. I've done something similar a few times with some local guys. Nice way to spend an afternoon, huh?

I have 3 340SEs, 2 170SEs, and the VTF-3 MK2 (basically the same as the VTF-2 MK3 except my 3.2 has 50 more watts). Yes, the sub is incredible. It was incredible when I paid $700 for it last summer, and it's even more incredible now that it's only $470. In Max Extension mode, I get decent output to the mid-teens. I attached an image of a REW measurement. I have bass traps in the front corner (GIK Acoustics) and a BFD eq'ing the sub flat to 100Hz. The graph shows interaction with the mains, with the sub's response eq'd with the BFD. I have the crossover on the sub off, 1 port plugged (Max Extension mode), and phase at 180 deg since that gives flatter response from 100-200Hz.

With the speakers, sub, bass traps and eq, I find that almost all of my CDs have great bass that I never knew was there before. It's great being able to hear everything - the bass guitar (I love the sound of acoustic/stand-up bass -a la Soul Coughing), all the drum hits, etc., rather than it all disappearing into the ether or sounding like a single 60-80Hz thump.

Just wondering where you came up with the "speaker distance = .73x distance to LP" equation. I've always heard that the speakers should be in an equilateral triangle with the LP. Just curious.

Also, a CD you should pick up for great female vocals, instruments, piano, etc. is Fiona Apple's "Tidal" (her debut album). There's a great variety of tracks. Track 6 "The First Taste" starts off with her singing over the piano, and you can hear her lips, like the moisture on the lips and the slight "smack" when she separates them - then part-way through the song an amazing bass line starts in.

[audibleconnoisseur]

thanks for your input. that equation came from dave fabrikant in a few emails we have had back and forth. this is his formula for best sound with his speakers.

[curtis]

It is actually in the Ascend speaker manuals.

[audibleconnoisseur]

Also, a CD you should pick up for great female vocals, instruments, piano, etc. is Fiona Apple's "Tidal" (her debut album). There's a great variety of tracks. Track 6 "The First Taste" starts off with her singing over the piano, and you can hear her lips, like the moisture on the lips and the slight "smack" when she separates them - then part-way through the song an amazing bass line starts in.


It is for this reason (among many others) that I really appreciate Sarah Mclachlan (SM) and her work. Again, the feeling that is passed is incredible. Also, her breaths, lips separating, etc add such a quality feel to every track. Just for to be immersed in the sound and stage of music is what they are about and why many do what they do.

[cyberbri]

It is actually in the Ascend speaker manuals.

I'll have to try that with mine, see how it sounds. Right now with the equilateral triangle, music sounds great in the sweet spot, but the imaging breaks up if I move to the sides.

[curtis]

I think DaveF made a post about imaging and soundstage in a room having a lot to do with reflections or the lack of reflections.

[cyberbri]

I have GIK Acoustics' "224" panels, one at each 1st reflection point. Plus some bass traps. It already sounds really good. But I'm all about experimenting to get the most out of my setup.

[curtis]

I have GIK Acoustics' "224" panels, one at each 1st reflection point. Plus some bass traps. It already sounds really good. But I'm all about experimenting to get the most out of my setup.
You are lucky that you have the kind of room that allows you to try different things.

[cyberbri]

You are lucky that you have the kind of room that allows you to try different things.


Room, and wife. :D
Yeah, my room is on the medium/large side, and my viewing/listening area has enough room to move stuff around.

Here's my room, old picture w/ no treatments, etc.:
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/503/DSC06624.JPG

My gallery, with my Ascends and VTF-3 MK2, treatments, etc:
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php?thumbsonly=0&perpage=60&cat=500&ppuser=7455862&thumbcheck=0&page=1&sortby=&sorttime=&way=&date=

[curtis]

yes...I remember that picture and the human bass traps. :)

[Quinn]

Hey Q,

Would you be willing to call me later to explain that so I can give it a go tonight? I am hoping to be home at 4:30-5pm EST if you have a few minutes. Please send me a PM and I will reply with my phone # if you are free and willing.

I went out of town this past weekend. If you have a setup disc like Avia it will tell you how to do it. If your receiver has test tones then just grap your sound meter and put it at your listening position, mic towards the ceiling, turn your receiver to 0 and go in the receiver's set-up menu and adjust each channel up or down until there are all at whatever dB level you choose as reference 0. I split the difference between Dolby and THX and use 80db.

Here is a good post for Radio Shack sound meter corrections by model.- http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/2273-post13.html

[cyberbri]

Aha. I just read the manual. The formula is a bit different than what I was thinking. It's not 0.73 x the distance from the LP to either speaker, but 0.73 x the distance from the LP to the midpoint between the two speakers (like a "T").

They already sound great where they are now, so I'll have to see if I can even move them. That would put them pretty close to the sides of the TV and almost block the pathway between the TV and the coffee table...