Which Sub? or Ascend vs Klipsch

[lokimon]

Last week I went into a Ultimate Electronics store and ended up picking up a new receiver and a Klipsch (RF-62) package speaker set. I don't normally just buy something like this out of the blue, but they had a really good deal on the new Sony DA5200es receiver.

I'm thinking about auditioning a set of Ascends to compare against the Klipsch's. The final cost will be a little bit more for the Ascends.

Looking at getting.
340SEs for the front.
170Se for the sides.

But I'm not sure about the sub. Is there somewhere on the site that helps in deciding which sub to buy? I was looking at the STF-3, since then the price would be about the same as the Klipschs, or should I just go ahead and spend the $100 to upgrade to the VTF-3 MK2? The setup would be used 75% Theater and 25% Music if that helps.

Also, does anyone think auditioning the Ascends would not be worth it? Has anyone done something similar in the past and come away with the Ascends sounding a lot better?

Thanks for the advice!

[bikeman]

Also, does anyone think auditioning the Ascends would not be worth it? Has anyone done something similar in the past and come away with the Ascends sounding a lot better?Thanks for the advice!
There is a very decernable difference between Klipsch and Ascends. I doubt you'll find anyone on this Forum that would perfer Klipsch. Klipsch have their own devotees. Many, many years ago, I'd have given anything for a pair of Cornwalls or LaScalas. But times have changed and speakers are so much better today that, for the money, Klipsch are no longer on my radar. I'd recommend you order a pair of 340SE's and give em about 48 hours to compare to the Klipsch's. No need for break-in. The winner will be obvious to you. Let us know how it turns out, regardless of the outcome.

David

[P Seastrand]

I recommend looking at the HSU site (www.hsuresearch.com) and see what the new subs have to offer. I don't believe Ascend has updated their offerings of the HSU subs yet.

I have the VTF3-MKII that I'm extremely happy with. A friend of mine just ordered the VTF1 (new model) and I'll let you know what I think when I can hear it (next week sometime).

[kirkup]

I received the new HSU VTF MK3 last week to go with my 170SEs. It really is very clear and much more than I expected. It can provided that deeper base that the Ascends need for music, or, if turned up, can shake the room (and the neighbors), for home theatre. If your room is less than 3200 sf, I highly recommend it! The HSU folks, like the Ascend staff, are helpful and knowledgable-call them.

[kirkup]

I received the new HSU VTF MK3 last week to go with my 170SEs. It really is very clear and much more than I expected. It can provided that deeper base that the Ascends need for music, or, if turned up, can shake the room (and the neighbors), for home theatre. If your room is less than 3200 sf, I highly recommend it! The HSU folks, like the Ascend staff, are helpful and knowledgable-call them.
Sorry, make that 3200 cubic feet.

[scottyh]

I auditioned the Klipsch synergy III series F3's for he mains and the synergy III center before I purchased my 340se's. I know that the RF's are a slightly better model than the synergy series but I got the point. for me the klipsch were extremely bright. way to bright for my taste. I really couldn't even get through an entire movie or cd without my ears hurting. I am extremely happy with my purcase of the ascends and I saved a few bucks.

[Jonnyozero3]

lokimon - as others have said, klipsch and ascend sound quite different. A friend of mine has a pair of RF-7's so i get to hear them alot. They are quite fun on rock and such, but can get fatiguing to my ear. Personally, I prefer the neutralness of the Ascends, but that is purely personal preference. For what it's worth my friend recommends Ascends (bc he hears mine all the time) quite often to people who ask him for <$1k speaker options. He's considered picking up 340s and is hoping ascend makes something bigger and pricier to suite his tastes :)

anyhow, long story short - you won't know which you like until you try them. make sure if you do a/b them....listen to each alone for a few days to a week, then switch. that might help your ear get used to each so you can make your decision.

good luck!

also - where do you live? there might be an ascend owner nearby who would demo for you....

[lokimon]

I found out the Ascends are on back order for a few weeks.

Since I only have 30 days with the Klipsch's, I'm not sure what to do. I'd hate to bring these back and then find out I prefer these to the Ascends.

Oh well... such is life.

[muzz]

Backorder?
Dave and Co. must have done quite well this Xmas season!!

[tjennings]

I moved my approx. 10 yr old Klipsch main speakers to my corner surrounds, and you can especially tell when listening to hi-rez multi-channel music that the Klipsch's are much brighter... and for me, to the point of being very shrill compared to the smoother 340 SE's up front. Even a friend noticed it the other night when listening to surround music: "wow, those rear speakers sure are piercing sounding compared to the front ones!" Yep, very true, and hence why I've replaced them as main speakers and relegated them to rear corner surrounds... but I'm saving up to replace them with two more 340 SE's so I have five 340 SE's for surround music.

[lokimon]

I don't know guys... I finally have them both here and have been switching back and forth all day.

I'm not an audiophile or anything, so I don't know all the terminology, but to my ears the Klipsch's definitely sound better for music. Much fuller, much more surrounding.

Unfortunately, the Klipsch package I bought has a weaker center channel, so the Ascends sound better for movies, etc. I don't have to keep turning up the volume to hear what the actors are saying.

I suppose I could replace the Klipsch center speaker with something bigger, but I'm just about at my limit as to how much I wanted to spend.

With all the great pub the Ascends were getting, I was willing to just be part of the herd. It took quite a bit of convincing to finally decide the Klipschs really did sound better.

What am I missing? :)

[cyberbri]

I have the VTF-3 MK2. Amazing subwoofer.

But their new VTF-2 MK3 is virtually the same subwoofer, except with a 250w amp rather than a 350w amp. And rather than $700, or the $620~ price it goes for now, the VTF-2 MK3 is $469~.

Amazing price.

[audibleconnoisseur]

Have you gotten an SPL, measured and set them to the same volume level and made sure you worked within the spkr distance x .73 = distance to the LP? also, have you given the ascends some time to break in yet? you seem to be one of the few that like them over the ascends (please, no offense!). maybe you might be one that likes the horn sound over the ascend build stye. you might also want to look into the hb-1 horn + mbm bass module from hsu if the sound of klipsh is to your liking. i would be hard pressed to believe that the klipsh or hsu play cleaner, flatter and with more passion than the ascends but i have not heard them. which models exactly were they? i will do my own test in a week or two if i have time. let us know what you think after the breakin and really sit and listen for background things such as words and musical instruments in both.

[bgra14]

The way klipsch sound these days..I think it is a matter of personal taste for Lokimon. I have a brother in law who loves to play his system loud withlots of bass...I on the other look for clarity and great highs and midrange..hence i do not like klipschs and polks...i lean toward ascends (obviously ) and b and w's. My brother in law loves polks and klipschs ...I think that is what is happening here, Lokimon prefers the klipsch sound...I have heard the newer Klipch speakers and it it is not until yopu get to the very expensive klipsch models (which are hard to find) where the sound changes and comes closer to my liking.

Try listening to loud music for and hour on both and see which speaker fatigues your ears first..it might interest you.

To each his own

[lokimon]

I wish I had more time.. I keep reading how these speakers should blow away these Klipsch RF-62's, but I'm not hearing it. If only they weren't back ordered when I ordered. Tomorrow is my last day to make a decision.

There's got to be something wrong with my ears. The Klipschs sound more surrounding, like more of a movie theater sound. I don't know... sigh.

[bikeman]

There's got to be something wrong with my ears.
There's nothing wrong with your ears. You perfer a particular sound. Enjoy what works for you.

David

[lokimon]

My problem is I suspect that the Ascends are better constructed, using better components, for the price point. Which makes me want to like the Ascends better.

But I'm not the only one that seems to think the Ascends sound smaller. I've seen posts like the one below before. Would this have anything to do with the Klipschs being put into a bigger cabinet? Just trying to make sense of it all.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8818975&highlight=klipsch+and+ascend#post8818975

I know it's a matter of trade offs, and maybe my ears are making the wrong trade offs. ;)

[debo]

You sound like your in panic mode. Like David stated let YOUR ears decide. I love my Ascends because they are detailed and natural sounding. I didn't see where you ever picked up a sub? I can't imagine HT without a sub and the way Ascends blend with a sub my help with the fullness you fill you are missing. Your only negative about Klipsch was dialog, did you go back to where you bought the Klipsch and see if you could uprade the center and maybe extend your trial time?
All I can say is BUY WHAT YOU LIKE.

[lokimon]

Yeah.. you are right.. just go with what sounds better to me, i guess.

I did end up with the HSU VTF3 MK2... I'm keeping that. ;)

[Jonnyozero3]

Pardon me if I missed it - but did you make sure to level match the speakers with an SPL meter, as well as try modifying the location a little, and/or toe-in. The Ascends are happy just about anywhere, but it's surprising the amount of difference some tweaking can do. Also - regarding the SPL meter, if you don't have one, try turning up the Ascends some more, or the Klipsch's down. Finally - how did you a/b them? did you swap their locations? or just cables?

[lokimon]

I found out tomorrow is the absolute last day I've got to decide...

The Klipschs are the RF-62's and an RC-62

I am A/B ing them by using the A/B feature of the receiver. They are pretty much in the same location.

Any helpful hints in what a guy can do in 1 night to decide would be appreciated...

Unfortunately, I do not have access to a sound meter at the moment... I borrowed mine out and don't feel like going to buy another. :)

Thanks

[Lou-the-dog]

The Klipsch speakers are slightly more efficient and the horn tweeter presents a more forward sound. The Klipsch speakers that I have heard do present as dynamic so I can understand your interpretation there. Try to level match if you can before sending the speakers back.

Randy

[lokimon]

I do give the Ascends more volume when comparing... Is that what you mean by level matching?

[cyberbri]

Level matching is making sure you are getting the same overall SPL.

If you listen to two sets of speakers, and 1 of those pairs is a little more efficient, it will play a little louder at the same volume setting on the receiver. When a speaker plays a little louder, it gives the impression of being better, fuller, etc.

[davef]

I might add,

Don't A/B between the speakers quickly... Spend time with each speaker and try to hear background sounds in the music. Breathing, the pluck of a guitar string -- close your eyes and try to imagine the location of the instruments and vocalist.

Critical listening is a skill that develops from experience and it takes time to develop.

I would recommend returning the Klipsch now, spend a good 3-4 weeks with the Ascends -- then go purchase the Klipsch again and then spend some quality listening time. This way, you have more time and I can assure you that if you purchased the Klipsch locally, the store will most certainly sell them to you again at a later time.

Also, since you are using a subwoofer, it is very important to properly integrate the subwoofer with the speakers and this takes some time to do right. (and the settings will be different between the Klipsch and the Ascends) You definitely need more time in this and I think my above suggestion might be the best option for you.

Good Luck and please understand that it is absolutely OK if you prefer the sound of the Klipsch speakers...

[lokimon]

yeah.. I was heading down that direction myself... I'm just too panicked to do this right.

We'll see what the next few weeks brings.

[audibleconnoisseur]

lokiman, dave is right on the money (as if you didn't know). i have been listining to music all my life. it wasn't until i was in my early 30's, two years ago, that I first decided to listen to the words of the songs and put a picture together in my head of what was going on in the song. the music was easy, i could hum and hit all the notes spot on after only a few times listening to any songs. the words came with time and memory retention. the feeling and expressions that were passed along in the songs were another thing that I finally decided to listen to and am thankful that i have. there are songs that will make you angry, sad, passionate, laugh, choke-up, bring back memories and so forth. this is what the singer/artist is trying to envoke usually (unless it is about money for them and it is for many!).

in my write-up on the shootout, i talked about the lips separating of sarah mclachlan, the background sounds and talking and coughing during the diana krall dvd, the passion in josh groban's voice, etc. it is these things that make music so wonderful and why so many of us here are so serious about this pasttime/these speakers that can reproduce these sounds and such quality. i can hear more on the high end and low end of the spectrum that most can and i am greatful but anyone can hear what i hear in the songs if you care to listen and appreciate the writer and singers. enjoy it and don't look back. i can promise that if you do this you will never hear music the same again and this is when you will begin the trek to audiophiledom - if you will.

[Jonnyozero3]

Ahh, I didn't realize you were switching so quickly.

You had the Klipsch's for a long time (in comparison) - so your ear got used to them. I agree with Dave F's suggestion - give the Ascends ~30 days so you can adjust to them. I think you'll feel much better about your decision (either way) after doing so.

Goodluck! And keep us posted. We're here to help.... ;)

[johnnyk]

lokiman, you have some good speakers there. I went to stores to audition speakers, Magnolia and a local high-end stereo shop. My price range is < $1500. In both stores, I pretty much listened to everything they had and I liked the RF-62 the best out of everything that cost less than $2500, even better than the step-up RF-82. They are the speakers I would purchase at this time, considering everything I have heard. I am also considering buying ascends, so your comments are very interesting to me.

I am a hobbiest musician who plays live, and I do believe I know good sound when I hear it. While I don't know if the ascends actually sound better or not, I think you probably also know good sound when you hear it. I suggest that some of the Ascend owners here go out and listen to these RF-62s (at any BB with a Magnolia). I would be curious to know what they think about them. They are the smoothest sounding, least bright Klipsch I have heard.

[lokimon]

Yeah.. I was hoping to hear from audibleconnoisseur as well.. He mentioned he might do a test. These Ascends do grow on you, but I kind of miss how much more forward the RF-62's sounded... That might not in general be a good thing, but I did like it.

[audibleconnoisseur]

lokiman, AudibleConnoisseur here... what was it you were hoping to hear from me about? I hope I didn't miss anything :(

[lokimon]

You didn't miss anything... you just might not have time to compare the RF-62's. You mentioned earlier in this thread that you might check out the Klipsch speakers.

[johnnyk]

Yes, please let us know if you get the chance, audibleconnoisseur. Magnolia has them. That should be the easiest place to find them.

[audibleconnoisseur]

Ah, now I get it!! You are USING me... :D

Rookies! Maybe I will do a crappy review and say the K's are better than the A's so you won't buy the A's and get stuck with the K's - how about that!?

If I get the other testing done and also get the chance to either take mine into the store or buy a set and bring them home I will. I did promise my wonderful wife that I would be finished with the testing after this weekend and no more speakers, receivers, etc will be brought home. So if I can get to it in time, I will try. If not I will have to take mine to their place and hook them up to A/B them to know for sure. I will say that I got my AMEX bill for the "testing" that I have been doing and :eek: came to mind! I was hoping to have them back before that hit, but oh well... what's a few thousand dollars to know you are getting the best for your budget!? ;)

Oh, I will get all that back when I return everything! So you know what I am going through for all of you and me, I have spent near $6K on the AMEX to test and return receivers and speakers to get what I think is the best for my ears! YES, they know what I am doing but still... don't do this if you don't have the coin to cover the cost for the month. I still have about 1/2 that outstanding and it will all go back this weekend unless I fall in love with the new D2807, HK645 or PE81 (which, btw, the PE81 is not a big improvement sound wise over my D1905 to my ears - maybe 5%-10% - so it will be going back). This cost above is why I am hesitant to do anything with the Klipsch. I will let you know later so I am really sorry if you were really waiting on me for this...

[audibleconnoisseur]

lokiman, johnnyk,

What's up gents!? Ok, I just came from BB and the Magnolia room (sounds like a gentleman's club :p ) and auditioned the Klipsch 62's. I will say that the sound is different from what I know but they did sound nice. Now I have to provide a caveat to this statement b/c there was something I liked and something I didn't like that I can't put my finger on about the higer end and vocals. I was about to pull my hair out b/c they played the Eagles DVD - Hell Freezes over which I have heard, well, MORE THAN ONCE! I heard all kinds of things I did not hear with the Ascends or Technics, or Axiom, JMLabs, etc... then I realized and reasked what we were listening to: "You are you hearing the Eagles Hell Freezes Over DVD," he said! I then realized that the DVD and the CD are different and there was so much more that I liked about the DVD that I was not hearing in just the CD. Question is should I buy it? I might do that... :confused:

So anyway, my relief brought me back to reality and after I changed my boxers, I felt much better knowing that there was NO way these would outperform the Ascends or the others like I was hearing. So to make a long and potentially funny story short, I have to hear them both with the same CD or DVD. They did sound revealing but certainly a different kind of reveal than the 340SE's. I was not blown away by them but they do play loud an proud and I would certaintly say that if you are in the $800 budget, that you at least consider them (I speak without no more than 10 mintues of listening time) and without proper A/B testing proceedures! Now, to the 340's credit... the 62's are about 4x the size and volume of the Ascends. They have (I think) larger drivers and they also use a horn tweeter setup that projects the music out there with authority. They did image well and soundstage was nice but I was also only about 6' from them while seated so I might have been too close and hearing the L & R sounds from each spkr? I would love to bring them home to give them the 4500cuft space the 340's are claiming to test them but it would be too much for my wife, knowing they are floorstanding and with assmembly - not going to happen as I promised her no more!

I think with my first impression is that if you are a younger bass head that likes loud and big and more rap style bass, they 62's may be for you. If you have a sub, this may be pointless but there is a potential for the lower notes to be a bit fuller with the extra bass the 62's seem to provide. That is my only real observation at this time not being able to A/B the same material - it would not be fair! I may get that disk and rely on my audible memory, or try this again in the near future and let you know. They are $399ea I think so also given the $250 difference... the Ascends may clean up nicer over all???

[johnnyk]

audibleconnoisseur, thanks for making the effort. With regard to the price of these things, I have read that they can be discounted to $650. When you factor in the price of 340s with stands, I think they are pretty comparable. It seems as if you liked the sound of them. Did you rush right home and listen to your Ascends again? That usually does it for me. Then, you kind of have an idea if you just stepped down in sound quality or not. When I came home to my speakers, I realized that mine were not as good as what I just heard. Thanks again for the info.

[audibleconnoisseur]

I didn't say that I stepped down in sound and no I didn't rush home to listen. I am still at work so I will have to try later. I do need to hear them again with the SAME dvd or cd and go from there. I DID say that they would be worth a list if you are in the range - cost wise. I still don't know that they are better/worse without further testing - better word would be different. Again, they are 4x the size of the 340's so you have to take that into account when comparing! Sheer volume and size does account for something with sound. If you need/want/have to have bookshelf... I still say I have heard very few that are better than the Ascends

[johnnyk]

nobody accused you of stating that you stepped down in sound. I was only stating how I verify if my speakers sound better or not. Side by side comparisons are not always neccesary. I auditioned a pair of 600 serious B&W, and it only took a few seconds to realize that they were a poor speaker compared to what I am used to. Judging from what you said, am I correct in interpreting that the RF-62s are at least some competition for the Ascends that you own?

[audibleconnoisseur]

It would be a safe assumption that this statement is accurate! I do want to point out again that the size and volume of the 62's are much greater than the 340's so I would expect to hear more full sound from them in some areas. I will say that the horn is a different animal and I am not sure if I like them or not. I am interested enough to give it another go though! Maybe I can get back out there with another disk that I know and own and give it another spin. The only other thing I need to note is that There were using a MUCH newer cd player (mine is 10+ yrs) and also the newest Denon 1907, mine is the Denon 1905. Lastly, the dvd they used I have never heard before (thought it was Hell Freezes Over "CD"). I really like that DVD version though - I highly recommend it if you are an Eagles fan or appreciate good quality live recording!!!

[johnnyk]

I understand the size and volume comparison, but for me, it is not an issue. I would have to put the ascends on stands, so the difference in floor space will not be an issue. The 170s, on the other hand, could fit on shelves or tables, so that is a consideration. I actually like the "in your face" an forward sound on horns. Being a musician who plays live, I can assure you that very few speakers can create the sound and feel of something like a drumkit with crashing cymbals right in front of you or even a guitar amplifier. Many people prefer a more "laid back" sound. Of course I am not implying that the ascends sound any way, I have no idea because I've never heard them.

[audibleconnoisseur]

I am with you johnnyk. If you like the forwardness, you will really like the 62's. They did sound good to me with the recording I heard in that room with those acoustics @ 6'! You wil most likley be happy with them and you will also apprecaite the bass extension of them from what I heard while there. I have a 4500cuft room so the bass is being produced by the sub. This being said, I am more interested in the freq above 50-60Hz and how that sounds to mine ears! If you don't have the 62's, I would suggest giving them a good listening session.

[muzz]

FWIW

I was a drummer for 13 years, including playing out myself, and I can tell you that the 170SE's do a VG job reproducing instruments.
When I first got mine, I found myself actually listening closely, trying to figure out what type of Crash/drumhead was being used, and I never did that b4, probably because the speakers I've had/heard didn't do as good a job articulating.

[johnnyk]

Muzz, sounds good. The 170SE's are the ones I would go with. I think the 340's are a little pricey, considering that I also would need a sub and stands. They are practically small towers then. How do you like them? Are they bright at all? I'm looking for forward sounding, but not bright. Also, what kind of sub are you using?

[muzz]

My sub really isn't even good enough TBO, I have a Boston Acoustics PV600, and while it does OK at lower levels, it can NOT keep up when cranked...
Luckily for my pocket, I can't crank it too loud right now anyways(that OFTEN, I do crank it for hours on end when I get the chance heheh), due to poor soundproofing.

The NEXT thing I purchase, will most likely be Brian Dings- 12" Rythmic Direct Servo kit, which I will build a box for.

I think the 170SE's are a steal TBO, I really didn't have the scratch to buy 340SE L/C/R, so I got 170-L/R and a 340 SEC when I was buying, I figured I'd get 2 more 340SE's for the front(later), and move the 170's to SS duty, but I may just get another set of 170's instead.
Thats what I think of them.

I've heard/see a few folks use the term "Forward", I don't think so at all, I use the term "Revealing" myself.
My 170SE's replaced a set of Boston Acoustics- CR75's, and IMO there is NO comparison between these speakers, the Bostons are Harsh, especially at higher volumes, the CR75's are actually rated to go a bit lower, but IMO the 170's SOUND lower, probably because the notes are cleaner- more defined.
IMO- The Bostons, at any volume over normal turned bright and harsh, the 170's are alot smoother throughout.
To think, about 5 yrs ago, those CR75's cost me $300 at a B&M store!!
Can you say....
RIP OFF!!!

You can try them for 30 days, and just pay return shipping if ya don't like them, You'd probably spend that much on gas $ just driving to all the B&M's in your area, and have to listen to them at the STORE, which is obviously not ideal, although I believe you will most likely keep them.

How do they sound?
Awesome :D