What Sub for My 170SE Mains for 2.1 Music?

[1Time]

Please suggest or recommend a subwoofer for use with my 170SE mains for 2.1 music at moderate to low volumes.

I'm more interested in how well the sub blends with my Ascends than how low or loud the sub plays. My budget for this sub is up to $500 or so.

Thanks!

[BradJudy]

The obvious answer would be a Hsu STF-2 or STF-3 which are both on sale right now for 20% off. They are very popular among Ascend owners.

[1Time]

The obvious answer would be a Hsu STF-2 or STF-3 which are both on sale right now for 20% off. They are very popular among Ascend owners.

I thought it would be HSU, just had to ask to be sure. Incredible deals... thank you very much!

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Edit: Hmmm... on second thought... I copied the following from HSU's site:

"STF subwoofers remove the Variable Tuning feature of the VTF line. VTF subwoofers can be tuned electronically and physically to play either loud or low, letting customers decide how deep to play. STF subwoofers don't have this feature."

Now I'm concerned one of the STF subs might not be best for me because I intend to use it at low to moderate volumes.

Should I have reason for concern? If so, what other sub(s) should I consider?

Would the obvious answer then be the HSU VTF-2 MK 2?

[ebh]

any sub calibrated properly will play at low to moderate volumes, if your mains are also playing at low to moderate volumes. i think you are misreading the info on the two hsus tho--in actuality the VTF-2 is the one that will be able to play louder (when in max output mode), the tradeoff being a few hz in depth. The STF-2 has a bit smaller of an amp and is tuned at 25hz. i think it has a lower overall output than the VTF-2.

the calculation most people make when determining what sub to get is the room size (in cubic feet). that said, it seems to me this is more often used when dealing with home theater applications than music. i have a UFW-10 from av123 that works pretty well with music along with my 170s. It is another sub you might want to look into. SVS is another popular choice.

if you are handy i would maybe suggest going with a do it yourself sub like the rhythmik, which is what i wish i had done. but if not, either the hsus will probably work for you, and the STF-2 might be good enough.




I thought it would be HSU, just had to ask to be sure. Incredible deals... thank you very much!

----------------------

Edit: Hmmm... on second thought... I copied the following from HSU's site:

"STF subwoofers remove the Variable Tuning feature of the VTF line. VTF subwoofers can be tuned electronically and physically to play either loud or low, letting customers decide how deep to play. STF subwoofers don't have this feature."

Now I'm concerned one of the STF subs might not be best for me because I intend to use it at low to moderate volumes.

Should I have reason for concern? If so, what other sub(s) should I consider?

Would the obvious answer then be the HSU VTF-2 MK 2?

[Mag_Neato]

Having a UFW-10 myself, I give it another vote, especially for music. It blends seamlessly with my classic 170's.

[1Time]

Very good info and suggestions / recommendations offered, just what I needed. I guess I'm now leaning more toward selecting a less expensive sub (closer to $400) since my listening / HT room is fairly small and less expensive subs have been suggested / recommended.

I am a do-it-yourself type and have put together DIY speakers before, yet I never considered a DIY sub. I guess I was assuming the manufactured ones would be superior. I looked briefly at the rhythmik and it seems like it may be the best performer in my price range. However, would it be the best sounding sub for music with my 170SE's? Or, would one of the manufactured subs be better for me? Or, at low to moderate volumes in a small room would I not appreciate the difference? I'm looking to be swayed and personal testimonies from those with 170SE's and a sub seem to carry the most weight with me. Or, should I instead go with a superior sub like the rhythmik and call it a day?

A seemless and musical integration with my 170SE's is primarily what I'm after for low to moderate volumes. I expect to set the crossover for the Ascends at 60Hz or 80Hz depending on which receive I use. I read up on the Rocket ULW-10, and its advertising describes what I'm after. Here's a quote from AV123.com:

"Intended Uses:

The ULW-10 can be utilized in small to medium sized rooms. The ULW-10 is what we call a music lovers' subwoofer. It is perfect for music and home theater systems; especially where space is limited. It offers tight, accurate bass in a small package. It is not the loudest or deepest extending sub in the world but it will surprise you with its remarkable attack and decay."

Another "musical sub" I am considering is Orb Audio's Super Eight.

Any additional advise, suggestions / recommendations offered would be appreciated. And thank you all for your help.

[curtis]

I thought about putting a 2.1 setup together for my bedroom with CBM-170SE's and a STF-1....I really like that little subwoofer. A used ACI sub may be right up your ally too.

Personally, I was not very impressed with Orb sub.

You are going to cross at 60hz or 80hz depending on receiver? I would play between the two and see what I liked best. Right now with my 340SE's I either use no sub, or cross at 80hz. I was crossing at 60hz, but lately 80hz seems to do it for me.

[ebh]

ulw-10 will be very similar to the ufw-10--just a bit smaller amp and a different cabinet design. if memory serves, there was a way to get the ulw-10 for $400 thru a link via audioholics... you might also just call av123 and see if they'll knock the price down.

also i agree with curtis, if you found a used ACI sub, that would be pretty awesome.

the thing that seems very cool about the rythmik is that the servo technology basically helps EQ the sub, so you get a very flat response, which ought to improve sound. i haven't heard one before, tho. but whenever i have time and some access to tools, i will probably build one.

[muzz]

ulw-10 will be very similar to the ufw-10--just a bit smaller amp and a different cabinet design. if memory serves, there was a way to get the ulw-10 for $400 thru a link via audioholics... you might also just call av123 and see if they'll knock the price down.

also i agree with curtis, if you found a used ACI sub, that would be pretty awesome.

the thing that seems very cool about the rythmik is that the servo technology basically helps EQ the sub, so you get a very flat response, which ought to improve sound. i haven't heard one before, tho. but whenever i have time and some access to tools, i will probably build one.

I'm pretty certain I'm building one of those myself!!
I didn't plan on spending $ on a sub, but I really don't see the point in spending $4-500 on a good commercial sub, when I can easily build a VVG sub for the same price.

[1Time]

I've been researching subs for a while (I'm learning) and now am preferring a front firing sub; I like the idea of the bass being aimed at me (not that it makes any real difference).

As a first option I'm now considering the Velodyne Acoustics VX10 for $150 shipped. From the personal reviews I read, this sub very well may be up to the task. Again my listening room is fairly small and this will be for music at low to moderate volumes.

As a second option I'm considering the DAYTON TITSK-10K 10" TITANIC MKIII SUBWOOFER KIT for $288 shipped. I think it's safe to say this Dayton should out-perform the Veladyne VX10 in every way.

And, as much as I am sure the more expensive subs that have been mentioned would grandly compliment a pair of 170SE's, I'm now hesitant to spending the extra money as I have become more convinced a sub for less money will cut it. Yes? No?

Thanks again for everyone's help with my subwoofer selection process.

[ebh]

i haven't heard those subs you just mentioned, but if you really want to go inexpensive i would strongly consider following curtis' advise and looking at the hsu stf-1. i've heard it, and it's no slouch for such a little sub. av123 also makes a small sub that they sell for $200. i haven't heard it but people seem pretty positive about it as well. maybe i'm just buying into the marketing of the name brands, but for the price and for what you want (small room and music) i bet either of these subs would do well for you.

[Mag_Neato]

I just took out 2 Diana Krall CDs from the library last night. Put in The girl in the other room and WOW! Sounded incredible on my "old" 170's with my UFW-10 punching out the lows. What a voice.

I tried finding some Patricia Barber CDs, but I had to put my name on a waiting list. I reserved Night Club. Can't wait to hear what all the fuss is about.

[curtis]

I tried finding some Patricia Barber CDs, but I had to put my name on a waiting list. I reserved Night Club. Can't wait to hear what all the fuss is about.
I actually have Nightclub on right now as I am getting ready for work. GREAT stuff!

[Jorge_Burrito]

Just a quick comment that as long as you get a reasonably decent sub the real trick to getting a sub to fit in with your speakers is not necessrily the sub itself but the calibration and positioning of the sub. When you get your sub to get it to have a seamless transition you are going to have to experiment a lot with putting the sub in a location in the room and then finding the correct phase and volume for that location. Either by ear or preferably using a spl meter you will then need to figure out how the sub behaves through its octaves at that location and then repeat the process for many new locations. IF you do not have a spl meter you really should get one as it is the only way to properly calibrate your system.

My personal reccomendation for you situation would be a stf-1 from HSU, or the X-series from AVS123, but that really was not the point of my post.

[1Time]

I agree with the placement and calibration issues of a sub and understand the trial and error aspect of this. And, although I'm sure the STF-1 and x-sub are VERY compentent subs for music, I'm very limited on placement options for the sub, basically somewhere between the 170SE's. The 170SE's will be elevated 4' to 6' and so I'd actually like the option of elevating the sub off the floor a few feet (probably a big no-no). And so, I'm thinking a front firing sub would give me this option. I'd rather not turn a down-firing sub on its side. Although, tonight I will try this with my old 100w Acoustic Research sub to see if I can hear any difference. I think playing around with it tonight will help me determine which way to go from here. Thanks again.

[curtis]

I would like to see a picture of the room. Seems it might be interesting.

[BradJudy]

I actually have both an Onix X-sub and a Hsu vtf-2 (MkI). While the X-sub is a nice little sub, it definitely gives up extension and output to the bigger Hsu.

This isn't as big of a deal with music as with movies, or if you have a smaller space.

DIY with a sub is definitely a good option if you have the equipment and skills - there are lots of options and opinions out there. The DIY section on AVS seems to mainly be subs.

[curtis]

And, although I'm sure the STF-1 and x-sub are VERY compentent subs for music.....
If I ever got an STF-1, it would probably be used more for music than anythingelse. That said, a couple of years ago when the STF line was announced, I was at the Hsu office for a demo. They were playing a scene from LOTR and I turned to Dr. Hsu and asked "is that the VTF-3?" He smiled and said "No, that is the STF-1." I was shocked. It was in nearfield placement, and it put a good shake on the couch. Dr. Hsu is proud of that little sucker.

[curtis]

DIY with a sub is definitely a good option if you have the equipment and skills - there are lots of options and opinions out there. The DIY section on AVS seems to mainly be subs.
I really wish I had the woodworking skills and tools to try the DIY route.

[ebh]

I really wish I had the woodworking skills and tools to try the DIY route.

i wish i had the room and the wife that would let me build a giant sonosub... :D

[curtis]

i wish i had the room and the wife that would let me build a giant sonosub...
Well, if you have the woodworking skills and tools, then you could build one for me and I will let you know how it sounds. :D

[BradJudy]

I really wish I had the woodworking skills and tools to try the DIY route.

I just need the time, weather and motivation. :)

[1Time]

I would like to see a picture of the room. Seems it might be interesting.

Yes, and more than I care to make public... lol.

[audibleconnoisseur]

So, 1Time said:

"... I copied the following from HSU's site:

"STF subwoofers remove the Variable Tuning feature of the VTF line. VTF subwoofers can be tuned electronically and physically to play either loud or low, letting customers decide how deep to play. STF subwoofers don't have this feature." "



and thus my question is this, is now the best time to get the VTF 2 or 3 MKII or will the newer one without the 'Variable Tuning feature' be the best option and why?

I have demo'd the Velodyne DPS-10 in my 15x16x18h den with my Denon 1905 or 1906 and even in this size room with all that air space, it actually still shook everything that needed to be shook and I could feel/hear the bass in other rooms up and down stairs in my 2400sqft home. So among my rambling, I lost my other question... anyone have any idea how well the HSU stf 2 or 3, or the VTF 2 or 3 would perform v/s this Velodyne sub? It was $450 at CC. I am ready to buy one now but am torn. The Velo is really nice looking and plenty for my need but I do want more and better sound musically if I can get it. :D

[BradJudy]

An STF-2 is basically a VTF-2 in max extension mode.

An STF-3 is basically a VTF-3 in max output mode. The STF-3 can be ordered in max extension mode for $50 more.

Given the current sales, I think it's a great deal to order an STF sub. It sounds like there will be sales on higher ticket items soon. There was mention of getting two STF-3's in max extension mode for $1k. Maybe there will be a VTF-3HO sale too.

I"ve never listened to your Velodyne, so I can't comment on relative performance. I'd pick up an STF-3, but I'm already a Hsu owner, so I'm biased.