Reason to pick Ascend?

[DMD123]

I am looking for new speakers and have been out listening to just about everything. (B&W, PSB, Revel, BA, Monitor Audio, Vandersteen)
I am NOT trying to start up anything bad with this post. (So please no flames).

Here’s where it all starts, when I went and listened to the Revel Concerta speakers. All the professional reviews used adjectives such as: neutral, natural, non-fatigue can listen for hours, unhyped sound, even sounding with no one part standing out.
I found them bland and lacking in conveying any emotion. Music should move you. The artist who recorded it had a feeling in mind. The other speakers I listened to had reviews that never really used the term “neutral” but they all had a different way to convey emotion, some better than others.

Now here is where my issue is; many of the descriptions on the Revels sound very similar to what I see written about the Ascends. I know, I should just order them and do the 30 day listen and see for myself… But first I need to know:

1. What adjectives would you use to describe the Ascend (SE) sound?

2. Do any of you consider the Ascends neutral, natural sound as lacking in ability to convey the emotion in the music?

3. What would it take for you to trade out your Ascends for something else? (Budget, WAF, have not found anything better, etc…)

I really am interested in upgrading my speakers (They are bright!), but I really need more info before I commit. Thank you guys for any info!

[bikeman]

1. What adjectives would you use to describe the Ascend (SE) sound?
Revealing and value come immediately to mind.



2. Do any of you consider the Ascends neutral, natural sound as lacking in ability to convey the emotion in the music?
I'm married to a lead singer. She is always commenting on "the emotion" of a piece of music. I've heard her describe singers in so many different ways but she's she's never said the speakers weren't conveying the emotion. We listen on the 340 Classics, SE's and 200's.



3. What would it take for you to trade out your Ascends for something else? (Budget, WAF, have not found anything better, etc…)
WAF is key because if it doesn't fit her decor, it ain't gonna happen. But by far, the main thing for me would be budget. It would take a lot more coin to get me into any other speaker. Even then, I'd have to think long and hard as in, "is it worth it?"



I really am interested in upgrading my speakers (They are bright!), but I really need more info before I commit. Thank you guys for any info!
I encourage you to pick the one speaker from a B&M and bring that speaker home and compare it head to head with the Ascends. The room you're going to be listening in is going to have an effect (sometimes a lot of effect) and without auditioning speakers in that room with your equipment, it will be difficult to know what works best with any degree of confidence.
Keep us informed of how the process is working. And have fun doing it.

David

[curtis]

Well...David put down some of the words first, so I will repeat them.

1. Performance and value are the two words that come to me first.

2. I do consider Ascends neutral and natural. I can easily put on some relaxing music, sit on the couch, and melt away. Just as easily, I can put on some high energy music and get the opposite effect.

3. WAF is not a factor with me.....but the speakers definitely have to fit within my parameters. I am the type that likes things more understated than to stand out. Value is what it is all about for me, and Ascend has spoiled me on that front.

I have always loved music, and for me, the Ascends fuel it.

As David said, do some auditioning and in home is best. Don't rush, and most of all, have fun with the process.

[BradJudy]

I'll echo most of what these guys said, with a couple of notes.

I have found that many times when someone feels something is missing in listening to a speaker, it's relative to their existing speakers (or their 'benchmark' speaker that they can't afford). It's important to figure out what qualities you enjoy. For example, I have seen many people only 'enjoy' a speaker with really strong bass (in lots of cases, more so than is natural) or that enjoy speakers that have highs a bit more rolled off. Despite audiophile egos, it's perfectly fine to have these types of preferences -that's why they are called 'personal preferences'.

This isn't to say that the speakers you listened to might not have been 'off' themselves, just that everything is subjective. This is also why any review should be taken with a grain of salt - it's generally only useful to compare reviews from the same person and even then, people's opinions change over time.

As mentioned, a personal audition is the best route. Barring that, listing speakers that you DO enjoy (along with some you don't enjoy) can help folks here gauge if you might like Ascends.

on your questions:

1. I tend to use the word 'clear' to describe Ascends, as well as detailed. I've given up on the work 'neutral' as it has been so overused and abused as to be nearly meaningless in audio anymore.

2. I don't consider them lacking in emotion, but I will say that I think some people who prefer a very "warm" speaker (which I think of as having an emphasis on the mid-range) might not choose them.

3. I listen to a lot of two channel music and if I found something affordable with a similar sound, but more full range, I might swap out my Ascends. While WAF isn't a big issue, I personally like for them to look nice, hence the finsih work I did. If I was in spend more on a pair of speakers (say $1k+), then I would expect it to also be visually appealing.

I've heard lots of 'better' speakers, but those have been a big step up in price ($1,500-$50,000) and my priorities don't lead me to have a mega-bucks setup, even though I greatly enjoy music and movies. For example, if I wanted a fancy system, I might pick up a pair of Salk Sound HT3's, Pioneer EX series (baby TAD's), Zu Definition, etc.

[DMD123]

Thank you guys for the info so far. It’s greatly appreciated!

I like a detailed speaker, thus the JBL choice for now. I’m using the studio series which are a little more upscale for JBL. My speakers have a slightly forward midrange with just a little too sharp of a tweeter but they do have a nice airy sound with a decent image. I run a warm sounding receiver set with a negative 2 on the treble. It sounds great for movies but just ok for music.

I am looking for the detail of metal tweeter without the fatigue that it brings. I like a somewhat forward presentation with a deep/wide soundstage. And of course the airy sound that does not give you a ‘sound is coming from the box feel’.

I know I just described what most people want.

[bikeman]

I know I just described what most people want.
Yep. That's why in home for a few weeks is the only way to travel for some of us. I have music in three different rooms on three different floors and I've lugged every speaker I own (5 pr.) to each location at some point just to see what works where.
My next door neighbor has Paradigm Studio 40's which I like and might have bought if I hadn't had the opportunity to audition the 340's. Take advantage of Ascend's return policy. The shipping charge is a very reasonable price to pay for a one month rental on such a good speaker. Not every speaker is worth auditioning just based on shipping charges but the 340's are well worth the price.

David

[BradJudy]

DMD123 - The problem is that you just described what you want in subjective terms. My point was that words like bright/warm/airy/detailed have different meanings for everyone and they don't really help me to know what you really like.

You've given us two good examples: You like your JBL Studio, but they are too bright/fatiguing. You didn't like the Revel Concerta because they seemed bland (it's hard to judge what bland means). What other speakers did you like/dislike and why?

[DMD123]

Well here we go…

Monitor Audio RS6
Liked: nice and clear highs (probably would get tiring)
Dislike: Midrange too laid back and recessed, some vocals sounded distant when they should be closer, lack of bass

Monitor Audio RS8
Liked: improved bass response from the RS6, clear highs (probably would get tiring).
Dislike: Midrange too laid back and recessed, some vocals sounded distant when they should be closer

PSB Image T65
Liked: High’s did not seem to pronounced or bright
Dislike: bass heavy-made Mids sound muddy not clear all

PSB Image T45
Liked: Huge soundstage, good center image, very clear sounding, Highs not too bright
Dislike: slightly laid back mid (not as bad as MA’s), seemed like speaker was slightly low-needed a couple inches in height to be at ear level

Revel Concerta F12
Liked: bass very nice, decent size soundstage
Dislike: mids too smooth-because it had no highs so to speak seemed like treble controls set to negative, rear port on this large speaker was too much when placed close to wall - my application would not give this one enough breathing room.

Vandersteen 1c
Like: soundstage seems to extend on way beyond the speakers, very smooth yet detailed high end
Dislike: a little midrange missing, huge soundstage could make some things sound a bit unrealistic, the 1980’s design

If I were to choose what sound I’ve liked so far it would be the PSB Image T45’s and Vandersteen 1c.

It is very difficult to put into words exactly what each speaker was like in universal terms. But I tried my best to describe what I liked/disliked.

[curtis]

It is very difficult to put into words exactly what each speaker was like in universal terms. But I tried my best to describe what I liked/disliked.
Well...you did a pretty good job!

If I am not mistaken, all the speakers you listened to are floorstanders, correct?

Judging by what you said of the other speakers, a lot is in-line with what I have read before, I think you should definitely try a pair CMT-340SE's. Your Hsu sub will work great to make up the fact that they are smaller and don't have the bass extension of the floorstanders.

[DMD123]

All of the speakers are floor standers. I don’t really need floor standers, but knowing how much some speaker stands cost I look at floor standing as a better budget choice in some cases.

Doing some more reading on the Ascends, some I see some called them bright (meaning detailed). I’m sure I would like that detail in the highs. Since it’s a soft dome tweeter instead of the titanium domes in my JBL’s it will probably not sound fatiguing.

I guess I will just have to order the CMT-340SE’s and try them out for myself.

Thank you guys for all the info!

[BradJudy]

Unfortunately, because of the dealers around here, I don't really have experience with the PSB or MA lines, so I'm not much help. I've heard the larger Vandersteens (2CE and Quattro) and enjoyed them, but they seemed more "laid back" than Ascends. The Vans had good balance, good detail and definitely non-fatiguing to my ears.

[debron]

I don't know what adjective to use, but here's what I have to say:

1. I find myself watching the end credits of movies, not because I care who was the second assistant B camera operator or the Best Boy (what the hell is a Best Boy??) but because the music sounds so good I can't bear to turn it off!

2. When I visit stores like Fry's or Circuit City and listen to their high-end setups, I walk away so glad I bought the Ascends and Hsu STF-3 sub.


Ron

[curtis]

what the hell is a Best Boy??
The "Best Boy" is the gaffer's right hand man. OK....so what is a "gaffer" you ask? The gaffer is the chief electrical or lighting guy. :)

The only reason I know is because one of my best friends works in the movie industy, and whenever we go watch a movie, we(she) read(s) the credits....and I have asked that very question.

[SteveCallas]

I find myself watching the end credits of movies, not because I care who was the second assistant B camera operator or the Best Boy (what the hell is a Best Boy??) but because the music sounds so good I can't bear to turn it off!
You're not alone :D Have you seen Lemony Snicket?

[DMD123]

Steve,

I have seen your other posts on a different forum, and know you are an Ascend owner due to 'a series of unfortunate events'. Sorry I couldnt resist with the whole Lemony Snicket thing.

I notice for you the BA's were your choice after all your listening. And I know you had very good things to say about the Ascends but you were looking for just a little bit more in performance.

I guess I'm just in that part of speaker hunting that I want a lot more for the money. The 340SE's compare well to lets say $2000 speakers. I want to spend $2000 to sound like $4000. I have listened to some in that range that I enjoyed: Vienna Acoustics, and also some B&W 800 series (Just way too much $$$ to justify with the wife).

Maybe I just need to wait for the mythical Ascend towers.

I still have a few brands that I'm going to listen to, the new KEF iQ series and the Dali Ikon's. But the 340SE's are very high on my list for an ID brand.

[SteveCallas]

I want to spend $2000 to sound like $4000
Ah, but are the $4000 speakers better in all regards than the $2000 speakers, or just different? You can only brace a cabinet so well. When the quality of drivers gets high enough, the difference in their performance will only be so much. I think it comes down to how the speaker is voiced and how driver arrangement and enclosure interact to create spatial effects - and above some minimum level of performance, I think it switches from which is clearly the better all around speaker to which specific sound charateristics you as an individual prefer. Therefore, the only legitimate solution is to continue auditioning as many speakers as you can until you find the ones that really do something for you. FR and distortion measurements for speakers will get you half the way there, but I have yet to see a way to measure imaging or soundstage, or at least confidently attribute them to a specific set of criteria.


I have seen your other posts on a different forum, and know you are an Ascend owner due to 'a series of unfortunate events'. Sorry I couldnt resist with the whole Lemony Snicket thing
:D Was unfortunate but ended well. The music during the credits of that movie is great though, I really hope they make a sequel. Carey as Stefano, the "Italian man" was good stuff.

[badassfajita]

I had demo'ed the 340SE side by side with the Boston VR2, Monitor RS6 and PSB T45. My local dealer was cool about it. I couldn't agree with you more about the RS6 and T45---I chose the Ascends over them in the end--they had better bass, but the Ascends put out the best mids/highs to my ears. In the end, I decided to go with towers for the WAF, but sadly I am still looking!

If you don't mind bookshelves, the 340SE may just be your ticket...

[Kpt_Krunch]

Don't forget that with the supplied stands, the 340's look like towers, but sound much better. I find it's harder to get a tower to sound as good as a bookshelf as the tower is being asked to reproduce too much in the spectrum (unless you're spending a lot of money).

In all my auditioning, I found bookshelves with a properly calibrated sub sound better than any tower that is twice as much. And, if using for H/T as well as music, most towers (unless they have a built in powered sub, and evne then it's still not as good) don't go anywhere near a good sub for depth and impact, so you need a sub anyway. Then, you have the dilemma of trying to match the sub to the speakers, almost invariably getting a cross at some point that doesn't sound good (usually around the 45 hz mark).

Of course, that's just me and my preferences. And, there are a lot of very good book shelves out there, both in store and ID. I just found that I preferred the phase plug design, and David's choices and subsequent reviews from various owners had me decide to take a chance, and it wasn't much of a gamble I can tell you that.

I have the classics, not the SE's -and am quite happy. It's funny, but on other ID sites, as soon as an 'upgrade' comes out, everyone scrambles to trade in their current speakers for the new ones.

Now, I get that to a certain point, but everyone? Kinda tells me that they were blowing smoke up my arse to begin with if they're so willing to give up their so called 'perfect' speaker for something unheard - alarm bells go off with me right away.

The Ascends, though I have no doubt the SE's are an improvement, I can't see it being so dramatic that I would trade in my classics for it. Don't know what that means to you DMD, but I hope to David F. it means that I am more than satisfied with my classics, and don't feel a need to upgrade them at all.

When the time comes to get another set of speaker for my new home theatre room (now giving me three areas in my home that will require a music setup, four if you coun't the garage, but with all the dusty work I do in there I won't put anything but a cheap boom box in there) the SE's will be right up there (only problem here is the design, I may need to go with a sealed speaker if I decide to mount them all on the walls, which I haven't decided yet - if I go that route - and if David F. does not have a product by then that matches it - ID i'd go Salk Sound and Jim's HT speakers).

So, I hope that helps you a little bit DMD - the speakers, for the money, are IMO the best value out there. The only real question is - does it reproduce the sound you like or not? You'll only know for sure if you can demo a pair in your area, or order a pair to demo. FWIW - most places here charge you a 20% restocking fee if you bring a pair of speakers home to audition with your own setup (as they can't sell them as 'new' anymore), so shipping charges with that are a wash or even cheaper in most cases if you need to return them.

Good luck in your search - one thing I'll say, it sure is fun demoing a bunch of speakers (guess that's how most ladies when shopping for shoes and clothes lol).

[curtis]

I have the classics, not the SE's -and am quite happy. It's funny, but on other ID sites, as soon as an 'upgrade' comes out, everyone scrambles to trade in their current speakers for the new ones.

Now, I get that to a certain point, but everyone? Kinda tells me that they were blowing smoke up my arse to begin with if they're so willing to give up their so called 'perfect' speaker for something unheard - alarm bells go off with me right away.
The classics and SE's have the same characteristics.....the tonal character does not change and the designer/engineer is the same guy. With the other ID sites, the character of the speakers change, and sometime the designer is a different guy.

[bikeman]

The classics and SE's have the same characteristics.....the tonal character does not change and the designer/engineer is the same guy.
My wife and I have spent a good deal of time with the classics and SE's. We still have the Classics for several more hours and I'm doing one more comparison before I have to trade them for a pair of 200's tomorrow morning. OK, so Jeff is throwing in a bit o cash but it's a good deal for both of us.
The SE's give up none of the sound of the Classics, they just go lower. If you have a larger home theatre or the distance from speaker to your LP is considerable, you'll get some additional advantages. No way I was was going to keep the SE's if they weren't pretty much carbon copies of the Classics tonally.

David

[curtis]

Yup...I also think there are also some subtle changes in other areas, but in no way do they stray from the proven Ascend philosophy.

[inboardshooter]

I have a question also. I was looking for a new home theater and was almost set on an Ascend setup. However we had a family reunion and my cousin's husband, I don't know if he's considerd my cousin or not, helped me out. He owns a store in Houston, we live in Milwaukee so we don't see him much. But he was able to get me PSB Image T55's and the Image C60. The towers were around $540 for the pair and the center was about $260. And I got the S50's in the mid $500 dollar range I don't remember exactly. I'm asking, if you guys were able to get that deal (not trying to rub it in) would you choose the PSB speakers over the Ascends? I really wanted to do a comparison but I'm only 16 and can't easily pay on the internet and my parents we're too enthused about that. So I have the question in the back of my mind still how my speakers compare to the Ascends.

[bikeman]

I'm asking, if you guys were able to get that deal (not trying to rub it in) would you choose the PSB speakers over the Ascends?
No, but if I was 16 and got those PSB's, I'd be in 7th heaven. Those are nice speakers. Enjoy.

David

[curtis]

I'm with Dave. The PSB's are good, and the only way to know your preference is to compare.

It looks as though you got a great deal. Enjoy and worry about other things. I didn't my first pair of real speakers until I was out of college and had a job.

[boludaso]

The first thing that went thru my head when i listened to my 170's was Holy ****. I had no idea what i was missing all these years. I upgraded from crappy Jensons. With lots of young kids, it was all i wanted.

I was listening to Fleetwood Mac the first night and had my eyes closed and when one of the symbols? or some similar type instrument was struck i heard it visually in my head. weird, but i actually visualized it.

then hearing a violincello? in one of Sarah McLachlins song freak me out. I thought something came loose in the speaker because the vibration of the strings was so real it sounded as if the speaker was jacked. No, no, it was what i now remember a real instrument sounding like that last time i had heard it live.
My words to describe my 170's...."thanks Dave".