Got 340s! After quickly listening, I'm bummed...

[GirgleMirt]

Well I just went to UPS to get the papers, then to Douanes Canada to do the paperwork (brokerage) and back to UPS to finally get the speakers, quickly upacked and setup the 340SE + stands next to the Totem Sttafs, and had a quick listen. Just some quick Pink Floyd and Diana Krall for now. I know that these are just out of the box, but anyhow I'm not quite convinced break in will make a big difference...

Anyhow, I'm just typing this very quickly, and actually I just HAD to stop in the middle to go listen to some Don Ross... But damnit, I'm even more bummed now, even a bit depressed... :o

Very quickly... I can't say I had placement of the Sttafs down perfect, and I just set the 340s next to them... I'm also using an EQ with the Sttafs, to 'fix' them some bit, but I can't say I've got it 100% right so far, so I just turned off the EQ for the 340s... So thats it, probably not perfect placement and no time to mess with the EQ. No A/B with the Totems, I just listened to the Ascends like that.

Well I have to eat and get ready for a Football game, actually, I have like 15 mins to eat and get ready (well more like 5 now...), so I really can't go in depth here... But so far... From my about 30 mins listening session... I have to say the 340s are a notch above the Totems... But I can't listen to them anymore, since I have to go now! But I don't even want to go anymore... I don't even like Football... If I wasn't meeting people there, I wouldn't even go... I want to stay here and listen to Peppino D'agostino, Modest Mouse, King Crimson, etc... WHY DOES LIFE HAS TO TORTURE ME LIKE THIS!!!

Oh well!!! There's still the 3 day weekend coming up, I can't wait! :D So far, very impressed, the Totems will most certainly be relegated to the 2nd system! David was right, they were worth the wait, but now that I got them, there's even more waiting... Always more waiting... I don't want to have to wait!!!

GirgleMirt goes unwillingly to football game... :(

[curtis]

OK....after reading the title:

"Got 340s! After quickly listening, I'm bummed..."

I had to wonder what he didn't like and read almost the whole post to understand what was going on and get to this line:

"I have to say the 340s are a notch above the Totems".

Sheesh!! :)

[SteveCallas]

Hey I'm really into HT too - but better than football? Come on now. There is no feeling better than deciding to blitz, breaking through the line like it was nothing, and knocking the RB on his ass just as he's handed the ball. Never even had a chance.

[GirgleMirt]

:p

Well I'm not a big football fan, also I wasn't playing, just watching, and the local team lost 48-13 (http://tsn.ca/cfl/news_story/?ID=176131&hubname=), so... So much for that! (Not that it mattered in the least to me anyhow!)

Ascend vs Totems. [btw, apologies in advance since I suck at the audio talk :p] Price: Totem Sttafs ~1500$cdn, Ascends 820$cdn after shipping and self brokerage with the very high canadian currency. One thing which becomes quite apparent is that the 340s really tower over the Sttafs... Look:


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/girglemirt/XT_snaps/AscendTotems.jpg

:cool:

The Totem uses a 1 inch textile and one 5.5 inch woofer vs two 6.5 inch for the Ascends. The way I ended up with the Sttafs is a long story, but in short I had Totem Arros, then traded for Sttafs. That was mostly a trade for imaging and coloration vs detail and new coloration. The Sttafs were more resolving than the Arros, but had a warmer sound signature, and IMHO quite uneven FR. Thats where the EQ and placement came in, trying to get rid of some of the FR aberrations. Not that the sound of the Sttaf on its own isn't pleasant, but it really does impose its sound on the music, which can be good or bad depending, but overall I find that hearing some notes louder than others can be annoying when its not on the original recording...

So from the quick listening session of yesterday, I think the 340s pretty much sound like I was trying to make the Sttafs sound but never quite got 100% right! UnEQd, the Sttaf's warm presentation gives some sort of deepness/layering of soundstage and once it draws you in, you sorta get an out of body experience, well that sounded strange... Well, I'm not quite sure how to describe it...

Anyhow, I'd need to do some more listening and maybe an A/B with the Totems to be sure, but I think the 340s have more resolving ability, and the 'plane/soundstage whatever they put out is more realistic. For example, Ross's acoustic guitar to me sounds more realistic on the 340's than on the Sttafs. The even FR probably has a lot to do with that... On the Sttafs, the Sttafs sorta makes up the room, and arbitrarily places the guitar a little back in the room (I guess each string/note's depth is a little different, like some low notes will sound bigger/closer, and that can detract to the experience IMHO), on the 340s, its simply there, and while on the Sttafs its still detailed but seems to be almost like burried a little bit in the back of the room, the 340s its just nearer, cleaner and clearer. Sounds more coherent.

I just finished cutting some wires so I'll later hook up each speakers to an amp and cdp and do some A/Bing, but I'm under the impression that if I was given the choice right now to keep on or the other, the Ascends would stay :\ Well that or keep the Totems, sell them, buy Ascends, and keep the extra money... I'm sure that some would prefer the presentation of the Sttafs, but so far it looks like the Ascends sound more like what I was looking for! (see Dynaudio thread (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=1966))

The 340SE are pretty good! :D

[edit] Oh yeah, when I auditionned the Sttafs, I also listened to the Totem Hawks and I'd have taken those instead of the Sttafs was it not for the extra 1500$ they cost, I'm pretty sure the 340SE sound a lot closer to those than the Sttafs did! :\

[GirgleMirt]

After finally a bit of A/Bing Sttafs/340SE, hmmm.... Its pretty close... The Sttafs are fuller, I'm not entirely sure if its because they go down lower or they have a hump in the lower frequencies(100hz maybe?), but on some recordings, ex: Dark side of the moon, they have a very enveloping sound. On other records, say one which features a single guitar, that fullness is a bit detrimental, as it will somewhat color the whole thing, in that case, the more neutral Ascends seem to take the edge. But overall, its pretty close! Almost a toss up at this point...

Btw do you guys listen with the grills on or off?

[curtis]

I have kids...the grills are always on!

[Lou-the-dog]

Same here. The grills must stay on with all the tiny probing fingers around here.

Randy

[bikeman]

No kids, no grills. But my boss says they must stay on when not in use.

David

[drewface]

i leave the grills on mainly because i enjoy the cleaner look they provide.

from my very unprofessional sound testing, ascend's grills don't appear to alter the sound at all because the material is so thin. this was my perception after standing in front of the speaker while putting the grill on and off with music playing. i noticed no change in sound.

my old speakers though... their grill had all sorts of plastic caging to support the material, which ended up muffling the sound some.

[bikeman]

I take the grills off outta habit. I doubt, no make that I'm sure I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I just wish the 340's with the grills off didn't remind me of Madonna. :(

David

[mark]

I take the grills off outta habit. I doubt, no make that I'm sure I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I just wish the 340's with the grills off didn't remind me of Madonna. :(

David

HAHAHAHA! I never thought about it that way before!

[Kpt_Krunch]

Hey Girgle - so was it worth the $60 to broker yourself? I'd do that if I had time, but I don't so I just pay the broker fees.

Sorry about your Als lol - looks like the Argo's are going to win the east (for you Yanks - that's the team Ricky Williams is playing for), the Montreal Alouettes were pounded by the B.C. Lions (the game Girgle mentions - not a pretty game for Al's fans that's for sure), and my Blue Bombers were just hammered by the Saskatchewan Roughriders today - but enough of the CFL :)

I have the 340 classics, Totem's were one speaker I was looking at, but too expensive. I'd like to get more, but too busy putting my extra money towards my new house. Hope to have it paid off in a couple of years at most (don't like Mortgages and I hate having one again) but once it's done, and especially if the Canadian $ is still strong - I'll be ordering another set of the Ascends - but the SE version.

As for the grilles on or off, I prefer them on (kids as well) but as already mentioned, there is no difference in sound.

For the money, I still think Ascend is the best value out there. Can't wait to get my hands on the SE's.

[GirgleMirt]

Hehe yeah it wasn't such a pretty game for the Als :p There was a BC guy the row right in front of us, his "Yay!"s made more than a few drunken Als fans want to kill him lol Pretty amazing the amount of commercials they managed to ram down our throats during the game... "And now its time for the [advertiser] craptacular minigame", "Seat #4 in section A3, you are the lucky winner of a 1% off coupon for your next purchase at [advertiser]!!!", "Its time for [advertise]'s break time!" really non-stop throughout the game... :rolleyes:

When I put the grills on, I had the feeling the speakers became a bit more smoother (recessed highs tiny bit), but probably its just placebo...

So in the end, so far I'm getting more enjoyement out of the Ascends than the Totems! The main thing is coloration vs no coloration. I've moved the Totems as I'm pretty much done A/Bing :)

So, a few observations. The Totems 'cheat' for soundstage, so I can't really compare, Totem's much bigger, but its mainly because it has non-flat FR IMHO... Bass response, its a little bit the same, the Sttafs have more bass, but its just because their FR isn't flat, there's a big hump in what I think is 100~120hz region, so makes comparing both really hard. The 340SE's bass has impressed me though. I was somehow expecting less. Everything seems very well controlled and tight. Very nice :)

Imaging, Sttafs might have expanded a little more outside, but to me thats really not critical, the DEQ2496 has a 'speaker width' setting to recreate that anyhow. There is no question that the 340SE's are the more faithful speakers, and to me that directly translates into a more faithful reproduction of sound and so a more realistic sound.

Each Totem model is different, but if you want a neutral speaker, I'd pretty much say scratch Totem off the list. Arro/Sttaf/Rainmaker/Mite/Forrest/Model1, probably the others too, aren't very neutral, they all have their own signature sound. I'm a much more 'neutral' kind of guy, and surprisingly, when I bought the Arros one of the reason I got them was because I thought they sounded more natural. The way I ended up with the Sttafs was also pretty weird... Anyhow, colored speakers are always somewhat at the mercy of some recordings. Neutral speakers are simply IMHO the way to go.

But after having said that, I really enjoyed the Arros, actually more than the Sttafs, but the Arros are a long way back so I couldn't really compare them to the 340SEs... In the end, sound quality only, I have to say the 340SEs are better speakers than the Sttafs. If you're looking at the bang for the buck, Sttafs 1500$, 340SEs around 850$cdn[dit: after shipping], there's no question which is the better value. But, some of that $ goes for the veneer and finishing on the Totems, so you have to factor that for those wanting speakers with a specific look... SQ? Personaly, 340SE's hands down.

Brokerage, UPS truck delivery building is about 20 mins from my place, so had I not got lost in the damn industrial area (I hate Lachine & that area :p), I could probably have done the whole thing in about 1.5 hours. If I didn't do the brokerage, since they ship during the weekdays when I'm at work, I'd have had to go to UPS to pick them up anyhow, which would probably have taken 40 mins ~ 1 hour. So I'd say yeah. As a matter of principle also I just don't want to pay them 65$ for 5 minutes worth of 'work'... I think they're really unscrupulous to charge that much so really don't want to encourage the thieves... Best thing is not to use them at all, but when u have no choice :(

Oh yeah, another thing I remember from my last purchase (although might have been fedEx...), there can be extra fees. Ex: 65 brokerage fees, but there's around 100$ of taxes to pay. So UPS pays the taxes while doing the brokerage (lends you the money), but then charges you like 8$ for that service. And thats on top of the already outrageous brokerage fees. gg thieves! Just the more reason to do it yourself...

When you get to customs it goes like this. "Hi, I'm here to brokerage this [hands papers]", [custom guy looks at papers], "what is it?", "its speakers", "do you have the receipt?", "ah not here sorry... didn't know I needed to bring them...", "so you bought them by phone?", "nope, bought from the web", "from ebay?", "ah nope its an online store, Ascend", "paid with CC?", "yes", "Are they **** speakers?", "(little smile) no its Ascend speakers, you buy direct from the manufacturer", "ah, ok hold on". He goes to his desk, types on computer for 2 minutes, stamps the papers, "there you go, you can pay there". Go to the cash machine, pay, you're out of there in less than 10 minutes.

EDIT: Huh? **** = no highs, no lows, must be Bo... ;)

[Quinn]

"Imaging, Sttafs might have expanded a little more outside..."

I always wondered how the on-line world lore of soundstage/imaging while listening beyond the outside of one of the speakers came to be. Who does critical listening while sitting to the outside of their speakers???

[GirgleMirt]

Thats not what I meant... More like, you're sitting in the middle, but sound seems to appear from outside the speakers... Ex: on the right of the right speaker. Its certainly not a huge difference, and not something I attribute critical importance, but hey... Actually, That might not even be true as I think about it, because of the way the speakers were setup (T,A,,,,,,T,A) maybe it has more to do that I was listening for something on the right, but then one of the speaker was closer to the right wall, so that could have been an advantage for one speaker (placement..)

I think imaging in the above sens is more of a matter of horizontal dispersion? More dispersion = more sound reflected off walls, = more sens of sound expanding 'outside' the speakers?

[Kpt_Krunch]

Girgle - agree on the brokerage. You're lucky - mine came in through Richmond, B.C. - so I would have to down there to broker them myself. In my case, I gotta bend over and take what they charge me to get them. However, two things allow me to swallow it better - #1 - Ascend eats part of the shipping charge (most people don't realize that - David had told me he splits with the buyer about 50/50). #2 - the speakers are more than worth the extra it cost me to pay for the (ripoff) brokerage fee. If the speakers were not good (like another company on line that I won't mention, but most here know what I'm talking about) then that would be a different story.

I dunno - I hope I have the patience to hold off for a couple of year. I already have a nice spot picked out for the SE's :D