Remedying weak bass of 340SE

[incyphe]

After 2 months of waiting, I finally received my 340SE today. Yay~

I hooked them up to HK635 and the first thing I noticed was the lack of bass. (I also noticed the superior sound clarity, but that's not the problem of course)

340SE was supposed to an upgrade from my 21 year old Jensen bookshelf speakers which have the same height, but 50% wider to accomodate bigger bass driver.

But compared to the old clunker, 340SE's bass is pretty much non-existent.

I guess having a relatively large 25' (facing this wall) x 17' room with 9' ceiling doesn't help. I was hoping to get away with not buying a subwoofer, but I guess that doesn't appear to be an option at this point.

Sorry for rambling.... but would VTF-2 suffice or do I need to plunk down another $200 for VTF-3? Thanks for your help! :)

[curtis]

Although I don't doubt the Jensens extended deeper, I am willing to bet the Ascends and more linear and the bass that the do play is cleaner.

If you long for true clean deep bass for music, the VTF-2 would suffice....but for HT in that big of a room, the STF-3 or VTF-3 will be needed.

[BGHD]

I hooked them up to HK635 and the first thing I noticed was the lack of bass. (I also noticed the superior sound clarity, but that's not the problem of course)

How did you calibrate? EZset or manual? What source material (movies, SACDs, 2ch music)?

When I had a 435, I found it took several tries with EZset with some manual tweaking, to get the overall sound/bass to sound to my liking. Regardless, I think a sub's a good investment.

[Lee Bailey]

The 340s are NOT a full range speaker. A sub becomes a required accessory to fill out the low end. The VTF-2 would probably suffice, for now.

[Jorge_Burrito]

Why not just turn up the bass a little, this is something you should be able to do with your receiver. I think the 340's are flat to 50 Hz which for most music is deep enough (some exceptions would be deep bass guitar heavy music and pipe organ). It may be the bass is there but you are not used to a flat curve, in which case there is nothing wrong with bumping up the bass to make it sound pleasing to your ear. Of course a subwoofer is always a good idea, especially is you try the above suggestion and it is not enough. A sub will fill out the bottom end and will bring the sound to a new plain.

[incyphe]

Tweaking the bass in the receiver definitely helps, but I guess my good old Jensens had a lot more low-end oomph that I thought. I negected to mention that Jensens were hooked up to an old Sony receiver (also bought in 1985) with bass cranked up all the way. I guess my ears will have to adjust a bit too. :D

Anyway, I decided not to get HSU and instead just ordered the new SVS PB12-NSD. I can't believe I spent $1800 in the past 2months on audio equipments w/o setting a foot in a store. :D

Thanks everyone for your help!

[shane55]

I can't believe I spent $1800 in the past 2months on audio equipments w/o setting a foot in a store. :D



You are not alone... :D

shane

[EMD]

you're most definitely not alone. In the last 6 months I've outfitted my entire basement theater: TV's (2), AVR, DVD, MP3-streamer, Ascends (3 x 340SE & 4 x 200's), Sub, speaker wire, inter-connects, and mounts over the internet. It's turned into somewhat of a game... ...refusing to buy anything at a B&M retailer.

I love it! Enjoy!

[shane55]

...refusing to buy anything at a B&M retailer.

Well... not to start an OT rant or argument, but I do everything I can to shop at B&M's. Supporting local businesses is important to me. I'm not blind about it either way and will shop for the best 'value' (put your own definition to that word), whether it be online or local.

Obviously I am buying in CA from a CA merchant (Ascend) even though I'm paying tax... which some do everything to avoid. I try to support my state or local or even national economy (if I have a chance to purchase out of the country).

As part of my 'upgrade' process I bought a new DVD universal player (Pio Elite DV-79avi). The best unit for the best price with the best 'value' was at a local B&M. It would have been foolish to not buy it from them.

JMHO - and another perspective.;)

Cheers

shane

[JackT]

The 340s are NOT a full range speaker. A sub becomes a required accessory to fill out the low end. The VTF-2 would probably suffice, for now.

Hasn't davef stated explicitly that they ARE full range speakers?

[curtis]

Hasn't davef stated explicitly that they ARE full range speakers?
He said that you don't have to be afraid to run them full range with the new polygel woofer....where with the old Aerogel woofer had reliability issues when run full range and louder volumes.

The new SE's do have more bass extension too.

[Lee Bailey]

Full range speakers should be able to reproduce from 20Hz to 20khz. Clearly not something the 340s can do. A subwoofer is recommended to fill in the bass that the 340s cannot provide. You're probably not going to be able to find any full range speakers within the price range of the Ascends.

[bikeman]

Full range speakers should be able to reproduce from 20Hz to 20khz.
I disagree on this. There's so little content down that low that a speaker can be considered full range @ a much higher freq.


You're probably not going to be able to find any full range speakers within the price range of the Ascends.
It's my limited opinion that no speaker within a thousand dollars of a 340 will competently do 20-20k. Too many compromises to get it all right. Maybe I'm just too picky about that.

David

[incyphe]

I guess back in the old days when I purchased the Jensens 21 years ago, there really was no stand-alone subwoofer (as I remember it), so the bookshelf speakers were designed to go pretty low. Anyway, SVS woofer is coming tomorrow, so we shall see! :)

[ganto]

After 2 months of waiting, I finally received my 340SE today. Yay~

I hooked them up to HK635 and the first thing I noticed was the lack of bass. (I also noticed the superior sound clarity, but that's not the problem of course)


I also got my speakers this week (yay!) and they are hooked up to a hk635. The bass seems fine, works as advertised (can go to around 45hz). I tend to leave my subwoofer off for non-demanding bass music. I have 340SE's for LCR and 170SE for surround side.

Did you rerun the HK auto config (EZset with the microphone) with your new speakers? It may be using an old setting. I didnt like the job the auto-eq did with my setup (it took a lot of the mid-low/bass out) and it was really noticable when in stereo so I disabled the auto-eq settings.

That being said you still want to get a sub though for the sub 40hz..

[Lee Bailey]

Bikeman, Full Range is just that. 20hz to 20khz. So-called limits of human hearing.

[incyphe]

I also got my speakers this week (yay!) and they are hooked up to a hk635. The bass seems fine, works as advertised (can go to around 45hz). I tend to leave my subwoofer off for non-demanding bass music. I have 340SE's for LCR and 170SE for surround side.

Did you rerun the HK auto config (EZset with the microphone) with your new speakers? It may be using an old setting. I didnt like the job the auto-eq did with my setup (it took a lot of the mid-low/bass out) and it was really noticable when in stereo so I disabled the auto-eq settings.

That being said you still want to get a sub though for the sub 40hz..

Yes! I got my SVS sub today. This thing is a lot bigger than I thought. :eek:

Anyway, when I hooked it up and played a song that had a lot of house shaking bass, the first thing that came to my mind was "oh %$#^, I didn't just spend $650 on that anemic sounding thing..."

Then as per your suggestion, I ran through the EZset with mic and it made a tremendous difference. Even at low volume, my door frame was shaking. :eek:

woohoo!

Thanks everyone again! :D

[bikeman]

Bikeman, Full Range is just that. 20hz to 20khz.
Only if you want it to be.


So-called limits of human hearing.
It's not the limits of human hearing. It's a generalization.

David

[Lee Bailey]

I'll just say that I'll agree to disagree with you on the full range speaker rating.

[BGHD]

woohoo!

Good to hear. Sounds like your problem's solved but was just thinking of your original post. You said the Jensens had more "oomph", but what was the quality of that "oomph". Clean and tight or loud and floppy? Bass quality is important too.

[bikeman]

Good to hear. Sounds like your problem's solved but was just thinking of your original post. You said the Jensens had more "oomph", but what was the quality of that "oomph". Clean and tight or loud and floppy? Bass quality is important too.
I owned a pair of Jensens from the late 70's of a similar size and I'm going from a memory so don't hold me to this. Bass quality was an oxymoron.

David

[incyphe]

Good to hear. Sounds like your problem's solved but was just thinking of your original post. You said the Jensens had more "oomph", but what was the quality of that "oomph". Clean and tight or loud and floppy? Bass quality is important too.

Not having had much experience listening to other speakers, I can't really make a fair assessment about my Jensens' quality of bass. However, what I can say for sure is that, it was capable of going much lower than 340SE. How much lower, I can't say, but it had the capacity to produce low frequency sound that can shake windows and doors even at normal volume, which wasn't something 340SE wasn't designed to do (I imagine)

I watched King Kong today and the auditory experience was a treat with the 340SE and SVS sub. (Even though I only have 2.1 setup). Too bad the movie was long and a bit mediocre. :D

[bikeman]

I watched King Kong today and the auditory experience was a treat with the 340SE and SVS sub. (Even though I only have 2.1 setup). Too bad the movie was long and a bit mediocre. :D
My wife and I watched it last night and I agree with you but my wife liked it (except for the bugs) more than I did. The LFE was way too tame. I'd read that in the forums but was still surprised at the lack of deep bass even in the jungle scenes.

David

[dbart]

Yes King Kong was whimpy in the bass. Try War of the Worlds, or Haunting DTS.... :p

The 340's are not full range and must be used with a sub if you want full range. I can only imagine how bloated the mid bass hump is in those old Jensens are (disco boom boxes :D ).
The 340's will have an accurate mid bass that many inexperienced enthusiasts precieve as little or no bass.

[JackT]

You know you're an audio freak when you judge movies by how much bass they have. :)

[shane55]

dbart is right on both counts.
KK was disappointing... especially after the serious LEF's on LOTR!

WOTW was so intense that anything that was 'motion sensitive' was lighting up! My receivers' remote control kept going on. Could be the most bass-intensive movie I've ever played... especially the beginning, when things were rising up from the ground. Yeowzer!

shane

[Mag_Neato]

KK was decent, but anything after the original is just a copy! I, too, was surprised that the LFE was as tame as it is.....Kong's footfalls should've shook the room.

Still gotta see WOTW even though everyone was disappointed by the story, just for the sound. After all.....we are a buncha audio geeks, right? :D

[shane55]

After all.....we are a buncha audio geeks, right? :D

Well... since we will recommend 'watching' a crappy movie simply for the LFE's... I'd say that's a big yes.:D

shane

[curtis]

It is funny.....

I have friends in the movie business, and some of them are voting members of the "Academy". For most of the movies that are up for awards, the members get DVD copies of the movies to watch....most of them just watch the movies on their TV using their TV's speakers.

I recently met some people that work on the audio side....so of course, they care.....I'm not sure if they are voting members, and I know they are more concerned with the overall sound....not just the LFE. :)

[incyphe]

It is funny.....

I have friends in the movie business, and some of them are voting members of the "Academy". For most of the movies that are up for awards, the members get DVD copies of the movies to watch....most of them just watch the movies on their TV using their TV's speakers.

I recently met some people that work on the audio side....so of course, they care.....I'm not sure if they are voting members, and I know they are more concerned with the overall sound....not just the LFE. :)

Here's a list of movies that won awards for sound...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Sound

I certainly hope your friends don't vote on this particular category... :confused:

[curtis]

The sound folks actually have their own award ceromonies for different aspects.....such as dialouge, sound effects, foley.......the list goes on.

[shane55]

Well... hey... maybe in the theaters KingKong rocked! I don't know as I didn't see it there. It certainly was not mixed especially well for home theater. WarOWorlds was, because in the theater it did not have nearly the impact that it had in my house. Then again... I saw it in a real cheezy theater... :o

shane

[twalker294]

dbart is right on both counts.
KK was disappointing... especially after the serious LEF's on LOTR!

WOTW was so intense that anything that was 'motion sensitive' was lighting up! My receivers' remote control kept going on. Could be the most bass-intensive movie I've ever played... especially the beginning, when things were rising up from the ground. Yeowzer!

shane

What kind of sub do you use shane?

[shane55]

What kind of sub do you use shane?
I have an SVS PB10-ISD.

shane

[drewface]

i'm a little late to this thread, but i'd like to throw some comments out there.

first off, me and my girlfriend really liked the new king kong, and can't quite understand why it got so many negative responses, most of which were because of its length. i personnally love long movies (watched all three LOTR extended versions back to back twice now, and will become an annual event i think). but to each his own.

as for the "weak bass" of the 340SE, i really find that hard to believe. i watched aeon flux two nights ago with ONLY a pair of 170SE's, no sub, no surround, nothing, and there was plenty of bass for my taste. maybe i'm a wuss when it comes to bass, but i thought it sounded fantastic, and even commented to my girl how happy i was with the sound.

i can only imagine that once i get the 340SE's across the front (plan on getting the center in the next couple weeks, which i desperately need for watching movies at this point) and move the 170SE's to surround duty, it will only sound better with even more bass. depending on that, i may choose to pass on the sub for longer than initially planned.

to summarize, if the 170's can produce the amount of bass they do, i don't see why people complain about the 340's lacking bass. oh well...