View Full Version : AV123 sale

12-16-2003, 01:14 AM
It IS just a sale to clear out remaining stock before the end of the year (a commong business practice for many reasons). They sell plenty at their regular prices.

12-16-2003, 01:24 AM
My take is more in line with yours, Quinn - at least the perforamce over looks part. Perhaps to their dismay, they keep getting compaired to Axiom/Ascend and the consenses seem that they perform similarily, if not worse on high end sound. When you price compare, its hard to stomach the extra 400 dollars or so for onix rockets.

Re: their stock levels - who truly knows that? Perhaps actual employees. Oh sure they can say they are overstocked, but who believes everything they hear? And there's nothing magical about the end of the year for a speaker maker. It not like they're a car dealer or anything like that.

12-16-2003, 01:24 AM
But, at 50% isn't that going to hurt future full priced sales?

12-16-2003, 01:27 AM
Maybe they are clearing out these models for them to get the "sig" treatment like the 750's.

12-16-2003, 01:28 AM
Its possible they had a wide profit margin to begin with, and they are just narrowing that to be more competitive. I guess they "could" have a new line of onix rockets coming out too, and then no one would want the old ones - so sell them while you can. But who knows.

12-16-2003, 01:35 AM
Aznon- I remember a "concerned" response to Curtis on one of the boards from MLS when Curtis pointed out that if you switched out subs from an Ascend 170 package and an ELT package the cost of each was virtually the same. IIRC the ELTs dropped from $999 to $899 not too longer there after.

12-16-2003, 01:35 AM
I feel sorry for those that bought some onix speakers recently. That was no small price cut. I wonder what they are doing for customers who brought recently, especially within 30 days.

12-16-2003, 01:43 AM
I'm sure they'd have to adjust anyone in the 30 day period or they would just send them back and re-order. Which gets me back to the 50% sales is on the 150s, 250s, and 100CC only so they must not be selling up to expectations.

12-16-2003, 01:47 AM
Well it puts the squeeze on other speaker makers in that price range too. They are definitely an attractive option at that price range. I'd probably still go Ascends, preferring superior mid-highs to wood finishing, but i can see how others might opt for the latter.

12-16-2003, 02:12 AM
I just posted this in a thread over on HTF....

I'm in agreement with Chris.

I have heard both(I own neither) the ELT's and the RS150. IMO, when either is matched with good sub(not the ELT sub), of the two, the ELT is a much better sounding speaker/system, for music and HT.

I would not be surprised if the 150, 250, and 100 were to be replaced by "sig" models much like the RS750 has been, or even all new models.

This could be just a "holiday" sale....if it is, why not put everything on sale?


12-16-2003, 02:34 AM
I'm no economist, but I think crazy swings in prices cant be a good thing for a small company. It raises all kinds of questions: 1. Were you overcharging before? 2. Are your speakers not selling because something's wrong with them? 3. Are your speakers not as good as the competition, and your only solution is to lower the price? (i could list many more here)

In a weird sort of way, I cant help but lose some respect for them. A 50% drop in price in a mainstream product is jolting.

12-16-2003, 02:42 AM
From reading more and that 50% cut, I'm guessing that the 150, 250, 100 cc are going to be replaced soon and they are trying to sell what they have. Also at least one Rocket-head has stated that for HT the ELT(for it's CC) is the better choice.

12-16-2003, 03:27 AM
Yup, im with ya Quinn. Seems most likely.

12-16-2003, 03:41 AM
I'll put good money down that those models are not being replaced and that this is a true sale. In the business world, things like this are done all of the time before the end of a fiscal year to improve numbers and clear out old stock. I know the guys down there and, more importantly, I know Mark's integrity. Everyone is welcome to interpret this how they want, but I take them for their word just as I take Dave F on his.

12-16-2003, 04:14 AM
Time will most likely tell. You did give me a good idea: i need to hop over to av123 and see what they're saying there.

(edit) How is Mark's integrity on the line? A sale is a sale and a company is entitled to have one for whatever reason. Did he clarify some allegations or something about it? I didnt see any posts to that effect at av123.

12-16-2003, 04:26 AM
I expect "sig" versions not discontinuation. I agree about MLS' integrity but that doesn't mean that they aren't trying to avoid a situation like they had sellings Divas as B-stock for months when they started selling the Rockets. They can have a great sale and reduce the number made and in a few months roll out "sigs" with little to no "old" inventory. Nothing wrong with that. I'd consider it smart business. But, I think going back to full price is going to be a tough sell to anyone that knows that they had them 50% off.

12-16-2003, 04:38 AM
sig meaning signature? Sorry, im actually brand new into this hobby.

Right - under virtually all scenarios, its good business, not an integrity issue.

"But, I think go back to full price is going to be a tough sell to anyone that knows that they had them 50% off."

... yet another concern with what they did. You dont just put a high cost item on a 50% sale and go back. In fact, i'll be shocked if they do.

12-16-2003, 05:17 AM
Yes, Signature.

12-16-2003, 05:58 AM
Actually, I believe Mark has already said that the 750s would be the only 'Sig' models as that change was made to address feedback specific to that model and how it handles high frequencies.

Mark's integrity are on the line because of statements in this thread like "Oh sure they can say they are overstocked, but who believes everything they hear?". For the record, they never said they were overstocked, just that they wanted to clear out what was currently sitting in the warehouse.

"You dont just put a high cost item on a 50% sale and go back."

Happens all of the time. We're in the prime time of the year for such things. Heck, just look at the loss leader on the front of any number of Sunday newspaper ads everyday. As I said, there are plenty of reasons for businesses to do this and one is just to generate more discussion/interest. Judging from the fact that there is a two page thread on the topic on a forum for a competitor, it has certainly suceeded in that aspect. Since the offer was first extended in a mailing to existing owners, it has also suceeded in rewarding brand loyalty. Not to mention it boosts their sales figures for the quarter.

Considering all of the benefits and the general company plan for expansion of their product line, it's probably a good business move.

Things go on sale all the time (yes, even at 50% off), I don't understand why people are so thrown by this one.

12-16-2003, 06:38 AM

I totally understand what you are saying, but it is a slow day so I will throw out some questions just out of interest.

Why just the RS150, RS250, and RSC100? 50% is a lot off of a "high value" item, if they go back up to the "regular" price from there, I think it causes some problems on the perceived value. If it is a loss leader, then they are expecting that draw will lead to sales of somethingelse, which I am not seeing from the posts. A loss leader also does not boost the bottom line.

Things do go on sale all the time at 50% off, but not at an exclusive store. Nobodyelse sells Rockets. If something goes on sale for 50% off at such a store, it is being discontinued or changed for some reason or another. The RS750 if I remember correctly, was on sale before the sig 750 came out. A 10-15-and maybe even 20% sale I can see, but I 50% off, you got to wonder.

If I am selling something to one person that I claim to be a great value, and then sell it later for 50% off to the next person, what does that do to the value I sold the first person?

Anyways...this is just for discussion sake.


12-16-2003, 08:37 AM

The why on the ones picked is probably two fold. First is availability, they've said they have a bunch sitting in the warehouse to clear out. Second is likely cost, 50% off a cheaper model is less of a loss than offering it on a more expensive one.

12-16-2003, 10:23 AM
Well the nice thing here is hindsight will eventually tell the story on this one.

Also BradJudy, by your own statement, Mark only said he wants to clear out what is currently sitting in the warehouse. No risk of breaking integrity there considering cutting the prices in half should be very effective at accomplishing that objective. Just clarifying that cause i'm sure this Mark fellow i dont know is a nice guy. But there's nothing wrong with us speculating what's up with the price cut.

12-16-2003, 10:35 AM
Azanon, here is Mark's reply:

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Wow... good stuff... I'll do my best to explain...

We do in fact have some superb competition out there... good for them... good for us... The simple truth though is all about good business sense...

We are currently in 40,000 square feet in our factory... We are due to open our 180,000 square foot facility just after Chinese New Year... We are a little behind right now as the apartments for our senior staff are not ready... and neither is the commissary... but we are close...

I tried to plan this out as best as I could... so, before closing down the old factory we built a pile of goods... As such, we are set to receive 2400 speakers over the next 3 weeks (400 of which arrived today) and then another 2400 speakers 3 weeks later... This is way more than what we need (normally)... but I wanted to insure an uninterrupted flow of product through our New Year... Chinese New Year... and Russian Orthodox New Year... We are ready...

Our warehouse cannot support what we are bringing in (ask Mike at ACI about warehouse space... he'll just smile... or David at Ascend)... this is THE X Factor these days...

I simply moved what we had lots of (250's and 150's mainly) and at prices that are fair and reasonable... We make a reasonable margin... and I'm not ashamed of that... I'm in business... and this is America, right?

Further... there are no new products planned that have not already been announced with the exception of one speaker that will be unveiled at CES... No biggie... no new speakers planned. The RS 1K's and the Strata product will all make their way out next year...

The best way to answer the "belly up" issue is to ask why would I invest HUGE dollars in a new 180K sq. ft. ground up factory *if* I were going belly up? Good question... The fact of the matter is we are building more and more cabinets for our competitors than ever before... and you will see several examples of this at CES... some are just sensational, BTW...

Our margins are fair... they are the by product or building mass quantities of speakers in The PRC... we make a fair margin... and by selling some of our product at lower than normal margins to open space, clean up the warehouse... and get ready for new larger loads of speakers over the next 6 weeks just makes sense... Most of the 150's and 250's sold went with other product also...

We also moved what small quantities of b stock we had on the warehouse floor... also a good idea at this time of year...

I hope this illuminates the shadows...

To those of you that were able to order and get some of these really nice deals I have only this to say... GOOD FOR YOU... The RS 150 and RS 250 are spectacular products at the regular price... and at 50% off... they are a STEAL...

Happy Holidays...

All the best...

mls<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

12-16-2003, 10:38 AM
I saw it - it was a direct replay to me and I already responded.

Maybe i should have been a little more fair to him. Between you guys, i'm still a little skeptical, but I mostly recanted on AVS. (/shy) The visiblity at AVS, Inc. seems to be quite high.

(edit) He did give a direct answer (more or less) regarding price margins though. They are at least double. I honestly dont have any opinion about that one way or the other - maybe a more than double price margin is perfectly normal. Now that i think about it - it probably is.

12-16-2003, 11:09 AM
Azanon, I know you've posted it before here but will you remind me what Ascends you ordered? I've about decided on a package and was wondering if you went with the 340s.

12-16-2003, 11:16 AM
I went with 170s L/R, 340 center, 200s rear, and VTF-2. And let me mention David was excellent help in the process. They are coming in Thursday and Friday, yipee! I actually took off work, lol. I can just see the UPS man dropping them off, then some guy with a pickup truck drive by seeing those large boxes by my front door, then loading them up.

12-16-2003, 11:46 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by azanon

I went with 170s L/R, 340 center, 200s rear, and VTF-2. And let me mention David was excellent help in the process. They are coming in Thursday and Friday, yipee! I actually took off work, lol. I can just see the UPS man dropping them off, then some guy with a pickup truck drive by seeing those large boxes by my front door, then loading them up.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Darn, I was hoping you had gone with the 340s across the front. I wanted to slither my way into an audition. The 340s are what I am leaning towards for my fronts. I will certainly be interested in hearing your opinion of the 200 surrounds. I want to use them also. I'm just hoping they will blend with the 340s. I hate that they don't go a shade lower. I wanted all my speakers to be strong down to 80Hz.

12-16-2003, 11:52 AM
Well they are all supposedly timbre matched, and i'll just use my test tone on my receiver to make sure all of my speakers are volume matched. I considered 340s for L/R as well, but just ended up going 170s. 80hz still falls above the -3db point for the 200s though I think. No matter for me since i intend to use my Sony's internal crossover at 100hz anyway, and just let the VTF-2 take it from there.

01-14-2004, 04:04 AM
True to their word, they put the 150 and 250 back to the original price. No way in hell i'd pay that now, if I were buying today. I'm just one of those people that want a great deal, and I'd be incapable of tricking my mind into thinking I'm getting that when they used to sell them, even if only for a short time, at half that price.

Would you buy the exact same car for $30,000 if it used to be sold for $15K a month ago? I wouldn't.

01-14-2004, 04:47 AM
Lol. well, you chose the most extreme example as a point in comparison, triple-stacking the deck in your favor, so to speak, but I understand your point.

and I agree with you.

01-14-2004, 04:54 AM
True I did, but mathematically speaking, its a sound analogy.

01-14-2004, 05:15 AM
a sound analogy, no pun intended. ;-)