View Full Version : We really need a 200SE
d-v-c
02-27-2006, 09:09 PM
I'm really impressed with the response curve of the new 170SE. No peaks or dips.
But, now Ascend seems to have created a problem for those of us that need a center speaker. The 200 is the perfect size to fit in front of an HDTV. It's only 6.5 inches high.
A center speaker handles so much of both music or a soundtrack -- so one really would like the new tweeter in the center channel.
The marketing material says the 200 is "timber matched" but it's unclear what that REALLY means. It seems to me unless the tweeter is exactly the same -- the center will always sound different. And, if the new tweeter really sounds better -- then the 200 logically sounds worse.
I do see a pix of a 170SE tipped on it's side, but I'm not sure that is such a good idea. If it was -- then why have "center speakers" been developed.
We really need a 200SE which should be a trival enhancement. :)
Advice?
S_rangeBrew
03-06-2006, 08:12 AM
Agreed. After all the raving about the new tweeter, it seems kind of odd to say it wouldn't really help the 200. David said it would make the 200 cost more, but I think the main reason people get the 200 is not price, but it's small size... maybe I'm wrong?
Anyway, the current 200 is a great speaker, and I plan to get a couple more in the near future, SE or not. They will go along with a 340SE front stage, and I'm sure they will sound great.
The 200s sound so good as my main speakers right now, it seems almost a crime to relegate them to surround duty. :o
d-v-c
03-06-2006, 07:41 PM
Agreed. After all the raving about the new tweeter, it seems kind of odd to say it wouldn't really help the 200. David said it would make the 200 cost more, but I think the main reason people get the 200 is not price, but it's small size... maybe I'm wrong?
The price increase from the 170 to 170SE wasn't much -- was it?
Yes -- the 200 is important because of its small size!
I think I'll wait until the new tweeter is added to make a 200SE.
The current 200 can be used for the surrounds.
davef
03-06-2006, 08:18 PM
Hi guys,
Believe me.. I am reading this thread ;)
Take care!
S_rangeBrew
03-09-2006, 11:07 AM
Hi guys,
Believe me.. I am reading this thread ;)
Take care!
What a tease. :mad:
Lee Bailey
03-09-2006, 07:41 PM
Hi guys,
Believe me.. I am reading this thread ;)
Take care!
Well then Dave, any word on the imagers yet? :D
GaryB
03-10-2006, 12:45 AM
Imagers? :confused:
chasw98
03-10-2006, 09:27 AM
Hi guys,
Believe me.. I am reading this thread ;)
Take care!
A pair of 200SE's would sure sound great as my rears in a 7.1 setup with 340SE's across the front and 170SE's at the sides :D
Samurai Jack
03-27-2006, 12:23 PM
I just wanted to chime in and say like I've said elsewhere that I agree 100%. I'd love for the four HTM-200's I plan to buy for my 7.1 system to be "SE" models with the upgraded tweeter, and would gladly pay the difference. I'm not buying the HTMs because they're cheaper. I'm buying them for the form factor and because I need a sealed design for wall-mounting these in my space-limited room.
C'mon Dave! Let's see some HTM love!
Question for those who've upgraded their classic CBMs or CMTs (and first let me say serious, serious kudos to Dave for making this possible when considering the new design): how much of a pain was that in terms of shipping and cost to get them done? If there's a possibility for HTMs to get the SE treatment...should I be waiting, or should I jump in and hope for an upgrade later?
With a set of CMT-340 SEs planned across the front, I'm already jealous of not being able to install the CBM-170 SEs in side and rear duty with their exactly matching tweeters and their perfectly matching 6.5" aerogel drivers. I really, really want HTM-200 SEs that give me at least the tweeter...the important part for the frequency spectrum thrown at these.
D@mn my own fussy, nitpicking nature! But then, that's why I want Ascends (and why I like martinis, but that's not important right now). :p
BradJudy
03-27-2006, 01:08 PM
Question for those who've upgraded their classic CBMs or CMTs (and first let me say serious, serious kudos to Dave for making this possible when considering the new design): how much of a pain was that in terms of shipping and cost to get them done? If there's a possibility for HTMs to get the SE treatment...should I be waiting, or should I jump in and hope for an upgrade later?
I'm having a pair of 170s upgraded and it cost me $20 to ship them from Colorado to Ascend via UPS ground. Plus the actual upgrade cost of $80/each puts me at $180 total. (Actually, I'm not sure if the upgrade cost includes return shipping or if that will be another $20 - I'll ask when I call in to pay for the upgrade, which I should do sometime soon :D )
curtis
03-27-2006, 01:27 PM
So Brad...your custom veneered cabinets are at Ascend right now? :D
Samurai Jack
03-27-2006, 01:31 PM
Just seems wrong to make Dave or his staff rip apart my old 200's when I could have just waited for them to be built that way to begin with. Assuming this is even something they're considering (but c'mon, they must be).
Grrr, I'm all ready to buy, though! I've been shopping these for over a year now. This tax refund was burning a hole in my pocket before I even got the check. : (
Ah well, there are worse dillemas in life.
BradJudy
03-27-2006, 02:14 PM
So Brad...your custom veneered cabinets are at Ascend right now? :D
Yep, assuming they haven't already left (they arrived on Thursday, and I expect they'll be finished today or tomorrow). If you call in, perhaps you can stop by and see them, but I'm not sure they are so exciting to be worth a visit. :)
curtis
03-27-2006, 02:18 PM
Yep, assuming they haven't already left (they arrived on Thursday, and I expect they'll be finished today or tomorrow). If you call in, perhaps you can stop by and see them, but I'm not sure they are so exciting to be worth a visit. :)
:) I was going to see how they look in my livingroom.
BradJudy
03-27-2006, 02:40 PM
:) I was going to see how they look in my livingroom.
Hehe - you could try and sneak out with them, but it probably wouldn't take me long to figure out where they went. :)
BTW: I just got off the phone with Dave and the $160 is before return shipping, so $180 to Ascend plus $20 to ship them out gives a grand total of $200 for the upgrade.
Samurai Jack
04-05-2006, 03:52 PM
Soooo...
...how bout those 200 SE's?
curtis
04-05-2006, 04:02 PM
Although DaveF said he is listening to this thread.....if he were to decide to put the new tweeter in the HTM-200, knowing that the CBM-170SE has a new crossover to go with the new drivers, and with the amount of work to get things "right", I don't think an HTM-200SE will be a quick turnaround.
GaryB
04-05-2006, 10:03 PM
I have actually corresponded with Dave F. about this and think the following is a fair summary of what he could tell me:
1. He is considering some kind of upgrade. One of the possibilities he may be considering would be to simply install the new SEAS tweeter and tweak the crossover, as Curtis describes above.
2. With good-quality $199/pr. competitors becoming available, he wants to minimize any associated price increase. Since the HTM-200 is already a rather low-profit item, due to its expensive cast-basket woofers and the necessity to sell it for significantly less than the larger CBM-170 SE, he doesn't have much room to maneuver.
3. An upgrade is likely, though not certain.
4. Don't hold your breath.
Samurai Jack
04-10-2006, 01:15 PM
4. Don't hold your breath.
:eek: HwaaaaaAAAAAAAH!
...
:)
...
;)
...
:rolleyes:
...
:o
...
:(
...
:mad:
...
:eek: PHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!
Okay, I give up I ordered. :D
KojiroTakenashi
04-17-2006, 05:53 PM
Yeah, I'd think that with the competition getting hotter, there would have to be more R&D...tweeters are already covered, but the price on the woofers would need to come down, I think.
Sam1000
05-06-2006, 11:19 PM
Looks like the cost of upgrading classic 170 to SE is $200 with shipping. Why would anyone upgrade these speakers when the new ones cost $368 with shipping? I'm sure the classics are worth more than $168 on audiogon.
Unless someone has spent extra money on the original cabinets of course.
Hehe - you could try and sneak out with them, but it probably wouldn't take me long to figure out where they went. :)
BTW: I just got off the phone with Dave and the $160 is before return shipping, so $180 to Ascend plus $20 to ship them out gives a grand total of $200 for the upgrade.
BradJudy
05-07-2006, 08:06 AM
Looks like the cost of upgrading classic 170 to SE is $200 with shipping. Why would anyone upgrade these speakers when the new ones cost $368 with shipping? I'm sure the classics are worth more than $168 on audiogon.
Unless someone has spent extra money on the original cabinets of course.
If it wasn't for my cabinets, I would probably have taken this route as I expect you're correct - it's probably a cheaper upgrade path.
Does anyone use these wall-mounted around a plasma or LCD? Being sealed, it seems like they would work well for that type of application (more so once the SE models arrive!).
Anyone using an all HTM-200 system?
JackT
10-12-2007, 10:42 AM
Does anyone use these wall-mounted around a plasma or LCD? Being sealed, it seems like they would work well for that type of application (more so once the SE models arrive!).
Anyone using an all HTM-200 system?
Yes I am using an all HTM-200 5.1 system. All wall mounted, and the LCR are mounted around a wall-mounted plasma. It is awesome. My sub is the HSU MK 2.3.
It is a 100% HT setup and I cannot imagine it being any better.
Yes I am using an all HTM-200 5.1 system. All wall mounted, and the LCR are mounted around a wall-mounted plasma. It is awesome. My sub is the HSU MK 2.3.
Sounds nice....Any pictures of your set-up?
davef
10-12-2007, 02:32 PM
We really need a 200SE which should be a trival enhancement. :)Advice?
It has been a long time coming, took longer than even I expected... But HTM-200 SE is now here. Production is very limited at this point but we are shipping.
Same "SE" tweeter as CBM-170 SE and all new higher compliance "polygel" woofers with double the magnet strength. These new woofers took nearly a year to get just right, but they are fantastic. A full 20Hz drop in system Fo, resulting in deeper bass extension and MUCH better punch and dynamics. In fact, the impact and bass response is now very close to the "classic" CBM-170.
The important matter is the speaker is now closer in performance to our "SE" line and the Sierra.
I will post more on this soon, with some pictures. While the HTM-200 SE is costing us 22% more to manufacture, I am not raising the price at this time.
In my opinion, for a speaker of this size and versatility -- there is nothing in the market that can compete.
azanon
10-12-2007, 02:55 PM
It has been a long time coming, took longer than even I expected... But HTM-200 SE is now here. Production is very limited at this point but we are shipping.
Awesome Dave! Question!:
Does it weight more than the original; please go by even tenths of a pound? As i mentioned in another thread, I've actually been balancing an HTM-200 on top of my 40" Sony LCD for a few months now without harm to the TV or the speaker (with the back resting against a cabinet for stability). But I'm going to be nervous for every 0.1 pounds above the current model I add! Also, is it the same footprint as the original?
davef
10-12-2007, 03:00 PM
Does it weight more than the original; please go by even tenths of a pound? As i mentioned in another thread, I've actually been balancing an HTM-200 on top of my 40" Sony LCD for a few months now without harm to the TV or the speaker (with the back resting against a cabinet for stability). But I'm going to be nervous for every 0.1 pounds above the current model I add! Also, is it the same footprint as the original?
Yes, it is going to weigh more (the woofers and tweeter are heavier). The cabinet is exactly the same. I will try and get an exact weight by the end of the day.
curtis
10-12-2007, 03:30 PM
Hmmm...I smell a little sound system for my daughter around Christmas!
davef
10-12-2007, 03:41 PM
Hmmm...I smell a little sound system for my daughter around Christmas!
Hi Curtis,
You need to hear these little guys. Production is VERY slow right now as we are building all the crossovers by hand until the first container arrives (~Novemberish) I will try and have a demo pair built up for you to take home for a few days (or anyone else who is local to us).
Dr. Hsu would love these ;)
Jonnyozero3
10-12-2007, 04:03 PM
Ahh, this is great, fun news :)
I actually have a friend who may be a perfect candidate for this. Hmmm....
Good timing!
blindcat7
10-12-2007, 05:17 PM
Oh, man. Just finally ordered my Sierra 1 center to match my mains and now I am going to have to start saving again. I had totally ruled out ever going 7.1 in my current room, but if I had such a small speaker that could be wall mounted or placed on some wall mounted shelves, it might actually work. I am going to have to do some serious thinking. Great news Dave!
Chris
azanon
10-12-2007, 05:40 PM
Hi Curtis,
You need to hear these little guys. Production is VERY slow right now as we are building all the crossovers by hand until the first container arrives (~Novemberish) I will try and have a demo pair built up for you to take home for a few days (or anyone else who is local to us).
Dr. Hsu would love these ;)
Guess I'm confused a bit. I thought you said it was available for shipping if I were to order one, say, ............next Monday. ;-)
BradJudy
10-12-2007, 05:48 PM
Any trade-in deals on existing HTM-200's?
davef
10-12-2007, 06:40 PM
Guess I'm confused a bit. I thought you said it was available for shipping if I were to order one, say, ............next Monday. ;-)
Sorry for any confusion. They are available and shipping. I think we have shipped around 20 pairs already. Production is slow, we have to build the crossovers by hand and there are quite a few components. If you order a pair (simply order a pair of HTM-200, all we will be shipping now are HTM-200 SE) it will simply take us a bit longer to ship than usual. 3-5 days is my guess.
davef
10-12-2007, 06:52 PM
Any trade-in deals on existing HTM-200's?
Hi Brad,
We won't be taking trade-ins -- HTM-200 "classics" can be upgraded... A pair will require 2 new SE tweeters, 4 new woofers, 2 crossovers. I haven't determined pricing on this but I will keep it reasonable. We prefer to do the upgrades here so that the new speaker can be properly tested and recertified. Having us perform the upgrade will re-establish the 5-year warranty from that point, since these would be 100% new parts and we have verified performance.
... Trying the "no-hype" method for the subtle release of this speaker, but these really do sound great. In my opinion, HTM-200 to HTM-200 SE is a larger performance improvement than the CBM-170 to CBM-170 SE, mainly due to switching woofer vendors and changing many woofer characteristics.
It was quite a coincidence that this thread was recently reopened. I started working on these new woofers a few days after the first post of this thread :)
azanon
10-12-2007, 08:03 PM
If you order a pair (simply order a pair of HTM-200, all we will be shipping now are HTM-200 SE) it will simply take us a bit longer to ship than usual. 3-5 days is my guess.
Is the same true for the center variant? I'd need a center one.
Let me know when you find out the new weight. The poor LCD can maybe take a 25% or so increase in weight, but if its doubled or something like that, that probably wont work.
curtis
10-12-2007, 08:09 PM
azanon, have you thought about distributing the weight of the speaker across the top of the speaker by using a board?
azanon
10-12-2007, 08:16 PM
azanon, have you thought about distributing the weight of the speaker across the top of the speaker by using a board?
I haven't, but I guess I'd have to do a bit of math to compare the extra weight of the board to the increased surface area of the TV supporting the extra weight because of the board. But I'm sure just overall total weight pressing down on the TV matters to, so adding a board ups the weight. I'd also have to be able to balance the board too and it might lower WAF!
Sadly, the TV i paid $2099 for about 1.5 years ago goes for $850 on ebay now, so my monetary risk is dropping very fast!
I hope this works because i'm 70/30 HT/music, so a center channel upgrade is huge for me. I also have some SACDs/DVD-A's. I tried the phantom center in the past and IMO, it just doesn't come close to having any kind of decent CC. I still have 340SE's L/R, but I'm sure I'll move up to Sierra-1's someday.
azanon
10-13-2007, 09:22 AM
Another question: Is the 200SE ported?
Yes, it is going to weigh more (the woofers and tweeter are heavier). The cabinet is exactly the same. I will try and get an exact weight by the end of the day.
???? :eek:
davef
10-13-2007, 11:45 AM
Sorry... last night was an early one for me (needed it) ;)
Each woofer weighs 6 tenths of a pound more -- the tweeter is 1/10 lb more.
A single 200SE weighs 1.3 pounds more than the original 200.
The speaker is not rear ported.. Sealed enclosure, absolutely no change to the cabinet.
azanon
10-13-2007, 12:01 PM
Sorry... last night was an early one for me (needed it) ;)
Each woofer weighs 6 tenths of a pound more -- the tweeter is 1/10 lb more.
A single 200SE weighs 1.3 pounds more than the original 200.
The speaker is not rear ported.. Sealed enclosure, absolutely no change to the cabinet.
So 16.25% increase in weight. The Sony can take it. :)
Sorry... last night was an early one for me (needed it) ;)
Each woofer weighs 6 tenths of a pound more -- the tweeter is 1/10 lb more.
A single 200SE weighs 1.3 pounds more than the original 200.
The speaker is not rear ported.. Sealed enclosure, absolutely no change to the cabinet.
Thanx Dave. I may be interested in sending my 200's in for the SE upgrade depending on what it would cost compared to a pair of new ones. Please let us know when you have the details on that.
mziegler
10-14-2007, 09:26 PM
I would also be interested in the upgrade.
Eddie Horton
10-15-2007, 06:36 AM
Wow, I don't know how I've missed this thread, but I think I've found the perfect surround speaker for the theater. Something small and not too deep is needed since the column size will be limited (the room is only 14 feet wide), and these look perfect. Thanks, Dave F!!!!!
Dave, any word on its output capabilities as compared to 170SE?
Is the sensitivity going to be the same as 200 classics?
Blue Dude
10-16-2007, 11:01 AM
Oh, I'm all over this upgrade. They're only a few months old (and only a month in service) but I would be happy to upgrade to blend with the Sierra fronts better and lower the crossover down to 80 Hz or so. That would be very nice.
If anyone is looking to buy new 200SE's instead of upgrading their old ones...I'm looking for a nice pair of classics:
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?p=25404#post25404
:)
davef
10-17-2007, 10:27 PM
Wow, I don't know how I've missed this thread, but I think I've found the perfect surround speaker for the theater. Something small and not too deep is needed since the column size will be limited (the room is only 14 feet wide), and these look perfect. Thanks, Dave F!!!!!
Most welcome Eddie!
Dave, any word on its output capabilities as compared to 170SE? Is the sensitivity going to be the same as 200 classics?
Overall output capability, assuming an 80Hz crossover, will be extremely close between the two. The 170SE still has an edge and is, of course, capable of deeper bass response and more warmth. Sensitivty of the 200SE remains the same as the original 200.
azanon
10-18-2007, 05:02 AM
I'll post some ameteur impressions after I've had a chance to hear the new one sing.
When I had to downgrade from a 340C to an 200 for my center (due to an LCD purchase), I was no longer excited about listening to the SACDs/DVD-As I have (except using the high bitrate 2 channel mode) or using Logic 7 anymore. When you have 340SE's L/R, its no contest, 2-channel is the way to go. So, hopefully, it'll be enough of an improvement for me to occasionally like Logic 7/multi-channel audio again.
I do use a VTF-2 for bass, with an 80hz crossover for the 200s.
azanon
10-22-2007, 12:08 PM
I'll post some ameteur impressions after I've had a chance to hear the new one sing.
This is going to be harder than I thought. I discovered that I had my Oppo 970 set wrong in the bass management (all speakers set to large instead of small), and that it matters on DVD-A's because the H/K doesnt bass manage when you use the analog "pass-throughs".
Solving that problem, I listened to a good majority of the Faith Hill Cry DVD-A. I'm just blown away by the sound quality, sitting in the sweet spot. Though I admit I haven't heard any REALLY expensive speakers, the thought I keep having with these Ascends is, "wow, that's just perfect". Aureal bliss really.
So, now, when I order any of these improved Ascend speakers, I just have to take Ascend at their word that these newer ones are even better. I'm afraid for an ameteur like me its just going to be perfect vs perfect. And on that note, I might need to start pretending my sound really isn't that great, especially in earshot of my wife, so that my words aren't used against me when I mention I might want Sierra's for Christmas!
The new HTM200SE C comes in tomorrow! I ordered 2 more DVD-A's so that I could hear it sing. I might end up having to turn all the other channels off to notice the difference.
azanon
10-23-2007, 05:43 PM
My long lost friend, Dolby Prologic II Music is back!
Wow that's a great sounding speaker, David. I've been listening to Josh Groban (Awake) on it for about 45 minutes now, primarily in DPLII Music, but also switching to L/R which are my 340SE's (so I can compare, as I did before I swapped in the new CC). I love to use Josh to test speakers because of his awesome, powerful voice and incredible vibrato.
The obvious impression to me was that the speaker was creating a larger soundstage and seems to have more body; its just fuller sounding than the non-SE. And if I get ANY improvement with breaking in, then wow! Of course I am using a VTF-2 with an 80hz crossover, so I do have that support for the deep bass frequencies.
That is a lot of awesome sound from such a small speaker with no rear port!
If anyone is looking to buy new 200SE's instead of upgrading their old ones...I'm looking for a nice pair of classics:
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?p=25404#post25404
:)
Just placed my order today for the 200SE's :D Can't wait to get them and replace my 200's (thanks Chas :D) I'll post a small review after having them awhile.
Can't wait to get them and replace my 200's (thanks Chas
Looking forward to your "old" 200's ... and finally trying 7.1 !
va_taper
10-28-2007, 11:36 PM
Same "SE" tweeter as CBM-170 SE and all new higher compliance "polygel" woofers with double the magnet strength. These new woofers took nearly a year to get just right, but they are fantastic. A full 20Hz drop in system Fo, resulting in deeper bass extension and MUCH better punch and dynamics. In fact, the impact and bass response is now very close to the "classic" CBM-170.
Good evening,
Do the new 4" woofers have the same phase plug design as the 170,340 models?
thanks,
Chris
davef
10-29-2007, 06:02 PM
Do the new 4" woofers have the same phase plug design as the 170,340 models?
Hi Chris,
The 4" woofers do not have phase plugs.
Take care!
Mike^S
10-29-2007, 08:20 PM
Hi Dave, I don't suppose you happen to have any pictures of the new 200SE? :D:D:D
davef
10-30-2007, 08:01 PM
Hi Dave, I don't suppose you happen to have any pictures of the new 200SE? :D:D:D
Hi Mike,
Not at this moment -- but coming very soon. :)
Well I received my 200SE's on Friday and have been listening to them stricktly in surround mode. They are fantastic!!! Definately an improvement when listening to DVD-A SACD material. The 200 was a great surround speaker to begin with and now, it is even better. I feel that crossing over at 80hz is perfect for this speaker now. Being that my room will not allow for 170SE as surrounds, I feel as if now with the 200SE's I am not missing out much if anything that the 170SE's would offer.
Dave, thanks for listening to your customers and giving us the 200SE :D
Now, I am looking forward to seeing the graphs and specs for this new speaker. Please tell me that you will post them soon......:o
davef
11-14-2007, 02:05 AM
As we plan for the formal release of the 200 SE, I thought I would post a few pictures of the new high performance 4" woofer. The heart of our products has always been the drivers, and the new 200 SE is no exception.
These new 4" woofers use much of the same advancements found in the incredible 5 1/4" woofer used in the Sierra-1. These include high compliance combined with low inductance, increased excursion and a low resonance frequency. The results are greatly improved dynamics and deeper bass extension, without sacrificing efficiency while keeping cabinet volume the same.
The cast aluminum frame is deeper to allow for greater excursion, the magnet assembly is considerably larger to create a stronger magnetic field which provides better damping of the cone and more accurate transient reproduction.
The now "classic" HTM-200 used a custom built audiophile grade 4" woofer -- the new HTM-200 SE woofer is a tremendous upgrade and I seriously doubt you will find a higher performing 4" woofer anywhere. For a 4” woofer, it is simply THAT good :)
Attached are pics of the new woofer and the new woofer compared to the HTM-200 classic woofer.
Enjoy!!
Mike^S
11-14-2007, 07:39 PM
Wow, very nice Dave. I bet those would make for a nice set of computer speakers. :D
millerwill
11-14-2007, 08:03 PM
Just today I sent off my 2 pair of HTM-200's to Ascend to be upgraded to these 200 SE's. They are the surrounds (rear and sides) that go with Sierra's as L/C/R. I really like lively surrounds for HT; I set mine up to ~ 80 dB with the L/C/R at 75. With football games, e.g., you get a truly emersive feeling of being in the stadium. So I'm looking forward to having the 200 SE's to go with the Sierra's up front!
I'm sorry if I've missed it somehow. How much would it be to upgrade HTM-200 to the HTM-200 SE? Deciding between upgrading, buy a new pair, or simply continue to enjoy my HTM-200 classics...
davef
11-21-2007, 12:18 AM
Hi Guys,
Production quantities of HTM-200 SE parts have finally arrived :D
Our site will be *slowly* updated with HTM-200 SE info, including new pictures and measurements. HTM-200 classics are now officially discontinued and anyone order these on the site will be sent HTM-200 SE.
Regarding upgrades:
The cost for upgrading HTM-200 classics to HTM-200 SE will be $70 per speaker ($140/pr) + return shipping costs. This includes new SE tweeters, woofers, crossovers -- complete testing and recertification. Warranty period will be reset as well, 5 years parts and labor from the date of the upgrade.
I have thoroughly tested the HTM-200 SE using an 80Hz crossover and I must say they work VERY well. These speakers are extremely versatile and the size/performance/cost ratio is simply unmatched.
Prices for the HTM-200 SE will remain the same as the classics at least through Jan 1, 2008.
Send us an email if you would like to take advantage of the upgrade.
Once again, these are now shipping (finally ;) )
Enjoy!!
BTT917
11-27-2007, 05:12 PM
When crossed-over at 80Hz, how do they compare to the 170's and 340's with the same high pass?
davef
12-02-2007, 02:51 PM
When crossed-over at 80Hz, how do they compare to the 170's and 340's with the same high pass?
They lack some of the midbass of the 170 and 340, but mids and highs are nearly identical.... I really enjoy listening to these :)
S_rangeBrew
12-04-2007, 12:29 PM
Those woofers are very high-end looking compared to the ones on my "Classics". I feel bad about hiding my 340SEs behind the grills, and I would feel the same way with these.
$70 is a great value for the upgrade. I'm just using mine for surround duty, so it's probably not worth it for me.
BradJudy
12-04-2007, 01:12 PM
I'm still debating if I want to get mine upgraded. They aren't in use at the moment, but I just picked up a Trends amp, so I might bring them back into the office. It would be neat to do it, but I'm not sure if it's worthwhile for the minimal use they get at the office.
Be nice to see what changed here in moving to SE:
Old specs:???
Typical In-Room Frequency Response 74Hz - 20kHz +/- 3dB
In-Room Sensitivity 89dB @ 1 watt / 1 meter
Frequency Response (Anechoic) 80Hz - 20kHz +/- 3dB
Sensitivity (Anechoic) 87dB @ 1 watt/ 1 meter
Average Impedance 8 ohms
Minimum Recommended Power 25 watts
Maximum Continuous Power* 200 watts
Maximum Short Term Peak Power* 400 watts
Or has this been updated? I just ordered 5, can't wait to try them on my new Onkyo 805!
Tom
Be nice to see what changed here in moving to SE:
Old specs:???
Typical In-Room Frequency Response 74Hz - 20kHz +/- 3dB
In-Room Sensitivity 89dB @ 1 watt / 1 meter
Frequency Response (Anechoic) 80Hz - 20kHz +/- 3dB
Sensitivity (Anechoic) 87dB @ 1 watt/ 1 meter
Average Impedance 8 ohms
Minimum Recommended Power 25 watts
Maximum Continuous Power* 200 watts
Maximum Short Term Peak Power* 400 watts
Or has this been updated? I just ordered 5, can't wait to try them on my new Onkyo 805!
Tom
I am looking forward to Dave F's new numbers on the 200SE when he posts them, Dave? :D
I had sent Dave an email asking how the 200SE's compared to the Aperion 632's - the other line I was considering (I did buy the 200's). His response:
"The 632 is about 4 times the size of the HTM-200 SE... this would not be a fair comparison, apples to oranges. The 632 is considerably larger than even our Sierra-1..."
I agree the 632 is larger, but I was mainly asking with the 200's used with a sub, X-over at 80 hz., how do they compare above that? I was also comparing in price range, 632's being only slightly higher. I was hoping he'd reply that it's like comparing Gold and Silver (Gold being the 200SE's). I should be receiving the 200's in a day or two, I'll probably be very happy as everyone else here seems to be... hopefully Dave will give the $60 sale price to speakers bought this week, that'll pay for the $58 freight (which I've always felt should be included when trying an on-line speaker).
curtis
12-07-2007, 10:37 AM
I compared the 632 to the "classic" CMT-340 a ways back.
At the time, the 632 had more bass, mostly do to some emphasis in the 50hz area. The mids and highs were cleaner and more detailed on the 340 IMO.
Why would you want to compare the 200 and 632? Size wise, the I think the 170SE is a tad smaller than the 632. Cost wise, the CMT-340SE is less expensive than the 632. The $299 price listed for the 632 is per speaker...not per pair.
It is one of those things you can ask for opnions on, but should really be experienced to understand.
davef
12-07-2007, 11:36 AM
I agree the 632 is larger, but I was mainly asking with the 200's used with a sub, X-over at 80 hz., how do they compare above that? I was also comparing in price range, 632's being only slightly higher.
Actually, the 632s are more than double the price of our 200 SE. I think you might have mistaken Aperion's pricing. $299 is per speaker, not per pair. Still, I am not comfortable commenting on the performance of competing products other than stating the obvious, the 632 will definitely have deeper bass than our HTM-200 SE. I will say this, retail loudspeakers that use SEAS tweeters typically start at about $800/pr. Here is a loudspeaker that uses an incredible fully custom built SEAS tweeter (to our specs) that sells for less than $300/pr --- never been done before :p Our profit margin on the 200 SE is, shall I say, ridiculously low --- to the point that with the current special + package price discounting, I am not yet sure if we will actually see any profit on these. :o
No profit... that's great marketing! If these sound like I think they will, and are raved about "everywhere", hopefully you'll raise the price in January to a profitable "norm" and sell a million of them!
Didn't mean to put you on the spot on the Aperions, and yes, I thought $299 a pair, my bad. Sure is difficult selecting speakers on line with every owner of each brand raving about "their baby". I figured manufacturers (like you) would have tested many brands just to compare... just looking for knowledgeable opinions. You'll get mine soon! (yet I am NO audiophile, and not too knowledgeable). Had a hard time selecting Ascend "first" because of shipping, but I believe I made the right choice. Thanks for the input!
Grasschopper
12-10-2007, 10:40 AM
For those that are interested I posted a photo of my recently delivered HTM-200SEs in the "Ascend SE Owners Thread" over at AVS forums. Files are too large to post them here and I don't have them hosted so go here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12449531#post12449531) to see a grill on/grill off photo of the HTM-200SE.
davef
12-10-2007, 04:38 PM
I figured manufacturers (like you) would have tested many brands just to compare... just looking for knowledgeable opinions....Thanks for the input!
Hi Tcat,
Yes, of course I have listened / compared / measured many (hundreds?) of different loudspeakers in my experience. However, as I mentioned, I do not feel that it is professional of me to comment on the performance of competing products. Would it help if I say the HTM-200 SE is better than any other speaker I have ever heard at this size / price-point? :p
Take care!
davef
12-10-2007, 04:40 PM
I am looking forward to Dave F's new numbers on the 200SE when he posts them, Dave? :D
Updated specifications and measurements now posted on the site. We will continue to update the site daily... We are swamped right now so I apologize for all the delays...
Looks good Dave! Thanx! Lovin my 200SE's!!!!!!!!
Specs look great! Got my 200 SE's yesterday, not much testing yet, I'm warming up top them. At first I thought they sounded no better than the Paradigm Cinema 90's I have (which they are replacing). Watched some TV, parts of a movie (Twister), and some music. Then I rewired the Paradigms, listened to the same stuff and thought there was very little difference; then rewired the 200SE's and began noticing a lot more mid/highs in music, and a lot more depth to sound effects (especially tornados!). The 200's for surrounds are FAR better than the Paradigm 70's I had for surround.
I was hoping for a much better improvement in TV watching sound (dialog in particular). The 200SE center really doesn't do much better than the Paradigm 110C. When I "A-B" from TV speakers to AVR 200SE's, on most channels the TV speakers sound better than either the Paradigm or 200's (50PX600U speakers are very good); I do believe the 200 center sounds a bit better than the 110C. What sounds best is TV speakers and 5.1 at the same time (as long as there is no sync problem, which is another story). I was hoping for the "deep/mellow" sound of the TV speakers (or my car speakers for that matter), and it's just not there.
I'll do a lot more listening and playing with my new Onkyo 805 settings before deciding if I need a better center. Do the 200's sound better broken in? What's the best way to break them in (that won't drive the wife mad)?
Updated specifications and measurements now posted on the site. We will continue to update the site daily... We are swamped right now so I apologize for all the delays...
davef
12-11-2007, 11:30 AM
I was hoping for the "deep/mellow" sound of the TV speakers (or my car speakers for that matter), and it's just not there.
I really don't think you are going to get that "sound" that you are after from any center speaker, at least from our products or Paradigm -- these products are designed for a neutral / accurate response. It sounds like you might prefer something with rolled-off highs (like TV speakers) and/or accentuated mid-bass. In addition, it is my understanding that you are also running Audigy through your Onkyo -- which, theoretically, makes the in-room response of the speakers even flatter, thus making it, perhaps, even less appealing to your tastes... You might try running without the Audigy EQ just for fun.
In addition, you really shouldn't compare your TV speakers (which are stereo)... to a 5.1 center which is monaural. While they might sound better to you (probably because they are playing the source in stereo and have rolled off highs) it is an incorrect interpretation of a modern 5.1 soundtrack (image specificity will be incorrect if you are anywhere but directly on-axis). The goal is accurate reproduction of the source material with high-quality 5.1 systems. This type of sound, simply stated, might not be something you prefer...
Don't get me wrong, the sound is great on 5.1 DVD's, the main use for my "HT". I don't listen to much music, so DVD's is my main 5.1 media. I was looking/hoping for a better sound for HDTV and SDTV, but it's not a deal breaker, since my TV speakers are very good. I would think that 2 fronts and a center "should" sound better than TV speakers, even watching the weather channel (not that I'd bother to turn on the AVR for that).
You may be right, I don't really like crispy highs unless I'm listening to music, but I do like tight deep bass without a hollow sound. You'd be surprized how good the Panasonic TV speakers are. I do need to upgrade my PDR-8 sub to something more SUBstantial for a 20' x 40' x 12' space (listening ares is 20' x 20' x 12' area of that space). I'm sure 90% of the problem is acoustics of the room. There's still a lot I need to try on the AVR. I have tried Audyssey on and off and really doesn't sound much different.
If I didn't have lipsync issues with the AVR, I'd run both 5.1 and TV speakers, that creates a "perfect" soundstage (IMO), makes the dialog sound great and doesn't effect the great sound from the surrounds. I've only "played" for an hour or two, I just stated my initial impressions. The speakers are solid, finished well, and sound great for DVDs and music; I just need to work out HDTV bugs (or just leave them off for TV watching!)
After rerunning Audyssey and moving the speakers a little, I must say the 200SE's are awesome! Audyssey set them at 80 or 70 hz., I reset the fronts at full range (so I could set double bass on the AVR), and the other to 80hz. After a couple weeks with my new Onkyo 805, it blows away my old Panny XR57, lots more listening modes that all sound better. Bass response for such a small speaker is amazing, I hear deep base from the subwoofer AND the 200SE's! I have them set-up in a 20'x20' portion of a 20'x40' area, and they fill the listening area great. I never used this area for music, but now CD's and FM are played almost daily.
Thanks to all for the positive 200SE comments (that swayed me this way), and to Dave for the great discount, and continuing effort to make a top rated product!
warlord260
12-20-2007, 10:11 AM
my htm 200s are set to 100hz, my 340se mains at 60hz 340se center at 80hz. if my subs are crossed to 80hz,wouldnt i be losing something on the surrounds if they are set to 100? if i upgraded to the 200se, would i be able to cross them at 80hz? if i was losing something between 100hz, and 80hz with the htm 200, would it be worth to get the upgrade to the 200se? could someone please explain this to me?
I have 200SE's and an 80hz X-Over works quite well for me. I had 200's (non-SE) and use to cross them at 100hz
davef
12-27-2007, 02:17 AM
my htm 200s are set to 100hz, my 340se mains at 60hz 340se center at 80hz. if my subs are crossed to 80hz,wouldnt i be losing something on the surrounds if they are set to 100? if i upgraded to the 200se, would i be able to cross them at 80hz? if i was losing something between 100hz, and 80hz with the htm 200, would it be worth to get the upgrade to the 200se? could someone please explain this to me?
As posted on AVS Forum:
Hi Warlord, I sincerely apologize for the delay in addressing your questions…
The new woofers for the 200 SE allow for a lower “Q” value, nearly a perfect .707 compared to the HTM-200 classic which has a system Q of approximately 1. This change in Q allows improved bass extension, a flatter response and more accurate transient reproduction at the expense of sacrificing a bit of warmth due to the bump in 150Hz range found in the 200 classics. That bump was due to the cabinet volume being slightly less than optimal for the woofers. The new SE woofers make good use of some advancements we developed in the past few years that allowed us to precisely optimize the woofer for the small cabinet volume as found in the HTM-200, without sacrificing efficiency.
As you can see by the attached graph, the 200 SE has about 3dB more output at 80Hz and nearly 6dB more at 30Hz. The bass roll-off of the 200 SE is shallower and will, without any doubt, provide a much more natural blend with a subwoofer. 80Hz crossover is recommended.
This can definitely benefit you… With everything crossed at 80Hz, you won't be missing anything when using the 200 SE.
Hope this helps!
HickoryNCeer
01-06-2008, 07:58 PM
Has anyone ever used the HTM-200s or SE's as in-ceiling speaders? I have a 23x33 basement great room with a theatre portion that is 23 x 14 and the remainder being a rec-room. The rears are currently BIC HT-8C and being nice...they just aren't giving me the sound that I'm looking for. The rears are 14 feet from the front wall and 3 feet from the sides. I have a drop ceiling with about 2 feet clearance to the floor joists. I can't do them side mount because the left side of my theatre opens up into a bar/kitchen. Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current Set up.
Mains - 340SE
Center - 340SE
Surrounds - BIC HT-8C
SW - BIC H-100 (eD - A5-350 on order, due end of January)
Receiver - Yamaha RXV-2700
DVD - Some crappy Sony 5 disc changer.
TV - Sony KDS-R60XBR2
My pair of 200SE's arrived today, and despite the best efforts of team brown they managed to come out of the box in good condition:
http://swbg1.tripod.com/200se_box.jpg
http://swbg1.tripod.com/200se_front.jpg
curtis
01-08-2008, 11:05 AM
My pair of 200SE's arrived today, and despite the best efforts of team brown they managed to come out of the box in good condition:
Wow...team brown tried pretty hard.
So? How do they sound?
curtis
01-08-2008, 11:10 AM
Has anyone ever used the HTM-200s or SE's as in-ceiling speaders? I have a 23x33 basement great room with a theatre portion that is 23 x 14 and the remainder being a rec-room. The rears are currently BIC HT-8C and being nice...they just aren't giving me the sound that I'm looking for. The rears are 14 feet from the front wall and 3 feet from the sides. I have a drop ceiling with about 2 feet clearance to the floor joists. I can't do them side mount because the left side of my theatre opens up into a bar/kitchen. Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.
So you would cut holes in the drop ceiling and place the 200SE's into them? Could you hang them for the ceiling?
I am guessing it would work fine, but I would call Ascend to discuss.
Wow...team brown tried pretty hard.
So? How do they sound?
Yeah, do tell! What are you gonna be doin with the "classics" you bought from me?
What are you gonna be doin with the "classics" you bought from me?
They will be moved back as rear surrounds whenever I figure out where to hang them and how to run the wire.:)
So? How do they sound?
I'm only using them as surrounds, but first impression is greater clarity than the classic 200. Definitely seems better matched with the 340SE fronts.
HickoryNCeer
01-08-2008, 07:16 PM
Thanks Curtis. Yes...I was thinking of cutting the drop ceiling and kind of fitting them flush aiming strait down. Maybe putting some molding of some kind around them. Due to the height of the ceiling 7'10 and the position of the speakers being in a walking area...I really don't know if I could hang them down. Maybe I could drop the back down an inch or two out of the ceiling and angle them toward the viewing area.
I will try to call the Sales / Support line tomorrow.
Thanks for the response.
I'm only using them as surrounds, but first impression is greater clarity than the classic 200. Definitely seems better matched with the 340SE fronts.
Bass is noticably a bit punchier too.
TrueBlueKew
01-23-2008, 12:21 AM
Any chance that we will ever see a piano black finish on the 200SE to go with all the piano black tv's out there, even if only in limited production? The Sierra 1's are beautiful, but due to lack of space my front speakers need to mount right up against the wall (no room for the port).
Thanks,
Brian
davef
01-24-2008, 10:15 PM
Hi TrueBlueKew,
Any chance that we will ever see a piano black finish on the 200SE to go with all the piano black tv's out there, even if only in limited production? The Sierra 1's are beautiful, but due to lack of space my front speakers need to mount right up against the wall (no room for the port).
I doubt we will ever introduce a piano black HTM-200 SE. There is very little demand for this and the retail price would increase dramatically -- at least $180 + per pair and at this price point, I suspect there would be even less interest.
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