Happy Holidays!!

[davef]

Wishing all of you and your families a wonderful Holiday... :D

And for those interested... I will be posting some "SE" measurements later this evening....

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah!

[bikeman]

Wishing all of you and your families a wonderful Holiday... :D

And for those interested... I will be posting some "SE" measurements later this evening....
Thanks for the offer Dave but I don't think anyone is interested. :rolleyes: Happy Holiday everyone. Hope Santa is good to all of you.

David

[davef]

Thanks for the offer Dave but I don't think anyone is interested. :rolleyes: David

Darn... And to think we spent a week clearing up floor space in the warehouse so I could take ground plane measurements with a time window of slightly better than 20ms (accurate LF information to about 50Hz)... It was a LOT of work and James is gonna be pissed, bikeman :p

Measurements look great BTW.. just have to do some screen captures and graphics conversion and compression..

Why am I still at the office eating holiday treats? OK.. really need to go home now...

Best to you all!

[curtis]

Dave, the traffic going north on the 405 did not look as bad as going south.

Forget what Bikeman says.....we'd appreciate the measurements. :)

Happy Holidays everyone...and thanks for making the Ascend forum what it is.

[Asliang]

Can't wait to see them.

It's for both SE models hopefully : )

[GaryB]

Hi, David. Being the technically-oriented type that I am (as you well know... ;)) I'm another who would love to see those measurements. And if you and/or James get a chance in the near future, I'm quite sure that directly-comparable measurements of the HTM-200, made under the same conditions, would be of great interest to many of us.

All the best to you and yours, and to all forum members!

[JeffD2]

Happy Holidays to you Dave,

I HAD to work late today with a crashed RAID array. :( , I feel your pain.

To all, best wishes and enjoy the 3 day holiday weekend!

Jeff

[BradJudy]

Darn... And to think we spent a week clearing up floor space in the warehouse so I could take ground plane measurements with a time window of slightly better than 20ms (accurate LF information to about 50Hz)... It was a LOT of work and James is gonna be pissed, bikeman :p


The work isn't lost on us. I know how much of a pain it must have been to get clean measurements out to 20ms - that's a lot of free space.

Now get back to your family and have a great holiday weekend.

[Asliang]

Hope to see these measurements soon for an early X-mas gift!

:D

[Quinn]

Tease!

[bikeman]

Thanks for the offer Dave but I don't think anyone is interested. :rolleyes:

Hey, I was only kidden. You can post those measurements any time now. :D

David

[merrymaid520]

Merry Christmas to Dave F. and everyone else. At least the SE measurements might tide some of us over that are on the waiting list until mid-January:) With the new 340's being able to be run full range, is it still better practice to run them set as small if you have a good dedicated sub so the mains can concentrate more on the mids & highs rather than the LFE. That is the way I have the current 340's setup, but the new SE's offer more bass so thats why I ask. (if anything run them as small for movies and maybe large for music?)


Anyway,
Happy Holidays

Brandon

[curtis]

Hey, I was only kidden. You can post those measurements any time now. :D

I'm blaming this delay on you bikeman.....now it looks like I have to go to my relative's for Christmas Eve without seeing the graphs! :D

[davef]

Sorry guys...

Wouldn't you know it... I took the data files home with me (Friday) on a floppy disk.. yes, a floppy disk (for those of you who even remember what those are). And, well, being the speaker guy that I am.. I probably placed the floppy to close to a loudspeaker and zap... no more data files :o

I picked up one of those Lexar USB jump drive thingys yesterday and now have the files *safely* stored (I think)...

Stay tuned... coming soon.. (I promise :) )

Hope all of you are having a wonderful holiday.

[davef]

With the new 340's being able to be run full range, is it still better practice to run them set as small if you have a good dedicated sub so the mains can concentrate more on the mids & highs rather than the LFE.

No matter what your main speakers are, if you are running a subwoofer you should be setting the speakers to "small".. It is best to avoid having overlapping frequency ranges being reproduced from different locations and different sources.

The 340 SE can better handle lower frequency energy with less compromise to the delicate mids than its predecessor... while at the same time reproducing more of this energy. However, if you are going to use a sub, it is best to high-pass the speakers regardless whether music or movies.

[shane55]

Ok Dave...

That all makes good sense. So... would-should-could one drop the x-over to 60hz instead of the standard 80hz? I would assume this would take advantage of the 340SE's ability to reproduce those frequencies with more accuracy and transience than the sub.

Misguided?

Thanks

shane

[FirstReflect]

Hello Dave F.! I anxiously await the SE measurements! I thought I'd ask you here though since I know you'll be returning to this thread:

Are there any plans to introduce the multi-polar surround speaker that was mentioned last year and then seemingly scrapped due to lack of interest?

I've been told that interest has increased this past fall and I'd certainly like to voice my own strong personal interest in a diffuse surround speaker from Ascend!

Thanks for any info...I'm basically just trying to decide whether to get 7 CBM-170SE's or just get 5 for now and wait for the diffuse speaker if it's coming out in the next year or so :)

Thanks again!

Jon

[davef]

Hi Jon,

Happy Holidays!


Are there any plans to introduce the multi-polar surround speaker that was mentioned last year and then seemingly scrapped due to lack of interest?

I've been told that interest has increased this past fall and I'd certainly like to voice my own strong personal interest in a diffuse surround speaker from Ascend!

To be perfectly honest, this project is completely on hold... We used to receive perhaps 1-2 inquiries per day regarding a multi-polar surround speaker, enough for me to start the planning phase.. We are now receiving at least twice as many emails as then and we probably only receive 1-2 inquiries on this per week. It is a rather dramatic decline in interest which I believe is due in part to the popularity of Dolby Digital and DTS. Many consumers now want precise directionality in the surround channels, which is exactly what DD 5.1/7.1 and DTS is designed for. Much of that precise directionality is lost with multi-polar surrounds...

Believe me; if the interest was there I would be working on it... But as I have said for many, many years now, these types of surrounds do not deliver an accurate response. Diffused surrounds somewhat defeat the purpose of discrete surround channels.

If interest does increase, you can be sure my plans will resurface once again.

[FirstReflect]

It's too bad others haven't shown as much interest. Any chance you'd make a speaker just for me? :D

To be honest, in my own experience, I haven't liked di-pole surrounds all that much. As you say, they are too diffuse to create the directional sounds sometimes needed. But I have found bi-pole and quad-pole speakers very much to my liking.

In using monopole speakers, the enveloping diffuse sounds are too distinct and don't remind me of the sound in a movie theater. With a bi or especially a quad-pole speaker, I get a sound that is much closer to a movie theater. More diffuse than a mono-pole, but localizable enough that direct sounds aren't just a fuzz that's "over there somewhere".

I've come to really like the THX recommended setup with bi-pole (rather than di-pole) speakers on the side and mono-pole speakers close together at the back. I get the nice wide sound on the sides and the more direct sound right at the back.

I just wonder if maybe people who wrote before moved on to other brands in the mean time. They may still be out there and very interested in Ascend speakers, but just figure that you're not going to make them and have move on to another brand that offers diffuse surround speakers.

I genuinely think a bi or quad pole speaker would be a great and profitable addition to the Ascend speaker lineup. I also think that there are customers out there who have had some interest in Ascend, but turned to another brand when they found out that there were no dedicated surround speakers available.

Perhaps you could put some feelers out there. You've got good reviews all over the net and the SoundStage network and Audioreview in particular have given Ascend a great online name. I think if Ascend were to ask at various websites, you'd find a lot of interest in a dedicated surround speaker.

In any case, I'll certainly let you know of my personal interest and hope that it helps to convince you to put the diffuse speaker back into production! :)

Jon

[tjennings]

I agree with Dave on this one... it seems to be a step backwards to the days of Dolby Surround / 'mono' surround. Diffusing it defeats the purpose of directionality that came with DTS / DD. Perhaps you need a 6.1 or 7.1 receiver to give you more of the multi-surround / movie theater experience (sorry if I didn't read all of your posts regarding this and you already have one)?

Also, have you tried hi-rez multi-channel music? SACD / DVD-A is incredible sounding... and you definitely don't want a diffused surround sound for it. My quest is for the exact same speaker all the way around so the soundstage is completely seamless. That is what led me to Ascend in the first place... the ability to have five 340's (now SE's) around the room.

[FirstReflect]

I think it's important that consumers be given a choice. I can understand completely why some people prefer mono-pole speakers all around. But I am not one of those people. And I am also not the only person in the world who prefers a more diffuse speaker in the surround positions.

I have a Yamaha RXV2500 receiver and I have tried mono, bi and di-pole speakers in the surround positions. After much listening, I found that I prefered the bi-pole speakers. I've also been very impressed, even more so than the bi-poles, with the quad-pole speakers offered by Axiom.

My point in this is that I listened for myself and came to the conclusion that I prefered a multi-pole speaker, though I didn't care for the di-pole setup, which I found too diffuse.

I honestly believe that there are customers out there who considered Ascend, but decided to go with another brand because they came to the Ascend website and discovered that there were no dedicated multi-polar surround speakers available. I know this, because I was initially turned off of Ascend for this very reason. The lack of multi-polar speakers severely limits choice for those of us who prefer a multi-polar surround speaker. For those who prefer mono-poles, it's not like you won't be able to still use them if a multi-pole speaker exists. But for people like me who prefer a multi-pole, Ascend currently offers no option.

I just want Dave to be aware that he may be losing sales of entire systems, simply because people are looking for a complete speaker set from a single company that included multi-polar surround speakers! I'm positive that some people have come to the website, seen that there are no multi-polar surround speakers and moved on to another company without any more thought.

I was actually one of the people who wrote to Dave F. about a year and a half ago asking about diffuse surround speakers and the reply I got was that Ascend had no intention of making a bi, di or quad pole speaker. My response to that was "oh, that's too bad, I guess I need to find another brand of speakers" and until now, I've never written back about it. If others who wrote e-mails received the same response, it's no wonder the number of requests have dropped in the past year! Word has spread that Ascend does not intend to ever make muti-polar surrounds, so those of us who want multi-polar surrounds have just ignored Ascend altogether!

My interest in Ascend has returned because I am unable to find front speakers from any company that makes speakers in my price range that offer a completely seemless front soundstage. With every speaker set I've tried up front, the center speaker always sounds different than the front two and pans across the front are ruined when the timbre changes as the sound goes through the center speaker! I'm not positive that the Ascend speakers will be better, but I've heard so many good things that I want to at least give them a try. Right now, I'm not even using a center speaker because of this issue.

But I KNOW that I prefer a bi or quad-pole speaker in the surround positions. I've tried mono-pole, di-pole, bi-pole and quad-pole and I liked the quad-poles the best, followed closely by the bi-poles. If I have to find a bi or quad-pole from another company that closely timbre matches the Ascend front speakers, then so be it, I suppose. I just want Dave F. to know that I'd certainly prefer to have ALL my speakers use the same drivers and be timbre matched to one another by the same company. And I am certain that I am not the only person who prefers multi-polar surrounds.

If nothing else, Dave F. and Ascend could be selling me two more speakers! Two more speakers that, for now, I will have to buy from some other company!

Jon

[curtis]

Jon....very good post, and I understand your points clearly.

One thing I think you left out is the business decision. With the amount of time DaveF puts into developing his products, what kind of return could he expect if he indeed developed a dedicated surround? Would it be more beneficial to his business if he worked on somethingelse?

Yes, other companies, internet direct to be more specific, have dedicated surrounds that offer a diffused sound, but I also think it is pretty clear that their business model is at least a bit different.

[FirstReflect]

True enough, Curtis. I am sure I don't know all the workings of running this company...not even close :p And there is clearly more to introducing a new speaker than customer desire, such as mine. I just wanted to bring up a few of the points I made in my last reply though. I'm sure Dave F. has thought of them as well - he's a smart guy! But just in case, I thought I'd mention them anyway. Occassionally, even smart business people can be off in predicting the market or even in responding to their desires. The key thing that Dave . mentioned was that he's getting fewer e-mails asking about diffuse surrounds than he used to a couple of years ago. I just think that many of the people who wrote earlier got the same reply as me and walked away from Ascend and may also have informed others that there were no diffuse surround speakers in the works.

I could be totally off base...I'm no business expert :p But I think there's a good chance that Dave and Ascend are losing potential sales that they might never have even known about! Not everyone checks the message boards when they come to this site and there are a ton of people who have never even heard of Ascend! But when they do, a lot of them are going to be like me and prefer diffuse surround speakers. If they hear before-hand from someone who wrote an e-mail asking about them two years ago that there are no diffuse speakers, they may never even give Ascend a second thought!

I really believe there is a market for bi or quad-pole surrounds from Ascend. I don't think that direct e-mail requests is the only or best way to gauge customer interest. I'd like to see Dave put out some feeler surveys or just do an interview with one of the popular online review sites. Try and get a better sense of whether or not other people want diffuse surrounds. Relatively few people buy their speakers online - it's a growing market, but lots of people still want to see and hear them in a store first. The only people e-mailing are internet savvy people who have taken the time to research and find out about Ascend. To only go by their e-mail requests as an indication of interest seems like a very poor sampling of the public at large. I'd like to see Dave use the popular review websites - like the SoundStage network, Secrets, Audioreview, Audioholics and others to get a better idea of the market.

If it turns out that I'm alone in wanting diffuse surrounds from Ascend...then so be it! I know full well I may be wrong on this. But if direct e-mails are the only indication being used to gauge interest, I really think that isn't the best sample of the market.

Just my thoughts, but I hope, purely for my own sake, that Dave considers my suggestions :)

Jon

[curtis]

I am sure Ascend loses some sales because of not having difused surround. I just don't think it is many...or enough to warrant the R&D work. Just like the people that knock the Ascend finish.....doesn't seemed to have hurt them in the long run.

It is no secret that I think Ascend makes some of the best sounding speakers in their given price point....and to add a cliche, best sounding even at more expensive price points. What I would rather see Ascend do is offer a more upscale speaker, maybe floorstander....

I think that would bring Ascend more notice and business. So DaveF....get to work! :D

[KojiroTakenashi]

I think the reason there hasn't been a floorstander yet is thanks to the Aerogel material used in the bookshelves...same reason there is no Ascend Subwoofer.

Then again, though, there's always molecule c540...

[curtis]

Now it is Polygel. :)

[KojiroTakenashi]

Does it use c540? :D

[einsteinjb]

Jonathan, could you please clarify a bit? I mean, I'm not getting at all a clear vibe from you here. What I'm asking I guess is, do you prefer a bi-pole or quad-pole surround speaker to a monopole, and if so, do you think Ascend is missing potential sales due to not offering them? Cause based on your many previous posts on the subject, well it's just not at all clear. ;) :rolleyes:


I am sure Ascend loses some sales because of not having difused surround. I just don't think it is many...or enough to warrant the R&D work. Just like the people that knock the Ascend finish.....doesn't seemed to have hurt them in the long run.

It is no secret that I think Ascend makes some of the best sounding speakers in their given price point....and to add a cliche, best sounding even at more expensive price points. What I would rather see Ascend do is offer a more upscale speaker, maybe floorstander....

I think that would bring Ascend more notice and business. So DaveF....get to work! :D
Nicely put Curtis. I'll second that! I'm sure Jon's points are valid but I would certainly think if Dave only has time and resources to develop one major new product at a time, the next logical (and profitable) step would certainly be floorstanders rather than diffuse surrounds. Ooooo, a nice sexy pair of Ascend towers! How hot would that be! :eek: Well, that and some nicer finishes (at additional cost of course) for those who would love to have the Ascend sound in their homes but need something nicer to look at. Personally flat black is fine with me -- but in a couple years I'm definitely going to be in the market for some fine floorstanding beasts and I'd love to have the option of getting them from Ascend! :)

[curtis]

hmmm.....after thinking about it last night, and looking at the new specs/graph for the CMT-340SE, I think the floorstander need is almost covered with the 340SE and the custom stands......

[einsteinjb]

hmmm.....after thinking about it last night, and looking at the new specs/graph for the CMT-340SE, I think the floorstander need is almost covered with the 340SE and the custom stands......
I'm sure they're going to be amazing, but there's still always a market for a really nice set of true full-range tower speakers, preferably a 3-way design (take the Axiom M50, 60, and 80 for example). Those with especially large rooms will especially want them, or anyone wanting a 2.0 system for music with no room or desire for a sub. And of course those of us who just want BIG-ASS ASCEND SPEAKERS in our rooms, woohooooo! hehe.

[bikeman]

And of course those of us who just want BIG-ASS ASCEND SPEAKERS in our rooms, woohooooo! hehe.
I'll bet jb isn't married. Any takers? ;)

David

[einsteinjb]

I'll bet jb isn't married. Any takers? ;)

David
You'd win that bet. :D

[doc5]

Hi Newbie here,
Love this forum. I think I'm gonna be ordering 340 SE's but while reading this thread and some other discussions, I think I need a multi-pole speaker for my 5.1 surround. I don't think its going to stop me from ordering the 340's though. :)
I don't have a way to fire the surrounds accross my listening area.
Any rec's? I think I like the idea of the Axiom q8's.
Oh BTW, what is the difference between dipole and bipole?
doc

erm sorry to have sort of hijacked this thread. :) I guess I could post this on it's own thread. :rolleyes:

[Mag_Neato]

Hi Newbie here,
Love this forum. I think I'm gonna be ordering 340 SE's but while reading this thread and some other discussions, I think I need a multi-pole speaker for my 5.1 surround. I don't think its going to stop me from ordering the 340's though. :)
I don't have a way to fire the surrounds accross my listening area.
Any rec's? I think I like the idea of the Axiom q8's.
Oh BTW, what is the difference between dipole and bipole?
doc

erm sorry to have sort of hijacked this thread. :) I guess I could post this on it's own thread. :rolleyes:

Dipole means the two sets of drivers, wired out of phase, firing in opposite directions giving it a very diffuse sound. being out of phase generally cancels out most of the bass response.

Bipole means there are two sets of drivers, wired in phase, firing in opposite directions to give a "bigger" sound. The QS-8's are wired in phase and are quad-polar, meaning they fire in four seperate directions.