Ascends 340s and paradigm studio 40s

[jbhungvt]

Hello All,
I'm in the process of selecting speakers and I'm pretty much down to either paradigm studio 40s setup I can buy locally here or Ascends 340s.

I have heard Ascends 340s and studio 40s at separate times with different setup and electronics. Since I last heard the studio 40s, I think the studio 40s are a little better.

Has anyone compared studio 40s with 340s in direct comparison and which they like more?

Please, no comments such as order/buy both and return one etc, only you can decide, etc.
thanks,

[curtis]

Did you read Steve Callas' huge thread on AVS? He compared the 340 and Studio 4 directly in the same room with same equipment and prefered the 340's.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=591331

It is a huge thread...but good reading.

I have compared the Studio 60s to the 340s and thought the 340's had better mids and highs....mids are no contest IMO.

[Mag_Neato]

If anything, I'd wait for the SE's to come out before making any decision. Most 340 owners have probably not had the opportunity to compare these speakers directly, and certainly no one has heard the SE version yet.

What characteristic of the sound of the Paradigms did you feel was better?

[jbhungvt]

Did you read Steve Callas' huge thread on AVS? He compared the 340 and Studio 4 directly in the same room with same equipment and prefered the 340's.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=591331

It is a huge thread...but good reading.

I have compared the Studio 60s to the 340s and thought the 340's had better mids and highs....mids are no contest IMO.
Yes, you're right about the studio 60s, I heard the 60s and thought it had more bass feel and hit harder. I think the sub can do that, so your opinion helps me in this regard.
Have you also compared the studio CC470 with the Ascend 340C? I didn't get to listen to the CC470 while i was there yesterday b/c they didn't have that setup.
What I'm concerned most is the clear dialogue when watching movies so I do'nt have to turn on the subtitle or volume.

thanks

[jbhungvt]

If anything, I'd wait for the SE's to come out before making any decision. Most 340 owners have probably not had the opportunity to compare these speakers directly, and certainly no one has heard the SE version yet.

What characteristic of the sound of the Paradigms did you feel was better?
I listened to the 340 and studio 40s at different times (couple months apart), so it's not really fair to compare. 340 i listened to was powered by NAD receiver (don't remember model, but older model). The studio 40s i listened to is powered by 2-channels stereo sunfire 300watts/channel.

Here i thought the studios had better soundstage. I thought the center channel was on but it's not. I didn't get that feeling with the 340m.

[darkhorror]

I haven't listened to the 340, but the problem in sound stage was most likely due to room or setup. In a good room setup correctly most speakers can give you that same feeling. Where you are sure the center channel is on when it isn't. Room acoustics plays a very large roll in this, as reflections play havoc with imaging.

[Mag_Neato]

I know you don't want to hear this, but........

you need to do an A/B comparison, side by side, same equipment/acoustics or you are only guessing. The differences between two or more different speakers are virtually impossible to retain in our acoustic memory. That is the reason for the in-home trial.....your room, your electronics.

Oh, and the speakers should be level-matched when comparing as louder is usually perceived as better.

[bikeman]

you need to do an A/B comparison, side by side, same equipment/acoustics or you are only guessing.
Right as usual, Mag. I had the opportunity to audition both the 340M's and Studio 40's in my home before I made my decesion. It's been awhile so I'll try to stick to what I'm sure I remember.
The 40's went lower for sure. I had a bit of a preference for the 340's in the mids and highs but I would have been happy with either choice. They were both very good. Both my wife (Her opinion was much more important in this than mine) and I liked the looks of the 340's better. Black just went so much better with our red oak mission funiture.
Payment came strickly from me (my opinion was much more important :D) and the price difference was substantial even with a discount from the Paradigm dealer.
The Studio's did not have a better sound stage than the 340's. I can't recall preferring one over the other but the 340's are excellent in this regard.
As to the question of the 340C's ability to handle dialog. I'm your best source of info on this one. I have a hearing deficiency centered around 1khz. That's roughly the mid-point of the human voice. The 340C is the best I've heard anywhere near this price point. I have heard good center speakers that cost lots more but I am thirlled with the 340's ability to handle dialog.
I did not audition the 470 or any other Paradigm center so no comment on that.
Keep us up to date on how your search develops.

David

[jbhungvt]

Right as usual, Mag. I had the opportunity to audition both the 340M's and Studio 40's in my home before I made my decesion. It's been awhile so I'll try to stick to what I'm sure I remember.
The 40's went lower for sure. I had a bit of a preference for the 340's in the mids and highs but I would have been happy with either choice. They were both very good. Both my wife (Her opinion was much more important in this than mine) and I liked the looks of the 340's better. Black just went so much better with our red oak mission funiture.
Payment came strickly from me (my opinion was much more important :D) and the price difference was substantial even with a discount from the Paradigm dealer.
The Studio's did not have a better sound stage than the 340's. I can't recall preferring one over the other but the 340's are excellent in this regard.
As to the question of the 340C's ability to handle dialog. I'm your best source of info on this one. I have a hearing deficiency centered around 1khz. That's roughly the mid-point of the human voice. The 340C is the best I've heard anywhere near this price point. I have heard good center speakers that cost lots more but I am thirlled with the 340's ability to handle dialog.
I did not audition the 470 or any other Paradigm center so no comment on that.
Keep us up to date on how your search develops.

David
thanks David for your input on this one. I hear a lot of "it's the best center I've ever heard" comment. If I go to av123 forum, they say their rsc200 center is the best center they've ever heard. If I go to ACI forum, they say their Essence V center channel is the best center ever.
So in price comparison, Essence V costs $900, RSC200 costs $600, and Ascend Center is around $300. Not really fair to compare against others.
Do you think the Ascend center stack up well against the RSC200 from av123?

[jbhungvt]

I haven't listened to the 340, but the problem in sound stage was most likely due to room or setup. In a good room setup correctly most speakers can give you that same feeling. Where you are sure the center channel is on when it isn't. Room acoustics plays a very large roll in this, as reflections play havoc with imaging.
there were no room treatment setup, it's not in a room, it's out in the open.

[jbhungvt]

I know you don't want to hear this, but........

you need to do an A/B comparison, side by side, same equipment/acoustics or you are only guessing. The differences between two or more different speakers are virtually impossible to retain in our acoustic memory. That is the reason for the in-home trial.....your room, your electronics.

Oh, and the speakers should be level-matched when comparing as louder is usually perceived as better.
I know about this, the guy at audiobuys local to my area won't let me do in home trials with his speakers.
I agree with level matched speakers for comparison. I don't think i'm being fair to ascend in this regards. the total package i was quoted from paradigm dealer here for 7 speakers (studio 40mains, cc470, studio 20s rears, adp 470 surrounds) for $3K after tax. The ascend package will run me around $1600. It's almost half the studio setup.

[curtis]

Do you think the Ascend center stack up well against the RSC200 from av123?
Yes...and I have heard them in the same room with the same equipment. Crossed at 80hz, or even 60hz....the extra extension advantage the RSC200 has becomes insiginificant.

With the 340c...if you get 340m's....you have matched soundstage. All of Ascend's speakers are well timbre matched. At AV123, some of their main speakers have fairly different timbre characteristics, but they only have the one RSC200.

[curtis]

there were no room treatment setup, it's not in a room, it's out in the open.
Different rooms and different setups always have an effect on the sound....no matter if you have room treatments or not.

[curtis]

I know about this, the guy at audiobuys local to my area won't let me do in home trials with his speakers.
I agree with level matched speakers for comparison. I don't think i'm being fair to ascend in this regards. the total package i was quoted from paradigm dealer here for 7 speakers (studio 40mains, cc470, studio 20s rears, adp 470 surrounds) for $3K after tax. The ascend package will run me around $1600. It's almost half the studio setup.
If you are including a sub in the comparison of both systems, I say the Ascend setup can easily compare and take on the Paradigm package.

[jbhungvt]

If you are including a sub in the comparison of both systems, I say the Ascend setup can easily compare and take on the Paradigm package.

My room will be 25'x16'x9'. Do you think the Ascend can fill the room? I'm looking for the following,
Ascend when the new version comes out 340m, 340c, HTM for surrounds, 170 for rears. I'm on the pre-order list for the HSU-VTF3-HO. I want to get the 170 for surrounds, but that won't fit in the column, i,e, the column will be too deep for the surrounds. Wish Ascend makes dipoles here.

Right now, I have the money to afford even the av123 package (the ref3), or the ACI (essence system). One of the primary reason I'm considering the Ascend is their "value". What I'm afraid of is, the law of diminsihing return. I don't want to over spend if not needed. I'm going to audition the Essence Center tomorrow.

I've heard of the 340m in one instance and studio 40 in another, and quite frankly I listened at different times, place and electronics, so it's no fair comparison. I do like the 340m for the money, that's for sure.

[jbhungvt]

Yes...and I have heard them in the same room with the same equipment. Crossed at 80hz, or even 60hz....the extra extension advantage the RSC200 has becomes insiginificant.

With the 340c...if you get 340m's....you have matched soundstage. All of Ascend's speakers are well timbre matched. At AV123, some of their main speakers have fairly different timbre characteristics, but they only have the one RSC200.
Great!!, good to know. Maybe the new 340c will have lower extension :) .
What you say is true about the timbre matching and that's very important. That's one of the reason i didn't go with av123. the other reason is because their dipoles are too wide to fit in my side columns :D

[Lou-the-dog]

Here i thought the studios had better soundstage. I thought the center channel was on but it's not. I didn't get that feeling with the 340m.

As others have posted here, this HAS to be due to room settup. My 340 mains throws a wonderful stereo image. To this very day I still have to double check my reciever to make sure that I am only listening to 2 channel stereo. Good luck on your search!

Randy

[Lou-the-dog]

My room will be 25'x16'x9'. Do you think the Ascend can fill the room? .

No problem at all!

Randy

[SteveCallas]

I compared the two and preferred the 340s. When listening to studios on their own, they sound really good, but when compared to better speakers, the studios sound boxy and a bit muffled - not as real or natural. The only theory I have on why that is is because they are front ported, but that is just a guess. I can see if you prefer the soundstage and extension of the studios, but I can't agree that the studios have better imaging - the 340s really excel at imaging.

Unless aesthetics are a top priority, I'd go with the 340s, as they put out a better sound. BUT - here it comes - you should compare them both at the same time. Who is to say my tastes are the same as yours?

[jbhungvt]

I compared the two and preferred the 340s. When listening to studios on their own, they sound really good, but when compared to better speakers, the studios sound boxy and a bit muffled - not as real or natural. The only theory I have on why that is is because they are front ported, but that is just a guess. I can see if you prefer the soundstage and extension of the studios, but I can't agree that the studios have better imaging - the 340s really excel at imaging.

Unless aesthetics are a top priority, I'd go with the 340s, as they put out a better sound. BUT - here it comes - you should compare them both at the same time. Who is to say my tastes are the same as yours?

Aesthetics are not my priority, all speakers will be hidden inside columns/false wall. I'll definitely order the LCR of the new ascend line up and demo 30days period.

as an aside, i went through most of your ascend funny story thread today and found that you didnt' compare 340s and studios 40s at the same time either?

After I finished reading your thread, I ran out right after work and went to my local audio shop and found they had the Boston VR3 for $999/pair on sale. I listened to it, while I like it, I didn't care much for the highs. So I guess my taste is a bit different from yours.

Oh, I didn't say the studio had better imaging than the ascends. I say they're about even. But for the money, the 340 is a better bet.

[SteveCallas]

as an aside, i went through most of your ascend funny story thread today and found that you didnt' compare 340s and studios 40s at the same time either?
You are correct, never a direct A/B between those two. To be honest, the 40s got beaten so badly by the VR3s that I didn't have much interest in them at all after that. The 340s held up much better to the VR3s and definitely did not sound boxy, so in that respect, I'd easily take the 340s over the 40s.


After I finished reading your thread, I ran out right after work and went to my local audio shop and found they had the Boston VR3 for $999/pair on sale. I listened to it, while I like it, I didn't care much for the highs. So I guess my taste is a bit different from yours.
That helps to strengthen the notion that if one is serious in getting speakers they will like best, they need to audition. My dealer is matching Magnolia's $999 price as well - I should have them next week :D